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Post by thezone on Oct 10, 2022 17:52:09 GMT -5
Without having a guarantee on the HDMI upgrade for my XMC-2, I'm pretty much done with Emotiva. Promise was that the XMC1 was modular, then that promise changed to "hardware limitations don't allow us to be modular" Now we have the XMC2. No firmware, and this price drop immediately tells me that they are going to do a trade-in program for the XMC3 without imparting any promised features for the XMC2. Same ol' cycle. If I didn't receive such a substantial discount when upgrading from my broken XMC1 to the XMC2, I would be walking a different path. Very disappointed, and I've been a customer since the XPA5 and UMC released. But that's juts it. If I hadn't been offered a good deal to upgrade from XMC-1 to XMC-2 I'd probably still have the XMC-1. Perhaps it's easier to offer an upgrade path rather than fix the old issues. |
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Post by markc on Oct 10, 2022 18:34:54 GMT -5
It will be interesting to compare the original g3 sound signature with the new g4's ' Another incentive to upgrade will be the sound signature  Or disincentive! There is nothing to say that the G4P are going to have a nicer sounding sonic signature or be more pleasing to any given individual that what they have now. |
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Post by sebna on Oct 10, 2022 18:58:07 GMT -5
It will be interesting to compare the original g3 sound signature with the new g4's ' Another incentive to upgrade will be the sound signature Or disincentive! There is nothing to say that the G4P are going to have a nicer sounding sonic signature or be more pleasing to any given individual that what they have now. That is the problem, is not it? Can you imagine spending more on a extremely buggy XMC-2 to get more and new bugs with XMC-3 and worse SQ than XMC-2? Hmm... |
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Post by markc on Oct 10, 2022 19:14:34 GMT -5
2.1 on all inputs and outputs sounds great to me. Hoping and rooting for Emotiva to nail the 4th gen. and be the envy of the industry. HDMI 2.1 may not sound so great on a new G4P processor that arrives in or after 2026 at which point the Industry will have made quantum leaps and not be in envy. (I refer you back to the intervals between the XMC-1 announcement and release dates and then the RMC-1 announcement to release dates (Let's even be generous and think in terms of the RMC-1's initial release even though, in 2022, it still isn't in the promised format of a ) working and/or b) having more than 16 channels) |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 10, 2022 21:34:43 GMT -5
Or disincentive! There is nothing to say that the G4P are going to have a nicer sounding sonic signature or be more pleasing to any given individual that what they have now. That is the problem, is not it? Can you imagine spending more on a extremely buggy XMC-2 to get more and new bugs with XMC-3 and worse SQ than XMC-2? Hmm... Personally I don’t find the RMC-1 ‘extremely buggy’, have you even hooked yours up yet or do you just believe what you read? |
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Post by cwt on Oct 10, 2022 21:35:21 GMT -5
It will be interesting to compare the original g3 sound signature with the new g4's ' Another incentive to upgrade will be the sound signature Or disincentive! There is nothing to say that the G4P are going to have a nicer sounding sonic signature or be more pleasing to any given individual that what they have now. Obviously Emo will say that the new models will be an improvement after extensive listening tests - I appreciate your stance on bass management btw . A consequence of the supply chain problems and things like the AKM fire which you will note the gen3's do use AKM dacs . Those who have a predilection for Burr brown may get their wishes met  |
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Post by leonski on Oct 10, 2022 21:57:51 GMT -5
Or disincentive! There is nothing to say that the G4P are going to have a nicer sounding sonic signature or be more pleasing to any given individual that what they have now. Obviously Emo will say that the new models will be an improvement after extensive listening tests - I appreciate your stance on bass management btw . A consequence of the supply chain problems and things like the AKM fire which you will note the gen3's do use AKM dacs . Those who have a predilection for Burr brown may get their wishes met I worked in Wafer Fabrication for the vast majority of my career. Saw lots of sh** go down. Worst was a chemical 'event' involving Hydrofluoric Acid.....which might be the Worst. Makes Sulferic look like cake icing. I was also employed at a company whose FAB burned down. As a result of the maintnance / mop guys leaving a pile of Acetone Soaked rags in a corner. When THAT Lit Off? Took the entire building with it. As soon a the fire gus left? I slipped on a pair of knee-high rubber boots and waded in to check on MY equipment. Which I found mostly intact and certainly NOT responsible for the fire. My gear? 2kw Immersion Heatrs in GLYCOL which also managed to soak up acid spillage which polluted the bath and etched the (quartz) heater elements. that could EASILY have been a problem but was not......I had evolved a maintenance cycle which stayed AHEAD of that problem and kept an eye on the PH of the bath...... The GENERAL rule in semiconductor is NOT to have a single source. If your company makes a DAC.....than you contract someone else to make the same part. So no single point of failure destroys your business. Some companies specialize in 'second source'...... |
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Post by cwt on Oct 10, 2022 21:58:54 GMT -5
I recently purchased the T3+ towers for front L-R, and the C3+ center. I've moved the T2+ to the rear channels. So, they are quite substantial. I have four B1+ for the height speakers. Maybe it would be worth the processor upgrade since the T2+ are quite good sounding with a full range. The speaker is the deciding factor here I would suggest . Speakers have a magnitude more effect than a pre amp processor on your sound quality . This is because its a mechanical device with plenty of factors to colour the sound . A preamp processor only has to process preamp level signals . The power amp is more important as it has to control the speaker and amplify what is a small level signal .. Thats the way I look at it at least ;my 2.0C What can happen in a time delayed signal bouncing around in a cabinet ; www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/signal-to-noise-ratio-for-loudspeakers.12271/post-381383 |
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Post by leonski on Oct 10, 2022 22:27:27 GMT -5
The OPPOSITE viewpoint is 'Source First'.....
One to which I tend to agree.....
Start good? End good......
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Post by cwt on Oct 10, 2022 22:56:44 GMT -5
The OPPOSITE viewpoint is 'Source First'..... One to which I tend to agree..... Start good? End good...... Aah ; the still relevant garbage in garbage out spiel that Linn Sondek turntables have used ad infinitum ; great marketing and true. I just think that the room speaker interaction is whats important if all other things are good quality Dont get me started on why digital cds/files are superior to records wow and flutter skipping mis tracking stylus wear etc  its off topic  |
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Post by jasonf on Oct 10, 2022 23:37:49 GMT -5
It will be interesting to compare the original g3 sound signature with the new g4's ' Another incentive to upgrade will be the sound signature Or disincentive! There is nothing to say that the G4P are going to have a nicer sounding sonic signature or be more pleasing to any given individual that what they have now. My guess is just that the new audio board is going to switch to ESS or TI DACs since AKM burnt to the ground. As a result, I'm sure it'll sound a bit different, but not better/worse. Personally I prefer most ESS DAC implementations to AKM, but not everyone seems to agree. |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 10, 2022 23:40:46 GMT -5
Without having a guarantee on the HDMI upgrade for my XMC-2, I'm pretty much done with Emotiva. Promise was that the XMC1 was modular, then that promise changed to "hardware limitations don't allow us to be modular" Now we have the XMC2. No firmware, and this price drop immediately tells me that they are going to do a trade-in program for the XMC3 without imparting any promised features for the XMC2. Same ol' cycle. If I didn't receive such a substantial discount when upgrading from my broken XMC1 to the XMC2, I would be walking a different path. Very disappointed, and I've been a customer since the XPA5 and UMC released. But that's juts it. If I hadn't been offered a good deal to upgrade from XMC-1 to XMC-2 I'd probably still have the XMC-1. Perhaps it's easier to offer an upgrade path rather than fix the old issues. Problem is, more money out of your pocket! |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Oct 11, 2022 11:00:55 GMT -5
It's also worth mentioning... yet again... that the overall sound of a system relies on a LOT more than the specific DAC chips you use. In fact, once you get past a certain level, and into "premium DAC chips", other factors matter a lot more than which chip you happen to use. Both ESS and AKM DAC chips (and most others) can be made to sound very different depending on the internal filters you choose and the circuitry you put around them. A lot of ESS DAC implementations sound noticeably "bright and grainy" - to the point where they have a reputation for it - but they can sound quite neutral when implemented properly. And, of course, some vendors deliberately aim for a "house sound", while others may just plain not be very good at designing DACs. (As I'm sure you know by now, here at Emotiva we prefer our DACs to be neutral, and we are quite successful at achieving that goal.) Or disincentive! There is nothing to say that the G4P are going to have a nicer sounding sonic signature or be more pleasing to any given individual that what they have now. My guess is just that the new audio board is going to switch to ESS or TI DACs since AKM burnt to the ground. As a result, I'm sure it'll sound a bit different, but not better/worse. Personally I prefer most ESS DAC implementations to AKM, but not everyone seems to agree. |
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Oct 11, 2022 11:04:48 GMT -5
Indeed... The room and speakers are the two biggest factors in how your system will sound. And the sound of the actual content you play is almost certainly the next most important factor. Vinyl manages to sound quite nice... considering all of the limitations it is stuck with. (But it does take a lot of effort to even reach the maximum it is capable of delivering.) The OPPOSITE viewpoint is 'Source First'..... One to which I tend to agree..... Start good? End good...... Aah ; the still relevant garbage in garbage out spiel that Linn Sondek turntables have used ad infinitum ; great marketing and true. I just think that the room speaker interaction is whats important if all other things are good quality Dont get me started on why digital cds/files are superior to records wow and flutter skipping mis tracking stylus wear etc its off topic |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 11, 2022 13:13:13 GMT -5
It's also worth mentioning... yet again... that the overall sound of a system relies on a LOT more than the specific DAC chips you use. In fact, once you get past a certain level, and into "premium DAC chips", other factors matter a lot more than which chip you happen to use. Both ESS and AKM DAC chips (and most others) can be made to sound very different depending on the internal filters you choose and the circuitry you put around them. A lot of ESS DAC implementations sound noticeably "bright and grainy" - to the point where they have a reputation for it - but they can sound quite neutral when implemented properly. And, of course, some vendors deliberately aim for a "house sound", while others may just plain not be very good at designing DACs. (As I'm sure you know by now, here at Emotiva we prefer our DACs to be neutral, and we are quite successful at achieving that goal.) My guess is just that the new audio board is going to switch to ESS or TI DACs since AKM burnt to the ground. As a result, I'm sure it'll sound a bit different, but not better/worse. Personally I prefer most ESS DAC implementations to AKM, but not everyone seems to agree. Perhaps filter choices would be a good feature on the G4Processors. I have this feature on my oppo 205 player. They are different in sound. The sound from the RMC-1L is fine. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 11, 2022 14:14:46 GMT -5
So if we understood the podcast, ‘new units’ will have a new ‘Audio Board’ whereas ‘upgraded units’ will retain their current audio board. Though some details may not be known for the new board, what is the main function of the audio board? Is it just the 16 analog outputs? I’d assume it doesn’t include the DACs, or if it does new and old boards will have different ones? Just what is in the audio board, and how likely are there to be audible differences. Edit: Being subjective, the ‘audible differences’ part isn’t really important, just trying to understand the functions. It's also worth mentioning... yet again... that the overall sound of a system relies on a LOT more than the specific DAC chips you use. In fact, once you get past a certain level, and into "premium DAC chips", other factors matter a lot more than which chip you happen to use. Both ESS and AKM DAC chips (and most others) can be made to sound very different depending on the internal filters you choose and the circuitry you put around them. A lot of ESS DAC implementations sound noticeably "bright and grainy" - to the point where they have a reputation for it - but they can sound quite neutral when implemented properly. And, of course, some vendors deliberately aim for a "house sound", while others may just plain not be very good at designing DACs. (As I'm sure you know by now, here at Emotiva we prefer our DACs to be neutral, and we are quite successful at achieving that goal.) My guess is just that the new audio board is going to switch to ESS or TI DACs since AKM burnt to the ground. As a result, I'm sure it'll sound a bit different, but not better/worse. Personally I prefer most ESS DAC implementations to AKM, but not everyone seems to agree. |
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NicS
Sensei
Will the G4 upgrade help quell my RMC1-L frustrations...?
Posts: 238
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Post by NicS on Oct 11, 2022 17:18:18 GMT -5
OK, I’ll be the first to say what everyone is thinking - Which will come first, the new generation or the V3 firmware? I'd go with "hell freezing over" before v3.0.... |
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NicS
Sensei
Will the G4 upgrade help quell my RMC1-L frustrations...?
Posts: 238
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Post by NicS on Oct 11, 2022 17:27:20 GMT -5
Indeed... The room and speakers are the two biggest factors in how your system will sound. And the sound of the actual content you play is almost certainly the next most important factor. Vinyl manages to sound quite nice... considering all of the limitations it is stuck with. (But it does take a lot of effort to even reach the maximum it is capable of delivering.) Aah ; the still relevant garbage in garbage out spiel that Linn Sondek turntables have used ad infinitum ; great marketing and true. I just think that the room speaker interaction is whats important if all other things are good quality Dont get me started on why digital cds/files are superior to records wow and flutter skipping mis tracking stylus wear etc its off topic Vinyl still has a place, especially when it comes to music made specifically for that format. I just took delivery of the John Coltrane - Blue Train reissue that Kevin Gray remastered for Blue Note. 100% analogue path from the original master tapes. It's an immaculate recording and a fantastic pressing of a spectacular performance, though it has all the limitations you'd expect from vinyl playback, with every effort to minimize them. But it is true to the intent of the original release. The whole Tone Poet series has been incredible in this respect. My next delivery is the new recording by Max Cooper. Like his Emergence release from 2016, Unspoken Words is a multichannel / Atmos feast with some pretty trippy visuals. While is sonically might blow the socks off anything I have on vinyl, it's an entirely different thing. |
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Post by jjkessler on Oct 11, 2022 18:26:07 GMT -5
The more I think about what’s next for me, the more I’m leaning towards keeping my RMC-1L. My projector runs at 18 Gbps so, don’t think I need the HDMI 2.1. My only complaints are slow input switching, slow remote response and occasional popping. That’s all I need to work better as I’m perfectly happy with my sound quality and channel count
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Post by KimbaWLion on Oct 11, 2022 20:57:55 GMT -5
I am just not sure what to do. I am using an old Yamaha CX-A5000 with an XPA-3 11 channel, I am currently running 7.2 at the moment. I have a working Yamaha receiver I can use as a trade in. Plus, the ability to use Affirm to pay sweetens things even more.
I just don't know what to do, I have gone through posts, reviews, and forum like this and Amir's. Since my TV is HDMI 2.1 and so is my HTPC, HDMI 2.1 is important to me!
I am SOOOO confused on what to do! I have never seen such polarization. I only have so much money and I just want things to work.
Emotiva can promise an upgrade path for $XXXX, but I do NOT want to feel totally frustrated with my purchase until an upgrade! I just want it to work when I plug it in. I am thinking of one the RMC units.
At the end of the day, it comes down to comes to value for me. I am SOOOO confused, I have never seen so much like or hate on a unit!!!
Even though it will me more, does it pay to wait for the new unit and then testing and reviews? Does it pay to buy the current RMC unit with some of its issues with the promise of an upgrade path?
A little advice would be appreciated. I know there is a LOT of info in this thread, and I have gone through it. I would just like to read some succinct pros and cons from those own the units.
I am quite aware at the end of the day the choice is mine, but I still want to hear from the folks who currently use them on what they would do if they had to do it ALL OVER again!
Thanks in advance, I do realize this may come across redundant to a few here so please excuse that.
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its off topic 
