Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Oct 18, 2022 9:58:16 GMT -5
It may sound like a great idea, but not everyone thinks Amir is the end all, be all of electronics testing. he is not without controversy. Also, as a company, it's got to be a bit humiliating to have to be validated by an outside source that is not an organization such as Consumer Reports or other independent testing group. Even CR has been challenged in the past on testing parameters and methodology. Nothing against Amir, and I think it's great that people have the knowledge and equipment to run their own tests. What I find very interesting, if you go to Amir's site, you will see that 95% of AV processors and receivers are NOT recommended by Amir. Regardless of manufacturer. So there are alot of people out there with processors that are not up to par from Yamaha, Onkyo, Marantz, etc. These are just my thoughts and opinions...for what they are worth. I hear you. I didn't know of Amir until the noise of the "failed test" that seamed to go on forever. In the end he was right in finding n issue, which Emo fixed. Im suggesting Emo learn from the past and use it to their advantage. No different to using other influencers out there to get the buzz out. Imagine if the G4P models have a SINAD score of 105 or higher. What is that saying…our lowly emotiva processors sound better than the $20k+ processors out there. Seems like a compelling story if it’s achievable. If not, then at least be better than 85 that the XMC2 received. |
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Post by Natural1 on Oct 18, 2022 10:19:05 GMT -5
I hear you. I didn't know of Amir until the noise of the "failed test" that seamed to go on forever. In the end he was right in finding n issue, which Emo fixed. Im suggesting Emo learn from the past and use it to their advantage. No different to using other influencers out there to get the buzz out. Totally agree with this. I'm not of the opinion that measurements mean everything (especially inaudible stuff), but it definitely can't hurt. Look at Marantz... They have enabled DAC filter switching in the 2023 AVRs. One of the ASR "complaints" was the slow/shallow DAC filter. Now users can switch between the "Marantz default" to a steep filter that will please the folks more interested in measurement performance. As I understand it, those filter settings are generally built in to the DACs, so it's probably < 100 lines of code to enable switching and add the option in the UI. Win-Win. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 18, 2022 11:04:56 GMT -5
So I emailed Emotiva asking if they will offer the trade in for us here in Europe, and the only answer I got is that they are not doing trade-ins at the moment. Go figure... Anybody from Emotiva wishing to chime in? Well that’s an accurate answer, I don’t think anyone is going to challenge it. I would go as far as saying that if you heard more, it’s likely to change for a program that was just announced and is roughly a year away. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 18, 2022 11:18:20 GMT -5
I hear you. I didn't know of Amir until the noise of the "failed test" that seamed to go on forever. In the end he was right in finding n issue, which Emo fixed. Im suggesting Emo learn from the past and use it to their advantage. No different to using other influencers out there to get the buzz out. Imagine if the G4P models have a SINAD score of 105 or higher. What is that saying…our lowly emotiva processors sound better than the $20k+ processors out there. Seems like a compelling story if it’s achievable. If not, then at least be better than 85 that the XMC2 received. I think one of the reasons reviewers like ASR have become more important is that manufacturers aren’t publishing measurements the way they did in the past. I’m sure many of us remember the detailed measurements released by Emotiva with the XMC-1, we never saw anything like that for the G3P (other manufacturers seem to be minimizing published measurements as well). So a third party with the tools (and understanding how to use them) gains value, the information provided to make the fixes sited is valuable too, hopefully the methodology remains standard and consistent. |
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cawgijoe
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"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Oct 18, 2022 12:37:04 GMT -5
Imagine if the G4P models have a SINAD score of 105 or higher. What is that saying…our lowly emotiva processors sound better than the $20k+ processors out there. Seems like a compelling story if it’s achievable. If not, then at least be better than 85 that the XMC2 received. I think one of the reasons reviewers like ASR have become more important is that manufacturers aren’t publishing measurements the way they did in the past. I’m sure many of us remember the detailed measurements released by Emotiva with the XMC-1, we never saw anything like that for the G3P (other manufacturers seem to be minimizing published measurements as well). So a third party with the tools (and understanding how to use them) gains value, the information provided to make the fixes sited is valuable too, hopefully the methodology remains standard and consistent. I agree that sites such as ASR can be valuable, especially if they run tests and then reach out to manufacturers to discuss their results. if the manufacturer is responsive, they can verify the test results to make sure that there were no errors made while performing the tests and then answering or making a change if needed. However, I am naturally a skeptic and without test result validation, I have a hard time just accepting published test results from these sites. The test equipment may be faulty...the way they are testing may not be correct...the unit tested may have an issue...the unit may not be set up correctly for the test...etc. So, without either a secondary result validation or test and feedback from the manufacturer, it's hard for me to accept that my XMC-2 is not up to par. I don't see all manufacturers working with Amir or other testers. Since Emotiva did originally respond to Amir and did fix the issue with the RMC-1, at least there is a history which may be beneficial. If I had read Amir's test and results on the XMC-2 before having bought the unit, I probably would not have. I certainly have enjoyed and still enjoy my XMC-2, even though I keep wondering as I listen whether there is an issue with it... Anyway, sorry for the long winded response. |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Oct 18, 2022 13:05:02 GMT -5
I think one of the reasons reviewers like ASR have become more important is that manufacturers aren’t publishing measurements the way they did in the past. I’m sure many of us remember the detailed measurements released by Emotiva with the XMC-1, we never saw anything like that for the G3P (other manufacturers seem to be minimizing published measurements as well). So a third party with the tools (and understanding how to use them) gains value, the information provided to make the fixes sited is valuable too, hopefully the methodology remains standard and consistent. I agree that sites such as ASR can be valuable, especially if they run tests and then reach out to manufacturers to discuss their results. if the manufacturer is responsive, they can verify the test results to make sure that there were no errors made while performing the tests and then answering or making a change if needed. However, I am naturally a skeptic and without test result validation, I have a hard time just accepting published test results from these sites. The test equipment may be faulty...the way they are testing may not be correct...the unit tested may have an issue...the unit may not be set up correctly for the test...etc. So, without either a secondary result validation or test and feedback from the manufacturer, it's hard for me to accept that my XMC-2 is not up to par. I don't see all manufacturers working with Amir or other testers. Since Emotiva did originally respond to Amir and did fix the issue with the RMC-1, at least there is a history which may be beneficial. If I had read Amir's test and results on the XMC-2 before having bought the unit, I probably would not have. I certainly have enjoyed and still enjoy my XMC-2, even though I keep wondering as I listen whether there is an issue with it... Anyway, sorry for the long winded response. I found the xmc2’s measurement very puzzling. Especially because Emotiva has not been shy to say that the front 3’s performance is identical across G3P and ASR only measures L/R channels. Then emotiva published their tests that was the same as ASR’s. So was it something in the firmware that degraded the SINAD numbers? From my listening experience, I can’t say I noticed a 15 dB drop in performance etc. but I think we all agree, that getting better reviews is better than worse reviews 😅. |
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Post by leonski on Oct 18, 2022 13:44:14 GMT -5
What the heck does Consumer Reports have to do with ANYTHING audio? I know they test stuff. Big Deal. I do long term tests, myself. It's called 'buy and use'......
I trust CR for Blenders. I trust 'em for TIRES, mostly. Maybe even HTIB......
But not for high end audio where sound takes a back seat to all those beloved features.
SELL THE SIZZLE
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cawgijoe
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"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Oct 18, 2022 14:03:49 GMT -5
What the heck does Consumer Reports have to do with ANYTHING audio? I know they test stuff. Big Deal. I do long term tests, myself. It's called 'buy and use'...... I trust CR for Blenders. I trust 'em for TIRES, mostly. Maybe even HTIB...... But not for high end audio where sound takes a back seat to all those beloved features. SELL THE SIZZLE It was just a choice of independent reviewer that has no affiliation with manufacturers, don't receive funding from them and they are generally well regarded. I take their reviews with a dose of salt... |
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Post by sebna on Oct 18, 2022 17:47:32 GMT -5
For me it is important how it sounds. If it sounds good that is all that matters (of course with the assumption that it meets sensible standards).
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Post by leonski on Oct 18, 2022 18:21:14 GMT -5
What the heck does Consumer Reports have to do with ANYTHING audio? I know they test stuff. Big Deal. I do long term tests, myself. It's called 'buy and use'...... I trust CR for Blenders. I trust 'em for TIRES, mostly. Maybe even HTIB...... But not for high end audio where sound takes a back seat to all those beloved features. SELL THE SIZZLE It was just a choice of independent reviewer that has no affiliation with manufacturers, don't receive funding from them and they are generally well regarded. I take their reviews with a dose of salt... What are the reviewers audio values? What is his or her opinion on something you know you do or do not like.....IOW? Can you agree or disagree with this person? And how do YOUR values line up with the reviewer? If CR says.....'It sounds like music' we learn nothing. If they remark about terrific explosions or jets screaming over, that doesn't help much, either..... I may glance at a review....with an eye towards what they 'auditioned' on any given piece of gear. Any measurements are mostly disregarded. |
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Post by Superhelmi on Oct 18, 2022 23:56:30 GMT -5
So I emailed Emotiva asking if they will offer the trade in for us here in Europe, and the only answer I got is that they are not doing trade-ins at the moment. Go figure... Anybody from Emotiva wishing to chime in? Hi, it would be very very helpfull (easier and cheaper!) if the trade in will go over the Emotiva EU Service Center in Denmark. Markus |
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Post by benvader0815 on Oct 19, 2022 3:22:13 GMT -5
Emotiva has never offered a Trade-In-Program in Europe. You had to send your product to the USA.
A Trade-In is different to an Upgrade-Program. I would bei fine with a upgrade-Program via the european Service Center and I think that will come to Europe.
I bought my rmc-1 for a good price and incl the upgrade price my payed price will be already "cheap"
Especially if the listed price raised up. In Germany ist the listed price ~6000usd incl. Tax without Upgrade.
If no Upgrade Program comes to Europe then a switch to another brand ist possible.
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Post by logitech on Oct 19, 2022 6:41:55 GMT -5
On a second e-mail I received from Emotiva, they said that they will offer trade-ins for all of their customers, including Europeans. We will have to send our unit to the distributor, in my case in Poland, not back to Emotiva headquarters in the U.S.
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calle
Minor Hero
Posts: 15
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Post by calle on Oct 19, 2022 10:59:57 GMT -5
On a second e-mail I received from Emotiva, they said that they will offer trade-ins for all of their customers, including Europeans. We will have to send our unit to the distributor, in my case in Poland, not back to Emotiva headquarters in the U.S. 🤞 |
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Post by jim80z on Oct 19, 2022 21:01:01 GMT -5
On a second e-mail I received from Emotiva, they said that they will offer trade-ins for all of their customers, including Europeans. We will have to send our unit to the distributor, in my case in Poland, not back to Emotiva headquarters in the U.S. I asked re how thing would be handled for Australians....looks like at this point in time its back to USA for those that purchased their unit from a then official reseller/distributor - unless something changes in AU wrt distributor et al between now and next year. No surprise really. |
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Post by markc on Oct 20, 2022 2:52:45 GMT -5
Our current target is summer. Dang. Well hopefully firmware 3.0 fixes some of my CEC problems or I'll probably check out the new Marantz AV 10. Exactly this. A proper firmware for your current models is needed before Summer of some as yet unspecified year. Don't go teasing about a new processor then continue to not bother to urgently sort out the ones you've already sold! The sad truth is that whether I have to pay $699 or over $1k to upgrade my still-not-fully functional-as-marketed XMC-2 to a probably-similarly-never-going-to-be-functional XMC-2+, this price is still a lot cheaper than me taking the plunge and abandoning Emotiva for another company. Effectively I am (we are) locked into junk unless I cut my losses and buy my way out of it. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Oct 20, 2022 6:45:54 GMT -5
Dang. Well hopefully firmware 3.0 fixes some of my CEC problems or I'll probably check out the new Marantz AV 10. Exactly this. A proper firmware for your current models is needed before Summer of some as yet unspecified year. Don't go teasing about a new processor then continue to not bother to urgently sort out the ones you've already sold! The sad truth is that whether I have to pay $699 or over $1k to upgrade my still-not-fully functional-as-marketed XMC-2 to a probably-similarly-never-going-to-be-functional XMC-2+, this price is still a lot cheaper than me taking the plunge and abandoning Emotiva for another company. Effectively I am (we are) locked into junk unless I cut my losses and buy my way out of it. I agree that we are "locked in" because of cost to get out, but I will disagree on the "junk" comment. My XMC-2 has been 95% there for me. I have enjoyed the product. My main complaint with the product is not that Emotiva will not address issues, it's the length of time it takes for fixes. I know this is complicated and I don't know who actually does the code for the company, but I wish they could hire someone(s) who could work and fix the issues faster. |
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Post by marcl on Oct 20, 2022 6:53:18 GMT -5
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Post by junchoon on Oct 20, 2022 15:48:56 GMT -5
Dang. Well hopefully firmware 3.0 fixes some of my CEC problems or I'll probably check out the new Marantz AV 10. Exactly this. A proper firmware for your current models is needed before Summer of some as yet unspecified year. Don't go teasing about a new processor then continue to not bother to urgently sort out the ones you've already sold! The sad truth is that whether I have to pay $699 or over $1k to upgrade my still-not-fully functional-as-marketed XMC-2 to a probably-similarly-never-going-to-be-functional XMC-2+, this price is still a lot cheaper than me taking the plunge and abandoning Emotiva for another company. Effectively I am (we are) locked into junk unless I cut my losses and buy my way out of it. IMHO, really hard to imagine the word “urgently” with regards to Emotiva’s handling of the prepro |
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 20, 2022 19:00:19 GMT -5
Watched Andor Episode 6 last night, the Eye and the Tie fighters sound awesome in Atmos 5.2.1 via the XMC-2. I have no issues with my XMC-2, although I do perform a cold start once a week or so to clear out any junk.
Cheers
Gary
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