Need an honest opinion on Bas-X upgrade to XPA (Klipsch)

[gordyg]

So I purchased the bas-x stereo amp about a year ago and I am happy with it. The thing is I recently purchased bigger speakers. Klipsch 280-f speakers rated at 150/600 cont. They sound good but I’m wanting to upgrade the amp to the XPA because I love stereo listening now and have a feeling I could get more out of these speakers. Really I’m just trying to find anyone out there that has actually upgraded from the entry level amps to the higher end amps and what their experience was when they did. 

thanks in advance!

[Ex_Vintage]

I "upgraded" from an A-500 to an XPA-5 Gen3 about a year ago. At the time I was running a pair of Elac UF5 speakers which are rated at 4 ohm and 85db sensitivity. The 85db rating is generous since it is a 2.83v rating and they are 4 ohms. The "more power" amp made a difference in the mid to low end punch for those speakers, but for your Klipsch at 98db, the more power aspect will definitely be less noticeable. I am now running some RP-600M speakers on the A-500 and they sound just fine.

[dust770]

A lot depends on how loud you listen from reference and how far away your loudspeakers are from your main listening position. With that basic info we can look at how many watts your using vs how many you may need. When you listen, where is your volume on your receiver? -15, -10, 0? Etc..

[Boomzilla]

I've owned both BasX equipment and the X-series. Do the latter sound audibly better? Yes, in most systems. Is the difference worth the extra cost? Maybe - but there are factors that come into consideration:

1. Are you playing your system at higher volumes? Yes - maybe go with the big boys.

2. Are you hoping to keep the system for decades? Yes - maybe the X series will be more reliable (but this is pure speculation on my part).

3. How picky are you about the sound? Although you'll hear a probable improvement with the X series, the actual difference is only in the range of 10% (if that).

4. Which way did I go with my own system? My X series gear is gone. The BasX receiver is still in my system.

Now these opinions are worth every penny you're paying for them. Only YOUR ears can make the final decision. Emotiva makes this easy with their return policies. Buy the new amps and try them out. Not worth it to you? Send them back. The shipping cost is trivial compared to having gear you don't like. But I'd guess (not having any access to Emotiva's data) that the majority of those who order the X-series amps end up keeping them. And you'd also have the satisfaction of knowing that you have the "best," and need not wonder about whether your current electronics are holding your speakers back.

That all said, I'm obligated to throw the proverbial monkey wrench in the works... Have you heard tubes? Many swear on a stack of bibles that they prefer the sound of tubes with their Klipsch speakers to the sound of solid-state. Just asking...

[gordyg]

Boomzilla. Thanks for your response. So I haven’t heard tube amps. But I have been interested in trying them over the past year. The ones I have seen (that fit into my budget) have a very low wattage rating. Typically 30-50 wpc. So I didn’t even consider purchasing them because I didn’t think it would be worth it based on the fact that I’m using a 150 wpc amp currently. Now you have me thinking....

Since I have Sensitive speakers would it be smart to try a lower rated tube amp vs a higher rated SS amp?

And if so, would you point me in the direction of a good online place to start looking? (I live in the country and Best Buy is the only electronics store I have access to unfortunately.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Rafy]

I ran a BSX A700 before with my RP 280, upgraded to the XPA series, I do a lot two channels listening when I work out, I love how it sounds, I yet to run Dirac for two channels, as I'm afraid it might change the sound, is that good !

[garbulky]

gordyg I listened to the XPA2 gen 3 and compared it to the bas-x a-300. Me and my friend both preferred the A-300. However, that didn't mean the XPAA gen 3 sounded bad. It sounded pretty good and had some tight bass and control. But we thought the A-300 had a more natural tone.
If you wanted to upgrade, I would recommend a used XPA-2 gen 2 which I think is one of the best amps I've heard (or an Emotiva PA-1).

[KeithL]

Tube amps add an interesting coloration to the sound that many people seem to find pleasing.

This can also vary quite a bit between different models and types...

For example, single-ended triodes generally add a lot more coloration, but many people find the sort of coloration they produce especially pleasing.

In contrast, some pentode-based amps sound very much like solid state gear (which sort of defeats the whole purpose).

Most people who like it often describe tube gear as sounding "smoother" or "mellower"...

This can work out well with Klipsch speakers - which have a somewhat "forward" or "in your face" sound characteristic...

Tube amps generally overload more gracefully than solid state amps.

This means that, for a given power rating, you can turn them up higher before they start sounding particularly bad.

(So a 50 watt/channel tube amp should be able to drive efficient speakers quite loudly with no problem.)

Apr 27, 2021 10:23:52 GMT -5 gordyg said:

Boomzilla . Thanks for your response. So I haven’t heard tube amps. But I have been interested in trying them over the past year. The ones I have seen (that fit into my budget) have a very low wattage rating. Typically 30-50 wpc. So I didn’t even consider purchasing them because I didn’t think it would be worth it based on the fact that I’m using a 150 wpc amp currently. Now you have me thinking....

Since I have Sensitive speakers would it be smart to try a lower rated tube amp vs a higher rated SS amp?

And if so, would you point me in the direction of a good online place to start looking? (I live in the country and Best Buy is the only electronics store I have access to unfortunately.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Boomzilla]

Apr 27, 2021 10:23:52 GMT -5 gordyg said:

Boomzilla.
...And if so, would you point me in the direction of a good online place to start looking? (I live in the country and Best Buy is the only electronics store I have access...

Mono price sells a tube integrated for about $250, if I remember right. If you like the sound, Black Ice audio sells some awesome integrated amps starting at about $1,500. Tubes4hifi sells kits, if you’d care to go in that direction. Other tube gear makers include:

McIntosh
Audio Research
Conrad-Johnson
Moon audio
Rogue audio
Audio by Van Alstine
Quicksilver
Balanced Audio Technology
And a BUNCH of Chinese brands

Boom

[pallpoul]

My RF-7 III's, run on a Dennis Had tube amp, 300B tubes, 8 wpc. Amazingly sweet sound, and if you desire, they can go really loud.

[teaman]

With two eight inch woofers, your Klipsch speakers will thank you for stepping up to the XPA amp. I found each time i increased the power to my KLF-30's, the better driver control I had. The woofers will sound tighter and less sloppy. Just because the Klipsch are highly efficient doesn't mean they won't benefit from higher power. I run a pair of 600 watt XPA-1 monoblocks to my KLF-30's, which are 102db efficient.

[gordyg]

Apr 28, 2021 12:14:00 GMT -5 teaman said:

With two eight inch woofers, your Klipsch speakers will thank you for stepping up to the XPA amp. I found each time i increased the power to my KLF-30's, the better driver control I had. The woofers will sound tighter and less sloppy. Just because the Klipsch are highly efficient doesn't mean they won't benefit from higher power. I run a pair of 600 watt XPA-1 monoblocks to my KLF-30's, which are 102db efficient.

Thanks man. I really like the stereo amp XPA line for 1000 but part of me is thinking I should look at the 3 channel since it’s only a little more and I can upgrade my center channel at the same time. 

[gordyg]

Apr 28, 2021 0:02:10 GMT -5 pallpoul said:

My RF-7 III's, run on a Dennis Had tube amp, 300B tubes, 8 wpc. Amazingly sweet sound, and if you desire, they can go really loud.

Wish I splurged and bought those back when I got mine. From what I hear they are sweeeeet speakers. Have you run them on any other amps? And if so why did you switch over to the tube? What was your experience like?

[pallpoul]

Apr 28, 2021 18:38:58 GMT -5 gordyg said:

Apr 28, 2021 0:02:10 GMT -5 pallpoul said:

My RF-7 III's, run on a Dennis Had tube amp, 300B tubes, 8 wpc. Amazingly sweet sound, and if you desire, they can go really loud.

Wish I splurged and bought those back when I got mine. From what I hear they are sweeeeet speakers. Have you run them on any other amps? And if so why did you switch over to the tube? What was your experience like?

I have ran those speakers with Emotiva XPA-1 Gen-2 mono's, and a tube pre amp, sounded real good and powerful, excellent for movies. I do mainly listening to music, and thus I chose the low powered set by Dennis Had.
also tried them with the Yamaha A-S2100 I/A, and they were also great with music and movies.

[gordyg]

Apr 27, 2021 22:57:32 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

Apr 27, 2021 10:23:52 GMT -5 gordyg said:

Boomzilla .
...And if so, would you point me in the direction of a good online place to start looking? (I live in the country and Best Buy is the only electronics store I have access...

Mono price sells a tube integrated for about $250, if I remember right. If you like the sound, Black Ice audio sells some awesome integrated amps starting at about $1,500. Tubes4hifi sells kits, if you’d care to go in that direction. Other tube gear makers include:

McIntosh
Audio Research
Conrad-Johnson
Moon audio
Rogue audio
Audio by Van Alstine
Quicksilver
Balanced Audio Technology
And a BUNCH of Chinese brands

Boom

Rabbit hole rabbit hole rabbit hole. So thanks for the recos. Most of the amps listed are a little pricey but the site you sent TUBES4HIFI got my attention. Curious if you’ve ever built one and if so how’d it go, or would you have any tips? For $1000 I’m almost tempted to give it a shot but I’ve always stayed away from DIY unless I’m halfway confident I can get help. The reviews are good too so I’m sure it’s not high level engineering but an opportunity to learn and hopefully get better performance in my system. 

[Boomzilla]

Hi again, gordyg -

I've never personally put together a Tubes4HiFi kit, but looking at the amps I reviewed, it seemed doable should I have wanted to. The company has great support and will coach you through any issues. Be aware, however, that such tasks can be time consuming.

As to tube amps being pricey - you got that right! In fact, were I starting from scratch, my choice would be a tube preamp with a solid state power amp. Much better reliability and much lower cost.

Best of luck!

Boom

[leonski]

Apr 27, 2021 8:51:28 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

I've owned both BasX equipment and the X-series. Do the latter sound audibly better? Yes, in most systems. Is the difference worth the extra cost? Maybe - but there are factors that come into consideration:

1. Are you playing your system at higher volumes? Yes - maybe go with the big boys.

2. Are you hoping to keep the system for decades? Yes - maybe the X series will be more reliable (but this is pure speculation on my part).

3. How picky are you about the sound? Although you'll hear a probable improvement with the X series, the actual difference is only in the range of 10% (if that).

4. Which way did I go with my own system? My X series gear is gone. The BasX receiver is still in my system.

Now these opinions are worth every penny you're paying for them. Only YOUR ears can make the final decision. Emotiva makes this easy with their return policies. Buy the new amps and try them out. Not worth it to you? Send them back. The shipping cost is trivial compared to having gear you don't like. But I'd guess (not having any access to Emotiva's data) that the majority of those who order the X-series amps end up keeping them. And you'd also have the satisfaction of knowing that you have the "best," and need not wonder about whether your current electronics are holding your speakers back.

That all said, I'm obligated to throw the proverbial monkey wrench in the works... Have you heard tubes? Many swear on a stack of bibles that they prefer the sound of tubes with their Klipsch speakers to the sound of solid-state. Just asking...

You just gave me a weird idea and maybe a 'help' to decide.

You can put your requirements in order......than assign points to each 'need'.   Cost?   Power?   Distortion?  'The Look'?   Reliability?    Warranty?   'Features'? (auto on / level control / loop out?)    Hardware? (speaker terminals and layout)

Just for example?    POWER.    This is one decision point for many.     You might be comparing the A2 with the DR2?    Give the A2 4Points @8 ohms and 3Points @4ohms......But the DR2 might be 7 and 7, because of the lower 4ohm distortion.

The A2 would get points for less expensive.    

Continue thru YOUR list than add 'em up.    

[Boomzilla]

My priorities are simpler - How does it sound? The closer the answer is to "amazing," the higher the goody-factor. Everything else is far lower on the priority scale.

For some types of music, the tube integrated really sounds superior with sweetness and slam. For other types, the solid-state integrated takes the cake with detail and precision. And when I say "types of music," it isn't so clearly cut as "tubes for classical, solid-state for rock." It depends on the recording. That's why I'm so pleased with my current system - I can switch back & forth to see what sounds better.

Am I picky? Yes. Am I overly concerned about getting the best from each of my recordings - probably, but I also consider it fun, not work. I enjoy all the tweaking and consider it a better hobby (for me) than hunting, fishing, cars, motorcycles, guns, or any of the other things that many concern themselves with. I like those things too, but audio is my muse.

Could I assign values to the different things you suggest - cost, power, distortion, looks, reliability, warranty, features, and hardware? Sure, but for me it would be academic and irrelevant to my primary concern. The fun of it is that I occasionally find something at a yard sale that should be worth less than the $10 I paid for it, yet it turns out to sound AMAZING! Such finds have included:

A pair of B&W speakers I picked out of a trash pile
A pair of KEF speakers from a yard sale
A McIntosh MC240 tube power amp I picked up out of a trash pile
A Luxman solid state receiver that sounded amazing
A Luxman tube preamp from an estate sale
A pair of Klipsch Heresy speakers for $5
A pair of Klipsch Cornwall speakers for $100
A pair of Heathkit mono integrated tube amps that I modified
A McIntosh MC352 power amp I bought from a local priest
etc.

I like the thrill of the hunt.

Boom

[leonski]

NONE of what you found 'at garage sales' could be found in Southern California. Closest I ever got? A Philco One Eye (early B&W TV) or a Proton Table Radio... Everything else is GOLD and priced accordingly.
Few have such items and I'd expect to spend a LOT of time to find anything of collectible or with cool-factor value. A neighbor gave me a set of Minimus 7 speakers from RadioShack.....The little Die Cast aluminum case version......

I was at a swap meet. Found some Acoustat speakers. One was a wreck and the other needed a LOT of work. Most of the PS of one of 'em was GONE. 400$? Sorry!

For many? A list of priorities may workr. Many here are overly worried about price and not about value or long-term use. I've got a 70s amp in the garage and my old 'Cube' (Carver) went 25 years, maybe. I don't get a feel that
many have their musical values sorted out.....the guys with 100db speakers and kilowatt amps.....

YOU'VE found a LOT of great stuff. I'll bet a little work and those Klipsch were back to snuff.....

[Boomzilla]

Hi leonski -

Yeah, I do enjoy restorations. I’m good at wood refinishing and don’t mind crossover/electronics restores either.