KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,256
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Post by KeithL on Aug 9, 2022 15:12:24 GMT -5
I don't know when that changed - but it is indeed the case now. The seller can also add a "handling fee" if they like. However, in most cases, actual shipping rates are WAY UP from what they were a few years ago. Many folks have figured out the shipping is not part of the final value fee when the item sells, so high shipping rates are ways to cheat. That’s incorrect. Final value fees include paid shipping and also tax that is charged by ebay themselves, since when? Im not sure. |
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Post by gus4emo on Aug 9, 2022 17:23:35 GMT -5
Counting shipping costs as part of the "final value fee basis" is relatively new for eBay. NOTE, HOWEVER, THAT THE SHIPPING COST IS CLEARLY DISPLAYED ON EBAY... SO YOU WON'T BE SURPRISED LATER.Unfortunately actual shipping costs have gone WAY UP recently. If you're shipping something small and heavy the USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate boxes still cost about the same - and are quite economical. However, for anything larger, or for UPS and FedEx, prices are a LOT higher than they used to be. We have grown accustomed to free shipping from many places - like Amazon Prime. And many retail outlets offer relatively low cost shipping. But, as a private individual, if you simply want to ship something via UPS or FedEx, expect to pay a lot more than in the past. I can literally purchase 100 pounds of cat litter, and have it delivered with free shipping, for less than the shipping costs alone would be for me as an individual. And, yes, here at Emotiva, OUR shipping costs have gone way up as well. We can only assume that huge shippers like Amazon are receiving a major discount (although Amazon is now themselves a shipper / delivery service.) Note that, if you sell something through eBay, and ship through them, you do receive a "seller discount" on the shipping. And, yes, this will generally offset the "shipping portion of the final sale fee"... Sellers can also add an arbitrary "handling charge" (you can always check the retail shipping cost on the USPS / UPS / FedEx site.) Also, for what it's worth, if you have a PayPal account, you CAN ship anything you like through them - www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/shipping-centerThey really don't talk about it much, but it is handy, you can print your shipping label online, and I believe you get a bit of a discount. (And it doesn't have to be something you've sold through eBay.) But, all that said, as a private individual, shipping is just a lot more expensive than it used to be. (Again, unless what you have fits in a Priority Mail Flat Rate box... ) Exactly, one seller from Texas told me after I asked her to check shipping, UPS $150, FedEx $57, I said that's ridiculous, she didn't reply, lol... In my opinion, it's ridiculous that shipping is more than the price of the item. |
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Post by red5ive on Aug 9, 2022 18:16:23 GMT -5
I purchased a pr-pro from them and a couple of AVRs, but I had a negative experience with the last AVR close to 10 years ago. I ordered a Marantz SR6005 for my mancave/home office. It died within 30 days, and when I requested an exchange, they told me that it could only be handled as a manufacturer warranty claim. When I brought up the 30-day exchange policy for defective items as stated on their website, they insinuated that I somehow damaged the item because they were basically brand new units that could not be sold as new due to a cosmetic imperfection, and should otherwise be in perfect condition. They asked what speakers I had hooked up, which were 4 ohm bookshelves (good ol' Emotiva ERM-1), and they basically told me I must have cranked it up and overloaded the unit, without ever asking for me to send it back for them to investigate. And that was even after I told them it was in a small home office where the speakers are near-field (less than 5 feet all the way around) and I'm barely cranking the volume. They did have an argument though as I don't believe Marantz rated that unit for 4 ohm, but I did inquire with Denon/Marantz before I purchased it, and they said it'd be fine, and the ERM-1s aren't exactly terribly inefficient.
Anyway, after so many emails were exchanged and from the things that were said, it became obvious they were going to lose money on the unit if they exchanged it, which I'm certain was the real reason. I wasn't going to try and take legal action over a matter of $500, so I just accepted the warranty claim, that they at least handled. Fortunately the 2nd unit worked perfectly, which someone on this board bought from me when I put it up for sale. I haven't bought anything from them since.
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Post by gus4emo on Aug 9, 2022 19:08:31 GMT -5
I purchased a pr-pro from them and a couple of AVRs, but I had a negative experience with the last AVR close to 10 years ago. I ordered a Marantz SR6005 for my mancave/home office. It died within 30 days, and when I requested an exchange, they told me that it could only be handled as a manufacturer warranty claim. When I brought up the 30-day exchange policy for defective items as stated on their website, they insinuated that I somehow damaged the item because they were basically brand new units that could not be sold as new due to a cosmetic imperfection, and should otherwise be in perfect condition. They asked what speakers I had hooked up, which were 4 ohm bookshelves (good ol' Emotiva ERM-1), and they basically told me I must have cranked it up and overloaded the unit, without ever asking for me to send it back for them to investigate. And that was even after I told them it was in a small home office where the speakers are near-field (less than 5 feet all the way around) and I'm barely cranking the volume. They did have an argument though as I don't believe Marantz rated that unit for 4 ohm, but I did inquire with Denon/Marantz before I purchased it, and they said it'd be fine, and the ERM-1s aren't exactly terribly inefficient. Anyway, after so many emails were exchanged and from the things that were said, it became obvious they were going to lose money on the unit if they exchanged it, which I'm certain was the real reason. I wasn't going to try and take legal action over a matter of $500, so I just accepted the warranty claim, that they at least handled. Fortunately the 2nd unit worked perfectly, which someone on this board bought from me when I put it up for sale. I haven't bought anything from them since. Interesting... |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,256
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Post by KeithL on Aug 10, 2022 11:38:31 GMT -5
I don't specifically disagree... at least in most cases. HOWEVER you need to bear in mind that the seller is not the shipper (except maybe Amazon). (So there's not much point in complaining to the seller about the shipping cost.) And, in practice, why would you really care about anything except "what it's going to cost you to get the item"?I can walk into my local Home Depot and buy a single big cement paver for $2 . But it would still probably cost me $80 to have it delivered (I believe that is their minimum delivery charge). And it would probably cost me nearly that much to ship it to you using UPS. Therefore you would be silly to buy that cement paver from me. (I would expect Amazon to either not sell a single cement paver or to charge a premium to offset their free Prime Shipping - although sometimes that doesn't happen.) HOWEVER, if I had a unique one-of-a-kind item, which you couldn't get anywhere else, then the ONLY thing you should be looking at is the total price. There's no reason for you to care whether it's "$80 total" or "$10 + $70 shipping" or "$80 and free shipping". (Ignoring potential shipping costs if you were to return it... which are probably independent of all that anyway.) If you actually read a book about "How To Sell Stuff On eBay" most of them suggest "covering all the options". So, if you're selling a small item, which you have a lot of... If you're selling a $10 item which will cost $10 to ship... Offer it for $10 and $10 shipping... AND offer it for $5 and $15 "shipping and handling"... AND offer it for $20 with free "shipping and handling"... AND maybe even offer it for auction, with a $1 starting bid, and $18.95 "shipping and handling"... (It's probably also a good idea to list it for $30... because that makes the other listings look like bargains.) The logic is that if the same item is available on multiple listings... - some people shop for the lowest price - other people shop for the lowest shipping cost - and some people like to make a purchase and be done - while others seem to thing they're getting a potential bargain with an auction - still others just look at the total Therefore, by covering all the options, you can make all of them happy. And, if you look at many small retail products, you will see them listed exactly this way... (There are also sometimes a few hidden benefits for the seller... for example, if I list something with "free shipping", you cannot rate me on "shipping cost".) And the only way for you, as a buyer, to avoid all this silliness is to JUST look at the bottom line cost. Counting shipping costs as part of the "final value fee basis" is relatively new for eBay. NOTE, HOWEVER, THAT THE SHIPPING COST IS CLEARLY DISPLAYED ON EBAY... SO YOU WON'T BE SURPRISED LATER.Unfortunately actual shipping costs have gone WAY UP recently. If you're shipping something small and heavy the USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate boxes still cost about the same - and are quite economical. However, for anything larger, or for UPS and FedEx, prices are a LOT higher than they used to be. We have grown accustomed to free shipping from many places - like Amazon Prime. And many retail outlets offer relatively low cost shipping. But, as a private individual, if you simply want to ship something via UPS or FedEx, expect to pay a lot more than in the past. I can literally purchase 100 pounds of cat litter, and have it delivered with free shipping, for less than the shipping costs alone would be for me as an individual. And, yes, here at Emotiva, OUR shipping costs have gone way up as well. We can only assume that huge shippers like Amazon are receiving a major discount (although Amazon is now themselves a shipper / delivery service.) Note that, if you sell something through eBay, and ship through them, you do receive a "seller discount" on the shipping. And, yes, this will generally offset the "shipping portion of the final sale fee"... Sellers can also add an arbitrary "handling charge" (you can always check the retail shipping cost on the USPS / UPS / FedEx site.) Also, for what it's worth, if you have a PayPal account, you CAN ship anything you like through them - www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/shipping-centerThey really don't talk about it much, but it is handy, you can print your shipping label online, and I believe you get a bit of a discount. (And it doesn't have to be something you've sold through eBay.) But, all that said, as a private individual, shipping is just a lot more expensive than it used to be. (Again, unless what you have fits in a Priority Mail Flat Rate box... ) In my opinion, it's ridiculous that shipping is more than the price of the item. |
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Post by gus4emo on Aug 10, 2022 18:08:13 GMT -5
I don't specifically disagree... at least in most cases. HOWEVER you need to bear in mind that the seller is not the shipper (except maybe Amazon). (So there's not much point in complaining to the seller about the shipping cost.) And, in practice, why would you really care about anything except "what it's going to cost you to get the item"?I can walk into my local Home Depot and buy a single big cement paver for $2 . But it would still probably cost me $80 to have it delivered (I believe that is their minimum delivery charge). And it would probably cost me nearly that much to ship it to you using UPS. Therefore you would be silly to buy that cement paver from me. (I would expect Amazon to either not sell a single cement paver or to charge a premium to offset their free Prime Shipping - although sometimes that doesn't happen.) HOWEVER, if I had a unique one-of-a-kind item, which you couldn't get anywhere else, then the ONLY thing you should be looking at is the total price. There's no reason for you to care whether it's "$80 total" or "$10 + $70 shipping" or "$80 and free shipping". (Ignoring potential shipping costs if you were to return it... which are probably independent of all that anyway.) If you actually read a book about "How To Sell Stuff On eBay" most of them suggest "covering all the options". So, if you're selling a small item, which you have a lot of... If you're selling a $10 item which will cost $10 to ship... Offer it for $10 and $10 shipping... AND offer it for $5 and $15 "shipping and handling"... AND offer it for $20 with free "shipping and handling"... AND maybe even offer it for auction, with a $1 starting bid, and $18.95 "shipping and handling"... (It's probably also a good idea to list it for $30... because that makes the other listings look like bargains.) The logic is that if the same item is available on multiple listings... - some people shop for the lowest price - other people shop for the lowest shipping cost - and some people like to make a purchase and be done - while others seem to thing they're getting a potential bargain with an auction - still others just look at the total Therefore, by covering all the options, you can make all of them happy. And, if you look at many small retail products, you will see them listed exactly this way... (There are also sometimes a few hidden benefits for the seller... for example, if I list something with "free shipping", you cannot rate me on "shipping cost".) And the only way for you, as a buyer, to avoid all this silliness is to JUST look at the bottom line cost. In my opinion, it's ridiculous that shipping is more than the price of the item. I understand what you are saying, if I want a very specific item, I might say "ok, whatever, let's go for it", but a pair of say Bose 201s, the seller can get packing materials and add it to the cost, but I guarantee you that shipment is not going to be $157... |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,256
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Post by KeithL on Aug 11, 2022 11:10:47 GMT -5
I agree that sounds like quite a bit... And, to be fair, I wouldn't pay nearly that much for those speakers... (But, also to be fair, I was never that fond of that model either  .) I just did a quick look on eBay and I'm seeing between $20 and $70 for shipping on those... (And the speakers themselves don't seem to go for all that much.) However... not counting packing... An eight pound box - about 24 x 7 x 12 inches - cost me $62 USPS priority mail from Tennessee to California about three months ago. And UPS would only have been a few dollars less. (And some commercial dealers expect to be paid for the box, and the bubble wrap, and the labor of packing them.) Again... the best advice is to look at the final total... and make your decision based on that. I don't specifically disagree... at least in most cases. HOWEVER you need to bear in mind that the seller is not the shipper (except maybe Amazon). (So there's not much point in complaining to the seller about the shipping cost.) And, in practice, why would you really care about anything except "what it's going to cost you to get the item"?I can walk into my local Home Depot and buy a single big cement paver for $2 . But it would still probably cost me $80 to have it delivered (I believe that is their minimum delivery charge). And it would probably cost me nearly that much to ship it to you using UPS. Therefore you would be silly to buy that cement paver from me. (I would expect Amazon to either not sell a single cement paver or to charge a premium to offset their free Prime Shipping - although sometimes that doesn't happen.) HOWEVER, if I had a unique one-of-a-kind item, which you couldn't get anywhere else, then the ONLY thing you should be looking at is the total price. There's no reason for you to care whether it's "$80 total" or "$10 + $70 shipping" or "$80 and free shipping". (Ignoring potential shipping costs if you were to return it... which are probably independent of all that anyway.) If you actually read a book about "How To Sell Stuff On eBay" most of them suggest "covering all the options". So, if you're selling a small item, which you have a lot of... If you're selling a $10 item which will cost $10 to ship... Offer it for $10 and $10 shipping... AND offer it for $5 and $15 "shipping and handling"... AND offer it for $20 with free "shipping and handling"... AND maybe even offer it for auction, with a $1 starting bid, and $18.95 "shipping and handling"... (It's probably also a good idea to list it for $30... because that makes the other listings look like bargains.) The logic is that if the same item is available on multiple listings... - some people shop for the lowest price - other people shop for the lowest shipping cost - and some people like to make a purchase and be done - while others seem to thing they're getting a potential bargain with an auction - still others just look at the total Therefore, by covering all the options, you can make all of them happy. And, if you look at many small retail products, you will see them listed exactly this way... (There are also sometimes a few hidden benefits for the seller... for example, if I list something with "free shipping", you cannot rate me on "shipping cost".) And the only way for you, as a buyer, to avoid all this silliness is to JUST look at the bottom line cost. I understand what you are saying, if I want a very specific item, I might say "ok, whatever, let's go for it", but a pair of say Bose 201s, the seller can get packing materials and add it to the cost, but I guarantee you that shipment is not going to be $157... |
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Post by monkumonku on Aug 11, 2022 11:58:14 GMT -5
I don't specifically disagree... at least in most cases. HOWEVER you need to bear in mind that the seller is not the shipper (except maybe Amazon). (So there's not much point in complaining to the seller about the shipping cost.) And, in practice, why would you really care about anything except "what it's going to cost you to get the item"?I can walk into my local Home Depot and buy a single big cement paver for $2 . But it would still probably cost me $80 to have it delivered (I believe that is their minimum delivery charge). And it would probably cost me nearly that much to ship it to you using UPS. Therefore you would be silly to buy that cement paver from me. (I would expect Amazon to either not sell a single cement paver or to charge a premium to offset their free Prime Shipping - although sometimes that doesn't happen.) HOWEVER, if I had a unique one-of-a-kind item, which you couldn't get anywhere else, then the ONLY thing you should be looking at is the total price. There's no reason for you to care whether it's "$80 total" or "$10 + $70 shipping" or "$80 and free shipping". (Ignoring potential shipping costs if you were to return it... which are probably independent of all that anyway.) If you actually read a book about "How To Sell Stuff On eBay" most of them suggest "covering all the options". So, if you're selling a small item, which you have a lot of... If you're selling a $10 item which will cost $10 to ship... Offer it for $10 and $10 shipping... AND offer it for $5 and $15 "shipping and handling"... AND offer it for $20 with free "shipping and handling"... AND maybe even offer it for auction, with a $1 starting bid, and $18.95 "shipping and handling"... (It's probably also a good idea to list it for $30... because that makes the other listings look like bargains.) The logic is that if the same item is available on multiple listings... - some people shop for the lowest price - other people shop for the lowest shipping cost - and some people like to make a purchase and be done - while others seem to thing they're getting a potential bargain with an auction - still others just look at the total Therefore, by covering all the options, you can make all of them happy. And, if you look at many small retail products, you will see them listed exactly this way... (There are also sometimes a few hidden benefits for the seller... for example, if I list something with "free shipping", you cannot rate me on "shipping cost".) And the only way for you, as a buyer, to avoid all this silliness is to JUST look at the bottom line cost. I understand what you are saying, if I want a very specific item, I might say "ok, whatever, let's go for it", but a pair of say Bose 201s, the seller can get packing materials and add it to the cost, but I guarantee you that shipment is not going to be $157... But that's the advantage of a free market system. No one forces anyone to buy anything (and we have a choice of speakers). If there's no demand at those prices then the seller either has to lower the price or get lost.  There's no "comrade, that's all there is, take it or leave it." |
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Post by gus4emo on Aug 11, 2022 17:52:35 GMT -5
I agree that sounds like quite a bit... And, to be fair, I wouldn't pay nearly that much for those speakers... (But, also to be fair, I was never that fond of that model either .) I just did a quick look on eBay and I'm seeing between $20 and $70 for shipping on those... (And the speakers themselves don't seem to go for all that much.) However... not counting packing... An eight pound box - about 24 x 7 x 12 inches - cost me $62 USPS priority mail from Tennessee to California about three months ago. And UPS would only have been a few dollars less. (And some commercial dealers expect to be paid for the box, and the bubble wrap, and the labor of packing them.) Again... the best advice is to look at the final total... and make your decision based on that. I understand what you are saying, if I want a very specific item, I might say "ok, whatever, let's go for it", but a pair of say Bose 201s, the seller can get packing materials and add it to the cost, but I guarantee you that shipment is not going to be $157... Again, I understand what you are saying, and speaking of speakers, sometimes we just want something that would do just fine according to the purpose, and again that shipping was ridiculous, I wouldn't care if it was the last pair available on the planet...lol... |
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Post by gus4emo on Aug 11, 2022 17:53:34 GMT -5
I understand what you are saying, if I want a very specific item, I might say "ok, whatever, let's go for it", but a pair of say Bose 201s, the seller can get packing materials and add it to the cost, but I guarantee you that shipment is not going to be $157... But that's the advantage of a free market system. No one forces anyone to buy anything (and we have a choice of speakers). If there's no demand at those prices then the seller either has to lower the price or get lost. There's no "comrade, that's all there is, take it or leave it." Of course, well, I did leave it...lol... |
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Many folks have figured out the shipping is not part of the final value fee when the item sells, so high shipping rates are ways to cheat.That’s incorrect. Final value fees include paid shipping and also tax that is charged by ebay themselves, since when? Im not sure. 
.)
There's no "comrade, that's all there is, take it or leave it."