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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 27, 2022 10:39:44 GMT -5
One of my audio amigos is a HUGE proponent of near-field listening. He moves his speakers to the center of the room, or even closer to the listener. His listening position is about 25% into the room, and away from the back wall. In order to maintain geometry, the speakers are much closer to each other than they'd otherwise be. His satellites cross over to stereo subwoofers at 100 Hz., and the subs are close against the wall behind them (about eight feet further from the listening position than the speakers). How does it sound?
The speakers are impossible to locate if you close your eyes. Despite being so close to the listener, the only thing you hear is the original imaging of the recording. Layered depth is there in abundance - close to you - a few feet back from you - infinite distance(s) from you. Some of amigo's speakers are time aligned (Dahlquist DQ-10s and Thiel 5is) while others (Fried H) are not. But whether time aligned or not, the depth is unparalleled. Image width is also enhanced. There's LOTS of information from the sides (and sometimes, using Q-Sound encoded material) from behind you.
The experience has encouraged me to modify my setup as well. Since my listening room is a multi-purpose living room, I plan to put rollers rather than feet under my speakers. When I want to listen, I can roll them out into the room. When they're not needed, I'll roll them back to the wall behind them. I'll let you know how this works out.
Boomzilla
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Post by 405x5 on Nov 27, 2022 16:13:17 GMT -5
One of my audio amigos is a HUGE proponent of near-field listening. He moves his speakers to the center of the room, or even closer to the listener. His listening position is about 25% into the room, and away from the back wall. In order to maintain geometry, the speakers are much closer to each other than they'd otherwise be. His satellites cross over to stereo subwoofers at 100 Hz., and the subs are close against the wall behind them (about eight feet further from the listening position than the speakers). How does it sound? The speakers are impossible to locate if you close your eyes. Despite being so close to the listener, the only thing you hear is the original imaging of the recording. Layered depth is there in abundance - close to you - a few feet back from you - infinite distance(s) from you. Some of amigo's speakers are time aligned (Dahlquist DQ-10s and Thiel 5is) while others (Fried H) are not. But whether time aligned or not, the depth is unparalleled. Image width is also enhanced. There's LOTS of information from the sides (and sometimes, using Q-Sound encoded material) from behind you. The experience has encouraged me to modify my setup as well. Since my listening room is a multi-purpose living room, I plan to put rollers rather than feet under my speakers. When I want to listen, I can roll them out into the room. When they're not needed, I'll roll them back to the wall behind them. I'll let you know how this works out. Boomzilla This idea will play back to mixed reviews since there are those loudspeakers that are designed specifically for near field listening applications as opposed to wider dispersion loudspeakers intended for large areas. Still doesn’t hurt to give it a shot I suppose. |
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Post by mauriceminor on Nov 28, 2022 10:24:58 GMT -5
Extensive information available in Room Acoustics at linkwitzlab.com   |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Nov 28, 2022 11:27:01 GMT -5
It's worth pointing out that Linkwitz speakers are dipoles... and specifically BASS dipoles... so their seating and positioning requirements are somewhat unusual. And, yes, they are unusual, even when compared to "normal" dipoles like Magneplanars. (That's a nice way of saying that you shouldn't assume that their suggestions for their speakers necessarily apply to any other speakers.) One of my audio amigos is a HUGE proponent of near-field listening. He moves his speakers to the center of the room, or even closer to the listener. His listening position is about 25% into the room, and away from the back wall. In order to maintain geometry, the speakers are much closer to each other than they'd otherwise be. His satellites cross over to stereo subwoofers at 100 Hz., and the subs are close against the wall behind them (about eight feet further from the listening position than the speakers). How does it sound? The speakers are impossible to locate if you close your eyes. Despite being so close to the listener, the only thing you hear is the original imaging of the recording. Layered depth is there in abundance - close to you - a few feet back from you - infinite distance(s) from you. Some of amigo's speakers are time aligned (Dahlquist DQ-10s and Thiel 5is) while others (Fried H) are not. But whether time aligned or not, the depth is unparalleled. Image width is also enhanced. There's LOTS of information from the sides (and sometimes, using Q-Sound encoded material) from behind you. The experience has encouraged me to modify my setup as well. Since my listening room is a multi-purpose living room, I plan to put rollers rather than feet under my speakers. When I want to listen, I can roll them out into the room. When they're not needed, I'll roll them back to the wall behind them. I'll let you know how this works out. Boomzilla |
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 28, 2022 18:47:23 GMT -5
After contemplating options, it seems easier to move the listening chair out into the room than the speakers. I can get a folding chair to use when listening that can fold & go away when not. It also simplifies the speaker setup since they won't need to be moved. The speakers will need to be a touch closer together than they would if I were listening from farther away, but the effect should be the same.
The speakers, now having slightly more bass reinforcement from the wall behind them, won't require a subwoofer (as they would were they further into the room). Also the listening position, being further from the wall behind, will be less affected by room acoustics. All in all, a win-win. I will need, however, to get a good folding chair.
Boomzilla
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Post by mgbpuff on Nov 29, 2022 9:16:22 GMT -5
 My nearfield 5.1 setup (computer sourced 5 JBL 305P Mk2 speakers + matching powered sub, Topping DMT 8 channel DAC, balanced TRS to XLR cables from DM7 to speakers). Great for DSD Native multichannel downloads. Nearfild implies if you get them close to your ears, then room placement doesn't matter much. |
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Post by 405x5 on Nov 30, 2022 21:56:18 GMT -5
View AttachmentMy nearfield 5.1 setup (computer sourced 5 JBL 305P Mk2 speakers + matching powered sub, Topping DMT 8 channel DAC, balanced TRS to XLR cables from DM7 to speakers). Great for DSD Native multichannel downloads. Nearfild implies if you get them close to your ears, then room placement doesn't matter much. I’m sure that it sounds excellent but I can’t relax in small spaces like that. I would feel like Mom said: “Go to your room”! Gotta be wide open space and big speakers 4 meee…. Perhaps 🤔 I’ve got claustrophobia. |
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Post by mgbpuff on Dec 1, 2022 10:32:48 GMT -5
View AttachmentMy nearfield 5.1 setup (computer sourced 5 JBL 305P Mk2 speakers + matching powered sub, Topping DMT 8 channel DAC, balanced TRS to XLR cables from DM7 to speakers). Great for DSD Native multichannel downloads. Nearfild implies if you get them close to your ears, then room placement doesn't matter much. I’m sure that it sounds excellent but I can’t relax in small spaces like that. I would feel like Mom said: “Go to your room”! Gotta be wide open space and big speakers 4 meee…. Perhaps 🤔 I’ve got claustrophobia. Well, as you probably know from other posts, this is just my computer room set-up. I have several other audio setups including a Maggie 3.6R planar setup, a Revel Ultima Salon 2 setup, a Zu Essence setup, a 300b/Cain & Cain hi efficiency setup. But I do spend a lot of time in front of my computer monitor. |
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Post by 405x5 on Dec 1, 2022 10:52:05 GMT -5
…..for sure
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 1, 2022 11:54:58 GMT -5
IMHO, near-field listening works best in large rooms. Why? You can get “near-field” in front of your computer, and there’s no doubt that you’ll receive the first-arrival sound from the speakers without any significant room echo. But… You’re still closely proximate to a large reflective surface (your computer screen and also your desk) that interfere with sound from the speakers.
If your speakers are placed close to the listener in an open space where the closest reflecting surface is a (carpeted) floor, the impact of the original recording venue is more clearly apparent.
This effect is obvious with even less-than-full-range speakers. Even single-driver computer speakers can astound in a truly non-reflective environment.
Boom
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Post by mgbpuff on Dec 1, 2022 13:29:46 GMT -5
IMHO, near-field listening works best in large rooms. Why? You can get “near-field” in front of your computer, and there’s no doubt that you’ll receive the first-arrival sound from the speakers without any significant room echo. But… You’re still closely proximate to a large reflective surface (your computer screen and also your desk) that interfere with sound from the speakers. If your speakers are placed close to the listener in an open space where the closest reflecting surface is a (carpeted) floor, the impact of the original recording venue is more clearly apparent. This effect is obvious with even less-than-full-range speakers. Even single-driver computer speakers can astound in a truly non-reflective environment. Boom I am arm's length from my speakers and also nearly the same for any reflecting surface, meaning my screen or desk surfaces. Any reflection from them would be humanly indiscernible echos due to the extremely short time differences. Yes, there is always a good. better, or best for everything in audio, but nearfield does away with most of the reflection problems. Your nearfield equilateral distance can perhaps be larger in a bigger room, but near field is near field! |
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 4, 2022 0:23:58 GMT -5
For near-field listening:
My speakers work MUCH better near the wall behind them (like 12" away). Pull them out further, and they lose the crossover frequencies between their (self-powered) woofer and their midrange.
The speakers work better toed into the listener than they do at right angles to the wall behind them.
Sitting so closely to the speakers, the changes over the first 20 minutes as the amps warm up are HUGE.
VERTICAL tilt has a HUGE impact on the sound. If the speakers are angled even the slightest bit below the listener's ears, the speakers sound constipated.
The ribbon tweeters do a fantastic job of high, airy treble; not so much a good job on the lower treble. What instruments get lost? Sand blocks on Anderson's "Sandpaper Symphony" disappear. Then cymbals are struck, the "tizz" is there, but the "brass" is missing. Perhaps a touch of equalization?"
Speaker placement has a HUGE effect on imaging. Center depth isn't too picky about placement, but if you want a soundstage beyond the plane of the speakers, you'll have to work at it.
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Post by marcl on Feb 20, 2023 9:28:44 GMT -5
IMHO, near-field listening works best in large rooms. Why? You can get “near-field” in front of your computer, and there’s no doubt that you’ll receive the first-arrival sound from the speakers without any significant room echo. But… You’re still closely proximate to a large reflective surface (your computer screen and also your desk) that interfere with sound from the speakers. If your speakers are placed close to the listener in an open space where the closest reflecting surface is a (carpeted) floor, the impact of the original recording venue is more clearly apparent. This effect is obvious with even less-than-full-range speakers. Even single-driver computer speakers can astound in a truly non-reflective environment. Boom Missed this thread first go around ... Reminds me of how Morten Lindberg of 2L records makes recordings ... in churches or similar venues with the musicians far from the walls. He uses a "cage" of five or nine microphones (surround vs Atmos) placed several feet in front of and slightly above the musicians, usually with some diffusion on the floor if it's a small group like string quartet. No close-micing and mixing in post. His recently Grammy-nominated album Tuvayhun was recorded this way with a large number of musicians. My Rooze setup isn't exactly near field, but I do have the speakers 6-7ft into the room and I sit about 9ft away. |
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