Germotiva
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Post by Germotiva on Mar 31, 2021 17:14:24 GMT -5
Hello experts in the forum.
I would like to actively operate my Maggi Mg 1.6 over the DSP. Why?
In the film mode I want another setting than in music mode.
And want to relieve the High ribbons.(x-over higher)
Which emotive power amp would recommend you.
My favorite is the BASX A 5-175. Why 5 channel. Since I only really want to operate the front of my home theater.
This later consists of 5 pic. mg 1.6.
Left,Tri-Center,Right.
The MID ribbons are controlled with an XPA 5. Another XPA5 I think exaggerated?
Thanks for your opinions
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Post by garbulky on Mar 31, 2021 17:59:28 GMT -5
Germotiva I would use your XPA-5 gen 1 instead of the Bas-x for your application.
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Germotiva
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Post by Germotiva on Apr 2, 2021 14:19:48 GMT -5
Germotiva I would use your XPA-5 gen 1 instead of the Bas-x for your application. Why the XPA and not the 5-175. Is the XPA5 not exaggerated(300w) for the high ribbons. The Mid Ribbons are already approached with the XPA5 Or is the 5-175 not sound suitable for the high ribbons. |
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cawgijoe
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"We made too many of the wrong mistakes." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Apr 2, 2021 14:51:04 GMT -5
Germotiva I would use your XPA-5 gen 1 instead of the Bas-x for your application. Why the XPA and not the 5-175. Is the XPA5 not exaggerated(300w) for the high ribbons. The Mid Ribbons are already approached with the XPA5 Or is the 5-175 not sound suitable for the high ribbons. Either amp should work fine. The XPA series is a higher quality amp than the Bas-x. Switch between them and decide. |
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Post by leonski on Apr 7, 2021 18:32:16 GMT -5
NONE of the Bass-X amps will sink the current Magnepans require.
I power Mine with 2x200 per panel and low cut (remove bass) below about 50hz.
The 1.6 is NOT a ribbon speaker. It has a flat conductor glued to the mylar. They call it 'Quasi ribbon' QR for short.
Ribbon tweeters Ireal ones) are ONLY in the 3-series (3.5 / 3.6 / 3.7 MGIII) on UP.
The FUSE for the mid / high frequencies is 4 amps. I've NEVER popped this fuse. The crossover is about 600hz.
If the panel will take 10 amps, that's 400 watts. a LOT of power.
The 1.6 is a 2-Way speaker. You can drive each 1/2 seperately using the back panel connections for banana plugs......But
Pull the jumpers!
What are you trying to do? The XPA would appear to have enough power. It is difficult to OVER power magnepan....
USE YOUR EARS and listen for signs of distress which are different than for 'box' speakers.
My original MG1 panels from the late 70s would easily accomodate 200+ per speaker and I COULD if pressed, pop the 1 1/2 amp fuse....
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Post by leonski on Apr 7, 2021 20:47:41 GMT -5
Also? IF you intend to change the crossover frequency and 'go active' with one amplifier per 'way', I'd say to use something like the MiniDSP 2x4HD, which is 2 volts output. And amazingly flexible. Do NOT change the crossover frequency, though. A lot of time and effort went into making this work. And it is in a area which doesnt' 'mess' with other sound factors. Why would you want to change the crossover frequncy? As for taking apart the panel to DO the direct wiring to the amp? Look forward to 100 or MORE Staples. Yep. Magnepan owns stock in a company that Makes Staples. If you raise the frequency of crossover you will make the Low End more 'beamy'........ Here is link to the Stereophile TEST and measurememts of the 1.6 This may help you out. Me? I'd try to duplicate the STOCK crossover first. It is a 2nd order high pass (inductor AND capacitors) on the low end and a first order (just capacitors) on the highs. The 90 degree shift between LF and HF output thru the crossover means it's a good idea to put the tweeters a certain way. You can determine this BY EAR. Tweeter output LEADS the woofers by a very small time delay due to this phase relationship. www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/595/index.htmlEnjoy your project. do ONE step at a time and listen. Keep CAREFUL records. |
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Post by garbulky on Apr 7, 2021 21:12:54 GMT -5
Germotiva I would use your XPA-5 gen 1 instead of the Bas-x for your application. Why the XPA and not the 5-175. Is the XPA5 not exaggerated(300w) for the high ribbons. The Mid Ribbons are already approached with the XPA5 Or is the 5-175 not sound suitable for the high ribbons. I consider the xpa5 to be a better sounding amp. You should use that instead. I would not recommend mixing the amps. Also the 5-175 has a different gain 29fb versus xpa5 which uses 32 db |
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Post by leonski on Apr 7, 2021 23:57:09 GMT -5
If you use the RIGHT DSP, you should be able to correct minor amp gain differences......
OR do as I do and use identical amps.....I have ONE stereo amp per panel......
A potential difference in apparent gain will be IF you remove the inductor. It has a DCR of 0.4 ohms and acts to lower the output
of the circuit to which it is connected. Maybe somewhere around 1db or so.....INSIGNIFICANT. But you should be aware of such things
before you remove (Gut) the crossover and go 'active'.......
And if that weren't enough? The 50:50 POWER POINT for 'normal' music is about 350hz. So identical power on highs and lows is NOT overdoing it.
The crossover on the MG1.6 is close enough to that @600hz to not matter......
While from 10khz on up MAY need only about 10% of the power......and maybe 40hz or 50hz on DOWN may only need 10% of the power, in NO case should
you allocate LESS for those bands and they will benefit from more......A bigger pie with bigger 'slices' for each band.
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Germotiva
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Post by Germotiva on Apr 12, 2021 15:49:10 GMT -5
If you use the RIGHT DSP, you should be able to correct minor amp gain differences...... OR do as I do and use identical amps.....I have ONE stereo amp per panel...... A potential difference in apparent gain will be IF you remove the inductor. It has a DCR of 0.4 ohms and acts to lower the output of the circuit to which it is connected. Maybe somewhere around 1db or so.....INSIGNIFICANT. But you should be aware of such things before you remove (Gut) the crossover and go 'active'....... And if that weren't enough? The 50:50 POWER POINT for 'normal' music is about 350hz. So identical power on highs and lows is NOT overdoing it. The crossover on the MG1.6 is close enough to that @600hz to not matter...... While from 10khz on up MAY need only about 10% of the power......and maybe 40hz or 50hz on DOWN may only need 10% of the power, in NO case should you allocate LESS for those bands and they will benefit from more......A bigger pie with bigger 'slices' for each band. hi, yes i have a good dsp😉. Too many. That's why I'm crazy too. 🤪I will only make decisions when I have the TRI Center Setup (3xmg1.6) in use. Here I will experiment much here. To satisfy my ears. I will also use and test 2 same channels (XPA5) for 1 mg 1.6. As you. Before I actively test with the DSP. With the DSP I can change the frequency band of the ribbons. But only in home theater mode. For music I use the minimum. Player (SPIDF) to DSP😉. This detects the DSP and switches the course setting automatically.💪 |
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Germotiva
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Post by Germotiva on Apr 12, 2021 15:59:08 GMT -5
Since I have adapted the midbass properly to the sub and the MG 1.6 to the midbasses I am happy.
Really fast and dry with fine dynamics. Only the men's voices could be better. That's why I'm looking for better midbasses for men's voices. Affordable tip?
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Post by leonski on Apr 12, 2021 16:08:57 GMT -5
You DO know that dispersion will be awful with 3x MG1.6 as center? I can't even think of a configuration in whichthat may work. AND you need plenty of space behind them for 'backwave'.....
I have NO idea what you have in mind by essentialy ReEngineering the crossover for more or less frequency coverage from the tweeter. It is NOT A RIBBON. trust me on this....
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Germotiva
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Post by Germotiva on Apr 12, 2021 16:32:38 GMT -5
You DO know that dispersion will be awful with 3x MG1.6 as center? I can't even think of a configuration in whichthat may work. AND you need plenty of space behind them for 'backwave'..... I have NO idea what you have in mind by essentialy ReEngineering the crossover for more or less frequency coverage from the tweeter. It is NOT A RIBBON. trust me on this.... this is what my front looks like in my next room.  the canvas is getting big. the speakers (L + R) are far away. that's why i test everything in the current room. here the measurements. the circles are my sub in the ceiling🤪  |
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Post by vcautokid on Apr 12, 2021 16:40:59 GMT -5
I would agree with Garbulky. The extra current swing is just what those Maggies want. They tend to be rather reactive in impedance. So the XPA-5 is my vote as well. I used to run an XPA-2 with my Maggies many moons back.
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Germotiva
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Post by Germotiva on Apr 12, 2021 16:49:36 GMT -5
Now you know my next dream.  The seven surrounds (MG12/MG1.6) run electrically from the ceiling. in a circle |
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Germotiva
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Post by Germotiva on Apr 12, 2021 16:52:03 GMT -5
I would agree with Garbulky. The extra current swing is just what those Maggies want. They tend to be rather reactive in impedance. So the XPA-5 is my vote as well. I used to run an XPA-2 with my Maggies many moons back. Ok, then I accept your thinking and test this first. |
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Germotiva
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Post by Germotiva on Apr 12, 2021 17:02:50 GMT -5
Sometimes I think I'm an American. I'm just as crazy (do not misunderstand). Wear a baseball cap every day. Games like baseball (almost I would have made a Grand Slam (Softball). I love drinking and eating. I love the country in which I live. Only I can not speak English 😂😂😬 .... I am a Berliner😂😂
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Post by leonski on Apr 12, 2021 19:06:28 GMT -5
I would agree with Garbulky. The extra current swing is just what those Maggies want. They tend to be rather reactive in impedance. So the XPA-5 is my vote as well. I used to run an XPA-2 with my Maggies many moons back. The 2 Maggies for which I have actual measured data show very LITTLE reactance except perhaps thru the crossover passband. Maggies are a fairly benign load BUT of very low sensitivity. Go to stereophile and look up the 1.6 and the 3.6 reviews. www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/595/index.htmlwww.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/303/index.htmlNewer Magnepan might use a Series Crossover which is its OWN can of worms, but not 'highly reactive' by any stretch..... All that as true? I'd ALSO agree with Gar that Maggies LIKE current and the ability to deliver same. Though that is in a sense a 'Red Herring'......No amp has sufficient number and highly enough rated output devices to sink 35 or 40 amps. If such were true at even 10 volts? 350 to 400 WATTS. I don't know (can stand correction here) of ANY agreed standard for such a measure. I'd suspect 1 cycle worth of such current at no more than a couple volts. No Mas. In THIS case, the guys that write the blather passing as advertising copy RULE..... XPA5 gets MY vote as well. But for 2 different reasons. Gain match and timbre match......Difficult to beat matching amps in a situation like this..... And as us OLDSTERS remember? Kennedy once said in a FAMOUS speech? 'Ich bin ein Berliner'.........which is said to have rattled the Kremlin |
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Post by vcautokid on Apr 12, 2021 19:38:11 GMT -5
Well in any case power or current is definitely a Margie's best friend. I forgot they made the speakers more friendly kind of.
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Post by leonski on Apr 12, 2021 20:50:01 GMT -5
Well in any case power or current is definitely a Margie's best friend. I forgot they made the speakers more friendly kind of. I'll go with 'kind of', too. They advertise some really low sensitivity.....like 83db. But ALSO specify a single fequency AND at 2.83 volts. Problem? Well......A single frequency doesn't help much AND 2.83 volts is 2 watts at 4 ohms which effectively lowers the 1 watt sensitivity by 3db! This turns your 83db speaker into an 80db speaker which is near the bottom of this particular pile. The only thing keeping this boat floating is that WATTS are CHEAP these days. Keep in mind that if you are drawing 10 watts continuous for 90db, than you need 100 watts for only a 10db peak. Than it gets weird! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2021 20:52:19 GMT -5
Well in any case power or current is definitely a Margie's best friend. I forgot they made the speakers more friendly kind of. They advertise some really low sensitivity.....like 83db. But ALSO specify a single fequency AND at 2.83 volts. Problem? Well......A single frequency doesn't help much AND 2.83 volts is 2 watts at 4 ohms which effectively lowers the 1 watt sensitivity by 3db! There is no issue other than wanting to rate the specification at 1 watts rather than 2.83 volts. At 2.83 v. into 4 ohms the sensitivity "IS" 83db end of story. |
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