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Post by quattroll2 on Jan 27, 2023 14:07:29 GMT -5
Hi Lounge,
I recently bought some gear from SMSL (DO100 dac $240), Topping (E70 dac $350) and Sabaj (A30a integrated $500).
My plan with the dacs was to try them out in several setups to see their performance relative to my DC-1 and XMC-1. That is ongoing, as I haven’t been able to try all the variations, especially using the dacs as preamps vs dac only. The DC-1 has a pretty nice analog in, and the XMC-1 has a balanced input. The reason for that is I’ve been busy enjoying the Sabaj, which is a pretty incredible piece!
The A30a is impressively built, with thick aluminum all around. The handles are very useful too as I have moved the unit around and tried it on a few different setups. I can’t believe what I’m hearing from this thing! It seems far more powerful than 200 watts at 4Ohms for one thing. I’ve pushed my Magnepan LRS to over 80 db at 50 on the volume. I’ve also hooked up my Sonus Faber Toy Towers (3 way, 89db?) and what I’m hearing is detailed, lush, fast and punchy with some really great air. I’m so impressed that I’m having a bit of an existential crisis with my gear.
I’m pretty sure that the Sabaj has my dacs beat (DC-1 and XMC-1) and my amps beaten too (SA250, XPA1L and PA-1s). If this is the case, then this unit changes everything for me. No bulky amps, no expensive interconnects, preamps and dacs.
This is available on Prime sporadically and I would suggest going there for a trial that can safely be returned. Incidentally there is talk of feature problems and they have been mostly fixed with V1.12. This had to do with subwoofer volume and defeat.
It is also worth pointing out that the A30a is a digital amp, not class D. This means that there is no dac in a conventional sense. I don’t fully understand it, but I believe that the amplification stage takes the digital signal directly.
Anyway, I just wanted to point this out and hear from anyone else that has tried it or is curious about it. From a price and performance point of view, I’m thinking this is a better value than the dacs I bought alongside. For not that much more, you get a heck of an amp. I just can’t comprehend how this thing is besting my other gear so soundly. Maybe it’s just the sound signature that suits me, but I have a hard time thinking that’s really what is going on.
Thanks for reading, I just had to get this out there!
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hemster
Global Moderator 
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,951
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Post by hemster on Jan 27, 2023 19:11:32 GMT -5
Interesting! Thanks for posting this.
There's not a whole lot of information out there on this unit. I did find a single 4-star review on amazon with the following comments as cons. The poster did not include any pros (not saying there aren't any).
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Post by MusicHead on Jan 29, 2023 16:38:28 GMT -5
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Post by quattroll2 on Jan 30, 2023 17:13:13 GMT -5
Thanks guys.
I thought I’d just follow up on the issues presented in the review that was posted above.
One thing first, the volume level is more like 65 to get 80ish db on the Magnepans. I had that wrong. As far as the volume issue, it is said to be fixed with the v1.12 version, which I have. This allows defeat, or 70 hz and up, that part is true. In practice, I have not had an issue with this. I did feel my subwoofer with the off position engaged, and I could feel it trembling, but I could not hear anything. I’m going to try some other gear in this manner to see if it is odd. I’m going to try another pair of speakers too, Era D14s. They are a relatively large 3 way with substantial bass.
The on/off issue may have been a fluke, I have turned the unit on an off with the remote, and have not discovered it in a state which I had not left it in. I may have jumped the gun on thinking that my amps are beaten by this thing, as I got some very good sound from the Topping E70 into the 1Ls and Magnepan .7s ( yes I currently have LRS too).
The E70 is a pretty cool unit. It has balance and triggers, rare on dacs I think. I just love how I can turn the amps on right from the dac power, and though I don’t need it in this particular location, the balance feature is great for a room with some issues. The form factor and build is very nice for $350, but the remote is cheapish and needs to be somewhat pointed at the device.
I also want to try my DC-1 just as a preamp. I’ve read it’s a nice analog resistor ladder? I’m wondering how the volume is handled in the Topping.
Thank you
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 10, 2023 10:45:33 GMT -5
I'm tempted by the Sabaj...
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,261
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Post by KeithL on Feb 10, 2023 12:36:13 GMT -5
It looks pretty cool (although I haven't seen or heard one in person). There is one thing I would point out, just for clarification... There is no specific technical distinction between "Class-D" and "digital". When it comes to amplifiers those terms are more or less interchangeable... In general "Class-D" refers to any amplifier where "the output stage operates using 1's and 0's rather than a continuously varying analog signal". This description applies to all "digital amplifiers" as well as a few other types (like PWM amplifier circuits - which can have analog inputs). It's also worth understanding that most modern "Class-D amplifiers" are really just "a DAC that puts out enough power to run speakers". Since virtually all current loudspeakers are analog the amplifiers we use with them are required to deliver an analog output... And this is still the case for the actual loudspeaker transducers inside "powered speakers" that have amplifiers built into them... It is technically possible to design a Class-D amplifier that directly accepts an analog input (including a basic PWM design)... However most modern designs don't work this way any more... (With most modern Class-D amplifiers, if they have an analog input, it's because an analog input and A/D converter were added to accommodate analog sources.) The reason why most preamps include both digital and analog inputs is simply because most of us have both digital and analog sources... Many modern processors are almost entirely digital in operation internally... They convert all analog inputs into digital "on the way in" and back into analog audio "on the way out"... And they do this simply because most power amps and powered speakers still have analog inputs... And most power amps and powered speakers still have analog inputs to accommodate the analog outputs from source components... At the moment it's really sort of "the chicken and egg" situation... (It's also true that, while there are a lot of current digital signal standards and formats, analog audio signals are still far more "standardized".) And, of course, some audiophiles prefer to have the option "staying analog - at least sometimes" and "avoiding A/D and D/A conversions"... That's why we offer the option of "a pure analog signal path" on our higher end processors... but only if you give up "the advanced digital features". My point here is simply to point out that it's actually quite simple to create "a totally digital amplifier"... It is really just "a DAC that puts out enough power to run speakers"... You could think of it as simply "a DAC with a really heavy-duty output stage". Hi Lounge, I recently bought some gear from SMSL (DO100 dac $240), Topping (E70 dac $350) and Sabaj (A30a integrated $500). My plan with the dacs was to try them out in several setups to see their performance relative to my DC-1 and XMC-1. That is ongoing, as I haven’t been able to try all the variations, especially using the dacs as preamps vs dac only. The DC-1 has a pretty nice analog in, and the XMC-1 has a balanced input. The reason for that is I’ve been busy enjoying the Sabaj, which is a pretty incredible piece! The A30a is impressively built, with thick aluminum all around. The handles are very useful too as I have moved the unit around and tried it on a few different setups. I can’t believe what I’m hearing from this thing! It seems far more powerful than 200 watts at 4Ohms for one thing. I’ve pushed my Magnepan LRS to over 80 db at 50 on the volume. I’ve also hooked up my Sonus Faber Toy Towers (3 way, 89db?) and what I’m hearing is detailed, lush, fast and punchy with some really great air. I’m so impressed that I’m having a bit of an existential crisis with my gear. I’m pretty sure that the Sabaj has my dacs beat (DC-1 and XMC-1) and my amps beaten too (SA250, XPA1L and PA-1s). If this is the case, then this unit changes everything for me. No bulky amps, no expensive interconnects, preamps and dacs. This is available on Prime sporadically and I would suggest going there for a trial that can safely be returned. Incidentally there is talk of feature problems and they have been mostly fixed with V1.12. This had to do with subwoofer volume and defeat. It is also worth pointing out that the A30a is a digital amp, not class D. This means that there is no dac in a conventional sense. I don’t fully understand it, but I believe that the amplification stage takes the digital signal directly. Anyway, I just wanted to point this out and hear from anyone else that has tried it or is curious about it. From a price and performance point of view, I’m thinking this is a better value than the dacs I bought alongside. For not that much more, you get a heck of an amp. I just can’t comprehend how this thing is besting my other gear so soundly. Maybe it’s just the sound signature that suits me, but I have a hard time thinking that’s really what is going on. Thanks for reading, I just had to get this out there! |
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Post by quattroll2 on Feb 10, 2023 15:48:18 GMT -5
Thanks Keith for the detailed information. It helps to understand just what this product is. I have about ten days left on my potential return, and though I’m very impressed, there are reasons to maybe pass for now and possibly wait for another version. People have observed that the company usually just releases something else rather than fix issues. Not sure about that but they (SMSL and Topping too) are definitely producing a lot of products, at similar price points.
On the other hand, it is possible that a replacement won’t come and then I’ll be sorry. What is so great about this design is it compact, powerful, and sounds great. I love that I can set it up anywhere and instantly have awesome sound. I would like to try a Powernode and an Audiolab 6000 as I see these as comparable products. The build quality is really nice too.
I’m currently testing the Sabaj against the Topping E70 with PA-1s and at first use they are comparable, so I think that justifies the notion that this competes at the $1,000 level.
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Post by quattroll2 on Feb 10, 2023 16:07:32 GMT -5
Just wanted to add the only thing I would like to have revised is the ability to go full range and select the sub xover. As it is now, you can go to 70 high and low, or no sub. The easy sub adjustment level on the remote is pretty awesome. In practice, I have not felt like I needed these changes. That is why I would be happy to keep it. Also, I haven’t mentioned how enjoyable this unit is. It’s one thing to sit and compare gear with test tracks and zero in on the various cues that reveal the sound, but it’s another to just put on whatever and get into it, and this is what the Sabaj has in spades for me. Set up with my WiiM I have access to everything and it’s just really fun and engaging.
Now the news of new Emotiva dacs complicates the picture further…
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Post by vcautokid on Feb 11, 2023 8:33:42 GMT -5
If I recall correctly, Topping, SMSL, and Sabaj all come from the house of Shenzen. This now is the hot place for really cool gear coming out that is very attainable. I have the Topping a30pro headphone amplifier, and SMSL SU-8s...I believe that is the number, and the SMSL Sanskrit mk.2 10th anniversary edition. This one especially I call the squirt is really entertaining to me. Way better than the AKM DAC inside my Schiit Asgard 3. So not surprising that the Sabaj A30a does well. While some of refinement depends on what your expectations, and instances are may not be flawless, they are quick on the ever tasty new products. I am checking out the Topping E70, and L70 depending what Emotiva does on with their up and coming DAC. About $700.00 for both E70 and L70 respectively. It is pretty tough to overlook these gems for me, and my friends who are not in the hyper money to blow lifestyle.
The Eversolo Z6 and Z8 have my attention too. $699.00 for the Z8. Headphone stage is good, but I am mostly after the DAC. I may pair this with the Topping L70. Or just pair it with my a30pro Topping, who knows? This market is highly contested with many choices. Really something for everyone.
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Post by lunatic on Mar 15, 2023 5:18:03 GMT -5
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