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Post by thezone on Jan 14, 2022 0:30:36 GMT -5
Heyall,
I'm thinking of getting one of these, not just because the XMC-2 is crap at hdmi switching and still no eARC functionality, but my new Sony TV is also being a *bleep* thanks to its new Google TV interface.
So which one of these do I need? Maestro, Vertex2 or Diva? Is anyone using these? Can you give me some ideas how I can integrate one with my gear? I have a TV, ATV4K, Nvidia Shield, cable box and XMC-2.
Cheers
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Post by bitzerjdb on Jan 14, 2022 8:06:47 GMT -5
You can go with the Vertex2 or the new Vrroom. The Vertex2 is an older more stable unit, the Vrroom supports 8K and was just released. If you want to try out something on the cheap, they also recommend the Roofull switches (available on Amazon) for people who need more ports (daisy chaining the units).
On my RMC-1L, I simply feed it with the Audio Out HDMI port from the switch. What I give up is the OSD from the RMC. Check out the HDFury Discord channel and you can see a very active support group.
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Post by thezone on Jan 16, 2022 3:26:41 GMT -5
You can go with the Vertex2 or the new Vrroom. The Vertex2 is an older more stable unit, the Vrroom supports 8K and was just released. If you want to try out something on the cheap, they also recommend the Roofull switches (available on Amazon) for people who need more ports (daisy chaining the units). On my RMC-1L, I simply feed it with the Audio Out HDMI port from the switch. What I give up is the OSD from the RMC. Check out the HDFury Discord channel and you can see a very active support group. Ok thanks for that will check it out. I was wondering about losing my XMC-2 OSD which feeds my OCD about what formats are playing through. |
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Post by bitzerjdb on Jan 16, 2022 9:22:14 GMT -5
I do miss that feature, however not having to deal with the HDMI sync issues anymore far outweighs the loss. Being away from home and getting a call that the TV is not working is a PITA. My wife is semi-handicapped so having her get down on her knees to do a reset is not happening.
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Post by mgbpuff on Jan 16, 2022 10:40:49 GMT -5
I have the Diva. The difference between the Diva and the Vertex 2 is that the Diva supports one 4K video out and one 1080p video out while the Vertex2 supports two 4K video outs (but can downgrade to 1080p). Both have separate sound only HDMIs to go to your prepro input. To get around losing your prepro OSD, 1)simply run a prepro output to another input on your tv; or 2) Since you have both a 4K tv and a 4K propro, simply run the propro output to your tv and use the HDfury device as an auto switcher only. The Diva and Vertex2 auto switch among 4 inputs and this works very well, so you only need to use one input on your prepro. Your best solution for your wife would be to integrate your entire A/V system with Alexa with a Harmony hub. I have this and can simply give a verbal command instead of operating the remote. Lastly, if auto switching is all you need, then cheaper auto switchers are available.
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Post by recluce on Jan 16, 2022 18:17:02 GMT -5
Don't forget that the Vertex2 (also Diva and Vroom) make your HDR10 Display Dolby Vision capable (Low Latency Dolby Vision, LLDV). I plan to use the HDFury Device mainly for this. Nvidia Shield Pro and Apple TV 4k are examples that allow LLDV this way.
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Post by bitzerjdb on Jan 17, 2022 8:55:28 GMT -5
You can go with the Vertex2 or the new Vrroom. The Vertex2 is an older more stable unit, the Vrroom supports 8K and was just released. If you want to try out something on the cheap, they also recommend the Roofull switches (available on Amazon) for people who need more ports (daisy chaining the units). On my RMC-1L, I simply feed it with the Audio Out HDMI port from the switch. What I give up is the OSD from the RMC. Check out the HDFury Discord channel and you can see a very active support group. Ok thanks for that will check it out. I was wondering about losing my XMC-2 OSD which feeds my OCD about what formats are playing through. You can always put the output from the HDfury device into the Input on the XMC/RMC and from there go to the TV. This would allow you to see see the OSD information from Emotiva, but you then have their Switch in the video path and will need to deal with any sync issues it might have. The whole reason I went down the HDfury rabbit hole was to remove their switch from doing any Video work. |
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Post by msimanyi on Jan 17, 2022 17:58:28 GMT -5
Also, the Emotiva remote app on your phone or pad/tablet will display all the info that would normally display on the OSD, so that's an easy way to give up the OSD without losing all that great info.
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Post by thezone on Jan 18, 2022 2:12:26 GMT -5
Ok thanks for that will check it out. I was wondering about losing my XMC-2 OSD which feeds my OCD about what formats are playing through. You can always put the output from the HDfury device into the Input on the XMC/RMC and from there go to the TV. This would allow you to see see the OSD information from Emotiva, but you then have their Switch in the video path and will need to deal with any sync issues it might have. The whole reason I went down the HDfury rabbit hole was to remove their switch from doing any Video work. Certainly an interesting thought but yes this may not alleviate the switching issues and would still not enable e/arc from the TV as it would be connected to the XMC-2 and not the HDFury, or even arc which still doesn't work for me. |
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Post by thezone on Jan 18, 2022 2:13:56 GMT -5
Also, the Emotiva remote app on your phone or pad/tablet will display all the info that would normally display on the OSD, so that's an easy way to give up the OSD without losing all that great info. Ah I haven't even tried this app yet, thanks for reminding me! Are there any instructions on how to use this app? |
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Post by bitzerjdb on Jan 18, 2022 9:17:25 GMT -5
You can always put the output from the HDfury device into the Input on the XMC/RMC and from there go to the TV. This would allow you to see see the OSD information from Emotiva, but you then have their Switch in the video path and will need to deal with any sync issues it might have. The whole reason I went down the HDfury rabbit hole was to remove their switch from doing any Video work. Certainly an interesting thought but yes this may not alleviate the switching issues and would still not enable e/arc from the TV as it would be connected to the XMC-2 and not the HDFury, or even arc which still doesn't work for me. I'm currently using a Vertex2 and the Arcana unit. The Arcana was added to remove the sound delay on the Sonos ARC. With this combo, the Sound/Video is in perfect sync, and ARC works 100% of the time. The Audio out on the Vertex2 feeds the RMC-1L and it is extremely "happy" not having to do any of the Video heavy lifting. The Vrroom is the combo of the Vertex2 Plus the Arcana, Plus 8K and VRR. There is still an issue with certain Sony TV's (mine being one of them) where CEC commands are not being sent. It works fine on the Vertex2 and the Arcana (on Firmware 82 or 83). And with everything in life, nothing is perfect. I need to reset the Arcana once every few weeks. My solution was adding a simple Wifi plug to the unit and creating a Google Home routine for the Reboot. If it happens, my wife simply has to say "Hey Google, Activate Fix" The symptom is that when the system is turned on, there is no picture or sound on the TV. I'm very happy with this solution (HDfury) and it makes switching to another processor very simple in the future. The family is happy because the system now just works. Good Luck! |
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Post by housetech on Jan 18, 2022 11:38:20 GMT -5
What does it say when buyers have to spend $800 extra to make Emotiva pre/pro work with HDMI?!
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Post by bitzerjdb on Jan 18, 2022 13:55:22 GMT -5
What does it say when buyers have to spend $800 extra to make Emotiva pre/pro work with HDMI?! You don't have to spend $800, you can use a Roofull switch for <$50 (from Amazon) and do the same thing (bypass the Internal Switch). The HDfury stuff is expensive, but it allows you to do many other things vs a simple HDMI switch. |
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Post by thezone on Jan 19, 2022 1:25:19 GMT -5
What does it say when buyers have to spend $800 extra to make Emotiva pre/pro work with HDMI?! I agree in part, but to be fair I think that all of my HDMI devices are not playing nice with each other, my brand new Sony OLED doesn't want to power on to a specific HDMI input instead it boots up to the Google TV first and then doesnt seem to want to accept the HDMI input command from the harmony, no matter how much power on delay I put in to the harmony it doesn't seem to want to change to a HDMI input after boot up, even 30 seconds! And with the harmony, there is no way to add an HDMI input command for my Sony OLED to the start up procedure, I can only do it by assigning the HDMI input manually to a button on the LCD screen. So in short, after I boot up my Watch ATV4K activity, I have to send both a HDMI input command to my Sony TV and then a HDMI input command for my XMC-2. And I have tried all different combinations of CEC/Arc to try and get them to trigger each other but it just ends up in a worse mess. You can imagine how well this goes down with the Mrs. |
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Post by doc1963 on Jan 19, 2022 6:46:32 GMT -5
What does it say when buyers have to spend $800 extra to make Emotiva pre/pro work with HDMI?! I agree in part, but to be fair I think that all of my HDMI devices are not playing nice with each other, my brand new Sony OLED doesn't want to power on to a specific HDMI input instead it boots up to the Google TV first and then doesnt seem to want to accept the HDMI input command from the harmony, no matter how much power on delay I put in to the harmony it doesn't seem to want to change to a HDMI input after boot up, even 30 seconds! And with the harmony, there is no way to add an HDMI input command for my Sony OLED to the start up procedure, I can only do it by assigning the HDMI input manually to a button on the LCD screen. So in short, after I boot up my Watch ATV4K activity, I have to send both a HDMI input command to my Sony TV and then a HDMI input command for my XMC-2. And I have tried all different combinations of CEC/Arc to try and get them to trigger each other but it just ends up in a worse mess. You can imagine how well this goes down with the Mrs. I’ll take it a step further… the 8K Vroom is $549 (not $800). How much do we think Emotiva’s HDMI 2.1 board will be…? My bet is that it will be about the same out of pocket cost. Unlike a purpose built HDMI board upgrade, the Vroom will become a permanent part of your system regardless of whatever AVP, AVR, display device or source components you use today, or in the future. And for about the same cost of Emotiva’s upgraded HDMI board, the Vroom can potentially solve HDMI related problems rather than cause them. If you don’t need HDMI 2.1 capabilities (or the more advanced features of the Vroom), you can save yourself $100 and buy a Vertex2 ($449). If I had an immediate need for this type of product, I’d have no problem spending the money and consider it an investment. However, housetech brings a very legitimate point which I, too, happen to agree with…  EDIT: To address your immediate problem, the startup issues with your TV has everything to do with the AndroidTV OS, not HDMI in general. No HDFury product can help you with that. I’m surprised that Sony doesn’t have a “direct input” selection that’s accessible in Harmony’s database. Although my LG OLEDs employ LG’s “WebOS” smart TV platform, I do have direct HDMI input access that’s fully accessible via my Harmony’s programming. They don’t boot directly into a visible Home Screen. You have to press the “Home” button to access the Smart TV apps. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Jan 19, 2022 8:18:30 GMT -5
I agree in part, but to be fair I think that all of my HDMI devices are not playing nice with each other, my brand new Sony OLED doesn't want to power on to a specific HDMI input instead it boots up to the Google TV first and then doesnt seem to want to accept the HDMI input command from the harmony, no matter how much power on delay I put in to the harmony it doesn't seem to want to change to a HDMI input after boot up, even 30 seconds! And with the harmony, there is no way to add an HDMI input command for my Sony OLED to the start up procedure, I can only do it by assigning the HDMI input manually to a button on the LCD screen. So in short, after I boot up my Watch ATV4K activity, I have to send both a HDMI input command to my Sony TV and then a HDMI input command for my XMC-2. And I have tried all different combinations of CEC/Arc to try and get them to trigger each other but it just ends up in a worse mess. You can imagine how well this goes down with the Mrs. I’ll take it a step further… the 8K Vroom is $549 (not $800). How much do we think Emotiva’s HDMI 2.1 board will be…? My bet is that it will be about the same out of pocket cost. Unlike a purpose built HDMI board upgrade, the Vroom will become a permanent part of your system regardless of whatever AVP, AVR, display device or source components you use today, or in the future. And for about the same cost of Emotiva’s upgraded HDMI board, the Vroom can potentially solve HDMI related problems rather than cause them. If you don’t need HDMI 2.1 capabilities (or the more advanced features of the Vroom), you can save yourself $100 and buy a Vertex2 ($449). If I had an immediate need for this type of product, I’d have no problem spending the money and consider it an investment. However, housetech brings a very legitimate point which I, too, happen to agree with… EDIT: To address your immediate problem, the startup issues with your TV has everything to do with the AndroidTV OS, not HDMI in general. No HDFury product can help you with that. I’m surprised that Sony doesn’t have a “direct input” selection that’s accessible in Harmony’s database. Although my LG OLEDs employ LG’s “WebOS” smart TV platform, I do have direct HDMI input access that’s fully accessible via my Harmony’s programming. They don’t boot directly into a visible Home Screen. You have to press the “Home” button to access the Smart TV apps. I had planned to purchase the 2.1 board when it comes out, but now you have me thinking that maybe the Vroom would be a better investment. What are the plusses and minuses? How is the Vroom connected? I don't have any issues with my current setup, but "future-proofing" is always on my mind. |
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Post by doc1963 on Jan 19, 2022 9:55:48 GMT -5
I had planned to purchase the 2.1 board when it comes out, but now you have me thinking that maybe the Vroom would be a better investment. What are the plusses and minuses? How is the Vroom connected? I don't have any issues with my current setup, but "future-proofing" is always on my mind. I don't own one, at least not yet, but could offhandedly say that the "pluses" are numerous (full independent EDID control, no issues with ARC/eARC, full CEC control, programmable auto-switching, DV support on non-DV displays, etc...) and the only "minus" would be the fact that you will lose the OSD from your processor. However, the Vroom can be configured to show it's own OSD if you're only interested in seeing the A/V signal information. Accessing the AVP menu system would have to be done offline. The Vroom (or Vertex2) connects just like any outboard HDMI switch. Your sources (up to 4) connect directly to the device (you can add an external switch if more are need or connect them directly to the display and use ARC or eARC to send the audio back). The Vroom would connect directly to your display and use a dedicated "HDMI Audio Out" to pass the audio to your AVP or AVR. That would be the same concept as having split A/V HDMI outputs on most current 4K UHD Blu-ray players. For $549, you're 8K (HDMI2.1) compatible straight out of the box without having to do a thing to your processor or worry about what "new" headaches a new board might bring. Best of all, HDFury's support seems to be stellar and their products are top of the line. I'm fairly confident LCSeminole uses a Vertex2 (which is the 4K sibling to the Vroom) and can chime in with actual user experience... EDIT: I should add, however, that gaining access to all of the "wonders" that these devices can do will require some education. Specifically if you want to get into EDID manipulation. Without gaining that knowledge first, you can just as easily make a bad situation even worse. Just like with anything else, that knowledge is gained through experience and/or through seeking advice from the knowledgeable who've been there before you. These devices can be intimidating, but can make your HDMI troubles go away if you want to dedicate the time to really learn the product. But that's also not to say that the product can't help you straight out of the box... |
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Post by bitzerjdb on Jan 19, 2022 10:12:49 GMT -5
I own both :-)
One of the reasons I went with Emotiva was that it allowed me to use the Internal HDMI switch while in Standby mode. With the XMC-1 it worked perfectly. The 4K board in the XMC-1 and now in the RMC-1l has been a challenge. With the Vertex2 or Vrroom, I can play with the HDMI stream at each input allowing me to "fix" issues that exist. I have a Tivo that absolutely refuses to sync with the Emotiva board and it works perfectly with the Vertex2. In fairness, it also worked with the Cheap Amazon HDMI switch. My take was that HDMI is a moving target and having something in the middle, supported by a team that specializes with HDMI was a win-win for me. My RMC is perfectly happy getting an Audio Only feed.
The downsides are...more equipment...more complexity, and no OSD. But, I've found that not having the OSD is actually a benefit when I want to change the volume a little during a movie and there isn't a popup to distract others.
I also needed the Arcana to deal with the Audio Sync issues inherent with soundbars.
I'm not bashing Emotiva, but I don't believe that HDMI is their strong suit and the 2.1 board will probably introduce a whole new set of issues.
What I would absolutely love to see is them partner with someone like HDfury and have them design the board... Vrroom for Emotiva! That would be sweet!!!!
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Jan 19, 2022 10:51:29 GMT -5
I own both :-) One of the reasons I went with Emotiva was that it allowed me to use the Internal HDMI switch while in Standby mode. With the XMC-1 it worked perfectly. The 4K board in the XMC-1 and now in the RMC-1l has been a challenge. With the Vertex2 or Vrroom, I can play with the HDMI stream at each input allowing me to "fix" issues that exist. I have a Tivo that absolutely refuses to sync with the Emotiva board and it works perfectly with the Vertex2. In fairness, it also worked with the Cheap Amazon HDMI switch. My take was that HDMI is a moving target and having something in the middle, supported by a team that specializes with HDMI was a win-win for me. My RMC is perfectly happy getting an Audio Only feed. The downsides are...more equipment...more complexity, and no OSD. But, I've found that not having the OSD is actually a benefit when I want to change the volume a little during a movie and there isn't a popup to distract others. I also needed the Arcana to deal with the Audio Sync issues inherent with soundbars. I'm not bashing Emotiva, but I don't believe that HDMI is their strong suit and the 2.1 board will probably introduce a whole new set of issues. What I would absolutely love to see is them partner with someone like HDfury and have them design the board... Vrroom for Emotiva! That would be sweet!!!! Thanks for the response. It's nice to hear from someone who is using these products. I don't really have any issues with my XMC-2 and my current equipment. My Directv HR-44 and Apple TV4K (latest version), Oppo 203 and Samsung TV play nicely together. I plan to hold onto the XMC-2 for quite awhile so upgrading to 2.1 is something that interests me. When I had my XMC-1 I upgraded the board and except for some initial sound syncing issues that we all had, (fixed via firmware update), it worked great. Easy at home install. I like the idea of keeping the OSD and having fewer boxes. But I've also always been intriqued with HD Fury and their products. I am also worried about adding "complication" into the mix especially with my wife. The less complicated, the better. As to Emotiva and HDMI, it's hard to say whether it's because they are not experts in the field or if it's due to the chosen chip set, or something else that may cause issues. Without hearing directly from them, it's speculation. I do really like the idea of "integrating" HDfury into their processors (if that's even possible), or at least collaborating with them in design. |
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Post by doc1963 on Jan 19, 2022 11:25:34 GMT -5
As to Emotiva and HDMI, it's hard to say whether it's because they are not experts in the field or if it's due to the chosen chip set, or something else that may cause issues. Without hearing directly from them, it's speculation... I'll offer this... Emotiva uses the same Panasonic HDMI switches (MN864788) as Sound United. Sound United has been using this chipset for years (as have other manufacturers). I have had no HDMI problems whatsoever with my Marantz AV8805 and had no problems with the AV7703 that I owned before it. Honestly, I haven't had many problems with my RMC-1L, but that's not to say that it is as fluid, or rock-solid, as my 8805 or 7703. The difference here is that SU has a massive engineering and development team whereas Emotiva does not. I'm not sure who does their coding, but it's obvious that it's not done in-house. Sadly, the software that is running an otherwise fine piece of kit is also the loose brick that always brings the house down. Oddly enough, it's also the same HDMI chipset that is used in the MC-1. So, if the chipset was a bad choice, that wouldn't bode well for a brand new product. I think you see where I'm going here... |
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