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Post by jbrunwa on Aug 5, 2022 17:15:55 GMT -5
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Post by marcl on Aug 5, 2022 17:38:10 GMT -5
A lot of vinyl mastering houses do it from CD. No surprise. They just take a perfectly good digital recording, roll off steep below 30Hz and above 16KHz, sum all the bass to mono below 200Hz, reduce channel separation, and limit dynamic range to 65db. |
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Post by novisnick on Aug 5, 2022 18:00:00 GMT -5
I’ve been following this since it all started.
Heres where the question and the can of worms first started.
Did MoFi mislead the world? The lawsuit wouldn’t win you any money BUT they were aware of the “misrepresentation” and IMO didn’t do anything to expand the misgiven!
Many are butt hurt and others don’t care. Everyone wants the best sounding recordings and nobody likes to be miss-lead.
They have handled damage control about as poorly as Nixon!
These revelations may start a new standard as to where the source of any given music comes from and how its recorded or placed on any given medium.
Analogue Productions has long been a standard-bearer of how to record and state so on its packaging. They record from the tapes and say so when they’re available. When the original recordings aren’t available, they state where and how the record is pressed.
Im hoping MoFi survives this mess and comes out the other end a more transparent recording company. MoFi is a subsidiary of Music Direct owner Jim Davis.
Back to Michael of theingroove.com , he started asking the same question as Michael of 45 RPM Audiophile of YouTube fame. MoFi granted Michael Esposito an interview which is posted in the OPs post. Many of us and the media thought that they should have offered the interview to somebody more qualified to report on the questions that had arisen. Perhaps Michael Fermer who has a lifetime of experience in writing about most things in the audio world.
The real interview should not have been with the engineers hired to make the best sounding recordings but with the company Representitive that hires, fires and controls what goes on in there subsidiary.
There is now this release from them.
“Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab's ongoing quest is to deliver the foremost sounding audio entertainment software that technological innovation can provide. From our first UHQR™ vinyl LP to our latest Ultradisc UHR™ SACD, we have been and will remain a steadfast innovator in the audiophile frontier. We further believe that technological development serves best when accompanied by a profound awareness and appreciation for the elusive magic and mystery that comprises music itself. Our greatest hope is that our products will serve as conduits for ears and souls to experience premium, pure, natural sound reproduction of diverse, pre-eminent original master recordings across the entire musical spectrum.
Mobile Fidelity believes that mastering systems should be neutral and transparent. The essential idea is to unveil all the detailed musical information on the original master recording without adding deterioration, coloration or other sonic artifacts.
It is worth noting that Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab stands out as one of few record labels that independently invests in research and development of audio technology. With proprietary innovations such as GAIN 2™, general music enthusiasts and audiophiles alike have reaped the benefit of a higher consumer audio standard without investing in costly new hardware. Mobile Fidelity is pleased to work with a variety of engineering legends and companies including Tim de Paravicini, Ed Meitner, Pass Labs, Lipinski Sound and Sony Electronics. Our joint efforts to seek out the ultimate audio experience, has resulted in significant advances for the technology of music reproduction.
Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab has been the undisputed pioneer and leader in audiophile recordings since the company's inception in 1977. Established by dedicated audiophiles, Mobile Fidelity's first and foremost goal was to offer faithfully reproduced high fidelity recordings that would complement the numerous advances occurring in audio delivery systems. Throughout its history, Mobile Fidelity has remained true to this goal, pioneering state-of-the-art technologies and setting audiophile standards that remain in place today.
In response to rapid advancements in both recording formats and audio delivery systems over the past several years, Mobile Fidelity has maintained its ongoing commitment to improving industry standards. This has resulted in the introduction of numerous innovations in the audiophile arena: half-speed mastered Original Master Recording™ LPs, Ultra High Quality Records™ (UHQRs), high fidelity cassettes, consumer alignment devices for phono cartridges and audio cassette decks, Original Master Recording™ compact discs, the 24-karat gold plated Ultradisc™ CD and the Ultradisc™ Ultra High Resolution™ (UHR). To this day the independently owned firm continues its commitment to exceeding industry standards.”
This is from their website.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 5, 2022 20:01:41 GMT -5
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Post by jbrunwa on Aug 6, 2022 10:53:48 GMT -5
Well at least this statement straightforwardly addresses the issue. The other text was just filled with marketing language IMO. Updating product descriptions to include the provenance is very useful info. |
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 6, 2022 11:43:28 GMT -5
You’re right about sharing of the article being problematic…..I couldn’t get there without going down the subscription path |
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Post by jbrunwa on Aug 6, 2022 13:26:08 GMT -5
You’re right about sharing of the article being problematic…..I couldn’t get there without going down the subscription path Sorry about that. I have a subscription and am supposed to be able to share some articles each month, but maybe it pits a limit on the number of views. It gave a pretty good timeline of events. |
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 6, 2022 13:59:30 GMT -5
You’re right about sharing of the article being problematic…..I couldn’t get there without going down the subscription path Sorry about that. I have a subscription and am supposed to be able to share some articles each month, but maybe it pits a limit on the number of views. It gave a pretty good timeline of events. I’ll give it a shot tonight from the desktop…… There’s always a way to hack it or skin the cat easier from there than on the phone. |
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Post by jbrunwa on Aug 6, 2022 14:45:06 GMT -5
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LCSeminole
Global Moderator 
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,848
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Post by LCSeminole on Aug 6, 2022 14:45:53 GMT -5
All I want to say is I have all six of the Billy Joel SACD's that Mobile Fidelity offers, and they sound fantastic on my new speakers!
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 6, 2022 15:10:52 GMT -5
I Thank you for that! If I get on the PC tonight, my wife may hurt me. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 6, 2022 15:51:03 GMT -5
I still have many of Mobile Fidelity’s original Direct to Disc LPs (some unopened), and even got to watch the recording of the Harry James Orchestra Direct to Disc in the Capital Records building in Hollywood (the one that looks like a stack of discs). We could watch the musicians playing in one room, then follow a bunch of cables down the hall and see the record lathe cutting the disc (I don’t think there was anything digital going on there 🙂). The musicians have to play the entire side of the record in real time, and if they make a mistake, stop, put on a new lacquer master, and start the side over. We also got to talk with Doug Sax, mastering engineer extraordinaire, and producer on that album I believe, At one point as the musicians took a break between sides, it got quiet and everyone started whispering “Elvis is dead!”, it was August 16, 1977 (the week after next will be 55 years!) Historically, two years later, Ry Cooder’s “Bop Till You Drop” became the first digitally mastered record released from a major label. It’s a great recording, both musically and sonically (I have to check, but I think my wife broke my original LP).   |
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Post by jbrunwa on Aug 6, 2022 16:20:22 GMT -5
I still have many of Mobile Fidelity’s original Direct to Disc LPs (some unopened), and even got to watch the recording of the Harry James Orchestra Direct to Disc in the Capital Records building in Hollywood (the one that looks like a stack of discs). We could watch the musicians playing in one room, then follow a bunch of cables down the hall and see the record lathe cutting the disc (I don’t think there was anything digital going on there 🙂). The musicians have to play the entire side of the record in real time, and if they make a mistake, stop, put on a new lacquer master, and start the side over. We also got to talk with Doug Sax, mastering engineer extraordinaire, and producer on that album I believe, At one point as the musicians took a break between sides, it got quiet and everyone started whispering “Elvis is dead!”, it was August 16, 1977 (the week after next will be 55 years!) Historically, two years later, Ry Cooder’s “Bop Till You Drop” became the first digitally mastered record released from a major label. It’s a great recording, both musically and sonically (I have to check, but I think my wife broke my original LP). View AttachmentView AttachmentGreat story! Ok, now I just had to listen to “Bop Till You Drop”! On Apple Music! |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 6, 2022 16:23:09 GMT -5
I still have many of Mobile Fidelity’s original Direct to Disc LPs (some unopened), and even got to watch the recording of the Harry James Orchestra Direct to Disc in the Capital Records building in Hollywood (the one that looks like a stack of discs). We could watch the musicians playing in one room, then follow a bunch of cables down the hall and see the record lathe cutting the disc (I don’t think there was anything digital going on there 🙂). The musicians have to play the entire side of the record in real time, and if they make a mistake, stop, put on a new lacquer master, and start the side over. We also got to talk with Doug Sax, mastering engineer extraordinaire, and producer on that album I believe, At one point as the musicians took a break between sides, it got quiet and everyone started whispering “Elvis is dead!”, it was August 16, 1977 (the week after next will be 55 years!) Historically, two years later, Ry Cooder’s “Bop Till You Drop” became the first digitally mastered record released from a major label. It’s a great recording, both musically and sonically (I have to check, but I think my wife broke my original LP). View AttachmentView AttachmentGreat story! Ok, now I just had to listen to “Bop Till You Drop”! On Apple Music! Thanks, and hope you like it, I still listen to it regularly. Speaking of Elvis, it opens with a very unique “Little Sister”. |
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Post by jbrunwa on Aug 13, 2022 13:16:25 GMT -5
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 13, 2022 16:02:08 GMT -5
So wait - If Mobile Fidelity is right and the DSD masters are as close as possible to the original analog master tapes, and THEN MoFi is using those DSD masters to stamp inferior vinyl, it makes no sense. The fix is very clear - buy the DSD version (SACD) and you'll have as close to the original master tape sound as you can get (according to Mobile Fidelity). And I don't EVER want any fool telling me that analog sounds "so much more real" again. If you want to listen to vinyl, it's a free country. I don't get to have any actual objection because I don't have a horse in that race. If you want to listen to the wonderful fidelity of cassette or of 8-track tapes, do your thing! But don't try telling me that what I listen to (digital) is in any way "less" than what you choose. The measurements are on my side. You may not care for some of the digital playback equipment floating around the marketplace, but that's your choice. Don't blame the digital storage medium for the shortcomings of the playback equipment. In analog, no matter how good your playback equipment, the storage medium itself is inherently flawed. Period. You'll never get as good a sound from your vinyl as the DSD master that it was stamped from (even if your turntable, cartridge, phono preamp, and the record itself were absolutely PERFECT). Finis |
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Post by novisnick on Aug 13, 2022 16:49:50 GMT -5
So wait - If Mobile Fidelity is right and the DSD masters are as close as possible to the original analog master tapes, and THEN MoFi is using those DSD masters to stamp inferior vinyl, it makes no sense. The fix is very clear - buy the DSD version (SACD) and you'll have as close to the original master tape sound as you can get (according to Mobile Fidelity). And I don't EVER want any fool telling me that analog sounds "so much more real" again. If you want to listen to vinyl, it's a free country. I don't get to have any actual objection because I don't have a horse in that race. If you want to listen to the wonderful fidelity of cassette or of 8-track tapes, do your thing! But don't try telling me that what I listen to (digital) is in any way "less" than what you choose. The measurements are on my side. You may not care for some of the digital playback equipment floating around the marketplace, but that's your choice. Don't blame the digital storage medium for the shortcomings of the playback equipment. In analog, no matter how good your playback equipment, the storage medium itself is inherently flawed. Period. You'll never get as good a sound from your vinyl as the DSD master that it was stamped from (even if your turntable, cartridge, phono preamp, and the record itself were absolutely PERFECT). Finis Your rant is noted, seems you protest too much. It’s only your opinion and counts for ‘not’ to me.
Finis |
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Post by tchaik on Aug 13, 2022 17:13:35 GMT -5
So wait - If Mobile Fidelity is right and the DSD masters are as close as possible to the original analog master tapes, and THEN MoFi is using those DSD masters to stamp inferior vinyl, it makes no sense. The fix is very clear - buy the DSD version (SACD) and you'll have as close to the original master tape sound as you can get (according to Mobile Fidelity). And I don't EVER want any fool telling me that analog sounds "so much more real" again. If you want to listen to vinyl, it's a free country. I don't get to have any actual objection because I don't have a horse in that race. If you want to listen to the wonderful fidelity of cassette or of 8-track tapes, do your thing! But don't try telling me that what I listen to (digital) is in any way "less" than what you choose. The measurements are on my side. You may not care for some of the digital playback equipment floating around the marketplace, but that's your choice. Don't blame the digital storage medium for the shortcomings of the playback equipment. In analog, no matter how good your playback equipment, the storage medium itself is inherently flawed. Period. You'll never get as good a sound from your vinyl as the DSD master that it was stamped from (even if your turntable, cartridge, phono preamp, and the record itself were absolutely PERFECT). Finis Your rant is noted, seems you protest too much. It’s only your opinion and counts for ‘not’ to me.
FinisI protest! |
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Post by novisnick on Aug 13, 2022 17:24:57 GMT -5
News Flash!
MoFi is trying to sell records and has miss-informed it’s process of manufacture by an omission of clarification. Now they are trying to save face, not many are stating that DSD is better than any other procedure, especially analogue tape directly to cutting lathe.
(Side note - 256 DSD is worlds away from 16, 32 or 64 DSD, worlds away!)
So of course MoFi claims its better, some cases where tapes are inaccessible or damaged, the use of digital becomes necessary if you want to save whats left of the original tape or press a new LPs. There are a few LP manufacturers that are pressing new LPs from original tapes and their sound is incredible. Better then 256 DSD, thats up to your ears.
Personally I prefer AAA LPs but when one has no other choice I will enjoy what’s available. Some cases require one to go to DSD because of rarity, one can or will pay only so much for a great recording. DSOTM for instance, the OG is better than most but a good copy that someone is willing to part with usurequires a death in the family. 🥹 A recent SACD of the same title was deemed to be of poor quality and barley satisfying.
Today I’ve listened to a few LPs that are 60+ years old and they sound a great as the day they recorded them. There wasn’t digital in the mass public arena when these were pressed.
In conclusion, the engineers at MoFi will continue to do what their told and marketing has finally decided to step up and commence damage control.
I will continue to support Analogue Production, Blue Note, Tone Poet and others that continue the tradition of producing high quality analogue records for my enjoyment. They do it at a price point that is much more in line with most enthusiasts and not the +$100 per record MoFi charges. I do have many of their products but only a couple of their One-Step products. Many others will agree and just as many will stick with digital and streaming products.
Whatever form factor you like, enjoy the music.
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Post by novisnick on Aug 13, 2022 17:26:24 GMT -5
Your rant is noted, seems you protest too much. It’s only your opinion and counts for ‘not’ to me.
FinisI protest! Noted 😁 |
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