ekpen
Minor Hero
Posts: 43 
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Post by ekpen on Nov 14, 2022 18:20:39 GMT -5
Hello: Are we getting new display on G4 processor or same like the current RMC-1 ? The RMC -1 screen is dated. It needs a rework similar to the Anthem. Also the blue lettering can be user configurable. Thanks. George. |
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Post by chipless on Nov 16, 2022 21:43:12 GMT -5
So, I am confused: Is DLBC coming or not to the XMC-2?
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Post by AudioHTIT on Nov 16, 2022 22:45:19 GMT -5
So, I am confused: Is DLBC coming or not to the XMC-2? It should come to the replacement, the XMC-2+. If you read the first two posts in this thread you can learn about them. So no, not the XMC-2. |
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Post by chipless on Nov 16, 2022 23:30:23 GMT -5
So, I am confused: Is DLBC coming or not to the XMC-2? It should come to the replacement, the XMC-2+. If you read the first two posts in this thread you can learn about them. So no, not the XMC-2. Thanks, I re-read the first two posts (and searched the rest of the thread), and I still don't see where that was mentioned, but I appreciate the info nonetheless! I doubt I will be sticking with Emo until the upgrade to the XMC-2+ is available. I've literally been waiting two years already for DLBC to be an option. I don't intend to wait another two years. Anyway, thanks again for the info! |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Nov 17, 2022 0:25:32 GMT -5
It should come to the replacement, the XMC-2+. If you read the first two posts in this thread you can learn about them. So no, not the XMC-2. Thanks, I re-read the first two posts (and searched the rest of the thread), and I still don't see where that was mentioned, but I appreciate the info nonetheless! I doubt I will be sticking with Emo until the upgrade to the XMC-2+ is available. I've literally been waiting two years already for DLBC to be an option. I don't intend to wait another two years. Anyway, thanks again for the info! Ah, yes, info on Dirac has been limited, in an early page Nick says it is included, but doesn’t specifically mention DLBC, I do hope there will be more specifics (it’s even an open question in the FAQ). |
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Post by krobar on Nov 19, 2022 7:01:37 GMT -5
Yes, there are a list of features that may fall into the G4 bin, they mention the TI chipset, I expect there are other chip changes that might make those functions easier to incorporate. They apparently need more power. They mention using new TI DACs, but didn't mention the DSP. I'd be willing to bet that they're also migrating to TI DSPs as well. I believe that the Analog Devices "Griffin Lite" DSP, while a very powerful processor, may be very difficult to deploy. Could be why we continue to have ongoing issues and long periods between firmware updates. Could also be why no other manufacturer, besides D&M (who has a massive engineering team), uses it. We already know the DSP was the cause for the long delayed Dirac deployment and the resulting "black box" device to even use it. I'd also bet that they move away from Panasonic HDMI switches...  I'm not certain it will be TI but the changes are interesting. Arcam/JBL/Monoprice (Harman), Anthem and Monoprice all use the TI K2G DSP and offer all of the new features already except DTS:X Pro (Monprice and Harman also offer DLBC). Both Anthem and Harman use an identical HDMI 2.1 board and very similar DSP boards both provided by a Korean ODM, I wonder if Emotiva are moving ODM to either MDS again or the same Korean one used by Harman and Anthem. The 10X performance increase claim is odd, maybe it is for the separate streaming / general compute module as opposed to the DSP. The current TI K2G is not 10X more powerful than the G3P Sharc DSPs, also none of the current users of that DSP have managed to offer DTS:X Pro yet (Storm do it but they have completely separate DSP for post-processing so their K2G has a lot less to do). It could be Analog Devices for the DSP again, may be the same next gen unit being used by Denon/Marantz which has a much larger number of FIR accelerators and is a big upgrade over the AD DSPs in the current Emotiva units, that new Sharc DSP is getting Dirac support too. |
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Post by doc1963 on Nov 19, 2022 7:55:38 GMT -5
They mention using new TI DACs, but didn't mention the DSP. I'd be willing to bet that they're also migrating to TI DSPs as well. I believe that the Analog Devices "Griffin Lite" DSP, while a very powerful processor, may be very difficult to deploy. Could be why we continue to have ongoing issues and long periods between firmware updates. Could also be why no other manufacturer, besides D&M (who has a massive engineering team), uses it. We already know the DSP was the cause for the long delayed Dirac deployment and the resulting "black box" device to even use it. I'd also bet that they move away from Panasonic HDMI switches... I'm not certain it will be TI but the changes are interesting. Arcam/JBL/Monoprice (Harman), Anthem and Monoprice all use the TI K2G DSP and offer all of the new features already except DTS:X Pro (Monprice and Harman also offer DLBC). Both Anthem and Harman use an identical HDMI 2.1 board and very similar DSP boards both provided by a Korean ODM, I wonder if Emotiva are moving ODM to either MDS again or the same Korean one used by Harman and Anthem. The 10X performance increase claim is odd, maybe it is for the separate streaming / general compute module as opposed to the DSP. The current TI K2G is not 10X more powerful than the G3P Sharc DSPs, also none of the current users of that DSP have managed to offer DTS:X Pro yet (Storm do it but they have completely separate DSP for post-processing so their K2G has a lot less to do). It could be Analog Devices for the DSP again, may be the same next gen unit being used by Denon/Marantz which has a much larger number of FIR accelerators and is a big upgrade over the AD DSPs in the current Emotiva units, that new Sharc DSP is getting Dirac support too. Agreed… it very well could be the newer generation of AD. Sound United has moved in that direction to bring Dirac to their products. A question was asked of Marantz if Dirac could be brought down to the 8805. The answer was “no”… because the DSP used in the 8805 cannot support Dirac. Since Emotiva uses the same DSP as is used in the 8805, the entire purpose of the external “black box” needed to support Dirac on the G3Ps becomes crystal clear. Since DTS:X Pro has been supported on the 8805 for quite some time, I’m not sure exactly why it is still not deployed by its competitors. But taking into consideration that the 8805 isn’t also running Dirac, the lack of DSP horsepower needed to support both does make sense. |
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Post by webmst007 on Nov 19, 2022 8:29:10 GMT -5
There seems to be considerable interest in the new Dirac Spatial technology slated for release next year. It would appear to be a new tech rather than an enhanced version of the current "live" offering. They've been working on for sometime ( part of the Unison arm ).
This may require some changes but looks quite promising. If it's as good as they're talking about - this may have influenced the move by the big Sound United group into the Dirac camp now so they can be on board for the Dirac spatial launch/release.
I'm sure Emotiva will be looking to offer this tech with the G4P units.
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ttocs
Global Moderator 
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,168
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Post by ttocs on Nov 19, 2022 9:49:35 GMT -5
There seems to be considerable interest in the new Dirac Spatial technology slated for release next year. It would appear to be a new tech rather than an enhanced version of the current "live" offering. They've been working on for sometime ( part of the Unison arm ). This may require some changes but looks quite promising. If it's as good as they're talking about - this may have influenced the move by the big Sound United group into the Dirac camp now so they can be on board for the Dirac spatial launch/release. I'm sure Emotiva will be looking to offer this tech with the G4P units. It would actually be a good move for Emotiva because all speakers in the system would need to be very capable of both lower frequency and higher SPL, so Emotiva would be selling more of the larger speakers for Dirac Spatial to replace all the small speakers for surrounds and heights like I currently have. Small woofers need not apply. |
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Post by marcl on Nov 19, 2022 9:57:46 GMT -5
There seems to be considerable interest in the new Dirac Spatial technology slated for release next year. It would appear to be a new tech rather than an enhanced version of the current "live" offering. They've been working on for sometime ( part of the Unison arm ). This may require some changes but looks quite promising. If it's as good as they're talking about - this may have influenced the move by the big Sound United group into the Dirac camp now so they can be on board for the Dirac spatial launch/release. I'm sure Emotiva will be looking to offer this tech with the G4P units. It would actually be a good move for Emotiva because all speakers in the system would need to be very capable of both lower frequency and higher SPL, so Emotiva would be selling more of the larger speakers for Dirac Spatial to replace all the small speakers for surrounds and heights like I currently have. Small woofers need not apply. And they wouldn't have to fix the bass management bug  |
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Post by leonski on Nov 20, 2022 1:20:37 GMT -5
STILL have bass mangement 'issues' brought on by THE ROOM, which unless it is cavern-sized, WILL have walls shorter to MUCH shorter than the longest wavelengths.....
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Post by webmst007 on Nov 20, 2022 1:29:12 GMT -5
If you haven't watched the spatial introduction I recommend it. As I can attest to from PA work with line arrays and large cardioid sub configurations, there is a huge amount can be achieved with use of computer-aided sound manipulation. The example provided demonstrates a massive improvement over the current Dirac offering.
I suspect this has been discussed with a number of suppliers (I believe the Storm crew are already onboard) and will present yet another "upgrade path" for home theatre 🎭🎭🎭🎭 crazies like all of us 💯🥳😁🤪🤓🤣
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 20, 2022 9:35:34 GMT -5
If you haven't watched the spatial introduction I recommend it. As I can attest to from PA work with line arrays and large cardioid sub configurations, there is a huge amount can be achieved with use of computer-aided sound manipulation. The example provided demonstrates a massive improvement over the current Dirac offering. I suspect this has been discussed with a number of suppliers (I believe the Storm crew are already onboard) and will present yet another "upgrade path" for home theatre 🎭🎭🎭🎭 crazies like all of us 💯🥳😁🤪🤓🤣 Your experience with pro line arrays and large cardioid sub configurations, in large diffuse venues, does not transfer to small modal rooms. But, perhaps Dirac Spatial is trying to use the entire base system as an array to shape bass to mid response. I think this will require much larger drivers than are often used in home systems. Since I use 15" woofers, I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with a need to adjust speaker location to meet the needs of Dirac Spatial. It will also be a tough gig to add the height channels to the shaping array. Could be done with large neo coaxials. Good Paper - Improving Two–Way Loudspeaker Directivity aaltodoc.aalto.fi/bitstream/handle/123456789/43595/master_Kantamaa_Olli_2020.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=yAnother good link - www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/big-2-way-cardoid.20728/ |
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Post by leonski on Nov 20, 2022 14:11:59 GMT -5
Yes, Paul, I see where you are coming from with small V large room bass.
Big rooms are concerned with RT60 while in my house, I'm concerned with even response over the listening area....
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Post by webmst007 on Nov 20, 2022 14:41:49 GMT -5
Hi Paul - I did not articulate myself clearly - apologies - I did not intend to infer cardioid arrays ( or large array manipulation like beam forming ) are applicable to small room acoustic management. Rather that the behaviour these technologies are based on are the same principles and only the applications and environments change.
Having witnessed and managed the control now available at large system levels, I was simply speculating that spatial Dirac could well be quite successful in the small room scenarios ( given the appropriate level of implementation).
As you rightly point out - there are going to be a number of considerations for this to work. Number of speakers - use of heights and ceiling speakers with suitable full range output; base layer to full range and their relative spl capability (200-300watt was discussed).
No wonder the manufacturers can't wait - 7, 5 and even 9 piece kits for base layers.
I would speculate for home theatre there will be an even greater accelerated migration now away from discreet stereo and mono amplifier offerings into multi channel low heat light weight chassis to drive these arrays to adequate spl.
It will be really interesting to see how successful this tech will be when used on a standard existing 5.1 or 7.2.4 array.
There's the ongoing role of room correction absorption and diffusion.
The presenters were at some pains to explain existing measures people have invested in will still be relevant and useful. As DS matures it will be interesting to see how the tech advances towards presumably " room configuration independent" levels of correction capability.
In wall offerings will also develop to provide suitable designs to be DS- spl/ full range capable.
Some manufacturers and design teams may need to change their Ceiling and height development plans.
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 20, 2022 14:55:21 GMT -5
Yes, Paul, I see where you are coming from with small V large room bass. Big rooms are concerned with RT60 while in my house, I'm concerned with even response over the listening area.... It's a "the physics don't change" issue. As wavelengths increase, beyond 1/4 the smallest room dimension, every thing changes but the physics of sound. The room becomes a pressure chamber rather than a diffuse field that supports wave-fronts. Instead of being outside the box, you are now inside the box - by necessity, a relatively empty box. |
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Post by webmst007 on Nov 20, 2022 15:22:31 GMT -5
Agreed Paul home theatre boxes are a different scenario to large space management. The other observation I thought was relevant from their video on Spatial Dirac was the speculation around set and forget - the eventual automation of calibration. Well experience from PA work would confirm that path. When large array and Cardiod designs first came along it was diy and best efforts etc. Then the first manufacturer- provided design builders appeared (I.e. use this many of that model speaker like this and you get that outcome). Now that tech has matured whereby operators with almost no understanding of the tech can build sophisticated arrays quickly.
DS may well be intended to provide a simalar "set and forget" experience and outcome for home theatre applications.
Mind you - there might be 165 measurements needed 🤪🤣🤣
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Post by leonski on Nov 20, 2022 18:24:25 GMT -5
Paul makes a GOOD point.
But going forward?
How MANY persons can manage 165 measurements? That's gonna be HOURS of meticulous work and record keeping.......
And there MAY BE choices to make. This is good here.....but another measure is is better THERE.
And IF the Interior Decorator visits while you are out at the movies? Much work got shot to hell....
I did computer aided process design for semiconductor manufacture. ONE process.....With I don't remember how many variables.
The program spit out what amounts to a research PHD worth of work. Well over 100 'requested' runs covering all variables and a RANGE of each.
runs, counting setup and measure were maybe 4 hours EACH. Working SOLID 50 hour weeks? Works out to 8 weeks UNINTERUPTED.
And what happens if you LATER add some of those floor-to-ceiling triangle shaped corner BASS TRAPS.......Or Clouds on the ceiling?
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Post by aswiss on Nov 23, 2022 9:04:38 GMT -5
Paul makes a GOOD point. But going forward? How MANY persons can manage 165 measurements? That's gonna be HOURS of meticulous work and record keeping....... And there MAY BE choices to make. This is good here.....but another measure is is better THERE. And IF the Interior Decorator visits while you are out at the movies? Much work got shot to hell.... I did computer aided process design for semiconductor manufacture. ONE process.....With I don't remember how many variables. The program spit out what amounts to a research PHD worth of work. Well over 100 'requested' runs covering all variables and a RANGE of each. runs, counting setup and measure were maybe 4 hours EACH. Working SOLID 50 hour weeks? Works out to 8 weeks UNINTERUPTED. And what happens if you LATER add some of those floor-to-ceiling triangle shaped corner BASS TRAPS.......Or Clouds on the ceiling? In movies, you or I have a DSP (RMC-1) in chain - for Reference Stereo not, but every room has standing waves on specific frequencies.
I do not have a sub (not enough space, neighbors in the house etc.) to integrate in my system but standing waves.
I bought 2 active bass traps which did help me out of this. PSI Audio ACAA C20. You can read about the technology behind it hereThey work completely standalone, and work in every room - no setup. Just put in the corner, power on - they work.
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Post by leonski on Nov 23, 2022 15:26:38 GMT -5
Paul makes a GOOD point. But going forward? How MANY persons can manage 165 measurements? That's gonna be HOURS of meticulous work and record keeping....... And there MAY BE choices to make. This is good here.....but another measure is is better THERE. And IF the Interior Decorator visits while you are out at the movies? Much work got shot to hell.... I did computer aided process design for semiconductor manufacture. ONE process.....With I don't remember how many variables. The program spit out what amounts to a research PHD worth of work. Well over 100 'requested' runs covering all variables and a RANGE of each. runs, counting setup and measure were maybe 4 hours EACH. Working SOLID 50 hour weeks? Works out to 8 weeks UNINTERUPTED. And what happens if you LATER add some of those floor-to-ceiling triangle shaped corner BASS TRAPS.......Or Clouds on the ceiling? In movies, you or I have a DSP (RMC-1) in chain - for Reference Stereo not, but every room has standing waves on specific frequencies.
I do not have a sub (not enough space, neighbors in the house etc.) to integrate in my system but standing waves.
I bought 2 active bass traps which did help me out of this. PSI Audio ACAA C20. You can read about the technology behind it hereThey work completely standalone, and work in every room - no setup. Just put in the corner, power on - they work.
Yes.....Absolutely! Standing waves.......Since you probably can't afford enough CHAIRS...... But you can get SOME idea of your room....and a better idea if it is a regular shape....by going to a room mode calculator. www.bobgolds.com/Mode/RoomModes.htmThis is just ONE of many availlable. Some feature pretty cool graphics, while this is more 'tabular'.... Fill in your dimensions and press 'go'..... |
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