cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Sept 6, 2021 13:20:28 GMT -5
I really don’t care about this review.
Love my XMC-2.
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Post by creimes on Sept 6, 2021 13:25:03 GMT -5
What or how you hear something compared to how it's scientifically measured are two totally different things, if something technically measures good but you don't like how it sounds or something technically measures bad but you do like how it sounds, or what about if it measures good and sounds good or measures bad and sounds bad, the end result is I will only enjoy it if I like how it sounds/performs in my system. +100. Measurements are not the most relevant thing for everyone. I wouldn’t want to imply otherwise. But they are very relevant for many of us Edited: for tone For sure, yet I'm sure some or most of those measurements my ears could not measure anyhow   |
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Post by JKCashin on Sept 6, 2021 13:44:19 GMT -5
I don't know why people think I am trying to denigrate the ASR author. I was ASKING, not accusing. Is he credible. Apparently taking the shortcut of asking "Is this guy a quack?" as opposed to "does this person know what they are talking about" struck some kind of nerve. But yes, to me asking if someone is credible, is better than asking if he is a quack, but that's just how I interpret things. I ran my post past some friends who are agreeing with you, and think my shortcut "is he a quack" was ill chosen. Thanks for taking the time to explain to me how you (and apparently most) are interpreting my words. Wondering if I should leave it or edit my initial post. |
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Post by dsnyder0cnn on Sept 6, 2021 13:56:29 GMT -5
To get back on topic, what I really would like to understand is how did this XMC-2 measure so differently than the RMC-1, assuming all other things were equal. As some have pointed out it would be nice to know what FW version was used in both case so we could know just how "equal" the two batteries of tests were. I find that concerning too. I'm running the v2.3 firmware on my RMC-1L and wonder if it would exhibit the same issues if I sent it to Amir for measurement. While it sounds fine to me, I have constant and incredibly frustrating issues with video sync. I'm not doing anything unusual. 4k LG TV, Amazon FireTV, Nvidia Shield TV Pro, and Kaby Lake Intel NUC, all connected using certified Blue Jeans HDMI cables. Yet I only have about a 50% success rate switching inputs, and video sync takes 15-30 second when it does work. I frequently have to power-cycle the unit to regain control. If I pause a movie for more than a few minutes, I lose video sync, requiring another power-cycle. I've owned the original UMC-1 pre/pro, the XMC-1, and now the RMC-1L. Every time I buy another Emotiva pre/pro, I swear it will be the last. I want Emotiva to succeed, but they have to do better. Hopefully, they will earnestly work with Amir to improve objective performance. I'd love to see them buy their own Audio Precision analyzer and use it to make better products the way Schiit Audio has done after working with Amir. But, more than that, I'd love for them to find a way to make an AV processor that is not a nightmare to use. |
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Post by dsnyder0cnn on Sept 6, 2021 14:12:24 GMT -5
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sealman
Minor Hero
You shouldn't have decorated your saloon with my friend!
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Post by sealman on Sept 6, 2021 14:49:48 GMT -5
To get back on topic, what I really would like to understand is how did this XMC-2 measure so differently than the RMC-1, assuming all other things were equal. As some have pointed out it would be nice to know what FW version was used in both case so we could know just how "equal" the two batteries of tests were. While it sounds fine to me, I have constant and incredibly frustrating issues with video sync. I'm not doing anything unusual. 4k LG TV, Amazon FireTV, Nvidia Shield TV Pro, and Kaby Lake Intel NUC, all connected using certified Blue Jeans HDMI cables. Yet I only have about a 50% success rate switching inputs, and video sync takes 15-30 second when it does work. I frequently have to power-cycle the unit to regain control. If I pause a movie for more than a few minutes, I lose video sync, requiring another power-cycle. 15-30 seconds is ridiculous! I have the XMC-2 and my video sync is around 8 seconds with FW 2.3. I very rarely have it fail to make a connection anymore. Back before the 2.??'s firmware versions were released it could be as long as 15 seconds. I had major issues with making a connection with my Nvidia Shield up until FW 2.2. I have yet had to power cycle my XMC-2 with 2.3, (knock on wood) . EDIT I also have a Denon X4000. The video sync time for it is around 2-3 seconds with the audio lagging an additional second. The audio lag for all firmware versions for my XMC-2 is around an additional 2-5 seconds after the video locks in. |
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Chris
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Post by Chris on Sept 6, 2021 15:20:48 GMT -5
Just so we can put this variable to bed, Amir at ASR has posted the following: linkSo it would appear the XMC-2 firmware he tested was current. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 6, 2021 16:45:47 GMT -5
Just so we can put this variable to bed, Amir at ASR has posted the following: linkSo it would appear the XMC-2 firmware he tested was current. It would save a lot of discussion, and add to his credibility, if he made sure that any component being tested was on the latest firmware, and list what that is. ( edit: or state why if he didn’t) It would be interesting to know if a current RMC would measure the same, but doubt that will happen. I think measurements are necessary, and should be available, given none from Emotiva, this is what we have. Edit: Just read the rest of the current thread over there, unfortunately among the well reasoned comments, there are a lot of trolls who have nothing useful to add, but want to cheer on a bad review and think they know better. These seem to be the times we are in. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2021 17:52:03 GMT -5
What or how you hear something compared to how it's scientifically measured are two totally different things, if something technically measures good but you don't like how it sounds or something technically measures bad but you do like how it sounds, or what about if it measures good and sounds good or measures bad and sounds bad, the end result is I will only enjoy it if I like how it sounds/performs in my system. Consider same argument pertaining to in room system measurements. I have never heard a system that measured horribly sound great but I've heard systems in room that measured great yet not my cup of tea. In other words there was a house, target, or signature sound I did not prefer. Please don't request that I break this down to the level of a four year old's comprehension 😁 |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Sept 6, 2021 19:08:40 GMT -5
The reason ASR is a joke is not because of the cult mentality but because the site refuses to discuss or reveal their measurement techniques or test conditions so they might be repeated in a bonafied lab situation, the site simply lists test equipment used and a "trust me, I used to work for Microsoft" attitude. I used to work for THX, Sony and Blaupunkt, but even if I wanted to brag about that experience and purchase an Audio Precision tester and go into business attacking equipment on the Internet, I would not. Because I have integrity. Let's see. Amir measured the Okto DAC Stereo 8 here (https://www.oktoresearch.com/dac8stereo.htm) and over at Stereophile JA measured the same DAC here (https://www.stereophile.com/content/okto-dac8-stereo-da-processor). Both Amir and JA indicated the Okto DAC measured superbly. If you read the measurements in each review you will see that they are indentical, INDENTICAL!! (My Cousin Vinny reference)  . So who's the joke? Amir? JA? You? Amir is cleary consistent in how he measures. He's done so consistently for thousands of units. And, as indicated by others here, he's consulted with and helped Schiit and Emotiva with improving poor measurements and / or helped them in their use of the APX. Others on the ASR site, most of whom are extremely technically grounded, have challenged him, duplicated his measurements, requested additional measurements, etc.. In addition to all the measurements, he's destroying audiophile and computer audiophile (the worst) snake oil. See here for an " audiophile" power filter (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/puritan-audio-psm156-review-ac-filter.26136/). See here for an " audiophile"ethernet regenerator (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-audio-etherregen-switch-review.10232/) and here for an " audiophile" network switch (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/silent-angel-bonn-n8-audio-grade-ethernet-switch.12360/). Many more examples of useless BS are available. So when YOU host a website with thousands of followers and help major manufacturers with product improvements, then you can call someone a joke. Until then, listen to your mommy and say nothing when you have nothing good to say. Russ |
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cawgijoe
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"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Sept 6, 2021 20:39:59 GMT -5
Whenever ASR or Amir is brought up this this site (and probably others), it never ends well.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 6, 2021 20:43:20 GMT -5
Whatever dude. You're a fan go for it. Me, I'll stick to reality with people who know what they are talking about. |
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Post by rbk123 on Sept 6, 2021 20:44:10 GMT -5
I have never heard a system that measured horribly sound great Sure you have - they're called tubes. Nothing wrong with Amir's review; it's just as valid as any other reviewers out there, but you can't compare them because he measures and doesn't listen, while the other reviewers listen and don't measure. His review is just one more data point to be included in all your data when you're researching and trying to decide on a product. That lag/slowness on the input is something a lot of people have experienced, especially in the RMC's early days. No one seems to have had that problem for quite some time, though, so that seems odd. I think Keith mentioned it was something getting confused requiring a reboot to fix, but I could be wrong. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 6, 2021 20:53:09 GMT -5
Anyone who measures but doesn't listen is what we used to call a "measurebator."
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 6, 2021 21:02:06 GMT -5
Whenever ASR or Amir is brought up this this site (and probably others), it never ends well. I disagree, there are significant improvements in the G3P because ASR tested one, now two. You can’t consider someone who measures your product the enemy, you have to let your work speak for itself. If it fails in a way that everyone agrees is bad, you should figure out why and let everyone know. Then fix it if you can. |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Sept 6, 2021 21:57:25 GMT -5
Whatever dude. You're a fan go for it. Me, I'll stick to reality with people who know what they are talking about. What an intelligent response. 👎 I gave you an example of Amir’s ability by matching it to JA’s and you bail. Probably a reflection of all your posts on this site which I guess should be ignored by everyone. Russ |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2021 22:05:21 GMT -5
Whatever dude. You're a fan go for it. Me, I'll stick to reality with people who know what they are talking about. What an intelligent response. 👎 I gave you an example of Amir’s ability by matching it to JA’s and you bail. Probably a reflection of all your posts on this site which I guess should be ignored by everyone. Russ In your profile privacy settings there's a block feature that works pretty well for creating an echo chamber some call reality. |
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cawgijoe
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"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Sept 6, 2021 22:18:28 GMT -5
Whenever ASR or Amir is brought up this this site (and probably others), it never ends well. I disagree, there are significant improvements in the G3P because ASR tested one, now two. You can’t consider someone who measures your product the enemy, you have to let your work speak for itself. If it fails in a way that everyone agrees is bad, you should figure out why and let everyone know. Then fix it if you can. Never said he was “my enemy”. Is it really a failure in Emotiva’s product? Is it a one sample failure? Should he be sent and test multiple samples? Is his test equipment calibrated? Why does it seem that I don’t read about these problems in mainstream audio magazines? Are the reviewers of these sources incompetent? Does their equipment not work? Is it suspect? Lots of questions. Why don’t other magazines or reviewers use the same testing equipment or processes? I really don’t know the answer. Based on this ASR review, is my product a piece of junk? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2021 22:22:04 GMT -5
The reason ASR is a joke is not because of the cult mentality but because the site refuses to discuss or reveal their measurement techniques or test conditions so they might be repeated in a bonafied lab situation, the site simply lists test equipment used and a "trust me, I used to work for Microsoft" attitude. I used to work for THX, Sony and Blaupunkt, but even if I wanted to brag about that experience and purchase an Audio Precision tester and go into business attacking equipment on the Internet, I would not. Because I have integrity. ROFL If Amir won't reveal his scientific process so that it can be peer reviewed then that's a legitimate criticism. Anyone want to contact Amir and ask him? As for your integrity DYohn I find your post "rebellious" enough that I can't see anything technically credible in them. Your posts are always snarky, arrogant and boasting yet I fail to see any merit. By the way, thanks for giving me a chuckle about "attacking" equipment. Inanimate objects have feelings ya know! Here's a tissue.... |
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LCSeminole
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Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on Sept 7, 2021 0:12:27 GMT -5
I initially moved this discussion from the firmware thread because it needed to be a subject on its own. Also the volatile nature, see the previous ASR: RMC-1 thread, of the posts as well as what always follows with the personal back and forth and we get this with only three pages of content. Thread locked for now, until or if Emotiva feels it necessary to unlock for further discussion. Don’t bother PM’ing me about your disagreement in my decision. Respectful and civil adult discussion is all it takes, obviously many of you still can’t play nice with one another. If another thread on this subject opens, it will be deleted and the OP will be banned from the Lounge. You only have yourselves to blame on these actions. Have a good night.  |
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. So who's the joke? Amir? JA? You?
