Please Recommend Processor(s) to Scale DVDs to 1080p

[luvsorite]

I need advice deciding between two schemes for deinterlacing and scaling 480 content to achieve the best results affordable on a late model 1080p 50" plasma TV. I decided against even the best Sony 48 or 55" OLED TVs as all TVs today are 4K, and however intelligent the algorithms in their processors, scaling 480 to 4K is likely to generate too many artifacts.

My collection of movies and TV series is sizable but only 30-odd movies and one TV series are on 1080p BD. The rest are on DVD, though pressed from Warners, Sony, Universal, Fox, CBS/Paramount, Studio Canal, et al.

Rather than my Oppo 95 or Pioneer LX500 players, I'd rather use the BD drive in the HTPC that I want to build-outputting the video via HDMI and the audio via USB to a DAC. The good news is I do no gaming, so I may not need a super powerful video card. But how much horsepower will I still need to make my DVDs look their best on a plasma?

I only know of two ways to do this. The first way is this expensive box, not that I have any experience using it.

www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=radianceMini_details

The second way is certainly far most popular: Use an HTPC with a suitably powerful graphics card and madVR software, or the Jinc utility which I believe is built into JRiver player. But while Jinc's learning curve might not be very steep most users say madVR can take you days or weeks to produce decent results. I don't mind putting in reasonable time to learn as much as I can so long as my efforts bear good looking fruit.


However, the big concern here is fan noise, power draw and/or heat emission. My HTPC build is way overdue but it also needs to be virtually (~ 80%) silent-and in a
case no bigger than this. www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=233&area=en

But a madVR user said this silent card's too weak. www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/gt-1030/specifications/  and to scale DVDs for a 1080p plasma-even when viewed 10 to 12 feet away-I'd at least need a card idling at 82 watts like this one. www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/gtx-1650/

And the card's idling fan noise levels really aren't rated too well.  www.anandtech.com/show/14270/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1650-review-feat-zotac/15

Same with this card. www.anandtech.com/show/15010/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1660-super-review-feat-evga/15

There is a fanless version of the 1650. www.a2kmedia.net/post/is-silent-gpu-any-good-palit-gtx-1650-kalmx

But that's assuming I wouldn't actually need some stronger and even noisier card for great looking DVDs on a 50" plasma @ 10 feet, using madVR or Jinc.

So is asking for low fan noise and stellar DVD to 1080p scaling from a video card pretty much asking for the impossible?

If so, then unless this less costly model would give exceptionally good results on my screen and viewing distance www.kramerav.com/us/product/vp-424c , would this processor produce indispensably better images? www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=radianceMini_details


BUT I'll be sending the audio to an external DAC via USB, so any problems syncing the video with the audio while the pc's playing the DVD via JRiver?

[mgbpuff]

You really need to abandon your plasma worship culture and update your tv. All tvs do good upscaling now, as do all blueray and 4K players. Why go to extreme pc and software extremes with a display device that has long been surpassed in resolution?

[luvsorite]

Apr 14, 2022 13:34:44 GMT -5 mgbpuff said:

You really need to abandon your plasma worship culture and update your tv. All tvs do good upscaling now, as do all blueray and 4K players. Why go to extreme pc and software extremes with a display device that has long been surpassed in resolution?

I think it's largely a matter of the resolution of most of one's content; whether they mostly stream movies and TV shows and/or if they have large physical media collections. If users stream most of that content will likely have been produced recently. In which case, the visual was originally captured at 1080p or higher. And yes, certainly a good OLED TV can easily make 1080p content look fantastic. However, even users who mostly began collecting movies and TV shows on optical disc after 2006, when Blu-Ray arrived, depending on their personal tastes, much content still hasn't be transferred to BD, and probably never will. Indeed, I have only one TV series and about 30-odd movies on BD.The rest of my entire collection are on DVD.

And it's hardly about "worshiping" any technology, past or present, only that expecting standard resolution video formats to look very respectable on 2022 displays is essentially asking the impossible.

In 2019, a Best Buy salesperson agreed to play a pressed DVD version of "Molly's Game" I had borrowed from the public library on the top model 65" Sony OLED. I stood about 11 feet away but even at that distance the images looked quite soft and had other imaging issues. But should I have been surprised considering the enormous difference in resolution?  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4K_resolution#/media/File:Digital_video_resolutions_(VCD_to_4K).svg 

What's been your experience watching your best quality DVDs on your 4K TV? Is it something you do often or do you find it dissatisfying? 

[LCSeminole]

I only have a few DVDs, as the rest of my physical media is mainly 4K UHD bluray and 1080p bluray. Yes 1080p bluray scales quite nicely on my professionally ISF calibrated Sony OLED and looks quite good in SDR and 4K UHD Blu-ray’s are quite stunning in HDR10/DolbyVision, but DVDs just don’t scale well at all and look too soft and too grainy with an over abundance of artifacts. While I know this is of no help in your quest, I just thought I’d verify your finding of DVD playback on 4K native panels.

[localnet]

I was going to suggest picking up a used OPPO BDP-83 player with the Anchor Bay chipset... Still one of the best up converting DVD players out there. I still run mine, and find the resolution is still top notch all of these years later on my 2017 Sony Bravia 55800E. DVD. BD and 4K, all look great to my eyes. But, I primarily use the Oppo for SACD transport, but still own a few older movies.

[garbulky]

I think your quest will be unfruitful. It is not a fault of the tvs but simply bigger size. The compatible higher resolution format simply a design for these biggest sizes and better quality TV sets. I doubt upscalers would help all that match.
The good news is that it is a really good time to upgrade to a nice old oled TV and to upgrade your collection to blu rays and 4k. The remasters they are making of old content is stunning. For instance, the 10 Commandments looks incredible on 4K Blu-ray. Oklahoma, the Todd a0 remaster on Blu-ray is unlike anything I’ve seen. High dynamic range on the 4K Blu-ray‘s really does allow for noticeably better color. Some thing that DVDs cannot compete with.

[LuisV]

I migrated (sold) my collection as the newer formats were introduced... VHS to LaserDisc, LD to DVD, and DVD to Bluray + Digital.  Once on Bluray, my 58" Plasma was fantastic; however, as 4K became the norm, I donated the Plasma and went down the OLED route.   Zero regrets.

These days, streaming is simply more convenient; therefore, my Bluray collection is shrinking.  As you're experiencing, DVD upsampling introduces artifacts and looks soft compared to newer content.  Although not ideal, you're best bet it to bite the bullet and migrate your content to 1080 and or 4k.  

Forgot to ask / mention... these days why a HTPC?   A similar system running Unraid or TrueNAS serving up content and acting as an application server can be housed in a different room; therefore, fan noise is usually not an issue in the listening area.  Use a streamer, like an Nvidia Shield at the TV as it can handle all surround formats and video content.  I'm using an Nvidia Quadro P2000 in my Unraid server and it idles at 7w.  Food for thought...

[mgbpuff]

Apr 14, 2022 15:09:53 GMT -5 luvsorite said:

Apr 14, 2022 13:34:44 GMT -5 mgbpuff said:

You really need to abandon your plasma worship culture and update your tv. All tvs do good upscaling now, as do all blueray and 4K players. Why go to extreme pc and software extremes with a display device that has long been surpassed in resolution?

I think it's largely a matter of the resolution of most of one's content; whether they mostly stream movies and TV shows and/or if they have large physical media collections. If users stream most of that content will likely have been produced recently. In which case, the visual was originally captured at 1080p or higher. And yes, certainly a good OLED TV can easily make 1080p content look fantastic. However, even users who mostly began collecting movies and TV shows on optical disc after 2006, when Blu-Ray arrived, depending on their personal tastes, much content still hasn't be transferred to BD, and probably never will. Indeed, I have only one TV series and about 30-odd movies on BD.The rest of my entire collection are on DVD.

And it's hardly about "worshiping" any technology, past or present, only that expecting standard resolution video formats to look very respectable on 2022 displays is essentially asking the impossible.

In 2019, a Best Buy salesperson agreed to play a pressed DVD version of "Molly's Game" I had borrowed from the public library on the top model 65" Sony OLED. I stood about 11 feet away but even at that distance the images looked quite soft and had other imaging issues. But should I have been surprised considering the enormous difference in resolution?  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4K_resolution#/media/File:Digital_video_resolutions_(VCD_to_4K).svg 

What's been your experience watching your best quality DVDs on your 4K TV? Is it something you do often or do you find it dissatisfying? 

I have a huge number of dvds, bluerays, and 4k discs. I play them all through an OPPO 203. The dvds are softer with less detail (duh), but they are very enjoyable on either my 65" 4K Samsung or my Sony HW40 (1080p) on a 120" screen. Now my Laserdiscs, which only play via a composite output, don't look too good (I have to use a composite to HDMI converter).

[KeithL]

What you're talking about is not just "upscaling" - but "upscaling with enhancement".

As a few people have already said, most modern TVs do a really good job of this, but some do tend to produce a lot of odd artifacts when doing "extreme upscaling" (like from 480i to 4k).

(Most modern 4k TVs are really optimized for upscaling 1080p Blu-Ray content - and do a really great job with that.)

It's also worth noting that, if you end up with too many artifacts, some TVs may offer the option of using LESS processing when upscaling.

For example, if the upscaling produces too many artifacts, since sharpening tends to emphasize processing artifacts, try REDUCING the sharpening setting,

Likewise some "motion smoothing" settings may tend to emphasize artifacts.

Another thing is that, if you like experimenting with various options, you may find that some combinations work especially well.

For example, have the player upscale a DVD to 720p or 1080p, then let the 4k TV upscale that to 4k.

(Sometimes it just works out that the softening at one stage cancels out or prevents the artifacts at another.)

It's also worth mentioning that, even with a modern computer, and a good graphics card, with upscaling there is ALWAYS a tradeoff between time and quality.

(Which is why it's so impressive how well most 4k TVs do this in real time - and why most of the really impressive programs do not operate in real-time.)

If you have any videos that you REALLY care about, and they are already in file form, or you're able to rip them from the DVD...

I STRONGLY recommend that you check out Topaz Labs VideoEnhanceAI.   (  www.topazlabs.com/shop  )

This is a program that is used to upscale and enhance video files OFFLINE (not in real time) and it can do a spectacular job of improving some low quality videos.

This means that you run it once on your original file to produce a new enhanced version.

(It also does a great job upscaling better videos... but, for those, most 4k TVs also do a good job.)

However there are a few "catches":

1. It only works with certain hardware (specifically certain NVidia graphics cards and I believe now a few Apple computers).

2. It's a bit on the expensive side ($200) and it is also subscription-based (you must buy it and then pay for continued updates - which are worthwhile).

3. It's VERY slow - even if you give it A LOT of processing horsepower (expect it to take several hours to upscale a full movie - WITH a fast computer and a powerful graphics card.)

    (Expect a five minute music video to take at least a half hour and a full movie to take up to a full day.)
    (And, to be honest, don't even bother if you don't have a graphics card close to one on the list.)

4.It is somewhat fussy about the format of the original file (so make sure whatever software you use to RIP your DVDs outputs a format it supports).

However, if you have a few prized videos, that just plain aren't available at reasonable resolution, the results are really impressive.

I've seen some scary-good results with some older low-res music videos.

(There is a demo version you can try.)

Note that there are now several other similar options available... and I haven't tried all of them.

Apr 14, 2022 13:15:51 GMT -5 luvsorite said:

I need advice deciding between two schemes for deinterlacing and scaling 480 content to achieve the best results affordable on a late model 1080p 50" plasma TV. I decided against even the best Sony 48 or 55" OLED TVs as all TVs today are 4K, and however intelligent the algorithms in their processors, scaling 480 to 4K is likely to generate too many artifacts.

My collection of movies and TV series is sizable but only 30-odd movies and one TV series are on 1080p BD. The rest are on DVD, though pressed from Warners, Sony, Universal, Fox, CBS/Paramount, Studio Canal, et al.

Rather than my Oppo 95 or Pioneer LX500 players, I'd rather use the BD drive in the HTPC that I want to build-outputting the video via HDMI and the audio via USB to a DAC. The good news is I do no gaming, so I may not need a super powerful video card. But how much horsepower will I still need to make my DVDs look their best on a plasma?

I only know of two ways to do this. The first way is this expensive box, not that I have any experience using it.

www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=radianceMini_details

The second way is certainly far most popular: Use an HTPC with a suitably powerful graphics card and madVR software, or the Jinc utility which I believe is built into JRiver player. But while Jinc's learning curve might not be very steep most users say madVR can take you days or weeks to produce decent results. I don't mind putting in reasonable time to learn as much as I can so long as my efforts bear good looking fruit.


However, the big concern here is fan noise, power draw and/or heat emission. My HTPC build is way overdue but it also needs to be virtually (~ 80%) silent-and in a
case no bigger than this. www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=233&area=en

But a madVR user said this silent card's too weak. www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/gt-1030/specifications/  and to scale DVDs for a 1080p plasma-even when viewed 10 to 12 feet away-I'd at least need a card idling at 82 watts like this one. www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/gtx-1650/

And the card's idling fan noise levels really aren't rated too well.  www.anandtech.com/show/14270/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1650-review-feat-zotac/15

Same with this card. www.anandtech.com/show/15010/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1660-super-review-feat-evga/15

There is a fanless version of the 1650. www.a2kmedia.net/post/is-silent-gpu-any-good-palit-gtx-1650-kalmx

But that's assuming I wouldn't actually need some stronger and even noisier card for great looking DVDs on a 50" plasma @ 10 feet, using madVR or Jinc.

So is asking for low fan noise and stellar DVD to 1080p scaling from a video card pretty much asking for the impossible?

If so, then unless this less costly model would give exceptionally good results on my screen and viewing distance www.kramerav.com/us/product/vp-424c , would this processor produce indispensably better images? www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=radianceMini_details


BUT I'll be sending the audio to an external DAC via USB, so any problems syncing the video with the audio while the pc's playing the DVD via JRiver?