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Post by jdubs on Jan 17, 2021 10:20:47 GMT -5
I have no doubt that these get hot and cooling is required. However, these companies sell heat sinks, fans, passive cooling aluminum cases, and tout that RPi4 has built in heat sinks on the core chip.
So my question is, how much is really needed? Especially in light duty as a streamer or endpoint.
My thought is that one additional method would suffice, but my experience in this realm is limited.
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Post by Ex_Vintage on Jan 17, 2021 22:11:01 GMT -5
Hard to tell what you are referencing. Cooler is always better for longer life of electronics. It all depends on what "hot" is.
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Post by jdubs on Jan 18, 2021 7:46:27 GMT -5
Hard to tell what you are referencing. Cooler is always better for longer life of electronics. It all depends on what "hot" is. “I’m always talking about whatever we’re talking about.” Adam Carolla Since this is the Raspberry Pi specific forum, that is what I was referencing. Specifically Raspberry Pi 4 (RPI 4). I did find multiple cases that included both heat sinks and fans, so that is a pretty cost effective way to do it and I don’t have to make a decision! Makes it easy, so I’ll go that route. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jan 18, 2021 9:55:29 GMT -5
I avoid all fans when it comes to audio & home theatre, so if that’s the application I’d go heat sink, but if you’re not using it for those purposes a quiet fan is less objectionable (location fits into this decision).
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Post by vcautokid on Jan 18, 2021 9:59:13 GMT -5
There are many "quiet" cool solutions. I hate fans personally as they are another point of failure. I am a big heat sink believer. No moving parts, so it's quiet and no fan to go bad. If you get a fan, get a good one not a cheap one. Anything cheap that spins fast will die fast.
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 18, 2021 10:05:31 GMT -5
My Dad had fans for his 1963 Sherwood receiver.
That thing got so hot in the back that the tube bases were all cracking.
Haven’t seen one since.
Bill
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Post by vcautokid on Jan 18, 2021 10:06:20 GMT -5
When tubes go Nuclear.
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Post by jdubs on Jan 18, 2021 10:19:14 GMT -5
I'm with you on fans being too loud and being a wear point. I've found that the RPi fans are super quiet when set on low. And they're cheap so if they wear out it's not a big deal. Like I said, I found case kits that include both heat sinks and fans and they are basically the price of just a case so I'm going to start with that. Also, I will tend to place these behind equipment; you'll likely not hear the fan. And one is going in the garage for my outdoor/garage system so that doesn't matter at all!
They have some aluminum heat sink cases that if I get deep into this long term I will use those.
Thanks for the input and conversation! I'm learning this RPi thing quickly... it's way easier than I could have imagined.
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,256
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Post by KeithL on Jan 18, 2021 11:21:40 GMT -5
With the little heat sinks that sit on top of each chip you still have to get the heat out of the case.....
The FLIRC case is one of the more technically elegant solutions. The entire case is a big aluminum heat sink... And altogether it has quite a few square inches of radiating surface... And no fan to worry about...
And the square column rests against the top of the processor chip to conduct heat into the case. This does a very good job of preventing heat from building up in the processor chip.
(You do need to make sure to install the squishy silicon heat conductive pad between the chip and the column.)
Hard to tell what you are referencing. Cooler is always better for longer life of electronics. It all depends on what "hot" is. “I’m always talking about whatever we’re talking about.” Adam Carolla Since this is the Raspberry Pi specific forum, that is what I was referencing. Specifically Raspberry Pi 4 (RPI 4). I did find multiple cases that included both heat sinks and fans, so that is a pretty cost effective way to do it and I don’t have to make a decision! Makes it easy, so I’ll go that route. |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,256
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Post by KeithL on Jan 18, 2021 11:40:18 GMT -5
When it comes to cooling tubes are rather different than solid state components.
Solid state power components are designed so that heat generated on the silicon die is conducted directly to the package. You can then conduct it away through a heat sink (which may be a fancy bit of aluminum fin or simply a heavy copper pad underneath).
With tubes it's quite different. The cathode is supposed to glow orange hot (which is somewhere around 1000 degrees). And the plates of power tubes may get quite hot when they're handling a lot of power. Yet both of those are insulated by the vacuum that surrounds them. (Vacuum doesn't conduct heat. And there are no air currents in that vacuum to carry heat away by convection.) And the interior parts are connected to the base by thin wires that don't conduct much heat. The result is that the plates must radiate heat out into their surroundings in order to dissipate it.
Some of this radiated heat is intercepted by the glass envelope and may cause it to get quite warm Some little peanut tubes run cool enough to safely touch... but some big tubes normally run hot enough to light a match off the glass.
And most of that heat eventually ends up going to heat pretty much everything around the tube.
And, other than certain high-powered transmitting tubes, there's no useful way to attach a heat sink to a tube.
(A fan will help keep the surrounding things from getting hot but does almost nothing to cool the tube's plate and other interior parts...)
I should point out that it is relatively normal for some tubes to run somewhat hot... And, because of the characteristics of the plastics used back then, slight cracking on the tube bases wasn't considered to be a big deal. The glass bulb, which contains the vacuum, is self-contained and sealed. And that glass bulb is going to reach several hundred degrees on many power tubes.
The bases of tubes serve mainly to hold everything in place... but a tube can function just fine with a cracked base as long as it doesn't actually fall apart.
And as long as there is no risk of metal parts touching other metal parts.
(With many tubes there's also a sort of high temperature cement filling the base and holding the glass bulb in place.)
My Dad had fans for his 1963 Sherwood receiver. That thing got so hot in the back that the tube bases were all cracking. Haven’t seen one since. Bill |
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Post by jdubs on Jan 18, 2021 12:11:39 GMT -5
Keith, thanks for the insights. Yes, that is the aluminum one I was looking at. Seems to be the go to for a true heat sink case.
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Post by Ex_Vintage on Jan 18, 2021 14:15:49 GMT -5
In general, forced air fan cooling is 3x more effective at removing heat than a pure convection cooling. If you need a fan, look for the slowest RPM fan you can find (longer fan life). The other drawback of a fan is it moves dust and dirt, so depending on the environment, it can be a big negative.
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 19, 2021 1:00:19 GMT -5
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Post by millst on Jan 19, 2021 11:37:42 GMT -5
For light duty, it's a don't care IMO. The Pi 4 doesn't throttle until 80C. Too many people with too much time on their hands obsessing over it when only the minority are going to push their Pi that hard.
I've had a Pi Zero enclosed in a box outside for years with no issues. It gets direct sunlight all day in the summer where temperatures regularly hit 110F.
If you're that worried, use the FLIRC case Keith recommended. I use it for my media Pi 4. It's reasonably-priced, looks nice, is silent, and does a good job cooling the system.
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