Tuners

[Dreamer]

I currently have the RMC-1L and live within the range of just about all Kansas city FM stations. Soon I will live another hour away from K.C. (2 hours away). I was looking at buying a Magnum Dynalab ft-101A analog FM tuner. Would this purchase be an enhancement or is the tuner section of the RMC-1L already equal or superior?

[AudioHTIT]

Will you have an outdoor antenna? That would be my first priority if reception is your concern. I’d get the RMC setup in the new place and see what you get first. If it’s reception and sound quality, then the Magnum Dynalab will probably be superior, I don’t think there’s anything special about the RMC’s tuner, though when I listen to FM it sounds fine to me (w/antenna).

[donh50]

I do not know how the Magnum compares to the RMC-1, sorry, but you might want to look at the Tuner Information Center (https://fmtunerinfo.com/index.html, and fmtunerinfo.com/reviewsM-N.html for Magnum) to read about it and other tuners. The Magnum was a good but not necessarily great tuner compared to its competition. It had fairly good sensitivity and fairly high selectivity. It was also a fairly popular tuner to mod IIRC (been a while).

I could not find any specs for the tuner (or much else) in the RMC-1's user manual so no idea how it might compare. I would guess the Magnum is superior for sensitivity and such. The RMC-1's audio section (or virtually any AVR/AVP these days) will not limit the (any) tuner's audio performance.

Assuming two hours is >100 miles away you'll probably want an outdoor FM antenna no matter the tuner.

HTH - Don

Edit: This does remind me I need to pull my old Yamaha T-1 out since my current AVP does not include a tuner. Of course, It's been over a year, and I have not missed it yet, so... I have gotten by with various streaming stations through my SONOS Connect the rare times I needed to listen to a radio station.

[cawgijoe]

Feb 4, 2022 21:22:47 GMT -5 AudioHTIT said:

Will you have an outdoor antenna? That would be my first priority if reception is your concern. I’d get the VHF RMC setup in the new place and see what you get first. If it’s reception and sound quality, then the Magnum Dynalab will probably be superior, I don’t think there’s anything special about the RMC’s tuner, though when I listen to FM it sounds fine to me (w/antenna).

My XMC-2 is connected to my outdoor, rooftop Winegard TV antenna and it sounds great. I would try the built in tuner first.

[405x5]

You guys who can enjoy analog FM are lucky!
Without the digital domain I would be dead in the water.
I live in New York where New York City was once the entertainment capital of the world I think……(no more)
….And I picked up plenty in the old days with my Phase 5000 Tuner. Still I had to contend with much multi path interference and that got bad when I moved another 30 miles north, putting me 50 miles out of Manhattan.
I’m in a beautiful home but in a “ditch” so far as FM is concerned.
I tried everything over the years and had pretty good luck with a dedicated roof mount antenna equipped with a rotor.
Now in my newest place I’m dead….ONE Local Bubble gum station no matter what I do.

[jbrunwa]

If I were to use a separate tuner I would buy the Sangean HDT-20 HD Radio/FM-Stereo/AM Component Tuner. I have several portable Sangean radios and their performance is top notch.

www.sangean.com/products/product.asp?mid=198&cid=3

[Dreamer]

Feb 5, 2022 12:23:00 GMT -5 jbrunwa said:

If I were to use a separate tuner I would buy the Sangean HDT-20 HD Radio/FM-Stereo/AM Component Tuner. I have several portable Sangean radios and their performance is top notch.

www.sangean.com/products/product.asp?mid=198&cid=3

I just happen to already have the Sangean HDT-20 HD Radio. I bought it because my old Denon Flagship had HD Radio and I missed not having it. Thanks to all of you that lent your thoughts on this. I also already own an Omnidirectional antenna that will be tested after the move. (Currently not in use) One of the things I am looking forward to is hopefully being able to (with the right equipment) tune in faraway stations due to the lack of miscellaneous urban airwave pollution.  

[donh50]

Higher selectivity in a tuner helps in a dense environment, and/or when you are trying to pull in a weak station near (in frequency) a stronger (or closer) one. To pull in far away stations you may want to try a directional antenna with as many elements as you can afford/desire and a rotator to point it where it needs to be (if more than one direction). Masking and selectivity matters in a tuner, of course, but you also need enough gain from the antenna and front end (along with high enough sensitivity and low enough noise floor) to acquire those far-away stations.

By all means, hook up that HDT-20 and omni antenna and try first! Maybe, hopefully, that's all you need. - Don

[creimes]

I found a Sherbourn T100 tuner back in 2015 and ended up never using it and sold it, look it up as it's a really cool tuner where you can mount the one box in a better location and then run cat5 from it to the other box that connects either XLR or RCA

[housetech]

Almost all radio stations are streamed today. Tune-In, iHeart radio and others sound much better than OTA, besides having higher, cleaner input signal to the preamp.
I listen to AM stations that sound GREAT.

I would prefer Emotiva drop the tuner and install networking ability.

[cawgijoe]

Feb 17, 2022 12:34:39 GMT -5 housetech said:

Almost all radio stations are streamed today. Tune-In, iHeart radio and others sound much better than OTA, besides having higher, cleaner input signal to the preamp.

I would prefer Emotiva drop the tuner and install networking ability.

Thats fine until your internet goes out and you want to listen....could be rare, but it does happen.

I prefer to have a separate box for internet radio and a built in tuner for OTA. How about adding the capability for HD Radio?

Edit: I know many people don't listen to OTA radio these days, but I find it fun and another thing to play with. I was disappointed that HD Radio capability was not added to the built in tuner.

[leonski]

I just WISH there was more to actually listen to on FM these days. The Peak? what? 10 years? or 20 years ago?

These days? How about a Sirius or XM tuner connected to your stereo?

I see BEST has one for 130$, the most expensive. RCA out, not any digital.....And TINY so it'll fit anywhere.

I don't know aout antennas.......

A middle ground between btoadcast and internet, maybe?

[405x5]

Feb 17, 2022 15:13:33 GMT -5 leonski said:

I just WISH there was more to actually listen to on FM these days. The Peak? what? 10 years? or 20 years ago?

These days? How about a Sirius or XM tuner connected to your stereo?

I see BEST has one for 130$, the most expensive. RCA out, not any digital.....And TINY so it'll fit anywhere.

I don't know aout antennas.......

A middle ground between btoadcast and internet, maybe?

I agree with you 100 percent on this one ☝️.
FM is DEAD ☠️ and has been for a long time, even longer than you mentioned.

[cawgijoe]

Feb 18, 2022 9:06:36 GMT -5 405x5 said:

Feb 17, 2022 15:13:33 GMT -5 leonski said:

I just WISH there was more to actually listen to on FM these days. The Peak? what? 10 years? or 20 years ago?

These days? How about a Sirius or XM tuner connected to your stereo?

I see BEST has one for 130$, the most expensive. RCA out, not any digital.....And TINY so it'll fit anywhere.

I don't know aout antennas.......

A middle ground between btoadcast and internet, maybe?

I agree with you 100 percent on this one ☝️.
FM is DEAD ☠️ and has been for a long time, even longer than you mentioned.

It's not quite dead depending on where you live. Some locations have better broadcasting than others, of course. I have access to XM radio over Directv as well as their app and it works well and sounds surprisingly good. I also have a Bluesound Node streamer that is fantastic.

I also have Apple Music.

Lots of choices, however I still use the FM OTA tuner. It always works. Directv could go down....the internet can go out....but my OTA TV and FM are always there.

It's nice to have options.

[405x5]

Feb 18, 2022 9:31:57 GMT -5 cawgijoe said:

Feb 18, 2022 9:06:36 GMT -5 405x5 said:

I agree with you 100 percent on this one ☝️.
FM is DEAD ☠️ and has been for a long time, even longer than you mentioned.

It's not quite dead depending on where you live. Some locations have better broadcasting than others, of course. I have access to XM radio over Directv as well as their app and it works well and sounds surprisingly good. I also have a Bluesound Node streamer that is fantastic.

I also have Apple Music.

Lots of choices, however I still use the FM OTA tuner. It always works. Directv could go down....the internet can go out....but my OTA TV and FM are always there.

It's nice to have options.

Yes…I know I’m a bit over the top on this one, but that’s what happens when you’re a “fringe area” guy who gets beat up by the Local Bubble gum station, who’s very powerful transmitter (that I live under) kills everything I would like to hear if I could!
It’s been that way for me since 1981, which is ample time to become somewhat jaded. Thank goodness for digital, in all its forms.

[selind40]

I've been using a Carver TX-11a for about 20 years...it's been rock solid. I listen to AM talk radio half the day and FM later at night, I slip in some vinyl every once and awhile. Good luck in the search for a good Tuner.

[KeithL]

I'm just going to throw in a few bits and pieces here...

1)

I agree that, for the most part, FM is dead. But, to be fair, I NEVER liked it very much...both because of the audio quality on most stations and because none of them would consistently play stuff I wanted to hear. And, by my reckoning, the content has gotten far worse. There is a local station I listen to in the car on the way to work. And they even play music I like...  but over, and over, and OVER again. (It's obvious they program a playlist, allow it to random repeat for a week or so, then pick a new one.)

2)

I tried SiriusXM radio in the car for a while... and I actually enjoyed the way they presented content... up until I'd heard the entire playlists on all of the four or five channels I enjoyed.

And, to be quite blunt, I found the audio quality to be audibly inferior - SIGNIFICANTLY inferior.

3)

If you're determined to listen to FM and have stations to listen to...

Find an old tuner with really good selectivity... both alternate channel and adjacent channel.

(But note that modern "chip" tuners, like the ones we include in our processors, aren't actually all that bad in terms of reception, and the sound quality is actually very good.)

ADJACENT CHANNEL SELECTIVITY is not often specified, and is going to be far lower than alternate channel, but is more important if you have lots of channels on adjacent channels.

In the US we only assign odd numbered tenths... and in theory avoid assigning adjacent ones local to each other.

So, for example, overall there will be stations on 92.7, 92.9, 93.1, 93.3, 93.5, etc....

But, in a given local area, they should only be on 92.7, 93.1, 93.5, etc. (avoiding having two local stations on adjacent used channels)

(I'm not sure if anybody bothers to enforce this lately.)

4)

Consider a good directional antenna and an antenna rotator AFTER looking at your local geography.

A good directional antenna is just that... directional... and a rotator will allow you to point it at individual stations like a telescope.

This may help a lot if you have lots of distant stations in different directions...

But it won't help at all if all of your good stations come from the same direction - or even the same tower in some local city.

5)

Finally... proper orientation matters... even with a simple "wire T antenna".

A wire T-antenna picks up TO THE SIDES OF THE "T".

You want to stretch out the legs of the wire into an actual "T" shape.

If you stretch the "T" HORIZONTALLY it will pick up FROM THE FLAT SIDES and absolutely REJECT signals from the ends.

If you stretch the legs VERTICALLY, it will pick up from ALL directions, but will overall be somewhat less effective than the other way.

6)

HEIGHT MATTERS.

Even a dinky little antenna, or a wire T, works better the higher you put it.

If you live in a house, in a rural area, even raising the antenna into the attic will usually work far better than NOT putting it in the attic.

And, of course, hills, mountains, and metal block antennas to varying degrees.

(And, likewise, don't put your FM antenna right next to that satellite dish either.)

[405x5]

Feb 18, 2022 11:37:39 GMT -5 KeithL said:

I'm just going to throw in a few bits and pieces here...

1)

I agree that, for the most part, FM is dead. But, to be fair, I NEVER liked it very much...both because of the audio quality on most stations and because none of them would consistently play stuff I wanted to hear. And, by my reckoning, the content has gotten far worse. There is a local station I listen to in the car on the way to work. And they even play music I like...  but over, and over, and OVER again. (It's obvious they program a playlist, allow it to random repeat for a week or so, then pick a new one.)

2)

I tried SiriusXM radio in the car for a while... and I actually enjoyed the way they presented content... up until I'd heard the entire playlists on all of the four or five channels I enjoyed.

And, to be quite blunt, I found the audio quality to be audibly inferior - SIGNIFICANTLY inferior.

3)

If you're determined to listen to FM and have stations to listen to...

Find an old tuner with really good selectivity... both alternate channel and adjacent channel.

(But note that modern "chip" tuners, like the ones we include in our processors, aren't actually all that bad in terms of reception, and the sound quality is actually very good.)

ADJACENT CHANNEL SELECTIVITY is not often specified, and is going to be far lower than alternate channel, but is more important if you have lots of channels on adjacent channels.

In the US we only assign odd numbered tenths... and in theory avoid assigning adjacent ones local to each other.

So, for example, overall there will be stations on 92.7, 92.9, 93.1, 93.3, 93.5, etc....

But, in a given local area, they should only be on 92.7, 93.1, 93.5, etc. (avoiding having two local stations on adjacent used channels)

(I'm not sure if anybody bothers to enforce this lately.)

4)

Consider a good directional antenna and an antenna rotator AFTER looking at your local geography.

A good directional antenna is just that... directional... and a rotator will allow you to point it at individual stations like a telescope.

This may help a lot if you have lots of distant stations in different directions...

But it won't help at all if all of your good stations come from the same direction - or even the same tower in some local city.

5)

Finally... proper orientation matters... even with a simple "wire T antenna".

A wire T-antenna picks up TO THE SIDES OF THE "T".

You want to stretch out the legs of the wire into an actual "T" shape.

If you stretch the "T" HORIZONTALLY it will pick up FROM THE FLAT SIDES and absolutely REJECT signals from the ends.

If you stretch the legs VERTICALLY, it will pick up from ALL directions, but will overall be somewhat less effective than the other way.

6)

HEIGHT MATTERS.

Even a dinky little antenna, or a wire T, works better the higher you put it.

If you live in a house, in a rural area, even raising the antenna into the attic will usually work far better than NOT putting it in the attic.

And, of course, hills, mountains, and metal block antennas to varying degrees.

(And, likewise, don't put your FM antenna right next to that satellite dish either.)

Yep…this IS and old story that we’ve visited before (height and direction)
For years I did have moderate success employing a dedicated Fm roof antenna equipped with a rotor….used to pick up what little Jazz was left when I pointed the thing towards Connecticut. Then when I moved to a bigger house but down the road I lost the elevation, yet got closer to that Local Bubble gum station tower that over powers (and multi path) everything around here.
It’s all good now. At home I use the SONOS APP. for any stations I like an have a MESH system for a very powerful home WiFi Network.

[jbrunwa]

Feb 18, 2022 11:37:39 GMT -5 KeithL said:

I'm just going to throw in a few bits and pieces here...

1)

I agree that, for the most part, FM is dead. But, to be fair, I NEVER liked it very much...both because of the audio quality on most stations and because none of them would consistently play stuff I wanted to hear. And, by my reckoning, the content has gotten far worse. There is a local station I listen to in the car on the way to work. And they even play music I like...  but over, and over, and OVER again. (It's obvious they program a playlist, allow it to random repeat for a week or so, then pick a new one.)

2)

I tried SiriusXM radio in the car for a while... and I actually enjoyed the way they presented content... up until I'd heard the entire playlists on all of the four or five channels I enjoyed.

And, to be quite blunt, I found the audio quality to be audibly inferior - SIGNIFICANTLY inferior.

3)

If you're determined to listen to FM and have stations to listen to...

Find an old tuner with really good selectivity... both alternate channel and adjacent channel.

(But note that modern "chip" tuners, like the ones we include in our processors, aren't actually all that bad in terms of reception, and the sound quality is actually very good.)

ADJACENT CHANNEL SELECTIVITY is not often specified, and is going to be far lower than alternate channel, but is more important if you have lots of channels on adjacent channels.

In the US we only assign odd numbered tenths... and in theory avoid assigning adjacent ones local to each other.

So, for example, overall there will be stations on 92.7, 92.9, 93.1, 93.3, 93.5, etc....

But, in a given local area, they should only be on 92.7, 93.1, 93.5, etc. (avoiding having two local stations on adjacent used channels)

(I'm not sure if anybody bothers to enforce this lately.)

4)

Consider a good directional antenna and an antenna rotator AFTER looking at your local geography.

A good directional antenna is just that... directional... and a rotator will allow you to point it at individual stations like a telescope.

This may help a lot if you have lots of distant stations in different directions...

But it won't help at all if all of your good stations come from the same direction - or even the same tower in some local city.

5)

Finally... proper orientation matters... even with a simple "wire T antenna".

A wire T-antenna picks up TO THE SIDES OF THE "T".

You want to stretch out the legs of the wire into an actual "T" shape.

If you stretch the "T" HORIZONTALLY it will pick up FROM THE FLAT SIDES and absolutely REJECT signals from the ends.

If you stretch the legs VERTICALLY, it will pick up from ALL directions, but will overall be somewhat less effective than the other way.

6)

HEIGHT MATTERS.

Even a dinky little antenna, or a wire T, works better the higher you put it.

If you live in a house, in a rural area, even raising the antenna into the attic will usually work far better than NOT putting it in the attic.

And, of course, hills, mountains, and metal block antennas to varying degrees.

(And, likewise, don't put your FM antenna right next to that satellite dish either.)

General agreement with your assessment, except:

Im personally not able to hear that Sirius XM is of lesser quality in the car, and I appreciate the compression, as road noise dominates my listening experience.

Old tuners don’t support HD. Modern Sangean seems to have good performance. If AVRs supported HD Radio (in the US) or DAB (elsewhere) I would not buy a separate tuner.

Although most radio stations are owned by mega corporations and playlists are robotic, the many small college or non profit sponsored stations are human curated, for example in my Seattle area KBCS 91.3 and KEXP 90.3. Listening to them I am introduced to great music that I would never be exposed to from any of the popular streaming services that I use. Of course they also stream their content and I do stream them also, but I can still support them with donations and listen OTA and I’m not being tracked for advertising or paying data charges.

[donh50]

One minor quibble: a good directional antenna even without a rotator is still worthwhile if all the stations are from the same direction and far away because a multi-element antenna has greater gain than a dipole or omni loop.

Edit: I do not see any answer to the performance of the tuner in the RMC-1... Maybe ping Emotiva for the specs, test criteria, or something? Unless someone knows what chip they are using (guessing it is one of the single-chip tuners)? Maybe @keithl could help with the specs? I did not see any in the manual.