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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 8, 2023 11:07:32 GMT -5
So let's establish criteria first: - Solid state only (no tube amps)
- Currently available new in USA (no discontinued vintage amps)
- Must have remote control volume (no desktop/headphone amps)
- Must cost $600 or less (no Bryston or McIntosh amps)
- Must have enough power to drive real speakers (no 10-watt wonders)
- Must sound like music (no "pro" gear)
MODEL | WPC | COST | CLASS | DAC INCLUDED? | | Emotiva BasX TA-1 | 60 | $600 | A/B | USB/Coax/Optical | | Onkyo A-9150 | 60 | $600 | A/B | Coax/Optical | | Denon PMA-600NE | 45 | $500 | A/B | Coax/Optical | | NAD D 3020 V2 | 30 | $500 | D | Coax/Optical | | Yamaha A-S501 | 85 | $550 | A/B | Coax/Optical | | SMSL AO200 | 150 | $245 | D | USB |
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Post by brutiarti on Feb 8, 2023 12:30:40 GMT -5
So let's establish criteria first: - Solid state only (no tube amps)
- Currently available new in USA (no discontinued vintage amps)
- Must have remote control volume (no desktop/headphone amps)
- Must cost $600 or less (no Bryston or McIntosh amps)
- Must have enough power to drive real speakers (no 10-watt wonders)
- Must sound like music (no "pro" gear)
MODEL | WPC | COST | CLASS | DAC INCLUDED? | | Emotiva BasX TA-1 | 60 | $600 | A/B | USB/Coax/Optical | | Onkyo A-9150 | 60 | $600 | A/B | Coax/Optical | | Denon PMA-600NE | 45 | $500 | A/B | Coax/Optical | | NAD D 3020 V2 | 30 | $500 | D | Coax/Optical | | Yamaha A-S501 | 85 | $550 | A/B | Coax/Optical | | SMSL AO200 | 150 | $245 | D | USB |
Cambridge Audio CXA61 |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 8, 2023 13:47:59 GMT -5
The Cambridge is $1,100. A full $500 above the criteria for this list. That’s why I didn’t list it.
From what I understand, it IS a good amp, though...
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Post by brutiarti on Feb 8, 2023 15:01:13 GMT -5
Sorry I saw the price of the refurbished units directly from cambridge on fleebay
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Post by LuisV on Feb 8, 2023 22:26:01 GMT -5
Cambridge Audio AXA35 - $399
My son has one, for the money, it sounds rather good...
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 8, 2023 22:42:50 GMT -5
Cambridge Audio AXA35 - $399 Although it does have a remote and 35 WPC it lacks the onboard DAC that every other contender has. It also sports the worst THD spec of any contender (0.15). I didn’t consider it competitive… Before I’d have my friend look at the Cambridge, I think he should look at the Yamaha A-S301. At 60 WPC and an onboard DAC, the little Yamaha, at the $50 less than the Cambridge, seems a better deal? But you may be right - I haven’t heard the Cambridge and specs can be misleading. |
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Post by LuisV on Feb 8, 2023 23:13:07 GMT -5
Cambridge Audio AXA35 - $399 Although it does have a remote and 35 WPC it lacks the onboard DAC that every other contender has. It also sports the worst THD spec of any contender (0.15). I didn’t consider it competitive… Before I’d have my friend look at the Cambridge, I think he should look at the Yamaha A-S301. At 60 WPC and an onboard DAC, the little Yamaha, at the $50 less than the Cambridge, seems a better deal? But you may be right - I haven’t heard the Cambridge and specs can be misleading. He purchased his from their eBay store as refurbished, so he paid less than MSRP. Its sound is on the warmer side of neutral, so it's truly listenable for hours upon hours without any fatigue... it's not a powerhouse, but for the price, it's surely hard to beat. Crutchfield sells both Yamaha and Cambridge and they have a great in home trial period / policy, so he can always purchase both and return whichever one doesn't float his boat. |
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Post by knucklehead on Feb 9, 2023 0:57:10 GMT -5
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Post by 405x5 on Feb 9, 2023 14:12:39 GMT -5
“So let's establish criteria first” I would suggest establishing the question first. 600 VS “economy” and how do you define that in terms of the whole system package? For my part, I wouldn’t characterize 600 bucks as being economy in the context of the whole system. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 9, 2023 14:50:53 GMT -5
mI would suggest establishing the question first. 600 VS “economy” and how do you define that in terms of the whole system package? For my part, I wouldn’t characterize 600 bucks as being economy in the context of the whole system. Simple enough - A friend is searching for a replacement for their deceased old integrated, and has stated that $600 is the budget. They want new gear with a warranty. They don’t host frat parties and say that 30 WPC on up should suffice. They want remote volume and a built-in DAC. So far, the Yamaha seems to be leading the poll… Further surprises include that despite this being the Emotiva Lounge, the BasX has not a single vote. I’m also surprised that the SMSL has no votes despite offering more than twice the power at less than half the price… |
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Post by 405x5 on Feb 9, 2023 15:26:43 GMT -5
mI would suggest establishing the question first. 600 VS “economy” and how do you define that in terms of the whole system package? For my part, I wouldn’t characterize 600 bucks as being economy in the context of the whole system. Simple enough - A friend is searching for a replacement for their deceased old integrated, and has stated that $600 is the budget. They want new gear with a warranty. They don’t host frat parties and say that 30 WPC on up should suffice. They want remote volume and a built-in DAC. So far, the Yamaha seems to be leading the poll… Further surprises include that despite this being the Emotiva Lounge, the BasX has not a single vote. I’m also surprised that the SMSL has no votes despite offering more than twice the power at less than half the price… You have no pole yet sad to say to date all two of the responses have not met your own criteria. |
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Post by martindktm on Feb 9, 2023 23:09:42 GMT -5
In my garage and in my restaurant/bar I run R-S202's from Yamaha. Cheapest unit they build I think (150-250$ range new)... Of course is sounding neutral yamaha sound... In the garage it drive 4 Mission Lx-1 speaker with a polk Audio 10'' sub. It sound ok but not perfect. Subwoofer placement and concrete block wall is an issue in the garage.
The other R-S202 in the restaurant/bar drives 4 Definitve technology AW6500 speaker. And they are a great match to it. Good low frequency. In fact im amaze by the match. It sounds better than I ever expected when feed by a good quality source/recording. And this unit does take a beating. Runs 365 days a year, from 7 am to sometime 3am at very high sound level as the nigh get late late late... and it never failed. I cannot say anything really bad about it.
It sure doesn't sound even close to my home living room setup (Musical fidelity M6si/Focal Aria 926) but it's quite damn good when you find speakers that match it well.
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 10, 2023 10:20:04 GMT -5
My experienc with Yamaha AVRs is (curiously) that the cheapest models sound the best. This would seem counterintuitive. The more expensive models should have better parts, higher parts quality, and more sophisticated design. Yet the bottom of the barrel units (within their limitations) sound better. Go figure...
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cawgijoe
Emo VIPs 
"We made too many of the wrong mistakes." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,913
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Post by cawgijoe on Feb 10, 2023 10:22:00 GMT -5
My experienc with Yamaha AVRs is (curiously) that the cheapest models sound the best. This would seem counterintuitive. The more expensive models should have better parts, higher parts quality, and more sophisticated design. Yet the bottom of the barrel units (within their limitations) sound better. Go figure... This was the opposite in the 80's. I had a top of the line integrated amp from Yamaha (don't remember the model) and it had higher quality parts which were touted in their advertising. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 10, 2023 10:34:36 GMT -5
This was the opposite in the 80's. I had a top of the line integrated amp from Yamaha (don't remember the model) and it had higher quality parts which were touted in their advertising. Well, I guess I need to clarify... The more expensive Yamaha gear (both stereo and AVR units) is very good sounding. If you need the power (or the amperage for low impedance speakers), then the more expensive models will handily outperform the inexpensive ones. So if you like to listen loudly, if you have a huge room, or if you have difficult-to-drive speakers, there is no question but that the higher end Yamaha models do a better job than the entry level models. But if you have highly-sensitive speakers (I was using Klipsch), listen only at lower volumes, and/or have a smaller listening room - then the bottom models of the Yamaha line can astound. They're not only "good for the money," but can compete with REALLY good electronics. I bought a bottom of the line Yamaha AVR at a yard sale for $20 and almost sold all the other amplifiers I had because the little Yamaha sounded so good! Was this just a synergistic combination with the rest of my system? Maybe, but the sound quality was THERE! Would that little AVR do as well driving my current GoldenEar Triton 3+ speakers? I doubt it, but I really don't know... There IS a lot to be said for more wattage, higher current capability, and better construction quality - IF you need it. But for those of us with high sensitivity speakers, I'd recommend at least auditioning the economy models of the Yamaha line for compatibility in your systems. Boomzilla |
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Post by vcautokid on Feb 11, 2023 9:10:51 GMT -5
I picked the TA-1. I have no application for it but since I have 2 BAS-X A2 already, I have a pretty good idea how the TA-1 may sound.
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Post by leonski on Feb 13, 2023 17:24:32 GMT -5
I would NEVER buy anything from Cambridge Audio again. A poor and greedy bunch to deal with.
I bought the TOP LINE 840 CD player with many novel features AND useful as a 2 input DAC......But it required a firmware update to use with my Apple Airport Express.
Which they wanted to CHARGE me for. Player alone with well-north of 1000$ retail. Player had a Serial port for this work and they sent me the software with NO GUARANTEE. Brick it? It's YOUR problem.
And than? My DAC Magic+ crapped out and they won't even send me a schematic.
BTW? The 840 used the same transport section as every OTHER player in the CA line at that time.
I see the above vote gravitates to the highest power amp in the list. No surprise there, with this clientele. While I'd take a good look, I'd HOPE the NAD followed in tracks of the original version of the same #......
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 13, 2023 19:06:03 GMT -5
Decision made. Neighbors got a Yamaha A-S501 and are very happy with it.
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Post by leonski on Feb 13, 2023 21:57:13 GMT -5
you'll know how good the Cambridge is IF you ever have to fix it....which based on my small sample, won't be THAT far in the future......
Yamaha can do nice stuff if they put the 'corporate mind' to it......NAD has had a few rough patches.
If you had said used ok? ONKYO made a 'd' integrated a few years back which stereophile and consumers BOTH loved.....
And it was priced at a modest point.
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 14, 2023 10:45:18 GMT -5
Nah - the neighbors wanted new with warranty, it turns out. They’re the sort to buy something and use it for decades till it breaks.
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