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Post by hdkeith on Jul 15, 2022 12:20:18 GMT -5
I am not looking to start a dust up, but really trying to understand.
I began shopping for separate as my next logical step from AVR. I was reading up on affordable amps and the XPA line came up. I have narrowed down my choices to a Monoprice Monolith amp, XPA-7 vs Monolith 7X. I like to do my homework and did a lot of reading and watching/reading of reviews. Both products get good reviews and the Monoprice is designed and built by ATI to Monoprice space. When I dig deeper many users on the various Audiophile/Home Theater forums and it seems there are a great deal of people that have had long term reliability issues and then customer service concerns. I have been really intrigued and just struggle to bring myself to make what will be a large purchase for me on my several year journey to upgrade my home theater. Wondering what kind fof issues or longevity people are seeing with the Ge 3 XPA amps? And if you had issues is it the amp modules or the SMPS PSU?
I feel like publicly they have taken a good approach for out of warranty. As seen on their website FAQ:
If you have a piece of Emotiva gear that is out of warranty and has stopped working, you may discover that we are no longer able to provide out-of-warranty repair for it, or that the cost to do so would exceed either your budget or the current value of the product itself. If this happens, you may wish to consider one of our trade-in programs.
Original owners of Emotiva gear are eligible for our regular Trade-In Program, while we have a Core Value Trade-In program for owners who purchased their Emotiva gear second hand. Note that, even if your unit is not currently working, or has cosmetic damage, it may still entitle you to a significant trade-in credit against the purchase of new Emotiva gear.
Of course one usually does buy an amp expecting to get a life span of a decade or more. It seems maybe the latest Gen 3 XPA products may not be designed/built with that kind of longevity in mind. Again, not looking for a fight I know I can find upset people with Monoproce as well.
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Post by geebo on Jul 15, 2022 13:15:32 GMT -5
I've had my Gen 3 XPA since shortly after they were introduced. It's been flawless and I also had a third channel added to it for about $200. I am thinking about adding two full power channels or two stereo boards as well. Versatility with expansion is a nice plus. Oh, and it sounds very good, too.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 15, 2022 13:39:31 GMT -5
Emotiva power amps have traditionally been VERY reliable. My (few) experiences with Emotiva service have also been very positive. And just to give some credence to my claims, I've owned a LOT of Emotiva products (maybe not so many as 50, but certainly more than 25). Among the Emotiva products that I've owned (and still remember):
Generation 1 XPA-2
XPA-1L (2)
Generation 2 XPA-2 (twice)
Generation 2 XPA-1
XPR-2
Generation 2 XPA-3
BasX A-2 (twice)
XPA-200
Generation 3 XPA-2
PA-1 (2)
XDA-1 (twice)
XDA-2
Stealth DC-1 (twice)
Big Ego+
XSP-1 (twice)
USP-1
BasX PT-100
BasX PT1
BasX TA-100
BasX TA1
BasX A-100
and probably that many more that I can't remember...
Boomzilla
Postscriptum - The three best-sounding products from the above list have been:
Gen. 2 XPA-1 amps
PA-1 Class-D amps
BasX PT1 preamp
I stlll own the latter two of these three. I've been tempted (time and again) to sell the PA-1 amps, but then I think "where could I buy anything else that would sound as good for this little money?" Being unable to conceive of an answer, I keep the amps. The preamp is similarly something that I've often considered "don't need." I use the DAC's volume to drive my amps directly, and the PT1 sits on my shelf 90% of the time. But every time I consider selling it, I consider the fact that, again - "what could I buy that would sound as good for this little money?" With no answer available, I keep the preamp until needed. I don't regret selling my Generation 2 XPA-1 mono blocks, though. They weighed a TON, and the lightweight PA-1 amps provide 99% of the sound quality with 1/5 the size and weight. So after so much gear swapping, I think I've actually got a full set of "keepers" now. Other things I've kept:
Black Ice F22 integrated tube amp
Various interconnects & speaker wires (don't take up much space)
Heathkit mono block tube amplifiers (best sounding amps I've ever heard, but only about 11 watts each)
Crown PA-2 stereo power amp (only amp I've got stable at 2 ohms)
Klipsch RP600-m speakers with GR Research damping material installed (awesome at low volumes)
Boom
Second PS:
I remembered some extra Emotiva equipment that I've owned:
T2 speakers (twice)
Various interconnects & wires (still have some)
Virtual Copper wireless subwoofer transmitter/receiver (still have these)
XLR two-to-one breakout boxes (still have these)
Surge suppressor strip
Power cords
12VDC trigger booster
And more that I've forgotten...
Boom
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Post by brutiarti on Jul 15, 2022 14:15:58 GMT -5
The problem with Emotiva products is that they might discontinue them and after the warranty expires they may not be able to repair them. You will need to evaluate if the asking price is worth the 5 years of piece of mind. If it lasts longer then it will be a bonus.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 15, 2022 14:26:40 GMT -5
I think some are traditionalists and judge an amp by its weight, the older amps weighed more due to the toroidal or laminated transformers, therefor they’re better. There have also been measurements that weren’t as good as the older amps, but I have had both a Gen 2 and Gen 3 XPA-7, and thought they both sounded excellent. While the Gen 2 had a bit more power when driving two channels only, I would never buy another amp that heavy, and appreciate the SMPS in that respect. I did have a failure with my Gen 2 that led to my purchasing the Gen 3, I never had an issue with the Gen 3. Shipping heavy amps is detrimental to their health.
Edit: I also appreciate the Gen 3’s lower idle power consumption and heat generation.
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,273
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Post by KeithL on Jul 15, 2022 14:48:52 GMT -5
I don't disagree with a lot of what you've said here... However.... You need to keep in mind that the same can be said with most modern equipment. Like it or not, pretty well all modern electronic equipment, including audio gear, is heading in the direction of using custom or application-specific parts. The days when "you could fix any audio amp with a couple of standard transistor numbers and a decent meter" are pretty well gone. And, thanks in part to the recent "supply chain issues", even "common readily available parts", like specific transistors and capacitors, are becoming more difficult to source. In simplest terms, there is very little audio gear you can buy today that "you can be absolutely confident repair parts will be available for in five or ten years"... Also, and even more worrisome, many old reliable audio companies have gone out of business, or changed hands, and a good repair shop can be difficult or impossible to find... Here at Emotiva we concentrate on offering excellent sound quality... great value... and a very good warranty... And we don't honestly think you can get a better combination of those important things anywhere else... I will add that our XPA Gen3 amps have so far proven to be MORE reliable than the Gen1 and Gen2 models. (In specific the SMPS has proven to be extremely reliable... ) The problem with Emotiva products is that they might discontinue them and after the warranty expires they may not be able to repair them. You will need to evaluate if the asking price is worth the 5 years of piece of mind. If it lasts longer then it will be a bonus. |
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Post by hdkeith on Jul 15, 2022 15:56:58 GMT -5
The problem with Emotiva products is that they might discontinue them and after the warranty expires they may not be able to repair them. You will need to evaluate if the asking price is worth the 5 years of piece of mind. If it lasts longer then it will be a bonus. I get that, but they now say if they can't that may provide a trade in value, I thinks that is a decent option. Heck I reached out to Monoprice weeks ago and they have not replied if there is a repair option after warranty. Also when I reached out to ATI to see if they would repair them they said ask Monoprice. So All the rave about Monoprice seems to be just people that bought amps and no issues so far, but if it dies in year 6 it looks like Monorprice says tough luck, at least Emotiva seems to say they will try and may offer you trade in. It would easier for me if the on the XPA-9 if the stereo modules were 100w I would probably be all in. My only real option with XPA would be XPA-7 then add a Bas-X 2 for 2 of the surrounds or likely my elevation channels. |
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Post by brutiarti on Jul 15, 2022 15:58:56 GMT -5
I don't disagree with a lot of what you've said here... However.... You need to keep in mind that the same can be said with most modern equipment. Like it or not, pretty well all modern electronic equipment, including audio gear, is heading in the direction of using custom or application-specific parts. The days when "you could fix any audio amp with a couple of standard transistor numbers and a decent meter" are pretty well gone. And, thanks in part to the recent "supply chain issues", even "common readily available parts", like specific transistors and capacitors, are becoming more difficult to source. In simplest terms, there is very little audio gear you can buy today that "you can be absolutely confident repair parts will be available for in five or ten years"... Also, and even more worrisome, many old reliable audio companies have gone out of business, or changed hands, and a good repair shop can be difficult or impossible to find... Here at Emotiva we concentrate on offering excellent sound quality... great value... and a very good warranty... And we don't honestly think you can get a better combination of those important things anywhere else... I will add that our XPA Gen3 amps have so far proven to be MORE reliable than the Gen1 and Gen2 models. (In specific the SMPS has proven to be extremely reliable... ) The problem with Emotiva products is that they might discontinue them and after the warranty expires they may not be able to repair them. You will need to evaluate if the asking price is worth the 5 years of piece of mind. If it lasts longer then it will be a bonus. I agree. My Sony TV lasted 1 year and 1 month. With only 1 year warranty I was out of luck. At least I recouped a few hundred bucks from the credit card extended warranty. My new TV comes with 1 year factory warranty plus the 3 or 5 Extra years from geek squad. For the price I’m ok if the TV lasts that amount of time |
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Post by leonski on Jul 15, 2022 22:57:22 GMT -5
Glad to hear the PS is 'more reliable'. More parts in a more complex circuit is usually the sign of more repairs downstream.
The only amp I can think of with 'proprietary parts' is the stuff Pass made using a custon run of SIT transistors. I suspect extras
were made and delivered, but eventually.......
We had a power supply on a semconductor processing machine. Pretty high voltage machine, of I think 10kv. The part was a DELCO
transistor which was Unobtanium. Checking the books, we did find a replacement which gave reasonable service.
Many designers can fall back on pre-made stuff.... Most gear needing a wall-wart is either off-the-shelf or same, only repackaged.
Who knows if remote modules or phono amps or whatever else might be bought and incorporated into an original design....?
Anything I buy going forward will come WITH a schematic. My HSU sub is a decade old and still FINE. But the folks a HSU won't part with
a schematic claiming 'proprietary'. To which I reply BS!
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cawgijoe
Emo VIPs 
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 5,033
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Post by cawgijoe on Jul 16, 2022 9:11:44 GMT -5
My Gen 1 XPA5 amp had a failure at 8 years. I could have had it repaired by Emotiva, but I ended up trading it in on a Gen 3. The new amp has been great so far.
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Post by davidl81 on Jul 16, 2022 20:57:33 GMT -5
I had an XPA-2 Gen 2 and now I have all Gen 3 Emotiva amps. I find they sound very similar, but the Gen 3 is so much lighter and cooler. I would not go back to the Gen 2.
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Post by hdkeith on Jul 22, 2022 16:29:04 GMT -5
OK so I learned the hard way. I had ordered a Monolith 9X and set it up and it has cyclical humming form the power supply. Fortunately I ordered off their e-bay store becasue it had free returns. So it goes back and I am going to order an XPA. Still debating config. I am deciding between an XPA-3 for front stage and then a XPX-6/0 to drive my surrounds or maybe and XPA-7 to drive all but my elevations then a BasX A2 to drive the elevations. I will decide and order this weekend. I am glad this happened becasue when I looked at the cost to ship the Monolith to CA it was $220, so had it needed service outside of warranty it would be insane At least Emotiva is 1 state a way and the amps are lighter. Not forward to lugging this 100 pounds to USPS (that how they pay for the return).
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Post by davidl81 on Jul 22, 2022 16:51:37 GMT -5
What speakers are you trying to drive? It’s likely you can get away with an XPA-9. Your surround channels generally need very little wattage.
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Post by hdkeith on Jul 22, 2022 18:50:41 GMT -5
Yeah I was thinking it, but for me the 65W on the stereo modules is a concern. I have not selected my speakers yet so been trying to do surrounds at 100w to be safe. The current short list for speakers are Arendale 1723 towers, center with 1961 for surrounds. Next option is Ascend acoustics Sierra Towers and Horizon center, but maybe Goldenear Supersat 3s for surrounds or Martin Logan 4i, 6i or 8i for surrounds. Last option is likely Martin Logan 60XTi/50XTi front stage with either the ML surrounds or Goldenear Supersat surrounds. One alternate is the Arendale 1961 surrounds no matter what front stage.
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Post by bonscott on Jul 22, 2022 21:02:39 GMT -5
Yeah I was thinking it, but for me the 65W on the stereo modules is a concern. I have not selected my speakers yet so been trying to do surrounds at 100w to be safe. The current short list for speakers are Arendale 1723 towers, center with 1961 for surrounds. Next option is Ascend acoustics Sierra Towers and Horizon center, but maybe Goldenear Supersat 3s for surrounds or Martin Logan 4i, 6i or 8i for surrounds. Last option is likely Martin Logan 60XTi/50XTi front stage with either the ML surrounds or Goldenear Supersat surrounds. One alternate is the Arendale 1961 surrounds no matter what front stage. I have an XPA 7 Gen 3 with Martin Logan 60XTI/50XTi with EM FX2s for surround. Sounds Awesome. The Amp has worked flawless |
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Post by leonski on Jul 28, 2022 18:11:06 GMT -5
Yeah I was thinking it, but for me the 65W on the stereo modules is a concern. I have not selected my speakers yet so been trying to do surrounds at 100w to be safe. The current short list for speakers are Arendale 1723 towers, center with 1961 for surrounds. Next option is Ascend acoustics Sierra Towers and Horizon center, but maybe Goldenear Supersat 3s for surrounds or Martin Logan 4i, 6i or 8i for surrounds. Last option is likely Martin Logan 60XTi/50XTi front stage with either the ML surrounds or Goldenear Supersat surrounds. One alternate is the Arendale 1961 surrounds no matter what front stage. Difference between 65 watts and 100 watts? Less than 2db increase. 65 to 130 would be an even 3db..... What you have going for you is the fact that most HT speakers are in no way a demanding or wide impedance swing type load...... I'd also TEND to choose speakers which match. And by match I mean the sound or timbre. Speakers too far apart in this regard will tend to 'stick out'. What have you LISTENED to? What stuck out? Do you have an idea of 'system' here or just stuff? What do YOU like or value? If exclusively for movies? That eases the burden. Nobody knows what most of that stuff sounds like, anyway. But if you use a music reference? You'll probably need to be a little more 'picky'..... |
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Post by routlaw on Jul 28, 2022 19:49:53 GMT -5
Agree with Leonski, choose speakers that match especially for HT. As a rule choosing all speakers from same manufacturer should provide a reasonable tone and timbre match rather than a hodge pudge of different drivers, cabinet, xover technologies etc.
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Post by leonski on Jul 29, 2022 13:35:43 GMT -5
My dream? An ALL Magnepan HT setup. In the appropriate large space.
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Post by tropicallutefisk on Jul 29, 2022 15:03:09 GMT -5
I run three DR1s across the front of my HT set up running a pair of Maggie 3.7is plus a CC3 and couldn’t be happier. Plenty of clean power to make my speakers sing. I figure I’d have to spend thousands more to get anything I’d like better and that’s probably not happening.
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Post by garbulky on Jul 29, 2022 15:58:00 GMT -5
 (XPA-2 gen 3) www.stereophile.com/content/emotiva-xpa-gen3-two-channel-power-amplifier-measurementsThis is one reason See those highest two peaks - those two are the actual signal. Everything else is distortion. You can compare how other amplifiers handle the tests. Though this is not the same test and not at high power - so very different - but here is a multitone test all those peaks are the signal. But you see how low the distortion is on this.  |
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