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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 23, 2023 21:06:34 GMT -5
In my computer room I run a Netgear cable-modem / Ethernet-Router / WiFi Base Station. My music server is connected by Ethernet as is my Apple TV3 at the far end of the house.
The controller for my music server is an iPad mini running Roon Remote. In the listening room at the opposite end of the house from the Netgear WiFi base station, the WiFi signal strength is variable enough that the iPad sometimes loses contact with the music server.
I’m looking for ways to prevent these occasional dropouts. Several potential strategies occur to me. I’d appreciate your consideration and advice regarding these options:
1. Use the Apple TV as a signal booster for the existing Netgear WiFi network. This would boost the WiFi signal strength in the listening room and hopefully prevent iPad loss of signal. I’ve tried to Google this and I’m not sure that the Apple TV3 will do this.
2. Create a different WiFi network on the Apple TV3 and connect the iPad to the new WiFi network. But this creates the question of whether Roon Remote on the iPad / Apple TV3 network will be able to “see” the Roon core over the Ethernet. I don’t know…
3. Buy a Netgear WiFi booster and locate it in the listening room. I’m sure that this would work, and the actual music flow from the music server to the core would still be over Ethernet.
4. Move the existing Netgear base station from the computer room to the listening room. This would achieve the WiFi signal-strength improvement of option 3 without the expense of buying a signal booster. It would also leave the actual music flow from the music server to the Apple3 TV hardwired over Ethernet.
Which is the best option and why?
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Post by garbulky on Feb 23, 2023 21:30:00 GMT -5
There's a lot of good choices for mesh networks especially if you are not using a million devices. The most easy solution though is simply buying another netgear router.
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Feb 23, 2023 21:35:14 GMT -5
I mean, you could create multiple networks... but, ultimately it comes down to the internet speeds you're getting from your ISP.
Here I'm not talking about tweaks to network settings (which are a leveler, whether you use multiple networks or not... but in the former case, there is the potential to add more latecy if you're not careful).
I have suffered the same the same malady as you but I found that when I installed an Orbi Netgear mesh system, not only my issues went away, but I get extended reach wireless reach about 3 doors down!
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Post by garbulky on Feb 23, 2023 22:02:40 GMT -5
Yep sometimes just knowing you have a stable internet connection is worth the cost*
*Having said that, I'm not totally gripe free with my Orbi
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 23, 2023 22:33:57 GMT -5
There's a lot of good choices for mesh networks especially if you are not using a million devices. The most easy solution though is simply buying another netgear router. Why is another router superior to just moving the existing router? The only WiFi device in the whole house IS the iPad with Roon Remote. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 23, 2023 22:40:04 GMT -5
I mean, you could create multiple networks... but, ultimately it comes down to the internet speeds you're getting from your ISP. Here I'm not talking about tweaks to network settings (which are a leveler, whether you use multiple networks or not... but in the former case, there is the potential to add more latecy if you're not careful). I have suffered the same the same malady as you but I found that when I installed an Orbi Netgear mesh system, not only my issues went away, but I get extended reach wireless reach about 3 doors down! Why does internet speed matter? None of my “normal” connections occur outside of my in-house network. I do occasionally stream from Qobuz, but I’ve never had dropouts there. Also, why would latency matter? No streaming is happening over wireless - all audio flows via Ethernet - only the selection requests occur over wireless. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 23, 2023 22:41:07 GMT -5
Yep sometimes just knowing you have a stable internet connection is worth the cost* *Having said that, I'm not totally gripe free with my Orbi What Orbi issues have you had? |
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Post by MusicHead on Feb 23, 2023 23:02:35 GMT -5
#4.
- Simple
- Immediate
- No added cost
- Keep the most important connection on the best and most reliable medium: a wire
- If you still are not satisfied you can try something else without having spent a dime for the attempt
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Post by 405x5 on Feb 23, 2023 23:20:26 GMT -5
I live in a crowded field of Internet providers, and especially on the weekends interference was becoming a problem in my house. All of that went away when I opted for a mesh system from Linksys. It was like building a moat around the castle. I became a little bit jaundiced, when I would go look at the routers with 1000 antennas sticking up all over the place. I have three nodes in my mesh system although I am sure that two (and maybe even one) would have done the trick, so the overkill is just fine. I pay for 200, but pinging between 210 and 215 all the time. HD streaming is gorgeous and my connections are great no matter how many devices are around here……no more rabbit ears.
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Post by garbulky on Feb 23, 2023 23:23:39 GMT -5
Yep sometimes just knowing you have a stable internet connection is worth the cost* *Having said that, I'm not totally gripe free with my Orbi What Orbi issues have you had? I am running right up against their recommended limits for the number of devices. I experienced intermitten dropouts and had to reboot every once in a while. I solved it by connecting the routers by ethernet. As for hemster comments about the speed. When you have multiple devices watching internet video, the speed becomes important. You don't want to be watching a streaming video and then have it start buffering when your partner watches something on their phone. For latency, it is not so important for most unless you want gaming and voice communication etc. |
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Post by garbulky on Feb 23, 2023 23:30:13 GMT -5
There's a lot of good choices for mesh networks especially if you are not using a million devices. The most easy solution though is simply buying another netgear router. Why is another router superior to just moving the existing router? The only WiFi device in the whole house IS the iPad with Roon Remote. Why not try it and see with just moving it. And if that doesn't work out, try something else? My thought was the importance of a reliable signal. I assume you and yours use the wifi on your phones? My phone wifi used to cutout during facetime calls when I turned on my microwave. Now , I have one router on either side of the kitchen where the microwave is. Now my phone doesn't dropout. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 23, 2023 23:37:20 GMT -5
What Orbi issues have you had? I am running right up against their recommended limits for the number of devices. I experienced intermitten dropouts and had to reboot every once in a while. I solved it by connecting the routers by ethernet. As for hemster comments about the speed. When you have multiple devices watching internet video, the speed becomes important. You don't want to be watching a streaming video and then have it start buffering when your partner watches something on their phone. For latency, it is not so important for most unless you want gaming and voice communication etc. Thanks for the info, garbulky - I don't think any of those issues will apply to me. I have only one device at a time that will need to be on wifi. When I'm printing, it's the printer & when I'm listening to music, it's the iPad. I'd not do both simultaneously. I'd have no issues with buffering, gaming, or voice communications either. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 23, 2023 23:39:36 GMT -5
Why is another router superior to just moving the existing router? The only WiFi device in the whole house IS the iPad with Roon Remote. Why not try it and see with just moving it. And if that doesn't work out, try something else? My thought was the importance of a reliable signal. I assume you and yours use the wifi on your phones? My phone wifi used to cutout during facetime calls when I turned on my microwave. Now , I have one router on either side of the kitchen where the microwave is. Now my phone doesn't dropout. If we were on FaceTime with our kids, we wouldn't be listening to music or streaming video at the same time. So this issue shouldn't affect us either. Thanks again for the feedback! I also checked my internet speeds and found that I'm getting 298 MBps download and 11 MBps upload. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Feb 24, 2023 7:58:04 GMT -5
Why not try it and see with just moving it. And if that doesn't work out, try something else? My thought was the importance of a reliable signal. I assume you and yours use the wifi on your phones? My phone wifi used to cutout during facetime calls when I turned on my microwave. Now , I have one router on either side of the kitchen where the microwave is. Now my phone doesn't dropout. If we were on FaceTime with our kids, we wouldn't be listening to music or streaming video at the same time. So this issue shouldn't affect us either. Thanks again for the feedback! I also checked my internet speeds and found that I'm getting 298 MBps download and 11 MBps upload. I would also suggest moving the router first. The difference in those internet speeds are troubling. My system has the router in the upstairs master bedroom which is not ideal, but that's where the FIOS connection comes in. I found that wifi was hit or miss, mostly miss in the basement and in the family room on tha main level, it was just ok. So I ran an ethernet cable from the router to behind my AV system in the family room, and another ethernt cable from the router to the basement. Connected to wall plates so the install looks nice. I then use ethernet switches to "expand" my connectivity. I also had two Apple Airport Extremes that I wasn't using, so I have one in the family room and one in the basement to extend my wifi network. They have worked great for doing that. I know they are old tech now, but they are doing the job. I now have wifi througout the house. I have FIOS gigabit speed and my speed connected directly to the router is anywhere from 860mbps to 910mbps up and down...wifi speed depends on the device...my iphone 13 comes in at 300 to 400 and my ipad M1 at 450 to 500 both up and down. |
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butchgo
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Post by butchgo on Feb 24, 2023 8:54:02 GMT -5
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Post by rbk123 on Feb 24, 2023 9:54:46 GMT -5
Option 4 is a no-brainer to try first - simply do it and if it solves the problem you are done. If not, go from there.
Multiple routers - the only issue is Windows and certain other network protocols do not pass through routers (easily). A mesh solves this issue, but has its own pros/cons.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Feb 24, 2023 10:57:45 GMT -5
I've been working with network technology for a VERY long time.... and here's my "take" on the situation.
As with many things, when it comes to networks, there is no such thing as "a magic bullet".
Therefore I'm just going to offer a handful of separate "observations":
1.
This sound silly but, when it comes to Internet speed, the first and most important thing is your Internet connection.
There is nothing you can do inside your house that will help if you have a slow Internet connection.
2.
You should also EXPECT your Internet speed to vary WIDELY depending on things like time of day.
Read the fine print on your contract; it says "UP TO xxx speed"; it does NOT say "minimum speed".
The details here will depend on your ISP and your location.
Think of the Internet like the US highway system.
Your ISP is like your local freeway exit...
And NetFlix is like a busy local airport.
All of those roads have speed limits... but it's usually the traffic that slows you down.
3.
WiFi is cool... and it's convenient... and it is CAPABLE of really impressive speeds.
But it's still RADIO... like Bluetooth... or your Cell phone...
There WILL be gaps, and weak spots, and "shadows"...
If you really want to be 100% sure to avoid those things then use a wire.
If you want consistent speed... and the full speed your network is capable of... use a wire.
(Your old wired phone never dropped a call... )
(And there's a reason why most of the lamps in your home still use a wall plug instead of batteries too... )
4.
Mesh networks can be an improvement.
Just remember that they are also more complex.
This means that some software won't work, or won't work well, with them.
And, since there are more complex devices involved, it means that there is more to go wrong.
I'm going to close with a bit of an "old network guy rant"....
And I'm going to start that with a really smarmy, but absolutely accurate, comment:
The ONLY reason we have things like mesh networks IN HOMES is to overcome the obvious FLAWS and WEAKNESSES of WiFi.
What actually goes on inside a network is complicated... really really complicated...
(Forty years ago it fit in a set of volumes the size of a small encyclopedia... and it's far worse now.)
With modern network gear most of that complexity is well hidden behind the proverbial curtain...
And, most of the time, this works out pretty well...
But, as usual, there is a catch...
That catch is that we have far less visibility and control than we used to.
This means that, when something doesn't work right, it can be very difficult to track down and fix.
In the case of things like mesh routers, and even modern WiFi, to at least some degree "the system designs itself".
Which sort of leaves us stuck with hoping that it gets it all right.
(But we have little choice since most of us really wouldn't want to have to figure it out ourselves.)
However... based on my experience... this would be my advice:
1. use a wire (Ethernet) whenever you can (I don't know anyone with actual network experience who would disagree with that)
2. use a wired switch whenever you can (switches are really simple; routers tend to slow things down but even most cheap switches are absurdly fast)
3. use WiFi as little as possible (WiFi is too variable, too inconsistent, and too easy to interfere with)
4. if you really must use WiFi use it for as short a distance as possible (see #3)
5. TRY to remain "in the know" and "in control" of your network
The general version of that advice FOR NEW INSTALLATIONS is:
Put at least one Ethernet outlet in every room.
Run a cable directly from each of those outlets to a single location (your "network closet").
(This arrangement is generally referred to as "having home runs back to the closet"...)
It's a pretty good idea to put that somewhere near the center (like in your garage or basement).
Whatever switches you need then go "in the closet".
You can get a switch with enough ports for all the wires... or plug in wires, and add ports later, as you need them.
(You can "stack switches", they come in ALL sizes, and tend not to be terribly expensive... )
And, incidentally, Ethernet wires are good for up to 100 meters (officially 295 feet).
If you need several connections in a room you can simply add, you guessed it, a switch... functional 8 port switches start at less than $10.
And, if your house is really bigger than that, you should add another closet (or just a switch) at the other end.
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Post by LuisV on Feb 24, 2023 11:18:17 GMT -5
Here's my quick and dirty recommendation... Since you have an ethernet cable at the AppleTV within that room, here's what I would do: - Purchase a 5 - 8 port switch
- Purchase a wireless access point
- Unless you have extras, purchase an ethernet cable
- Disconnect the ethernet cable from the AppleTV and connect it to Port 1 of the switch
- Connect the AppleTV to Port 2 via ethernet
- Connect the wireless access point via ethernet on Port 3
Follow the directions to the wireless access point to enable and configure the new access point. You should be able to leverage the existing SSID information from your router and therefore as your wireless devices roam throughout the house, they will automatically switch between access points (router and new access point) based on signal strength. This resolves any wireless issues within that room; probably the entire side of the home. For a better more robust setup... purchase two or more wireless access points, based on home size and number of "dead zones". Connect both via ethernet and then disable the wireless antenna of your router thus allowing the access points to provide the wireless signal. Your router is then offloaded from wireless functions and should in itself work better. One or multiple of these wireless access points within the home, will resolve most if not all of your wireless issues.  |
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Feb 24, 2023 11:20:18 GMT -5
You've noted the main catch with routers... Routers tend to be rather particular about what protocols they pass... Whereas wired switches by default pass all Ethernet traffic. And, while most routers have at least some speed limitations, all but the lowliest of switches these days operate at full Ethernet speed. Option 4 is a no-brainer to try first - simply do it and if it solves the problem you are done. If not, go from there. Multiple routers - the only issue is Windows and certain other network protocols do not pass through routers (easily). A mesh solves this issue, but has its own pros/cons. |
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Feb 24, 2023 11:24:05 GMT -5
I think I would add that, especially if you're doing this all at once, it's best to go with several of the same make and model of access points. There are standards but, since there might be overlaps, you're less likely to have problems that way. (You can at least assume that the most compatibility testing will have been done between identical units.) Here's my quick and dirty recommendation... Since you have an ethernet cable at the AppleTV within that room, here's what I would do: - Purchase a 5 - 8 port switch
- Purchase a wireless access point
- Unless you have extras, purchase an ethernet cable
- Disconnect the ethernet cable from the AppleTV and connect it to Port 1 of the switch
- Connect the AppleTV to Port 2 via ethernet
- Connect the wireless access point via ethernet on Port 3
Follow the directions to the wireless access point to enable and configure the new access point. You should be able to leverage the existing SSID information from your router and therefore as your wireless devices roam throughout the house, they will automatically switch between access points (router and new access point) based on signal strength. This resolves any wireless issues within that room; probably the entire side of the home. For a better more robust setup... purchase two or more wireless access points, based on home size and number of "dead zones". Connect both via ethernet and then disable the wireless antenna of your router thus allowing the access points to provide the wireless signal. Your router is then offloaded from wireless functions and should in itself work better. One or multiple of these wireless access points within the home, will resolve most if not all of your wireless issues. |
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