bob51
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 2
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Post by bob51 on Mar 24, 2021 8:37:11 GMT -5
Keith,
Any idea when you guys will be developing the HDMI upgrade board for the XMC-2? It would be great to be able to use eARC .
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Post by doc1963 on Mar 24, 2021 9:10:20 GMT -5
Keith, Any idea when you guys will be developing the HDMI upgrade board for the XMC-2? It would be great to be able to use eARC . I can't speak for KeithL, but I'm sure he would also say that any new HDMI 2.1 board is not coming anytime soon. But in the meantime, there is a way for you to take advantage of the eARC capabilities of your display using your current (or any) HDMI board. As long as your display doesn't "freak out" (like an LG CX series would) when presented with a CEC loop, the Thenaudio SHARC eARC adapter would work for you. You can find information on the SHARC adapter... HERE |
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bob51
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 2
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Post by bob51 on Mar 28, 2021 15:25:46 GMT -5
Thanks for the information. I think I will give the SHARC eARC Audio Converter a try.
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simonz
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 4
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Post by simonz on Mar 31, 2021 5:34:03 GMT -5
Keith, Any idea when you guys will be developing the HDMI upgrade board for the XMC-2? It would be great to be able to use eARC . I can't speak for KeithL, but I'm sure he would also say that any new HDMI 2.1 board is not coming anytime soon. But in the meantime, there is a way for you to take advantage of the eARC capabilities of your display using your current (or any) HDMI board. As long as your display doesn't "freak out" (like an LG CX series would) when presented with a CEC loop, the Thenaudio SHARC eARC adapter would work for you. You can find information on the SHARC adapter... HEREHi, I'm not sure if my XMC-2 is able to get Atmos signal out of DD+ container at the first place. I'm using Shield Pro (2019) and XMC2 doesn't recognize Atmos signal from Amazon Video streams (DD+ container). My old Arcam did it right and also demo RMC1 unit, which I have on test, managed to read it right. Even more, RMC1 (firmware 2.1) could play Atmos over eARC (LG C9) without any issues. Second question, I'm not sure what you achieve with SHARC eARC in this scenario. If I'm not mistaken one should use ZONE-2 eARC (https://www.thenaudio.com/product/zone-2-earc-audio-processor/), to extract Atmos signal from eARC signal and hook it to one of the HDMI inputs on XMC2. p.s.: if is the goal of SHARC eARC just to get regular stereo/surround (non-immersive) signal out of eARC, you can get it simple by turning off the eARC on the TV or use the optical/coax output. |
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Post by doc1963 on Mar 31, 2021 6:10:49 GMT -5
I can't speak for KeithL, but I'm sure he would also say that any new HDMI 2.1 board is not coming anytime soon. But in the meantime, there is a way for you to take advantage of the eARC capabilities of your display using your current (or any) HDMI board. As long as your display doesn't "freak out" (like an LG CX series would) when presented with a CEC loop, the Thenaudio SHARC eARC adapter would work for you. You can find information on the SHARC adapter... HEREHi, I'm not sure if my XMC-2 is able to get Atmos signal out of DD+ container at the first place. I'm using Shield Pro (2019) and XMC2 doesn't recognize Atmos signal from Amazon Video streams (DD+ container). My old Arcam did it right and also demo RMC1 unit, which I have on test, managed to read it right. Even more, RMC1 (firmware 2.1) could play Atmos over eARC (LG C9) without any issues. Second question, I'm not sure what you achieve with SHARC eARC in this scenario. If I'm not mistaken one should use ZONE-2 eARC (https://www.thenaudio.com/product/zone-2-earc-audio-processor/), to extract Atmos signal from eARC signal and hook it to one of the HDMI inputs on XMC2. p.s.: if is the goal of SHARC eARC just to get regular stereo/surround (non-immersive) signal out of eARC, you can get it simple by turning off the eARC on the TV or use the optical/coax output. All of the Emotiva “Gen3” processors (XMC-2 / RMC-1L / RMC-1) fully support all forms of Dolby Atmos regardless of the DD container. What none of the G3 processors support is “ eARC” which would be the sole purpose of the SHARC device in the scenario you’ve quoted. If you’re not getting Atmos from Amazon Prime on your Nvida Shield (from the very limited number of Prime titles that actually use Atmos), it’s very likely an issue with either the Prime app or Amazon’s servers. Support for Atmos and/or HDR content suddenly “disappearing” and then reappearing has been an ongoing issue with the Prime app for many months. That’s why you see so many app updates (if you’re actually monitoring them). Since all “streamed” Atmos content is transported using DD+, and to rule out an issue with your processor, play an Atmos title from any other popular app that provides Atmos content (Netflix, Disney+, Vudu, Movies Anywhere, etc...). If you get Atmos from any of those content providers, then you know it’s a typical “Prime” app issue and not your processor or the Shield. |
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simonz
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 4
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Post by simonz on Mar 31, 2021 8:45:45 GMT -5
Hi, I'm not sure if my XMC-2 is able to get Atmos signal out of DD+ container at the first place. I'm using Shield Pro (2019) and XMC2 doesn't recognize Atmos signal from Amazon Video streams (DD+ container). My old Arcam did it right and also demo RMC1 unit, which I have on test, managed to read it right. Even more, RMC1 (firmware 2.1) could play Atmos over eARC (LG C9) without any issues. Second question, I'm not sure what you achieve with SHARC eARC in this scenario. If I'm not mistaken one should use ZONE-2 eARC (https://www.thenaudio.com/product/zone-2-earc-audio-processor/), to extract Atmos signal from eARC signal and hook it to one of the HDMI inputs on XMC2. p.s.: if is the goal of SHARC eARC just to get regular stereo/surround (non-immersive) signal out of eARC, you can get it simple by turning off the eARC on the TV or use the optical/coax output. All of the Emotiva “Gen3” processors (XMC-2 / RMC-1L / RMC-1) fully support all forms of Dolby Atmos regardless of the DD container. What none of the G3 processors support is “ eARC” which would be the sole purpose of the SHARC device in the scenario you’ve quoted. If you’re not getting Atmos from Amazon Prime on your Nvida Shield (from the very limited number of Prime titles that actually use Atmos), it’s very likely an issue with either the Prime app or Amazon’s servers. Support for Atmos and/or HDR content suddenly “disappearing” and then reappearing has been an ongoing issue with the Prime app for many months. That’s why you see so many app updates (if you’re actually monitoring them). Since all “streamed” Atmos content is transported using DD+, and to rule out an issue with your processor, play an Atmos title from any other popular app that provides Atmos content (Netflix, Disney+, Vudu, Movies Anywhere, etc...). If you get Atmos from any of those content providers, then you know it’s a typical “Prime” app issue and not your processor or the Shield. Thanx, I will try different app on Shield. Although is interesting that on RMC1 using the same firmware everything worked (including eARC - Dolby Atmos). Still little bit confused about the concept of connecting the Shark eARC ... if I understand correctly, while TV is hooked up over SHARK to one of the processor's inputs, the processor's HDMI output should be disconnected from TV anyway, because of CEC loops. But, that means you have to manually switch cables from processor to Shark every time when you wanna watch TV-eARC content. Or I'm missing something here? Otherwise I was thinking about the following concept, using ZONE-2 eARC Audio Processor (https://www.thenaudio.com/product/zone-2-earc-audio-processor/) : - eARC TV input port connected to the ZONE-2 port 1) labeled “CONNECT to eARC/ARC PORT on TV - AVR HDMI output port connected to the ZONE-2 port 2) labeled “CONNECT to eARC/ARC PORT on AVR - AVR HDMI input port connected to the ZONE-2 port 3) labeled “CONNECT to INPUT PORT on AVR But the question is, if in this scenario the CEC loops problem occurs. |
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Post by doc1963 on Mar 31, 2021 9:39:05 GMT -5
All of the Emotiva “Gen3” processors (XMC-2 / RMC-1L / RMC-1) fully support all forms of Dolby Atmos regardless of the DD container. What none of the G3 processors support is “ eARC” which would be the sole purpose of the SHARC device in the scenario you’ve quoted. If you’re not getting Atmos from Amazon Prime on your Nvida Shield (from the very limited number of Prime titles that actually use Atmos), it’s very likely an issue with either the Prime app or Amazon’s servers. Support for Atmos and/or HDR content suddenly “disappearing” and then reappearing has been an ongoing issue with the Prime app for many months. That’s why you see so many app updates (if you’re actually monitoring them). Since all “streamed” Atmos content is transported using DD+, and to rule out an issue with your processor, play an Atmos title from any other popular app that provides Atmos content (Netflix, Disney+, Vudu, Movies Anywhere, etc...). If you get Atmos from any of those content providers, then you know it’s a typical “Prime” app issue and not your processor or the Shield. Thanx, I will try different app on Shield. Although is interesting that on RMC1 using the same firmware everything worked (including eARC - Dolby Atmos). Still little bit confused about the concept of connecting the Shark eARC ... if I understand correctly, while TV is hooked up over SHARK to one of the processor's inputs, the processor's HDMI output should be disconnected from TV anyway, because of CEC loops. But, that means you have to manually switch cables from processor to Shark every time when you wanna watch TV-eARC content. Or I'm missing something here? Otherwise I was thinking about the following concept, using ZONE-2 eARC Audio Processor (https://www.thenaudio.com/product/zone-2-earc-audio-processor/) : - eARC TV input port connected to the ZONE-2 port 1) labeled “CONNECT to eARC/ARC PORT on TV - AVR HDMI output port connected to the ZONE-2 port 2) labeled “CONNECT to eARC/ARC PORT on AVR - AVR HDMI input port connected to the ZONE-2 port 3) labeled “CONNECT to INPUT PORT on AVR But the question is, if in this scenario the CEC loops problem occurs. The TV itself is the cause of the CEC loopback "freak out" and, as far as I know, mostly affects 2020 (and possibly 2019) LG sets. The loopback issue is caused by having playback devices connected to the AVR/AVP rather than directly to the TV. Apparently, the LG's don't like this, but not all displays are subject to the issue. Likewise, if you don't have HDMI 2.1 source devices (ie: PS5 or Xbox Series X) that need to connect directly to the HDMI ports of an HDMI 2.1 compatible display to take advantage of HDMI 2.1 features while, in turn, requiring eARC as a "hi-rez" audio passthrough back to your AVP/AVR, then there's no need for a device such as the SHARC. Every TV manufactured since 2017 can pass "lossy" Atmos via DD+ over a traditional HDMI ARC connection. One doesn't need a SHARC to do this. However, keep in mind that neither a coaxial or Toslink connection supports DD+. But... and there's a big BUT here... trying to get a reliable ARC connection between your display and any of the G3 processors can be a complete exercise in futility. In this case, if your display supports eARC (and isn't subject to the CEC loopback issue), then the SHARC might be a viable solution. And if it doesn't work, simply return it. As for the "Zone-2" product, AFAIK the only difference between them is an additional HDMI output which would allow support for both a soundbar and an AVR/AVP without switching connections. Functionally, both are the same. |
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,269
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Post by KeithL on Mar 31, 2021 9:56:18 GMT -5
It's not a CEC issue; it's an HDMI issue.
The basic issue is that HDMI is somewhat paranoid about security.
In this case you have an HDMI connection between the output of the processor and the input on the TV. And you have another HDMI connection between the TV and the processor through the SHARC box.
And when HDMI detects "two paths connecting the same two devices via HDMI" it considers this to be unusual or "suspicious". (And, when the HDMI ecosystem gets nervous, it shuts off the content.)
The same thing sometimes occurs if you connect BOTH HDMI outputs from a source with dual outputs to inputs on the same processor or TV.
Sometimes it works OK... depending on the devices involved... and sometimes HDMI shuts off the content because "it senses something fishy".
Since it is not a standard configuration for HDMI different TVs or source devices may interpret it differently.
(Odds are that either it will work or you'll get no picture and/or no sound.)
From their literature the guys who make the eARC box expect you to use it in situations where all of your apps are on the TV. And any other sources you may have are plugged directly into the TV. So their box is the ONLY HDMI connection or path between your TV and processor.
And, as long as you only use TV apps, or don't mind using your TV to switch your other sources, it should work fine that way.
(We haven't tried one but it looks like a neat little gadget.)
Thanx, I will try different app on Shield. Although is interesting that on RMC1 using the same firmware everything worked (including eARC - Dolby Atmos). Still little bit confused about the concept of connecting the Shark eARC ... if I understand correctly, while TV is hooked up over SHARK to one of the processor's inputs, the processor's HDMI output should be disconnected from TV anyway, because of CEC loops. But, that means you have to manually switch cables from processor to Shark every time when you wanna watch TV-eARC content. Or I'm missing something here? Otherwise I was thinking about the following concept, using ZONE-2 eARC Audio Processor (https://www.thenaudio.com/product/zone-2-earc-audio-processor/) : - eARC TV input port connected to the ZONE-2 port 1) labeled “CONNECT to eARC/ARC PORT on TV - AVR HDMI output port connected to the ZONE-2 port 2) labeled “CONNECT to eARC/ARC PORT on AVR - AVR HDMI input port connected to the ZONE-2 port 3) labeled “CONNECT to INPUT PORT on AVR But the question is, if in this scenario the CEC loops problem occurs. The TV itself is the cause of the CEC loopback "freak out" and, as far as I know, mostly affects 2020 (and possibly 2019) LG sets. The loopback issue is caused by having playback devices connected to the AVR/AVP rather than directly to the TV. Apparently, the LG's don't like this, but not all displays are subject to the issue. Likewise, if you don't have HDMI 2.1 source devices (ie: PS5 or Xbox Series X) that need to connect directly to the HDMI ports of an HDMI 2.1 compatible display to take advantage of HDMI 2.1 features while, in turn, requiring eARC as a "hi-rez" audio passthrough back to your AVP/AVR, then there's no need for a device such as the SHARC. Every TV manufactured since 2017 can pass "lossy" Atmos via DD+ over a traditional HDMI ARC connection. One doesn't need a SHARC to do this. However, keep in mind that neither a coaxial or Toslink connection supports DD+. But... and there's a big BUT here... trying to get a reliable ARC connection between your display and any of the G3 processors can be a complete exercise in futility. In this case, if your display supports eARC (and isn't subject to the CEC loopback issue), then the SHARC might be a viable solution. And if it doesn't work, simply return it. As for the "Zone-2" product, AFAIK the only difference between them is an additional HDMI output which would allow support for both a soundbar and an AVR/AVP without switching connections. Functionally, both are the same. |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,269
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Post by KeithL on Mar 31, 2021 9:59:52 GMT -5
Actually, in this case, I wouldn't go that far. While I don't have any details, and we haven't announced a date yet, I don't expect it to be very long now.
(But it is safe to say it WON'T be in the next few weeks.)
Keith, Any idea when you guys will be developing the HDMI upgrade board for the XMC-2? It would be great to be able to use eARC . I can't speak for KeithL, but I'm sure he would also say that any new HDMI 2.1 board is not coming anytime soon. But in the meantime, there is a way for you to take advantage of the eARC capabilities of your display using your current (or any) HDMI board. As long as your display doesn't "freak out" (like an LG CX series would) when presented with a CEC loop, the Thenaudio SHARC eARC adapter would work for you. You can find information on the SHARC adapter... HERE |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,269
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Post by KeithL on Mar 31, 2021 10:07:53 GMT -5
As an aside.... The firmware and HDMI hardware on the XMC-2, RMC-1, and RMC-1L are basically the same. Therefore, anything that works on the RMC-1 should also work on the XMC-2, as long as you're using the same firmware version. If you have them connected the same way, and configured the same, then they should handle this situation the same way. And both are capable of handling Atmos with a DD+ container. (Although, with other devices, and various streaming services, your mileage there definitely may vary...)
However, in that case, since DD+ is a lossy format, you're getting the Atmos "channel steering metadata", but the audio core itself is still lossy.
I can't speak for KeithL, but I'm sure he would also say that any new HDMI 2.1 board is not coming anytime soon. But in the meantime, there is a way for you to take advantage of the eARC capabilities of your display using your current (or any) HDMI board. As long as your display doesn't "freak out" (like an LG CX series would) when presented with a CEC loop, the Thenaudio SHARC eARC adapter would work for you. You can find information on the SHARC adapter... HEREHi, I'm not sure if my XMC-2 is able to get Atmos signal out of DD+ container at the first place. I'm using Shield Pro (2019) and XMC2 doesn't recognize Atmos signal from Amazon Video streams (DD+ container). My old Arcam did it right and also demo RMC1 unit, which I have on test, managed to read it right. Even more, RMC1 (firmware 2.1) could play Atmos over eARC (LG C9) without any issues. Second question, I'm not sure what you achieve with SHARC eARC in this scenario. If I'm not mistaken one should use ZONE-2 eARC (https://www.thenaudio.com/product/zone-2-earc-audio-processor/), to extract Atmos signal from eARC signal and hook it to one of the HDMI inputs on XMC2. p.s.: if is the goal of SHARC eARC just to get regular stereo/surround (non-immersive) signal out of eARC, you can get it simple by turning off the eARC on the TV or use the optical/coax output. |
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