RMC-1+ / XMC-2+ The G4 Processors & Trade In — New FAQ P1

[AudioHTIT]

- October 27, 2024
This thread continues to be the place for ‘preliminary discussion’ of the Emotiva Gen 4 Processors (G4P), which are officially known as the + or Plus series. As of Emofest in October 2024, new details of the + processors and the trade in plan were made available, because of this I have moved all the original material (which started in October 2022) to the second post. I will now document in this 1st Post what we know about the new processors, the plan, and other technical details.

The new + models will be:

RMC-1+	$4999
XMC-2+	$3999

There will not be an official RMC-1L+
* Current RMC-1L owners who want an upgraded “RMC-1L+” should contact Emotiva. 

Current G3 processors have the following value, if they are traded in on either of the new models.

RMC-1	$3500
RMC-1L	$3000
XMC-2	$2000

Known Technical Details and Specifications (both models)!
* 16 Fully Balanced Channels, configurable as 15.1 Atmos
* 8K (on all 8 inputs and 2 outputs) HDMI 2.1b with ARC/eARC
* Panasonic/Nuvoton HDMI Processing, Fast switching HDMI, 4K 120 hz / 8K 60 Hz
* Enhanced Dolby Atmos audio decoding
* DTS:X Pro audio decoding
* IMAX Enhanced Audio and Video
* Built in Wifi and hard wired gigabit ethernet
* Fully embedded web setup and control system
* New TI Burr Brown PCM1795 DAC board and upgraded audio
* 200 watt autoswitching power supply
* Music streaming capable (at this time this feature appears to be ‘off the table’)

Known & Expected RMC-1+ Expansion Modules
* Stereo Phono Preamp for MM & MC Cartridges (available now, G3/4P compatible)
* Dual Stereo XLR Balanced Input Module (available now G3/4P compatible)
* Four Channel Atmos Expansion Module
* Four Subwoofer Expansion Module

** The RMC-1+ will include a Phono Preamp, and Balanced XLR Input Expansion Boards (free of charge)

The G4P Atmos / DLBC out of the box configurations
9.1.6, 9.1.4, 9.1.2, 9.2.4, 9.2.2, 9.3.4, 9.3.2
7.1.6, 7.1.4, 7.1.2, 7.2.4, 7.2.2, 7.3.4, 7.3.2
5.1.4, 5.1.2, 5.2.4, 5.2.2, 5.3.4, 5.3.2
3.1.4, 3.1.2, 3.2.4, 3.2.2, 3.3.4, 3.3.2

** These configurations allow standard Atmos, and individual DLBC subwoofer calibration.

FAQ
(these answers are not ’official’, but taken from notes and discussions surrounding Emofest)

Q) When will the new processors be available?
Emotiva expects to have enough parts to build beta units very soon, and begin production units before the end of 2024, they expect to begin customer sales and shipments in Q1/2025.

Q) How will the trade in process work?
You will purchase a new + model and pay for it in full. Emotiva will ship you a new unit with a 5 year warranty. If you have a Trade In they will also send you a shipping label to use when returning your unit to Emotiva. When it is determined that your unit meets the trade in requirements, an appropriate credit will be issued.
* The specific trade in requirements have not been announced, eg. what condition your unit must be in, and what accessories need to be returned (you will need the box, but they usually have them for sale)

Q) Can I trade up or down, to a different model than I currently own?
Yes! Your trade in value remains the same, as does the price of whichever model you choose, you just pay the difference.

Q) Will the G4P support Dirac Live and DLBC, and what will they cost?
Emotiva has stated they intend to support both products with the Plus series, however there were no details given about when that might happen, though the was a comment about Dirac certification of the Subwoofer expansion modules. Dirac Live will be included in the cost of the processor, Dirac Live Bass Control (DLBC) will cost $299 for any number of subwoofers.
* There was also a comment that Dirac ART might also be supported, but it would require an additional interface

Q) Is the external Raspberry Pi still required to run Dirac?
No, the RPi4 is now built in to the plus series chassis, so the architecture seems similar, but no external boxes required. The RPi4 will also facilitate other functions like the Web interface

Q) Will the Channel and Subwoofer Expansion Boards for the RMC-1+ be available when the units ship?
No details on shipping dates for the expansion modules was given, but they are still planned for release

Q) Does it matter when I bought my G3P trade in, or how much I paid for it?
No, all units of a particular model are being given the same trade in value
* Scratches, damage, or missing accessories may decrease that value

Q) How much power does the G4P consume at idle?
No exact measurements have been released, though comments at Emofest indicated it was less than expected, and that it peaked around 100W, but might generally be around 80W (so about double the current models)

Q) What happened to the Streaming option for the G4P?
The following statement was made by Emotiva on 11/1/2024
“The SECOND option will be a streamer expansion module for the RMC-1+.
This will probably be a bit further out... but is definitely on the way as well.
It will probably offer much the same feature options as the DRS-1... but the hardware will live in one of the RMC-1+ expansion slots.
(And, since the XMC-2+ doesn't have any expansion slots, this will only be an option for the RMC-1+.)

And, finally, we are looking into the possibility of running the streaming capability on the processor's internal engine.
If this turns out to be practical then it may eventually become an option for both the XMC-2+ and / or the RMC-1+.
At this point this is quite literally no more and no less than something that we are considering.
We are still actively considering it, and hoping that it may turn out to be possible, but we really don't know if it's going to turn out to be practical or not...”

Q) Will Bruce finally get the Speaker Preset Trigger he’s been wanting for years?
No, Bruce was last seen moping his way down the street, headed for Franklin! 😢

Links
The Future of Emotiva Processors
Emofest 2024 Notes Thread
The Atmos / DTS:X Discussion Thread

[AudioHTIT]

This 2nd Post, is now the old 1st and 2nd Post combined, it is just historical at this point, but is kept for information and discussion.

ANNOUNCEMENT: After Emofest 2024, much has changed, I’ll continue to put updates in Red

Posted on the Emotiva site today — I’m sure there will be much discussion, but let’s do it here and leave the Owners thread for those looking for help and want to discuss the current G3Ps. There's an FAQ in the 2nd Post.

Quoted from the linked page.

We’ll cut to the chase -

Do we have plans to upgrade our processors? Answer: Yes!
We are deep into the development of the next generation of our world class processor line. The core of which is based on a lightning fast, Linux based OS with 10X the power and speed of the previous generations. This also brings gigabit ethernet and integrated WiFi as well as a modern, web based GUI setup and control system that will run on any phone, tablet or computer. Add to that a whole new HDMI system that has 8K, 2.1 on all inputs and outputs, the latest and greatest Dolby Atmos, all new DTS-X Pro and IMAX audio and video. We have also upgraded the already spectacular audio sub-system, and to top it all off, a whole new higher output power supply.

Can the current generation be upgraded? Answer: Yes!
In keeping with our commitment to give you a processor that won't be obsolete next year, there is an upgrade path to take the current generation and give it all the wonderful benefits. Specific details to follow.
Therefore, we are dropping the price of the XMC-2, RMC-1L, and RMC-1 processors for you to purchase and enjoy today! Enjoy your current system now, and know that it can be upgraded in the future.

Will there be new processors? (more details here)

Edit 1: 3/8/2024 : Thread renamed for clarity
from: XMC … RMC … G3P … G4P? Processors — The Next Generation
to RMC-1+ RMC-1L+ XMC-2+ — The G4 Processors & Upgrade
Edit 2: 6/3/2024 renamed again as requested to RMC-1+ RMC-1L+ XMC-2+ / The G4 Processors & Upgrade / FAQ P1
Edit 2: 10/6/2024 renamed again due to EmoFest Announcements RMC-1+ / XMC-2+ The G4 Processors & Trade In / FAQ P1Edit: Again much has changed since Emofest 2024, I’ll try to keep up

This post is for pricing and FAQ for the G4P (aka +) models and upgrades. I’ll keep it updated as new info is released, or questions asked.

Edit: At the end of the FAQ are some unanswered questions, if you have other questions you can post them in the thread and I’ll add them. Emotiva Staff are encouraged to look at these questions and answer any you are informed about.

PRICING
I have tentative pricing for the levels of this based on current costs in the world for parts, shipping, etc.
The NEW prices for the processor fully put together purchasing it as a new unit:

RMC-1+ $5,699 Edit: As of the CEDIA 2024 Video $4999
RMC-1L+ $4,999 Edit: No longer planned for release
XMC-2+ $3,999

If you are an original purchaser who got the unit at the original full price, this also includes UFL members and Factory Renewed purchasers who purchased an FR unit when it was at original full price on or before October 2nd 2022 = $699

Everyone else: The RMC-1, RMC-1L, and XMC-2 upgrade cost will be $1,499.

Edit: There is now a ‘Trade In Value’ for ANY G3P: XMC-2 $2,000 / RMC-1L: $3,000 / RMC-1 $3500

FAQ
Q) Why are the upgrade costs different?

The RMC-1 and RMC-1L, along with all the other upgrades, will get a new higher performance Fully Differential Burr Brown analog output board.
The XMC-2, along with all the other upgrades, will get the current RMC Fully Differential AKM analog output board.

Q) How will upgrades work for existing Emotiva Processors?

Multiple boards have to be changed and a whole new OS has to be installed, and the entire system needs to run through our QA to ensure it meets our rigorous standards. Your processor will be treated as a trade-in. You will order a new unit which will be shipped to you, a return label will be included to send your existing unit back for trade in credit. That way you won’t be without a processor in your system!

Q) What kind of warranty comes with the upgraded units?

IF you don't have any warranty left on your unit you are sending in, you will get a 1 year warranty.
IF you have anything over a year warranty left on the unit you are sending it, it will get rolled over to the brand new unit.
You will get a 5-year warranty if you purchase a full price PLUS processor.

Edit: All new G4P ‘+’ models will come with a full 5 year warranty

Q) When will the new “+” processors and upgrades be available?

Emotiva is targeting Summer of 2023

Edit 1: Late Summer 2023, Emotiva is now stating “… near the end of 2023”
Edit 2: Late Fall 2023, an unofficial comment in the lounge now places release near the end of Q2/2024
Edit 3: In the 3/23/2024 Podcast now confirms that June 2024 is the current target date
Edit 4: In the 5/24/2024 Podcast, Dan indicated they’re waiting for a chip, and targeting the July 2024 timeframe
Edit 5: In the 7/25/2024 Podcast, Dan indicated they’re still waiting for parts. He did not give a new date, but rather said ‘soon’
Edit 6: In the 10/6/2024 EmoFest, Dan indicated they’re still waiting for parts, Q1 2025 is targeted for general shipments

Q) Can I get a partial upgrade (say just the HDMI 2.1 board)?

No, the upgrade must be completed as a system …

Q) What if I purchased my G3P with UFL or 40% card?

If your purchase and discount was against a full retail price unit, you will pay $699

Q) What about those of us that upgraded from the XMC-1 to the XMC2?

You would pay $1,499 to upgrade since you got your XMC-2 at a discounted price.

Q) What of customers who purchased through a non-US based reseller back in the day when that was available?

You would need to contact our sales department [e-mail] to work this detail out since we would need a sales receipt and there will be most likely additional shipping fees etc.

Q) Would the $699.00 price include shipping both ways?

With the XMC-1 upgrade, users paid return shipping to Emotiva, they paid shipping back, it has not been clarified for this upgrade.

Q) What if you took advantage of the XMC-2 to RMC-1L upgrade in the past.

If you traded up from the XMC-2 to the RMC-1, your cost would be $699 assuming you purchased the XMC-2 at full cost.

Q) Can I get my actual unit upgraded instead of getting a new one?

Yes, however it may take several weeks as ‘standard’ upgrades will be handled first Edit: No
Q) What are the new features of the G4P?

* 8K (on all inputs and outputs) HDMI 2.1 with ARC/eARC
* Enhanced Dolby Atmos audio decoding
* DTS:X Pro audio decoding
* IMAX Enhanced Audio and Video
* Built in Wifi and hard wired gigabit ethernet
* Fully embedded web setup and control system
* New TI DAC board and upgraded audio (vs AKM)
* 200 watt autoswitching power supply
* Music streaming capable <—- Unsure, no comment at Emofest

Questions and suggestions for possible inclusion in the upcoming podcast regarding these new models. I will try to add to this list as more questions come up. (Lonnie , Dan Laufman , KeithL , Hair Nick )

* Can I trade in a XMC-2 for an RMC-1 or RMC-1L+? If so what will the cost be?
* If I could have one new feature, it would be POI (Power On Input) selection. This makes macros work and greatly improves the reliability of the startup sequence.
* It would nice to have the app work with wearables as well.
* It would be *very* nice to have an option on mute: 10dB, 20dB, full. Even 20dB / full would be nice (Anthem has this feature)
* The power on from LPS by input selection that RichB has mentioned. +1 from me.
* The ability to use one hdmi connection for two or more separate inputs. For example connecting a universal disc player (like an Oppo) to hdmi#1. Setting input#1 to play movies from the Oppo with the appropriate speaker/filter/trigger settings. Setting up input#2 from hdmi#1 for playing 2-channel music with different a setup for speaker filters, amp triggers, etc. And input#3 for multi-channel music with its unique speaker/filter/trigger setup.
* Will new gen allow cross-up-mixing of audio codecs?
* Will EU / Europe crowd upgrades be done without the need to send our boxes to base in US (even if it means delayed availability vs US market)?
* Will the pops and other audio artifacts be addressed with the new GEN - and I guess this is a two prong question as the answer might be different for XMC-2+, which uses AKM boards and RMC+ which uses new boards in case it matters?
* How about a trigger option based on speaker preset?
* Expected timeline for delivery?  Which model first?  When is the estimated date to start shipping our processor in to Emotiva?
* What is the measured power consumption in the following situations (assuming they still exist): Low Power Standby (LPS), Video Remains On (VRO), Full Power on with 4K HDMI signal.
* What is the average startup time from LPS to fully on with HDMI signal.
* Which of the following will be available when the G4P models begin shipping: Dirac Live, Dirac Live Bass Control (single and multiple), Dirac ART. Which will ACTUALLY be available at a later date? What is the estimated date for anything that doesn’t ship initially.

[jjkessler]

Didn’t see any mention of DIRAC, wonder what the plan is

[MukAudio]

Oct 5, 2022 19:46:59 GMT -5 AudioHTIT said:

I wonder why we need a 200 Watt power supply, the current G3Ps draw about 37 Watts, will the new features use that much more juice?

I was surprised by the increased power draw as well. Maybe the addition of the wifi receiver?

Mark

[AudioHTIT]

Oct 5, 2022 20:06:01 GMT -5 jjkessler said:

Didn’t see any mention of DIRAC, wonder what the plan is

I just came to post the same thing, I’d looked to see if DLBC was mentioned and nothing … that’s a major question going forward.

[AudioHTIT]

Oct 5, 2022 20:06:03 GMT -5 MukAudio said:

Oct 5, 2022 19:46:59 GMT -5 AudioHTIT said:

I wonder why we need a 200 Watt power supply, the current G3Ps draw about 37 Watts, will the new features use that much more juice?

I was surprised by the increased power draw as well. Maybe the addition of the wifi receiver?

Mark

Yes, there are several new features, but I hope the power consumption doesn’t double. That said, the specs for the new Marantz AV10 show it drawing 90 Watts, that’s more than any of the (current) Emotiva Power Amps idle at!

[carbonsummit]

“The Only Constant in Life Is Change.”- Heraclitus

Enjoy what you have and wait for the new stuff to come. Lets be honest, they have not really even completed the vision for what I understood this generation of pre/pros was to do. I'm not too sure I'd jump on a new line, and they say we can update this line so I guess I'm not to worried/interested in this change at this point.

[jjkessler]

Wondering if the issues we experience is partially what’s driving them to a new generation of processor. Maybe it’s the only way to fix the issue by having far more processing power

[ttocs]

My gut says the lower pricing allows the upgrade service to meet the old pricing.

Maybe something like:
New low price for RMC-1= $3749
Upgrade Service = $1250

New low price for XMC-2= $2399
Upgrade Service = $600

The old XMC-1 to XMC-2 trade in was $650/$1000 based on without/with the V3 board, and this was for them to ship a new black box with more accessories.

The new Upgrade Service is just some boards and testing. Like jjkessler said, a subscription for upgrading.

My gut says a lot of things, but it also says that they are stuck with something and need a path forward. The new hardware must have chips which are more favorable to coding, and maybe more like other manufacturers in being more "compatible" with associates like Dirac.

So, would I pay $600 for the upgrades as presented today for my XMC-2? Yes.
Would I pay $1000? Maybe.
Would I send them my Pioneer Elite, which happens to be dead, and get an RMC-1 @ $2999 now and then wait till next year and pay another $1250? No. Not with this short notice. I'd consider it in January, and would probably do it.
Would I pay the $3749 in January. Dunno.

edit: some math was wrong.

[DellaDog]

OK, I’ll be the first to say what everyone is thinking - Which will come first, the new generation or the V3 firmware?

[ttocs]

Oct 5, 2022 21:12:03 GMT -5 DellaDog said:

OK, I’ll be the first to say what everyone is thinking - Which will come first, the new generation or the V3 firmware?

I think the firmware will be released first. Probably a bandaid fix, then later a better fix.

I think they're pretty close with the firmware, but something must be buggy enough to be a concern, and my guess is that they're trying to get the pops to go away because that's what is mentioned the most in complaints.

[5channels]

"...web based GUI setup and control system..." after all that waffling from Emo about performance vs. a "pretty" GUI. It makes me cry balderdash!!!

I challenge EMO, either firmware v3 comes out first or upgrade to the next Gen is free

[405x5]

I’m burned out….Time to roll out a new ball of wax

[AudioHTIT]

Oct 5, 2022 22:12:27 GMT -5 405x5 said:

I’m burned out….Time to roll out a new ball of wax
View Attachment

I have one! Remember going over to Tom’s when he cut it 😮

[repeetavx]

2.1 on all inputs and outputs sounds great to me.

Rather glad that I skipped the 3rd gen journey. My XMC-1 still sounds fabulous!!!

Hoping and rooting for Emotiva to nail the 4th gen. and be the envy of the industry.

[okjazz]

Any idea if Bluetooth input and output will be available with the G4 processors?

[Sayer]

Oct 5, 2022 21:24:04 GMT -5 ttocs said:

I think the firmware will be released first. Probably a bandaid fix, then later a better fix.

I wonder if the firmware update for the current processors will ever be released. To me, it seems they are raising the white flag and giving up on it. Why would you announce the next generation, when you know how long and frustrated customers have been waiting for the fixes to the current generation.

[Sayer]

On the provided link, where it compares the next gen to the current gen. Why does it describe the current gen as "4K HDMI 2.0 with ARC/ eARC"? Do any of the current processors support eARC?

This is something I am interested in since I produce music and want a way to play back my Atmos mixes in a lossless way over my home theater system.

[autocrat]

Oct 6, 2022 0:11:01 GMT -5 Sayer said:

On the provided link, where it compares the next gen to the current gen. Why does it describe the current gen as "4K HDMI 2.0 with ARC/ eARC"? Do any of the current processors support eARC?

This is something I am interested in since I produce music and want a way to play back my Atmos mixes in a lossless way over my home theater system.

If you have a recent build the HDMI board is capable of eARC.

[cwt]

Oct 5, 2022 23:55:51 GMT -5 Sayer said:

Oct 5, 2022 21:24:04 GMT -5 ttocs said:

I think the firmware will be released first. Probably a bandaid fix, then later a better fix.

I wonder if the firmware update for the current processors will ever be released. To me, it seems they are raising the white flag and giving up on it. Why would you announce the next generation, when you know how long and frustrated customers have been waiting for the fixes to the current generation.

Leaves an open question as to whether certain expectations will be filled with the g4p's ie are resources being put into the new line at the expense of an multichannel processing channel board that is de rigeur for many rmc owners ? Similarly will the g4ps receive a dts pro firmware upgrade or is this exclusively for those who upgrade their processor ..I suspect certain features will be used as an incentive to upgrade which makes sense as a new system could simplify things like the dirac integration ..

DTS:X audio decoding DTS:X Pro audio decoding