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Post by chippower on Aug 11, 2022 12:45:30 GMT -5
Hi everyone, I'm a new member to the Lounge, inspired to join you by my purchase of a BASX A2 amplifier! Looks like you have a good group here. I hate to bundle my introduction with a request for help but my initial hook-up didn't go as planned and I'm wondering if anyone here has a suggestion for me. I'll try to keep it brief (BTW, I have already spoken to product support and tried unsuccessfully to find a similar existing thread so I'm casting a wider net here). My receiver, acting as pre-amp, is a 6-ish month old Yamaha R-N602. At the time I bought it, I had no plans to add an amp but my new speakers seem to need more power so I checked out the back of the Yamaha and it had two sets of "Line Out" RCA connections so I said a little yippee and ended up buying the A2. Joke on me: Yamaha's "Line Out" isn't a synonym for pre-out. Upon hitting the play button on a CD I nearly lost my hearing as the full volume of music was passed through the A2 (evidently it goes even higher than 11  ). The easy fix would be to replace the Yammy. I'm loathe to do that considering all the time, money, hassle involved. One solution I've unearthed on internet is a "line out converter" which is basically a little box with RCA inputs on one end and two short pairs of speaker wire on the other end. The bare wire connects to the receiver's speaker outputs, and the RCA connects to the power amp. One example of this is the Bully BP-LOC-15 (I have no idea whether this is a particularly good or bad version). Emo Product Support tells me this will technically work and won't void the warranty but that I'll get suboptimal audio from it. So, to sum up, I guess I have a 2-part question: Does anyone here have experience, good or bad, with a line out converter, and/or any other suggestions for enabling me to keep and use both amps? Pleased to meet you, and thanks very much in advance for any insights! Chip |
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Post by mgbpuff on Aug 11, 2022 13:20:06 GMT -5
Buy an Emotiva preamp. Delegate the Yamaha to another room with different speakers. The Bully thing is junk.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 11, 2022 13:21:23 GMT -5
Welcome to the lounge chippower ! I’d expect the Yamaha’s “Line Out” is what is traditionally referred to as a “Tape Out”, which taps into the signal chain before the Volume control so that your recordings are unaffected by your listening level (and a little cleaner). While I’d expect the line converter you’ve found might work (they are also found in some subwoofers), you will be bringing whatever good and bad goes along with the Yamaha’s power amp section as input to the BasX. Personally I’d use the Yamaha’s amps by themselves before doing that (leaving the BasX unused). If you want to use the BasX, I’d either get a different receiver with true preamp outputs, or a separate preamp or processor. Sorry, just my opinion, probably not what you wanted to hear. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 11, 2022 14:08:33 GMT -5
Your easiest & least expensive option is to purchase a remote controlled passive volume control from Amazon. Plug the Yamaha’s line outs into the passive volume control’s inputs. Plug the passive volume control’s outputs into your power amp. It won’t degrade the sound at all and you’ll be able to remotely control the volume via the passive box’s remote. Done!
Boomzilla
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Aug 11, 2022 14:18:06 GMT -5
I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree with the bad news. Those "Line Outs" do look like Tape Outs... It looks like they might provide outputs from both the other regular inputs and the "internal inputs" like BlueTooth and the streaming stuff... The good news is that some of those "high-level-to-low level-converters" work just fine. (Look for one that is passive and uses plain old resistors... or you could even build one.) The bad news is that the receiver you've got probably isn't that good... But, even worse, the amplifiers are the part you'd probably MOST want to bypass... (And you aren't going to be using them anyway.) There is another option that MIGHT work... That would be to use the Line Outputs and add an external Volume Control... You could put an actual simple preamp between the Yamaha and the A2... (Note that you will probably be able to use all of the input stuff for the Yamaha but NOT Tone Controls and such.) Or, if the level is sufficient, you could use a passive Volume Control like one of these: www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Precision-Passive-Controller-Preamplifier/dp/B07GRLV7XGwww.amazon.com/SynoRiver-Precision-Passive-Preamp-Preamplifier/dp/B08TC7QQW5www.amazon.com/Audio-Controller-Control-attenuator-RC11/dp/B08TBMP54XNote that these DO NOT boost the level so whether you will be able to drive the amp to full Volume will depend on the level the Yamaha is putting out. (But they start at around $20 so it wouldn't cost much to try and might at least offer a decent temporary solution.) |
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Post by chippower on Aug 11, 2022 16:34:00 GMT -5
Hi, thanks all for your replies. If I'm following Boom and Keith correctly, the "Nobsound High Precision Passive Preamp Volume Controller VOL Control HiFi Preamplifier ALPS" might do the trick? Looks fairly solid. Schiit also makes a device with a volume knob called a SYS but that's a splitter which I don't need.
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 11, 2022 17:16:12 GMT -5
Easy answer:Yamaha R-N602= Ebay. A relatively new unit like that should be easy enough to unload. Better alternative to going down the unintended road.
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Post by gus4emo on Aug 13, 2022 20:22:16 GMT -5
Your easiest & least expensive option is to purchase a remote controlled passive volume control from Amazon. Plug the Yamaha’s line outs into the passive volume control’s inputs. Plug the passive volume control’s outputs into your power amp. It won’t degrade the sound at all and you’ll be able to remotely control the volume via the passive box’s remote. Done! Boomzilla Hi Boom, is there a unit like that with tone controls built in? |
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 13, 2022 20:26:44 GMT -5
Your easiest & least expensive option is to purchase a remote controlled passive volume control from Amazon. Plug the Yamaha’s line outs into the passive volume control’s inputs. Plug the passive volume control’s outputs into your power amp. It won’t degrade the sound at all and you’ll be able to remotely control the volume via the passive box’s remote. Done! Boomzilla Hi Boom, is there a unit like that with tone controls built in? Not that I know of. Because the unit is passive, the filters for the tone controls couldn't know what impedance they'd be working with. If the source or destination impedances varied, the turnover points of the tone controls would vary wildly. |
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Post by gus4emo on Aug 13, 2022 20:37:38 GMT -5
Hi Boom, is there a unit like that with tone controls built in? Not that I know of. Because the unit is passive, the filters for the tone controls couldn't know what impedance they'd be working with. If the source or destination impedances varied, the turnover points of the tone controls would vary wildly. So the sound going to the amp will only be volume controlled, and flat... |
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 13, 2022 21:28:27 GMT -5
So the sound going to the amp will only be volume controlled, and flat... Correct. If you want tone, you could do it in the digital domain on the source end (Roon, jRiver or whatever you use as a file player), or you could do it analog with an active EQ like a Schiit Loki. But you DON’T want to have to redigitize the analog signal, apply EQ, and then have to reconvert it to an analog signal. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 14, 2022 10:54:17 GMT -5
Your easiest & least expensive option is to purchase a remote controlled passive volume control from Amazon. Plug the Yamaha’s line outs into the passive volume control’s inputs. Plug the passive volume control’s outputs into your power amp. It won’t degrade the sound at all and you’ll be able to remotely control the volume via the passive box’s remote. Done! Boomzilla Hi Boom, is there a unit like that with tone controls built in? Yes, it’s called a preamp! Edit: If you follow the kludge solution to save a buck, there will be more components, and always something missing, get the right component for the job. |
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Post by vcautokid on Aug 14, 2022 15:22:03 GMT -5
It is an old truth. Entry to mid level receivers will not have pre outs. Has been that was since cave man days. It is funny where the entry to mid line receivers would benefit most by pre outs don't get them. Solution and suggestion to manufacturers. Take out the stupid DSP modes like stadium and wide-screen or George Lucas' house, and put in pre outs. Problem solved. Yeah high level to low level conversion will be fine. Follow Keith here.
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Post by gus4emo on Aug 15, 2022 9:36:52 GMT -5
Hi Boom, is there a unit like that with tone controls built in? Yes, it’s called a preamp! Lol... |
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Post by chippower on Aug 17, 2022 15:57:45 GMT -5
Hi all, thanks again for the responses on this inquiry. After much deliberation, I've been won over by the arguments to get a preamp, so won't have anything to share regarding the workaround approach or the devices that Keith so kindly suggested.
The Yamaha will move to my office/mancave to replace a Technics SA-203 receiver that I purchased in college (~1982) and have dragged around to every place I've lived since then. The thing just will not die, I don't know what to do with it now. I will miss its glowing tuner window but will certainly love the additional capabilities that the Yammy will bring to my 10x14 space.
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 17, 2022 18:05:31 GMT -5
Hi all, thanks again for the responses on this inquiry. After much deliberation, I've been won over by the arguments to get a preamp, so won't have anything to share regarding the workaround approach or the devices that Keith so kindly suggested. The Yamaha will move to my office/mancave to replace a Technics SA-203 receiver that I purchased in college (~1982) and have dragged around to every place I've lived since then. The thing just will not die, I don't know what to do with it now. I will miss its glowing tuner window but will certainly love the additional capabilities that the Yammy will bring to my 10x14 space. Great move! You’ll be happier in the long run (no doubt). Your thread had me thinking of how many preamps I’ve had since I got started and I count 5. Interesting how between then and now, the preamp has become the most sophisticated piece in the mix. IMHO |
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Post by leonski on Aug 17, 2022 22:41:57 GMT -5
ALL is Not Lost.
In years past? you could get impedance matching transformers to couple the speaker outputs to the inputs of an amplifier.
speaker outs are very low impedance.
I may have a look later, but I know its been years since I've seen such a thing.
Solution 'B'? Open the receiver and see if the amplifier is 'jumpered' to the preamp. I did this to my Kenwood KA7100 many years ago and used the preamp section
for several years until I could afford the preamp I wanted.....which at that point was a NAD1700.
If it's all pretty much on a single board? You're pretty much up against the wall.
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Post by leonski on Aug 17, 2022 22:44:22 GMT -5
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Post by leonski on Aug 18, 2022 1:08:38 GMT -5
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 18, 2022 2:40:42 GMT -5
Let it go, he decided to get a preamp!
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). The easy fix would be to replace the Yammy. I'm loathe to do that considering all the time, money, hassle involved. 
