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Post by novisnick on Oct 8, 2022 13:43:07 GMT -5
My last comments were from reading what others had posted about the podcast, let me revise my thoughts after finding time to listen to the most recent podcast.
Emotiva is worse off then I thought. Listening to that podcast was like listening to a couple of kids that were reading a script from two different plays. My God, did they even discuss what they were going to talk about?
Im not trying to be harsh but a script would have been most helpful in communicating what exact points they could agree about.
Enough about the podcast.
Its not about what each person needs to get their system to work for them, its about making a system that was promised and doing it in a timely fashion. I have upgraded my system with new fixes on a couple of occasions but each time I rolled it back as the fix wasn’t worth the mess it made. At this point I’m petrified to make any changes as Im willing to settle for the problems I have vs the ones I don’t want. Perhaps after hearing a month of success stories about 3.0x I will try again.
I know a Bussiness such as this needs to continue to bring new products to market but they need to finish the ones they started nearly 5 years ago. Under promise and over deliver was once uttered by Emotiva. Love to bring that motto and practice into the office again.
I’d like to thank Emotiva for allowing me this small space to vent, I do understand that its their resources that provide it and I am grateful. Imake these statements without malicious intent just a long time advocate of Emotiva stating his opinion.
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Post by novisnick on Oct 8, 2022 13:44:38 GMT -5
I see part of the next generation is a new HDMI 8K board, can I just upgrade that? No. The next gen system must be done as a complete system. The current hardware does not have the capabilities to run the new components. I guess I should have read the whole thing on the Emo website before commenting. I guess 4k is where my RMC-1 will be staying. That is kind of disappointing that I don't have the option, but again who knows if I would have ever done the upgrade if it was available. I would think that any 8k TV would be able to upscale 4k up to 8k. Not pure, but really who knows when we'll actually start seeing any true 8k content. Upgrade for life? Such nonsense you speak! 😏 |
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Post by davidl81 on Oct 8, 2022 15:38:32 GMT -5
My last comments were from reading what others had posted about the podcast, let me revise my thoughts after finding time to listen to the most recent podcast. Emotiva is worse off then I thought. Listening to that podcast was like listening to a couple of kids that were reading a script from two different plays. My God, did they even discuss what they were going to talk about? Im not trying to be harsh but a script would have been most helpful in communicating what exact points they could agree about. Enough about the podcast. Its not about what each person needs to get their system to work for them, its about making a system that was promised and doing it in a timely fashion. I have upgraded my system with new fixes on a couple of occasions but each time I rolled it back as the fix wasn’t worth the mess it made. At this point I’m petrified to make any changes as Im willing to settle for the problems I have vs the ones I don’t want. Perhaps after hearing a month of success stories about 3.0x I will try again. I know a Bussiness such as this needs to continue to bring new products to market but they need to finish the ones they started nearly 5 years ago. Under promise and over deliver was once uttered by Emotiva. Love to bring that motto and practice into the office again. I’d like to thank Emotiva for allowing me this small space to vent, I do understand that its their resources that provide it and I am grateful. Imake these statements without malicious intent just a long time advocate of Emotiva stating his opinion. If we remember the XMC-1 was buggy till about 12 months before the RMC-1 came out. It’s basically Elmo’s history with processors. They release one, it has bugs, it gets to a decent state but with issues still, they get all of the issues worked out (over a period of years) right before the next model comes out. This is honestly nothing different. I’m not saying this is bad or good, it’s just what it is. |
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Post by jim80z on Oct 8, 2022 19:15:57 GMT -5
So after sleeping on the news I will assume that 3.x will solve some of my needs and an expansion card is in the mix and so I thought a brain dump of some questions to move the conversation to more of a forward looking one on this forum thread:
- Love to know the differences between the current audio board and the new one.....what am I missing out on if I go for the full upgrade vs a new box?
- Im assuming the expansion cards HDMI2.1, Phono, XLR out etc are the same for current gen and the next gen processors (it would make sense if your keeping the physical architecture and audio board etc)?
- Love to know what chipsets your settling on? Eg are you going to use a single board computer, hopefully something std and off the shelf with a Linux distribution that is well maintained and Long Term Support that you can build on? DSP, CPU, Memory, etc?
- Assume the central processor and Linux will also act as the streamer you mentioned? Will u build custom sw or whitelable something from the Linux world? Hopefully the later (only customise the bits that will make you great and differentiated and the rest off the shelf).
- Will we get all the dirac toys ie higher sample rate, spatial, BM etc?
- Early guesstimate price points for the updates et al?
- Is there an early adopter/beta program?
- Logistics of the program, esp for ppl outside of the US?
- Suggest you bring Amir@AudioSciences (others) along for the ride early and avoid a bunch of noise and release a solid reviewed product.
- How will warranty work with the upgraded system? Whole of system warranty starts again or new components only? How will this work with foreign distributors?
- Is 10x processing power enough? Also dont lose sight of throughput et al between digital components? Dont get caught short per current gen.
- I know you said its a back to base upgrade but can you consider a self install model as well for those that are a bit more electronics savvy? or is this simply a matter of making sure it works as designed and testing the crap out of it before sending it back?
- Will I get my original processor back upgraded or one that you upgraded previously? Some ppl have had gremlins with their units and I don't want to inherit their shell :-)......my rmc has been a champ!
- Will you have a proper SW team working this going forward? Many people on this forum who have been in the SW industry have suggested different support/dev constructs in the past......please consider them as you will be going down a different road with its own issues.
- will shutup now and have others add or refine the above.
I totally get it if some of the Q are pushing the friendship, some Q may be trivial and its somewhat early days for others but Im sure Emo have been working this for a little while and can share more :-) Maybe EMO can answer some things here in the forum or maybe they can be taken on board for a future pod cast down the road. Appreciate anything you may want to share.
Im sure others have a lot of questions, so pile on.
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Post by novisnick on Oct 8, 2022 20:14:02 GMT -5
My last comments were from reading what others had posted about the podcast, let me revise my thoughts after finding time to listen to the most recent podcast. Emotiva is worse off then I thought. Listening to that podcast was like listening to a couple of kids that were reading a script from two different plays. My God, did they even discuss what they were going to talk about? Im not trying to be harsh but a script would have been most helpful in communicating what exact points they could agree about. Enough about the podcast. Its not about what each person needs to get their system to work for them, its about making a system that was promised and doing it in a timely fashion. I have upgraded my system with new fixes on a couple of occasions but each time I rolled it back as the fix wasn’t worth the mess it made. At this point I’m petrified to make any changes as Im willing to settle for the problems I have vs the ones I don’t want. Perhaps after hearing a month of success stories about 3.0x I will try again. I know a Bussiness such as this needs to continue to bring new products to market but they need to finish the ones they started nearly 5 years ago. Under promise and over deliver was once uttered by Emotiva. Love to bring that motto and practice into the office again. I’d like to thank Emotiva for allowing me this small space to vent, I do understand that its their resources that provide it and I am grateful. Imake these statements without malicious intent just a long time advocate of Emotiva stating his opinion. If we remember the XMC-1 was buggy till about 12 months before the RMC-1 came out. It’s basically Elmo’s history with processors. They release one, it has bugs, it gets to a decent state but with issues still, they get all of the issues worked out (over a period of years) right before the next model comes out. This is honestly nothing different. I’m not saying this is bad or good, it’s just what it is. And I’m saying it’s bad. Don’t know how you missed that. 😏 |
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Sayer
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Chasing better sound.
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Post by Sayer on Oct 8, 2022 20:53:48 GMT -5
What I would like to see is a Downgrade option with my RMC-1L...let me Downgrade to the XMC-X (whatever it will be called) for no (or very low) cost. I'm in the opposite situation. I have the XMC-2, but the DACs found on the RMC-1L are only used on the front three channels of the XMC-2, the DACs for the other channels are not as good. Now that I finally have Atmos set up and running (5.2.4 - I am so excited to be able to say this) I would like to have the better DACs all the way around. I recently purchased the T3+ and C3+ speakers and moved the T2+ to the rear channels. It sounds great, but could it be better with better DACS on the other channels? |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Oct 8, 2022 22:08:56 GMT -5
I saw that it said you can combine offers on the G3P. Does the UFL apply here as well ie UFL + dead processor trade in?
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 8, 2022 22:51:26 GMT -5
I saw that it said you can combine offers on the G3P. Does the UFL apply here as well ie UFL + dead processor trade in? You can only combine the new lower price, and the ‘bring us your dead’ promotion. UFL has never been ‘combinable’ and the discount is off of original retail. That said the combined RMC-1 discount is 40%, RMC-1L 37.5%, XMC-1 33.3% …pretty great prices, all better than UFL by itself. |
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Post by markc on Oct 9, 2022 4:03:02 GMT -5
What I would like to see is a Downgrade option with my RMC-1L...let me Downgrade to the XMC-X (whatever it will be called) for no (or very low) cost. I'm in the opposite situation. I have the XMC-2, but the DACs found on the RMC-1L are only used on the front three channels of the XMC-2, the DACs for the other channels are not as good. Now that I finally have Atmos set up and running (5.2.4 - I am so excited to be able to say this) I would like to have the better DACs all the way around. I recently purchased the T3+ and C3+ speakers and moved the T2+ to the rear channels. It sounds great, but could it be better with better DACS on the other channels? Not true. The DACS are the same on all channels. The differences are the RMC-1(L) and front 3 channels of the XMC-2 use that DAC in fully mono mode. Even a dog would be absolutely unable to tell the difference and definitely no human being that has ever lived would be able to tell in A/B testing. |
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Sayer
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Chasing better sound.
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Post by Sayer on Oct 9, 2022 12:13:15 GMT -5
I'm in the opposite situation. I have the XMC-2, but the DACs found on the RMC-1L are only used on the front three channels of the XMC-2, the DACs for the other channels are not as good. Now that I finally have Atmos set up and running (5.2.4 - I am so excited to be able to say this) I would like to have the better DACs all the way around. I recently purchased the T3+ and C3+ speakers and moved the T2+ to the rear channels. It sounds great, but could it be better with better DACS on the other channels? Not true. The DACS are the same on all channels. The differences are the RMC-1(L) and front 3 channels of the XMC-2 use that DAC in fully mono mode. Even a dog would be absolutely unable to tell the difference and definitely no human being that has ever lived would be able to tell in A/B testing. Okay, thank you for the info. May not be worth the upgrade after all. |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Oct 9, 2022 18:21:43 GMT -5
Not true. The DACS are the same on all channels. The differences are the RMC-1(L) and front 3 channels of the XMC-2 use that DAC in fully mono mode. Even a dog would be absolutely unable to tell the difference and definitely no human being that has ever lived would be able to tell in A/B testing. Okay, thank you for the info. May not be worth the upgrade after all. Saying that even a dog would not be able to tell a difference then begs the question why do the front 3 in mono mode if there is no benefit? Why waste money on additional Dacs? I do think it’s not something to worry about but there should be a slight difference. And the fact that we are talking about surrounds it does matter less. |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Oct 9, 2022 18:48:21 GMT -5
Okay, thank you for the info. May not be worth the upgrade after all. I would say that if the system is like mine, with small surrounds and smaller Heights, then it would be difficult at best to hear a difference. But it’s a big difference when the center and surrounds are the same as the fronts! Even in a 5.1 system. So when the supporting electronics are all as good on every channel it’ll be very noticeable.Prior to me experiencing great speakers on all channels I never thought it would be possible to tell the difference. In a dedicated theater I would go for all bed channels to be exactly the same in every way use the same speakers all around. edit: Upon reading Keith's explanation, I am adjusting my thoughts about the electronics offering a noticeable difference. I will accept his thinking about it that it won't make an audible difference to us humans. But I stand by my thoughts about using all the same speakers as being the best possible setup and it being very noticeable because I've experienced it. |
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Sayer
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Post by Sayer on Oct 9, 2022 19:16:00 GMT -5
Okay, thank you for the info. May not be worth the upgrade after all. I would say that if the system is like mine, with small surrounds and smaller Heights, then it would be difficult at best to hear a difference. But it’s a big difference when the center and surrounds are the same as the fronts! Even in a 5.1 system. So when the supporting electronics are all as good on every channel it’ll be very noticeable. Prior to me experiencing great speakers on all channels I never thought it would be possible to tell the difference. In a dedicated theater I would go for all bed channels to be exactly the same in every way. I recently purchased the T3+ towers for front L-R, and the C3+ center. I've moved the T2+ to the rear channels. So, they are quite substantial. I have four B1+ for the height speakers. Maybe it would be worth the processor upgrade since the T2+ are quite good sounding with a full range. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 10, 2022 0:35:27 GMT -5
What I would like to see is a Downgrade option with my RMC-1L...let me Downgrade to the XMC-X (whatever it will be called) for no (or very low) cost. I'm in the opposite situation. I have the XMC-2, but the DACs found on the RMC-1L are only used on the front three channels of the XMC-2, the DACs for the other channels are not as good. Now that I finally have Atmos set up and running (5.2.4 - I am so excited to be able to say this) I would like to have the better DACs all the way around. I recently purchased the T3+ and C3+ speakers and moved the T2+ to the rear channels. It sounds great, but could it be better with better DACS on the other channels? Seems like you two might be able to help each other out, better keep in touch come upgrade time. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Oct 10, 2022 9:46:06 GMT -5
Actually, to be completely accurate, the same DAC chips are used for all of the channels on all of them. However, they are high-performance stereo balanced DACs, but they also have a super-high-quality "mono mode". In that mode both outputs on both stereo channels of each chip are cross connected into a single balanced output channel... and the result is THD and noise that are a tiny bit lower. In the RMC-1 and RMC-1L the DACs for all of the channels are used in "mono mode"... While, in the XMC-2, it's only the front three channels... What I would like to see is a Downgrade option with my RMC-1L...let me Downgrade to the XMC-X (whatever it will be called) for no (or very low) cost. I'm in the opposite situation. I have the XMC-2, but the DACs found on the RMC-1L are only used on the front three channels of the XMC-2, the DACs for the other channels are not as good. Now that I finally have Atmos set up and running (5.2.4 - I am so excited to be able to say this) I would like to have the better DACs all the way around. I recently purchased the T3+ and C3+ speakers and moved the T2+ to the rear channels. It sounds great, but could it be better with better DACS on the other channels? Seems like you two might be able to help each other out, better keep in touch come upgrade time. |
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Sayer
Sensei
Chasing better sound.
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Post by Sayer on Oct 10, 2022 10:09:44 GMT -5
Actually, to be completely accurate, the same DAC chips are used for all of the channels on all of them. However, they are high-performance stereo balanced DACs, but they also have a super-high-quality "mono mode". In that mode both outputs on both stereo channels of each chip are cross connected into a single balanced output channel... and the result is THD and noise that are a tiny bit lower. In the RMC-1 and RMC-1L the DACs for all of the channels are used in "mono mode"... While, in the XMC-2, it's only the front three channels... So, is it even possible to hear a difference when using Airmotive speakers? The other differences that I know of (extra display and better RCA jacks) between the XMC and RMC are not as important to me. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Oct 10, 2022 12:05:54 GMT -5
To be candid I doubt the difference would be audible to we mere humans. (We're talking THD "out in the double zeros" and S/N in the "over 120's".) And especially since we're talking about surrounds. However it is there and can be measured.  Actually, to be completely accurate, the same DAC chips are used for all of the channels on all of them. However, they are high-performance stereo balanced DACs, but they also have a super-high-quality "mono mode". In that mode both outputs on both stereo channels of each chip are cross connected into a single balanced output channel... and the result is THD and noise that are a tiny bit lower. In the RMC-1 and RMC-1L the DACs for all of the channels are used in "mono mode"... While, in the XMC-2, it's only the front three channels... So, is it even possible to hear a difference when using Airmotive speakers? The other differences that I know of (extra display and better RCA jacks) between the XMC and RMC are not as important to me. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Oct 10, 2022 12:13:15 GMT -5
First of all, people do tend to have better speakers in the front, and that's where the most important content is sent... And most people who bother to listen to high quality two-channel content in stereo do so on the front channels... And some people just like better specs. Okay, thank you for the info. May not be worth the upgrade after all. Saying that even a dog would not be able to tell a difference then begs the question why do the front 3 in mono mode if there is no benefit? Why waste money on additional Dacs? I do think it’s not something to worry about but there should be a slight difference. And the fact that we are talking about surrounds it does matter less. |
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Post by MukAudio on Oct 10, 2022 15:59:54 GMT -5
To be candid I doubt the difference would be audible to we mere humans. (We're talking THD "out in the double zeros" and S/N in the "over 120's".) And especially since we're talking about surrounds. However it is there and can be measured. Thank you for stating what I was suspecting. I think the XMC-2 would be more than enough for me but I do like the look of that RMC-1L front panel. Mark |
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Post by Ninjician on Oct 10, 2022 16:39:48 GMT -5
Without having a guarantee on the HDMI upgrade for my XMC-2, I'm pretty much done with Emotiva.
Promise was that the XMC1 was modular, then that promise changed to "hardware limitations don't allow us to be modular"
Now we have the XMC2. No firmware, and this price drop immediately tells me that they are going to do a trade-in program for the XMC3 without imparting any promised features for the XMC2.
Same ol' cycle. If I didn't receive such a substantial discount when upgrading from my broken XMC1 to the XMC2, I would be walking a different path. Very disappointed, and I've been a customer since the XPA5 and UMC released.
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