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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 6, 2022 0:20:21 GMT -5
On the provided link, where it compares the next gen to the current gen. Why does it describe the current gen as "4K HDMI 2.0 with ARC/ eARC"? Do any of the current processors support eARC? This is something I am interested in since I produce music and want a way to play back my Atmos mixes in a lossless way over my home theater system. Any of the currently shipping G3Ps can have eARC activated by firmware, the original board cannot. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 6, 2022 0:24:47 GMT -5
I wonder if the firmware update for the current processors will ever be released. To me, it seems they are raising the white flag and giving up on it. Why would you announce the next generation, when you know how long and frustrated customers have been waiting for the fixes to the current generation. Leaves an open question as to whether certain expectations will be filled with the g4p's ie are resources being put into the new line at the expense of an multichannel processing channel board that is de rigeur for many rmc owners ? Similarly will the g4ps receive a dts pro firmware upgrade or is this exclusively for those who upgrade their processor ..I suspect certain features will be used as an incentive to upgrade which makes sense as a new system could simplify things like the dirac integration .. I think this means that only the G4P will be capable of more than 16 channels, but Dirac is glaring in its absence. |
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Post by cwt on Oct 6, 2022 0:25:13 GMT -5
On the provided link, where it compares the next gen to the current gen. Why does it describe the current gen as "4K HDMI 2.0 with ARC/ eARC"? Do any of the current processors support eARC? This is something I am interested in since I produce music and want a way to play back my Atmos mixes in a lossless way over my home theater system. recently introduced  emotiva.com/products/basx-mc1-13-2-channel-dolby-atmos-dts-x-cinema-processor |
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Post by cwt on Oct 6, 2022 0:33:33 GMT -5
Leaves an open question as to whether certain expectations will be filled with the g4p's ie are resources being put into the new line at the expense of an multichannel processing channel board that is de rigeur for many rmc owners ? Similarly will the g4ps receive a dts pro firmware upgrade or is this exclusively for those who upgrade their processor ..I suspect certain features will be used as an incentive to upgrade which makes sense as a new system could simplify things like the dirac integration .. I think this means that only the G4P will be capable of more than 16 channels, but Dirac is glaring in its absence. Likely your right as the incentive will be large to upgrade to the new line [as similarly the good deal was available for the xmc1 upgrade to the g3's..] oh btw I got my g3 and g4 nomenclatures mixed up ; should have been 'will the g3's get dts xpro?] |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 6, 2022 0:49:22 GMT -5
I think this means that only the G4P will be capable of more than 16 channels, but Dirac is glaring in its absence. Likely your right as the incentive will be large to upgrade to the new line [as similarly the good deal was available for the xmc1 upgrade to the g3's..] oh btw I got my g3 and g4 nomenclatures mixed up ; should have been 'will the g3's get dts xpro?] Yes, there are a list of features that may fall into the G4 bin, they mention the TI chipset, I expect there are other chip changes that might make those functions easier to incorporate. They apparently need more power. |
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Post by bitzerjdb on Oct 6, 2022 7:12:03 GMT -5
The new product sounds great...just like the last generation sounded. It has features that Emotiva told us we didn't need and supports things that the last generation was built to support. Sorry for sounding jaded, but this announcement is a slap in the face to the people who fell for this marketing BS the last time. 10x processing power, the RMC platform was supposed to be built on a platform that could handle future needs. Until recently there was talk of an updated HDMI board to support 2.1 and 8K..now that is not possible???
I get it you need to release new product, but the current flagship product is still half baked. The excuse we heard was that you needed to prioritize development work..well, I guess we know where it was allocated, on new, not current stuff. In my case, the only way to get a functional product was purchasing an expensive HDMI switch.
I cannot fork over a large chunk of cash again on a bet that it "might" be better and that it will work out of the box....and if it doesn't work, it will be fixed quickly.
As I said in a previous post, I will be sitting on my hands, waiting and watching.
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Post by 405x5 on Oct 6, 2022 7:43:52 GMT -5
Ah Ha! (I’m sure you do!) Did your horse get plenty of water while you waited? |
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Post by doc1963 on Oct 6, 2022 8:06:59 GMT -5
Likely your right as the incentive will be large to upgrade to the new line [as similarly the good deal was available for the xmc1 upgrade to the g3's..] oh btw I got my g3 and g4 nomenclatures mixed up ; should have been 'will the g3's get dts xpro?] Yes, there are a list of features that may fall into the G4 bin, they mention the TI chipset, I expect there are other chip changes that might make those functions easier to incorporate. They apparently need more power. They mention using new TI DACs, but didn't mention the DSP. I'd be willing to bet that they're also migrating to TI DSPs as well. I believe that the Analog Devices "Griffin Lite" DSP, while a very powerful processor, may be very difficult to deploy. Could be why we continue to have ongoing issues and long periods between firmware updates. Could also be why no other manufacturer, besides D&M (who has a massive engineering team), uses it. We already know the DSP was the cause for the long delayed Dirac deployment and the resulting "black box" device to even use it. I'd also bet that they move away from Panasonic HDMI switches...  |
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Post by sebna on Oct 6, 2022 8:14:05 GMT -5
Suddenly I lost hope for DTS X Pro and Dolby counterpart, DLBC and upmixer corssmixing features for G3P platform. I am sure we will get FW3.0 as otherwise it would be a total farce.  I am having a good laugh here. I have not tested XMC-2 in the system yet and new gen is already on the way. |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Oct 6, 2022 8:55:40 GMT -5
I suspect EMO has limited manpower. Does that mean the v3.0 update is being pushed aside? Throttled down? Very upsetting.
Considering selling my six month old XMC-2 soon, adding a maximum update to my two channel system, and buying a Denon or Marantz for a thousand two thousand dollars.
Off the merry go round with great two channel sound and no loss of “movie” sound. 👍
Russ
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Post by adam631 on Oct 6, 2022 9:16:22 GMT -5
The new product sounds great...just like the last generation sounded. It has features that Emotiva told us we didn't need and supports things that the last generation was built to support. Sorry for sounding jaded, but this announcement is a slap in the face to the people who fell for this marketing BS the last time. 10x processing power, the RMC platform was supposed to be built on a platform that could handle future needs. Until recently there was talk of an updated HDMI board to support 2.1 and 8K..now that is not possible??? I get it you need to release new product, but the current flagship product is still half baked. The excuse we heard was that you needed to prioritize development work..well, I guess we know where it was allocated, on new, not current stuff. In my case, the only way to get a functional product was purchasing an expensive HDMI switch. I cannot fork over a large chunk of cash again on a bet that it "might" be better and that it will work out of the box....and if it doesn't work, it will be fixed quickly. As I said in a previous post, I will be sitting on my hands, waiting and watching. If i remember correctly, The RMC-1 was also supposed to have enough power to get Dirac at 192/24 but sadly that wasn't the case. |
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Post by zdoggz on Oct 6, 2022 9:37:42 GMT -5
A couple initial comments…
1 - Q: I see part of the next generation is a new HDMI 8K board, can I just upgrade that?
A: No. The next gen system must be done as a complete system. The current hardware does not have the capabilities to run the new components.
My comment: This indicates to me that there will be no hdmi 2.1/8k board upgrade option for the g3 processors (xmc2/rmc1l/rmc1) as originally expected. Agree?
2 - Q: What if I already have an XMC-2, RMC-1L, or RMC-1?
A: It’s hard to believe that we’ve been selling the XMC-2 and RMC-1 platforms for over 5 years now, and since the first release, we’ve had a few board upgrades along the way. Living up to our promise, your existing units will be upgradeable as well! We’ll have different price structures on the upgrade paths based on the price you paid for your processor.
My comment: This indicates to me that the upgrade cost will be higher for those who paid less for a G3P. If that is true, then does that mean that those who got their processors for less (e.g. upgrade card, promo price, refurb price, etc.) will end up paying the same total cost of ownership for their processors (essentially wiping out, or at least reducing, the sale/discount they had)?
Overall, I understand their business model and think this can/will be a win/win for them and their customers IF they do not overpromise and underdeliver on their current models (eg, this line will offer dtsx pro in a future fw update). I understand sometimes these things happen, but there is a fine line to walk when looking to set up a business model like this that relies on customer trust and retention for this “subscription like” offering (as a key differentiator). At this time, I am choosing to be cautiously optimistic and hoping for the best for everyone because I see the potential (but also not ignoring the potential downside/risk).
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Post by bitzerjdb on Oct 6, 2022 9:42:25 GMT -5
Yes, there are a list of features that may fall into the G4 bin, they mention the TI chipset, I expect there are other chip changes that might make those functions easier to incorporate. They apparently need more power. They mention using new TI DACs, but didn't mention the DSP. I'd be willing to bet that they're also migrating to TI DSPs as well. I believe that the Analog Devices "Griffin Lite" DSP, while a very powerful processor, may be very difficult to deploy. Could be why we continue to have ongoing issues and long periods between firmware updates. Could also be why no other manufacturer, besides D&M (who has a massive engineering team), uses it. We already know the DSP was the cause for the long delayed Dirac deployment and the resulting "black box" device to even use it. I'd also bet that they move away from Panasonic HDMI switches... I think you are probably right on both fronts. But...these were engineering decisions made by Emotiva and might be the cause of the headaches we have. My faith that they will get the new platform correct has been shaken. Maybe a subscription model is the best..."lease" the equipment and have a refresh every few years. But, back to reality...with my current system and the added HDMI switch, I'm pretty stable and have great sound. I have the "luxury" of being able to sit tight for a while. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 6, 2022 9:55:22 GMT -5
I don’t think this will affect FW 3.x, the G3P will still be with us for some time (anyone thinking that because we’re talking about this that it might happen soon should adjust their expectations), that said, some may be expecting more than 3.x is likely to be.
I do think that most or all of the features we might have expected in FW 4.0, will instead be in the G4P (coincidently).
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Sayer
Sensei
Chasing better sound.
Posts: 145
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Post by Sayer on Oct 6, 2022 9:59:04 GMT -5
The spec for the new processors states "Music streaming capable". What does that mean?
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 6, 2022 10:02:27 GMT -5
1 - Q: I see part of the next generation is a new HDMI 8K board, can I just upgrade that? A: No. The next gen system must be done as a complete system. The current hardware does not have the capabilities to run the new components. My comment: This indicates to me that there will be no hdmi 2.1/8k board upgrade option for the g3 processors (xmc2/rmc1l/rmc1) as originally expected. Agree? Agreed! I’d also say it ends any hope the XMC-1 might get the 2.1 board (though I personally didn’t think that would happen). 2 - Q: What if I already have an XMC-2, RMC-1L, or RMC-1? A: It’s hard to believe that we’ve been selling the XMC-2 and RMC-1 platforms for over 5 years now, and since the first release, we’ve had a few board upgrades along the way. Living up to our promise, your existing units will be upgradeable as well! We’ll have different price structures on the upgrade paths based on the price you paid for your processor. My comment: This indicates to me that the upgrade cost will be higher for those who paid less for a G3P. If that is true, then does that mean that those who got their processors for less (e.g. upgrade card, promo price, refurb price, etc.) will end up paying the same total cost of ownership for their processors (essentially wiping out, or at least reducing, the sale/discount they had)? I wondered about that too, but to penalize ‘cardholders’ would be very bad PR, I instead think they’re referring to those who buy them at the current sale prices.Overall, I understand their business model and think this can/will be a win/win for them and their customers IF they do not overpromise and underdeliver on their current models according to their promises (eg, this line will offer dtsx pro in a future fw update). I understand sometimes these things happen, but there is a fine line to walk when looking to set up a business model like this that relies on customer trust and retention for this “subscription like” offering (as their key differentiator). will say that I am choosing to be cautiously optimistic at this time and hoping for the best for everyone because I see the potential (but also not ignoring the potential downside/risk). ] 👍 |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 6, 2022 10:13:26 GMT -5
The spec for the new processors states "Music streaming capable". What does that mean? I’m sure there are plans, but this is also a good place to tell them what you’d like it to be. |
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NicS
Sensei
Will the G4 upgrade help quell my RMC1-L frustrations...?
Posts: 238
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Post by NicS on Oct 6, 2022 10:25:58 GMT -5
The spec for the new processors states "Music streaming capable". What does that mean? I think it means that Emotiva will promise that the unit will have an in built streamer, that won't ever fully be Roon compliant, be buggy and have it's promise hanging on a firmware update that will never arrive. |
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ttocs
Global Moderator 
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
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Post by ttocs on Oct 6, 2022 10:27:20 GMT -5
2 - Q: What if I already have an XMC-2, RMC-1L, or RMC-1?
A: It’s hard to believe that we’ve been selling the XMC-2 and RMC-1 platforms for over 5 years now, and since the first release, we’ve had a few board upgrades along the way. Living up to our promise, your existing units will be upgradeable as well! We’ll have different price structures on the upgrade paths based on the price you paid for your processor. My comment: This indicates to me that the upgrade cost will be higher for those who paid less for a G3P. If that is true, then does that mean that those who got their processors for less (e.g. upgrade card, promo price, refurb price, etc.) will end up paying the same total cost of ownership for their processors (essentially wiping out, or at least reducing, the sale/discount they had)? I wondered about that too, but to penalize ‘cardholders’ would be very bad PR, I instead think they’re referring to those who buy them at the current sale prices. I don't think it should matter how much anyone paid. Upgrades should cost what they cost. If someone got theirs during a promotion then so be it. If it's going to cost more if one buys a unit on sale, then that incentivizes against buying anything now if an upgrade is in the buyer's future. Right now it's a total crapshoot. It's like a car mechanic saying to the owner, yes, I can install a bigger turbo, but the price will depend on how much you paid for the car. I'm sure it'll be absolutely clear with the next podcast explaining every little nuance. I gotta say though, Emotiva better be able to demonstrate that everything works before it's released ! |
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Post by msimanyi on Oct 6, 2022 10:38:17 GMT -5
I think this means that only the G4P will be capable of more than 16 channels, but Dirac is glaring in its absence. It's just a guess, but it seems likely Dirac wouldn't allow a manufacturer to claim Dirac integration unless the contract is inked and licensing fees paid. |
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