low
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 5
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Post by low on Jun 1, 2021 18:50:18 GMT -5
Hello. I picked up the E2+ on closeout for rear surrounds in a 5.1. I was thinking the dispersed sound would allow for better speaker placement options behind the couch or near the back wall, but now wondering if I should have picked up another pair of B1+s.
My room details are below and would appreciate any thoughts on if I should pay the return shipping and pick up some B1+s instead. And, if I should keep them, would bipole, dipole, or inverted bipole be best? Thanks in advance!
Room Details
15' wide x 18' long x 8' tall
Couch 10' away from TV/main speakers, 7' from back wall
Left wall mostly open to dining room, so cannot put speakers to side of couch.
Listening Preferences
70% movies, 10% video games, 10% sports, 10% music (classic rock and jazz)
No volume constraints, but I tend to prefer clarity and dynamic range over sheer volume (but I do want to feel the bass still)
Speaker setup
Denon x-2400h
B1+ for fronts
C2+ center
E2+ rears (currently bipole near couch, 1ft above ear level)
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Post by 405x5 on Jun 1, 2021 21:36:17 GMT -5
I put my rear surrounds up Twenty One years ago.
So far, so good đ
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Post by 405x5 on Jun 1, 2021 21:45:39 GMT -5
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low
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 5
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Post by low on Jun 7, 2021 13:34:02 GMT -5
Hello. I picked up the E2+ on closeout for rear surrounds in a 5.1. I was thinking the dispersed sound would allow for better speaker placement options behind the couch or near the back wall, but now wondering if I should have picked up another pair of B1+s. My room details are below and would appreciate any thoughts on if I should pay the return shipping and pick up some B1+s instead. And, if I should keep them, would bipole, dipole, or inverted bipole be best? Thanks in advance! Room Details 15' wide x 18' long x 8' tall Couch 10' away from TV/main speakers, 7' from back wall Left wall mostly open to dining room, so cannot put speakers to side of couch. Listening Preferences 70% movies, 10% video games, 10% sports, 10% music (classic rock and jazz) No volume constraints, but I tend to prefer clarity and dynamic range over sheer volume (but I do want to feel the bass still) Speaker setup Denon x-2400h B1+ for fronts C2+ center E2+ rears (currently bipole near couch, 1ft above ear level) Bumping in hopes of a response. Thank you. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 7, 2021 13:53:13 GMT -5
Actually, you really COULD have the speakers to the sides of the couch if you wanted - just Velcro them to some stands and put the stands where you want them prior to each movie. But I think that I disagree with your E2+ comments. If "dispersed sound" like the E2s don't provide what you want then "point source" speakers like the B1+ ones won't disperse any wider. Now you may prefer point-source rears. Only way to KNOW is to try some & ship them back if they don't do what you want. The good news is that you have plenty of space behind the listening couch, and can try what you wish. Maybe even ceiling mounting?
Boom
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 9,938
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Post by KeithL on Jun 7, 2021 16:29:04 GMT -5
In a 5.1 system you have surrounds, but you do NOT have "rear surrounds"...
(Even if they're all the way in the back they're "surrounds"... just not in the recommended location.)
And, according to their latest literature, Dolby now prefers direct radiating point source speakers for all locations... (They no longer "officially" recommend dipoles for anything.)
Unofficially, if your placement options are limited, and you're not being fanatical about "pinpoint source locations" for sounds assigned to the surrounds... A switchable dipole/bipole like the E2 is going to give you the most options... And the most chances to achieve a pleasant sound with "non-traditional "speaker placement...
I would try experimenting with the various dipole settings... Just remember to always set them SYMMETRICALLY... So either the two tweeters facing the center of the room both inverted or the opposite...
Hello. I picked up the E2+ on closeout for rear surrounds in a 5.1. I was thinking the dispersed sound would allow for better speaker placement options behind the couch or near the back wall, but now wondering if I should have picked up another pair of B1+s. My room details are below and would appreciate any thoughts on if I should pay the return shipping and pick up some B1+s instead. And, if I should keep them, would bipole, dipole, or inverted bipole be best? Thanks in advance! Room Details 15' wide x 18' long x 8' tall Couch 10' away from TV/main speakers, 7' from back wall Left wall mostly open to dining room, so cannot put speakers to side of couch. Listening Preferences 70% movies, 10% video games, 10% sports, 10% music (classic rock and jazz) No volume constraints, but I tend to prefer clarity and dynamic range over sheer volume (but I do want to feel the bass still) Speaker setup Denon x-2400h B1+ for fronts C2+ center E2+ rears (currently bipole near couch, 1ft above ear level) |
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low
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 5
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Post by low on Jun 7, 2021 16:41:17 GMT -5
Actually, you really COULD have the speakers to the sides of the couch if you wanted - just Velcro them to some stands and put the stands where you want them prior to each movie. But I think that I disagree with your E2+ comments. If "dispersed sound" like the E2s don't provide what you want then "point source" speakers like the B1+ ones won't disperse any wider. Now you may prefer point-source rears. Only way to KNOW is to try some & ship them back if they don't do what you want. The good news is that you have plenty of space behind the listening couch, and can try what you wish. Maybe even ceiling mounting? Boom Thanks. I'm not sure if I would prefer pinpoint, I just know now that is the Dolby recommendations. But,I'm not sure where to start on playing with the E2+ settings to see. Any recommendation for starting points regarding bipole/dipole and distance/height? (I'm not sure how to upload a Pic, but putting to the side of a couch creates a tripping hazard for a yone walking into the room from the kitchen. So sides are put for now.) Thanks again. |
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low
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 5
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Post by low on Jun 7, 2021 17:02:23 GMT -5
In a 5.1 system you have surrounds, but you do NOT have "rear surrounds"...
(Even if they're all the way in the back they're "surrounds"... just not in the recommended location.)
And, according to their latest literature, Dolby now prefers direct radiating point source speakers for all locations... (They no longer "officially" recommend dipoles for anything.)
Unofficially, if your placement options are limited, and you're not being fanatical about "pinpoint source locations" for sounds assigned to the surrounds... A switchable dipole/bipole like the E2 is going to give you the most options... And the most chances to achieve a pleasant sound with "non-traditional "speaker placement...
I would try experimenting with the various dipole settings... Just remember to always set them SYMMETRICALLY... So either the two tweeters facing the center of the room both inverted or the opposite...
Hello. I picked up the E2+ on closeout for rear surrounds in a 5.1. I was thinking the dispersed sound would allow for better speaker placement options behind the couch or near the back wall, but now wondering if I should have picked up another pair of B1+s. My room details are below and would appreciate any thoughts on if I should pay the return shipping and pick up some B1+s instead. And, if I should keep them, would bipole, dipole, or inverted bipole be best? Thanks in advance! Room Details 15' wide x 18' long x 8' tall Couch 10' away from TV/main speakers, 7' from back wall Left wall mostly open to dining room, so cannot put speakers to side of couch. Listening Preferences 70% movies, 10% video games, 10% sports, 10% music (classic rock and jazz) No volume constraints, but I tend to prefer clarity and dynamic range over sheer volume (but I do want to feel the bass still) Speaker setup Denon x-2400h B1+ for fronts C2+ center E2+ rears (currently bipole near couch, 1ft above ear level) Thanks for the clarification regarding 5.1 and the surround sound terminology. Glad the E2+ may be better despite Dolby recommendations. Any thoughts on where I should start? For example Bipole setting 1ft behind couch one foot above listener's ear or dipole 6 ft behind? With so many possible spots, heights, and the three setting on the E2+ I'm at a bit of a loss where to start. Thanks again. |
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Post by housetech on Jun 8, 2021 13:22:12 GMT -5
As Keith said 5.1 are SIDE mounting, not rear. The preamp decoding of 5.1 (front center sides) vs 7.1 (front center sides rear) is different.
I used 2 camera tripod stands (jerry-rigged) to test location & heights with direct LCR speakers.
Only you can find the best for your room, it's trial & error because of reflections. There's more to surround sound than many people originally know when starting out with a new system. READ articles. Maybe your room needs B1 and not E2, who knows.
From RSL- Many speaker companies include dipole or bipole surround speakers in their systems. What are they? In a conventional surround speaker, the drivers (woofer and tweeter) are mounted on one board, facing one direction. A dipole or bipole speaker mounts speakers so that the sound emanates from the sides of the speakers. In a bipole speaker, both sides of the speaker push air outward at the exact same time. They are in phase with each other. This can work if the speakers are not positioned to the exact sides of a listener. In a dipole speaker when one side pushes the air, the other side is pulling the air. Or, they are out of phase with each other. This results in a dead zone or null point 90 degrees from the wall, which requires the listener to sit in this area in order to take advantage of the effect.
Both dipole and bipole speakers attempt to spread out the sound in order to create a diffuse ambient effect in the rear of your room. Our philosophy is a bit different. We believe in using the same speakers as your front left and right for surround purposes. With our Compression Guide Technology, the imaging is completely focused and wide. For example, in a movie sound track, if a person is supposed to be speaking in the back right corner, we donât want to hear his voice spread all over the side and back of the room. Just 2 RSL CG4s will create a 3 dimensional surround environment where everything is in its proper place. With CG4s in the back, you will hear elements in sharp focus along the sides of your room and behind even though there are no side speakers. For speakers that do not have this level of performance, the dipole or bipole design may be useful.
Bottom line- position & adjust speakers where they give you the best surround experience, it's a trial & error to your room from my experience.
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Post by 405x5 on Jun 9, 2021 9:44:43 GMT -5
My 5.1 surrounds have been powerfully effective and with the extremely wide dispersion tweeters approx. 17 inches from the 8 foot ceiling, I believe a demo would give some Atmos fans something to ponder.
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Post by Priapulus on Jun 9, 2021 10:15:49 GMT -5
My setup is fairly normal, except my two rear speakers are just in front of the rear wall, and only 2-1/2 and six feet from the sitting position. By facing them backwards, and bouncing off the back wall, I found it defused the directionality enough to please me.
I risk divorce, if I move the seats foreword to were they belong.
Sincerely
/b
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Post by 405x5 on Jun 9, 2021 11:40:20 GMT -5
My setup is fairly normal, except my two rear speakers are just in front of the rear wall, and only 2-1/2 and six feet from the sitting position. By facing them backwards, and bouncing off the back wall, I found it defused the directionality enough to please me. I risk divorce, if I move the seats foreword to were they belong. Sincerely /b Long story shortâŚ.my wife seems all to happy to have me be responsible for furniture and itâs placement. And she loves home theater đ. Match made in Heaven it seems. |
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low
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 5
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Post by low on Jun 9, 2021 19:10:58 GMT -5
As Keith said 5.1 are SIDE mounting, not rear. The preamp decoding of 5.1 (front center sides) vs 7.1 (front center sides rear) is different. I used 2 camera tripod stands (jerry-rigged) to test location & heights with direct LCR speakers. Only you can find the best for your room, it's trial & error because of reflections. There's more to surround sound than many people originally know when starting out with a new system. READ articles. Maybe your room needs B1 and not E2, who knows. From RSL- Many speaker companies include dipole or bipole surround speakers in their systems. What are they? In a conventional surround speaker, the drivers (woofer and tweeter) are mounted on one board, facing one direction. A dipole or bipole speaker mounts speakers so that the sound emanates from the sides of the speakers. In a bipole speaker, both sides of the speaker push air outward at the exact same time. They are in phase with each other. This can work if the speakers are not positioned to the exact sides of a listener. In a dipole speaker when one side pushes the air, the other side is pulling the air. Or, they are out of phase with each other. This results in a dead zone or null point 90 degrees from the wall, which requires the listener to sit in this area in order to take advantage of the effect. Both dipole and bipole speakers attempt to spread out the sound in order to create a diffuse ambient effect in the rear of your room. Our philosophy is a bit different. We believe in using the same speakers as your front left and right for surround purposes. With our Compression Guide Technology, the imaging is completely focused and wide. For example, in a movie sound track, if a person is supposed to be speaking in the back right corner, we donât want to hear his voice spread all over the side and back of the room. Just 2 RSL CG4s will create a 3 dimensional surround environment where everything is in its proper place. With CG4s in the back, you will hear elements in sharp focus along the sides of your room and behind even though there are no side speakers. For speakers that do not have this level of performance, the dipole or bipole design may be useful. Bottom line- position & adjust speakers where they give you the best surround experience, it's a trial & error to your room from my experience. Thanks. I read up on dipoles, but wasn't really understanding why I would want to be in the nullified area. This helps makes a bit of sense. Guess I have a lot of testing to do. |
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