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Post by frdranger on Mar 7, 2022 19:12:08 GMT -5
Greetings! Just purchased the BasX A2M amplifier and a pair of Polk Reserve R200 bookshelf speakers for a near field/PC Desktop setup. I’ll be using my Evga Nu Audio sound card. This is my first Emotiva purchase and am thrilled to be here!
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Post by pallpoul on Mar 7, 2022 20:22:30 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum, you will enjoy your purchase, and I have read great reviews about those Polk R-200 speakers. congratulations, and enjoy your new gear.
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Post by 26gary26 on Mar 7, 2022 23:23:07 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum ! Congrats on the new setup.
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
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Post by novisnick on Mar 8, 2022 0:40:10 GMT -5
Welcome to the lounge where you’ll find some of the most knowledgeable, friendly and helpful people on the interwebs!!
Congratulations on your purchase.
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Post by frdranger on Mar 9, 2022 17:28:30 GMT -5
Thank you everyone! Just got the amp and the speakers. So far so good! Going to need the typical "break-in" time for the amp and speakers, but I was slightly worried at first the amp wouldn't be capable to drive the R200's but boy was I wrong lol.
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Post by leonski on Mar 24, 2022 23:06:37 GMT -5
Break in is one of those 'third rail' issues.
Do speakers break in? Or amps for that matter? I'd say YES, to the limit of the time it takes the capacitors to form.....A matter of an hour or so.
Many years ago I had brand new Magnepan. They sounded ....odd....for the first couple hours. Image would 'wander' side to side. Break-up, too.....
but that lasted only a couple hours.
I think you should just plug it IN, turn it ON and enjoy. Given your near-field use? I doubt you'll turn it up high enough to damage anything....ever....
If anything needs conditioning? It's YOUR HEARING to the new 'sounds'......Those Polk speakers are NOT the most sensitive, but in a near-field setup?
I doubt you'd need more than 20 watts per speaker....EVER......And they'll sound full with better bass than I'd expect to perceive in a larger room
Nearfield DOES have a few advantages....
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Mar 25, 2022 9:48:31 GMT -5
SPEAKERS definitely break in... With a cone driver you have a stiff cone supported by some sort of springy material (this includes both the visible edge surround and often a second internal "spider"). Virtually all soft springy materials "work in" as they are flexed... and this tends to happen to a significant degree over the first several hours of use. After that time, which can range from a few hours, up to several tens of hours, they tend to remain relatively constant, although they may change slightly with temperature and humidity.
(It's exactly the same reason that shoes and gloves get softer after the first few times you wear them.) Since the mass remains the same, but the springiness of the suspension changes, various mechanical relationships change, like "free air resonance" and "Q", which can have a significant effect on how a speaker sounds. A similar situation exists with dome type drivers. And, with planar speakers, like Magneplanars and electrostatic drivers, the film that comprises the driver itself will also break in slightly over time. (How long this takes, and how significant an effect it has on the sound, will vary widely depending on many details.) This is also true for the folded ribbon tweeters we use in our speakers - although I wouldn't say that the change is major.
I should also mention that, while this may affect the way a speaker sounds, it generally doesn't imply any sort of danger. You won't damage a speaker by playing it too loudly "before it's broken in"... at most it means that you shouldn't be concerned if a speaker doesn't deliver its full potential for that first few hours. With AMPLIFIERS the situation is far less certain... In the old days capacitors were commonly considered to "warp in" after some period of time... (And, if you're powering on an old amplifier that hasn't been run for many years, especially if it's a vacuum tube model, it's a good idea to bring up the power supply voltage gradually.)
However this is not really a significant factor with most modern electrical components. Yes, it sometimes seems to happen, but it's not something I would expect, or look for.... I'm quite convinced that, most of the time, it's the listener that's "breaking in"... Different amplifiers do sound a tiny bit different... And, as with most things, we may initially notice those differences, but they quickly become "the new normal", and then seem to disappear...
Note that many electronic devices, and especially amplifiers, do WARM UP... This is different than breaking in... It refers to the fact that, especially with amplifiers, some internal components have different characteristics at different temperatures... So, for example, an amplifier will automatically adjust the bias on its output devices as they go from "room temperature" to "normal operating temperature" to "full power". And this may result in slight but noticeable audible differences...
These changes will often take anywhere between a few minutes and a half hour or so... But, unlike a speaker "burning in", they will happen every time that amplifier goes from "cold" to "warmed up"...
To be honest, we don't consider this to be "audibly significant" with any of our amplifiers, but it is a real thing. And, also to be honest, it is far less significant, if it happens at all, with other types of electronic gear.
(So, yes, an amplifier may in fact sound slightly different for the first few minutes after it's turned on... or after it goes from "idling" to "running full blast".)
Break in is one of those 'third rail' issues. Do speakers break in? Or amps for that matter? I'd say YES, to the limit of the time it takes the capacitors to form.....A matter of an hour or so. Many years ago I had brand new Magnepan. They sounded ....odd....for the first couple hours. Image would 'wander' side to side. Break-up, too..... but that lasted only a couple hours. I think you should just plug it IN, turn it ON and enjoy. Given your near-field use? I doubt you'll turn it up high enough to damage anything....ever.... If anything needs conditioning? It's YOUR HEARING to the new 'sounds'......Those Polk speakers are NOT the most sensitive, but in a near-field setup? I doubt you'd need more than 20 watts per speaker....EVER......And they'll sound full with better bass than I'd expect to perceive in a larger room Nearfield DOES have a few advantages.... |
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Post by leonski on Mar 25, 2022 14:56:01 GMT -5
You mention a couple hours for surround break in? Why not? But after that? Unless you abuse the speaker? You're good for years. Certain surround materials MAY be subject to enviromentals......Maybe Ozone or some such? Or simple oxidation / Embrittlement? I'd Not want anyone smoking near my speakers, either. No telling what's in THAT stuff...... Agreed. Warmup changes are insignificant in the long run. It IS possible to run 'em too cold and certainly too HOT....... But Capacitors? I HEARD this when I bought my panels. I cannot ascribe what I heard to anything else BUT caps forming. And what I heard for the first hour or so? NEVER recurred. And ONE note about Maggies. The substrate is MYLAR, of course. Most people know that. But the mechanical properties of this stuff? VERY low 'stretch'.....I think Magnepan uses 1/2 mil (.0005") film........ usa.dupontteijinfilms.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Mylar_Physical_Properties.pdfI WILL note, however, that my original MG-1 panels sounded different after return from a rebuild. My imagination? Who knows, but it was long-term OK..... |
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Mar 28, 2022 11:11:21 GMT -5
However bear in mind that, when anything is "tightly stretched", and only over what is essentially a non-flexible frame, even a tiny change in dimension on either will make a major change in tension. Which will have a significant effect on the resonant frequency... even though I suspect that the tension is not expected to cause any sort of audible free air resonance effects. As far as I know there is no controlled tensioning mechanism... and so the tension is created by "shrinking the Mylar against the frame after attaching it"...
(And the fact that Mylar has so little stretch makes the tension especially sensitive to even tiny changes in dimension...)
As for cone speakers... most modern suspension materials are relatively resistant to things like ozone and UV... and are pretty stable on their own... although I would keep them out of direct sun... However many of the older foam surrounds would literally crumble to dust after ten years or so...
You mention a couple hours for surround break in? Why not? But after that? Unless you abuse the speaker? You're good for years. Certain surround materials MAY be subject to enviromentals......Maybe Ozone or some such? Or simple oxidation / Embrittlement? I'd Not want anyone smoking near my speakers, either. No telling what's in THAT stuff...... Agreed. Warmup changes are insignificant in the long run. It IS possible to run 'em too cold and certainly too HOT....... But Capacitors? I HEARD this when I bought my panels. I cannot ascribe what I heard to anything else BUT caps forming. And what I heard for the first hour or so? NEVER recurred. And ONE note about Maggies. The substrate is MYLAR, of course. Most people know that. But the mechanical properties of this stuff? VERY low 'stretch'.....I think Magnepan uses 1/2 mil (.0005") film........ usa.dupontteijinfilms.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Mylar_Physical_Properties.pdfI WILL note, however, that my original MG-1 panels sounded different after return from a rebuild. My imagination? Who knows, but it was long-term OK..... |
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Post by leonski on Mar 28, 2022 16:44:56 GMT -5
Magnepan installs 'tension' or 'tuning dots' on I think ALL panels. they are NOT in the same place on pairs, which distributes the frequency.... I don't know that Magnepan shrinks the Mylar after installing on a frame...... Also? Don't forget the wire or 'flat wire' (a form of ribbon) which is Glued to the panel. Given the speakers Extreemly Low sensitiivty, I'd say that any back EMF generated by say........Yelling Into the driver can safely be simply ignored... usa.dupontteijinfilms.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Mylar_Physical_Properties.pdfI recommend looking at the ELONGATION data for 32f and 95f which a speaker in normal use would never exceed...... I have read NO reports of the panel sound changing at temp extremes...... I'm going to 'phone a friend' and find out how Magnepan tensions panels...... |
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Post by marcl on Mar 28, 2022 17:04:03 GMT -5
Magnepan installs 'tension' or 'tuning dots' on I think ALL panels. they are NOT in the same place on pairs, which distributes the frequency.... I don't know that Magnepan shrinks the Mylar after installing on a frame...... Also? Don't forget the wire or 'flat wire' (a form of ribbon) which is Glued to the panel. Given the speakers Extreemly Low sensitiivty, I'd say that any back EMF generated by say........Yelling Into the driver can safely be simply ignored... usa.dupontteijinfilms.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Mylar_Physical_Properties.pdfI recommend looking at the ELONGATION data for 32f and 95f which a speaker in normal use would never exceed...... I have read NO reports of the panel sound changing at temp extremes...... I'm going to 'phone a friend' and find out how Magnepan tensions panels...... They tension each panel to a specific tension and they know based on the design that the tension will relax to point, and then stop and be stable from there on. They don't do anything at the factory, but the break-in happens with time and/or use. |
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Post by leonski on Mar 28, 2022 17:59:11 GMT -5
EXCELLENT Vid, marci! I see the stretch is done by DISTANCE, not with a fish scale or other direct measure. The process is 'tuned' to that change of distance.
I also see the amount of Hand Labor that goes into the manufacture. It was interesting watching the pole piece installation.....
They didn't say it, but Magnepan basically uses refrigerator magnets. One reason for the very low sensitivity they have.
I can see why my idea to use MORE powerful magnets would be a PIA. that would improve sensitivity at the expense of being much more difficult
to install.....And as it turns out? the most powerful magnets are dangerous. You can 'pinch' yourself or do other damage, not to mention if they 'get away'
from you. Niobium is brittle, so that's a problem......
I remember sending my MG1 to White Bear Lake for renewal. At that point? I guess MOST of the original crew had moved on and the 'lore' associated
with those older style panels was going away. I don't know they'll work on those origianl models, any more?
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Post by sparky14 on May 13, 2022 17:40:52 GMT -5
Greetings! Just purchased the BasX A2M amplifier and a pair of Polk Reserve R200 bookshelf speakers for a near field/PC Desktop setup. I’ll be using my Evga Nu Audio sound card. This is my first Emotiva purchase and am thrilled to be here! OK, you've had a couple of months. How do you like the combo? Curious as I have R200s on my desk, and I am in the market for an amp. |
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Post by simpleman68 on May 15, 2022 15:37:27 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum 
Those Polks should shine with the extra power. Scott
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Post by leonski on May 15, 2022 18:51:00 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum 
Those Polks should shine with the extra power. Scott
I would ONLY urge same or better 4ohm power at LOWER distortion. 1% tells me amp is nearing 'redline' at that power. Speakers are 86db sensitive with NO impedance specified....just 'compatiibility' with 4, 8, ohm OK amps....... Peaker MINIMUM impedance at 3.8 ohms is NOT a red flag, but actually FINE.....and indicates what should, subject to other bench measures, be a fairly easy load to drive......I hope it is. They are NOT exactly 'inexpensive' speakers, but I think represent GOOD value in this market. A VERY competitive space..... |
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on May 16, 2022 0:07:12 GMT -5
As a broad generalization... applicable to pretty much all modern solid state amplifiers (including the BasX models).
The distortion will remain very low right up until they approach clipping... at which point the curve will climb suddenly. This will be true for both 8 Ohms and 4 Ohms... although the details will vary.
And, if the amp is "voltage limited", it will deliver a lot more power into 4 Ohms than into 8 Ohms...
And, if it is "current limited" it will deliver about the same into each... (And neither is specifically better since, either way, the amp's distortion will be very low until it hits which ever limit occurs first.)
HOWEVER I urge you not to take the rating we choose at that point too much to heart... since there are also "marketing considerations". For example, in a typical case, an amp that is "100 watts at 1% THD" is going to be "90 watts at 0.2% THD" and "80 watts at 0.05% THD". (We may choose the 1% rating if "we're looking to rate for more power" or the 0.05% rating if "we're looking to rate for lower distortion".).
I'm also going to let you in on a sort of "dirty little secret".... The distortion on the absolute BEST loudspeakers is MUCH higher than on most amplifiers... It's rarely rated... partly because it looks bad... and partly because, since microphones also have a lot of distortion, it's difficult to measure.
You're not going to hear it... but that's why fussing over a few tenths of a percent here or there on the electronics is sort of silly...
Welcome to the forum Those Polks should shine with the extra power. Scott
I would ONLY urge same or better 4ohm power at LOWER distortion. 1% tells me amp is nearing 'redline' at that power. Speakers are 86db sensitive with NO impedance specified....just 'compatiibility' with 4, 8, ohm OK amps....... Peaker MINIMUM impedance at 3.8 ohms is NOT a red flag, but actually FINE.....and indicates what should, subject to other bench measures, be a fairly easy load to drive......I hope it is. They are NOT exactly 'inexpensive' speakers, but I think represent GOOD value in this market. A VERY competitive space..... |
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Post by leonski on May 16, 2022 0:53:51 GMT -5
Voltage source is GENERALLY considered to be SS Current source if usually TUBE gear..... I don't know if a 'perfect' form of either exists....  And yes......you'll get GOOD results up to clipping than it'll SOAR. And yes, again, with RARE exception, speakers produce more distortion. And as it turnss out? The human ear is fairly Insensitive at lower freuquencies, so 5% distion at 50hz or whatever....is not a HUGE deal. I think that the USER needs to be aware. Some head-banger with low sensitivity / 4ohm speakers MIGHT get into trouble about headache time. Most normal people? Never notice. And I think the OP mentioned a desk-top system, so THAT is even less power needed, regardless of the speakers (not specified) real impedance curve. I think I saw the speakers selling for 650$ which i an incredibly competitive space. |
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Post by pedrocols on May 17, 2022 21:05:31 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum.
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