|
|
Post by geebo on Jul 29, 2023 8:40:40 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by PaulBe on Jul 29, 2023 9:18:34 GMT -5
Finally had a chance to do a little listening today. I briefly tried out the Oppo PM2's and I'd say the XDA headphone amp is better than that of the RMC-1L but I did not compare it to the DC-1 because it's in a different system and the DAC used would be different anyway. But from my recollection I'd say it may be on par with the DC-1 or perhaps a little below. I had the volume as high as -6dB for the cans which would be louder than I normally listen. My comfort level was around -15 to -12dB so more power than I need and very clean and punchy even at the -6dB level. Noteworthy is that the XDA-3 has up to 12dB of gain and the 0 setting has no gain and no attenuation. With the analog volume control we lose no resolution when lowering the volume. For my listening with the speakers I left the volume at 0. And of course, the XDA-3 has separate memories for headphone and speaker listening. As for the DAC I can say it sounds extremely good especially with well recorded material whether it be DSD or PCM. Very detailed and not at all harsh. I only have a few files using DSD128 and some FLACs at 24/192 and they all played flawlessly. For DSD I tried both Native and DOP and both just worked but I could not tell a difference between them. The USB input has an edge in quality using my Zidoo Z2600 over the SPD/IF input. I did not play around with the different filters and don't expect to hear much if any difference there. I have it set on filter #2 FWIW. And I much prefer the full rack width format in my setup and the XDA-3 looks great in the rack as my wife predicted it would. I'm extremely happy with it at this point. I'm using the balanced outputs to my RMC-1L and Direct listening mode. When I switched the Zidoo's output to USB the Z2600 immediately recognized the XDA-3 and the following popped up on the Zidoo screen: VID/PID: 0x2fc6-0xf801 Device: SXW CTUAD768 PRM-A Maximum formats: PCM 32Bit, DSD 512 Maximum sampling rate: 768000Hz Thanks for your initial review. I played a lot of music yesterday using the XDA-3. I won't say too much yet about the sound because I'm still working out a few kinks. But, I couldn't stop playing and listening. The sound is very detailed and dynamic, showing both flaws and good from performance and recording, while drawing me more deeply into the recording - I like that. The flaws matter less and the music takes precedence. The headphone amp drives both the low and high impedance phones I have well. They both sound good. They are different one from the other. The low impedance Sony's are about 10dB more sensitive than the Sennheisers. I like the separate volume control for phones and line out. Balanced Line Out is connected to Balanced Line In of a pair of powered Focal CMS 65 monitors. The CMS 65's have never sounded better. Kinks - All computer audio shows as 48K sample rate on the front panel regardless of actual file sample rate, and remains the same whether I use the SPDIF computer output or USB - USB is recognized with the same device info as for you. I have only WAV files at 44.1K, 48K, and 96K sample rates. 48K and 96K files are recordings of LPs using my phono pre digital out with VinylStudio recording software. All YouTube music displays as 48K. CD's display as 44.1k. All 2 channel 24bit 48K, 96K, and 192K discs display as 48K on the XDA-3 front panel. Digital outs on the Blu-ray players are set for highest sample rates - 96K on one, and 192K on the others. The 24bit 96K output of my phono preamp shows as 96K on the XDA-3 front panel. The front panel on my RMC-1L displays the correct information for sample rates of discs and the optical SPDIF from the phono pre - I use HDMI to the RMC-1L from the players. When I work out the displayed format kinks, I will talk more about the sound and other things. |
|
|
|
Post by eurorom on Jul 29, 2023 9:20:37 GMT -5
I only have one concern...most DAC's that have volume controls and we use as preamp. Do not sound good, they sound compressed. Can Keith comment on this matter! I am ordering one which I will use with my POWERED STUDIO MONITORS and SUBWOOFER! Also can we use the XLR output connectors together with the unbalance outputs at the same time???
Thanks looking forward to playing with this DAC!
|
|
|
|
Post by geebo on Jul 29, 2023 9:56:45 GMT -5
Finally had a chance to do a little listening today. I briefly tried out the Oppo PM2's and I'd say the XDA headphone amp is better than that of the RMC-1L but I did not compare it to the DC-1 because it's in a different system and the DAC used would be different anyway. But from my recollection I'd say it may be on par with the DC-1 or perhaps a little below. I had the volume as high as -6dB for the cans which would be louder than I normally listen. My comfort level was around -15 to -12dB so more power than I need and very clean and punchy even at the -6dB level. Noteworthy is that the XDA-3 has up to 12dB of gain and the 0 setting has no gain and no attenuation. With the analog volume control we lose no resolution when lowering the volume. For my listening with the speakers I left the volume at 0. And of course, the XDA-3 has separate memories for headphone and speaker listening. As for the DAC I can say it sounds extremely good especially with well recorded material whether it be DSD or PCM. Very detailed and not at all harsh. I only have a few files using DSD128 and some FLACs at 24/192 and they all played flawlessly. For DSD I tried both Native and DOP and both just worked but I could not tell a difference between them. The USB input has an edge in quality using my Zidoo Z2600 over the SPD/IF input. I did not play around with the different filters and don't expect to hear much if any difference there. I have it set on filter #2 FWIW. And I much prefer the full rack width format in my setup and the XDA-3 looks great in the rack as my wife predicted it would. I'm extremely happy with it at this point. I'm using the balanced outputs to my RMC-1L and Direct listening mode. When I switched the Zidoo's output to USB the Z2600 immediately recognized the XDA-3 and the following popped up on the Zidoo screen: VID/PID: 0x2fc6-0xf801 Device: SXW CTUAD768 PRM-A Maximum formats: PCM 32Bit, DSD 512 Maximum sampling rate: 768000Hz Thanks for your initial review. I played a lot of music yesterday using the XDA-3. I won't say too much yet about the sound because I'm still working out a few kinks. But, I couldn't stop playing and listening. The sound is very detailed, showing both flaws and good from performance and recording, while drawing me more deeply into the recording - I like that. The flaws matter less and the music takes precedence. The headphone amp drives both the low and high impedance phones I have well. They both sound good. They are different one from the other. The low impedance Sony's are about 10dB more sensitive than the Sennheisers. I like the separate volume control for phones and line out. Balanced Line Out is connected to Balanced Line In of a pair of Focal CMS 65 monitors. Kinks - All computer audio shows as 48K sample rate on the front panel regardless of actual file sample rate, and remains the same whether I use the SPDIF computer output or USB - USB is recognized with the same device info as for you. I have only WAV files at 44.1K, 48K, and 96K sample rates. CD's display as 44.1k. All 2 channel 24bit 48K, 96K, and 192K discs display as 48K on the XDA-3 front panel. The 24bit 96K output of my phono preamp shows as 96K on the XDA-3 front panel. The front panel on my RMC-1L displays the correct information for sample rates of discs - I use HDMI IN to the RMC-1L. When I work out the displayed format kinks, I will talk more about the sound and other things. My XDA-3 is showing the correct bit rates for every file I tried which has only been from the Zidoo Z2600. I have not connected a computer to it. I did not have anything stored as .wav so I converted a couple (a FLAC and a DSD) to 24bit 96kHz .wav and played them from the Zidoo. Both displayed correctly as 96kHz on the XDA-3. I found the more I listened the more I wanted to keep listening. Like you, I was drawn into the recordings. The better recordings that is. |
|
|
|
Post by geebo on Jul 29, 2023 10:05:12 GMT -5
I only have one concern...most DAC's that have volume controls and we use as preamp. Do not sound good, they sound compressed. Can Keith comment on this matter! I am ordering one which I will use with my POWERED STUDIO MONITORS and SUBWOOFER! Also can we use the XLR output connectors together with the unbalance outputs at the same time??? Thanks looking forward to playing with this DAC! The XDA-3 uses " a true analog ladder network volume control for superb performance as both a DAC and a preamp". No bits are lost when lowering the volume and you also get up to 12dB of gain if needed. The outputs are not selectable so I would assume all are active simultaneously. |
|
|
|
Post by PaulBe on Jul 29, 2023 10:46:38 GMT -5
Thanks for your initial review. I played a lot of music yesterday using the XDA-3. I won't say too much yet about the sound because I'm still working out a few kinks. But, I couldn't stop playing and listening. The sound is very detailed, showing both flaws and good from performance and recording, while drawing me more deeply into the recording - I like that. The flaws matter less and the music takes precedence. The headphone amp drives both the low and high impedance phones I have well. They both sound good. They are different one from the other. The low impedance Sony's are about 10dB more sensitive than the Sennheisers. I like the separate volume control for phones and line out. Balanced Line Out is connected to Balanced Line In of a pair of Focal CMS 65 monitors. Kinks - All computer audio shows as 48K sample rate on the front panel regardless of actual file sample rate, and remains the same whether I use the SPDIF computer output or USB - USB is recognized with the same device info as for you. I have only WAV files at 44.1K, 48K, and 96K sample rates. CD's display as 44.1k. All 2 channel 24bit 48K, 96K, and 192K discs display as 48K on the XDA-3 front panel. The 24bit 96K output of my phono preamp shows as 96K on the XDA-3 front panel. The front panel on my RMC-1L displays the correct information for sample rates of discs - I use HDMI IN to the RMC-1L. When I work out the displayed format kinks, I will talk more about the sound and other things. My XDA-3 is showing the correct bit rates for every file I tried which has only been from the Zidoo Z2600. I have not connected a computer to it. I did not have anything stored as .wav so I converted a couple (a FLAC and a DSD) to 24bit 96kHz .wav and played them from the Zidoo. Both displayed correctly as 96kHz on the XDA-3. I found the more I listened the more I wanted to keep listening. Like you, I was drawn into the recordings. The better recordings that is. I found an article online to help with the computer sample rate display: integraudio.com/default-audio-format-windows-10/The computer was outputting 32 bit, 48K, by default. I changed to 32 bit, 384K. The XDA-3 now displays the computer USB out as 384K. The Microsoft test sound is better at 384K. Have to try the SPDIF computer Out to see what it does. One problem solved. Now for the players... |
|
|
|
Post by PaulBe on Jul 29, 2023 11:08:52 GMT -5
Finally had a chance to do a little listening today. I briefly tried out the Oppo PM2's and I'd say the XDA headphone amp is better than that of the RMC-1L but I did not compare it to the DC-1 because it's in a different system and the DAC used would be different anyway. But from my recollection I'd say it may be on par with the DC-1 or perhaps a little below. I had the volume as high as -6dB for the cans which would be louder than I normally listen. My comfort level was around -15 to -12dB so more power than I need and very clean and punchy even at the -6dB level. Noteworthy is that the XDA-3 has up to 12dB of gain and the 0 setting has no gain and no attenuation. With the analog volume control we lose no resolution when lowering the volume. For my listening with the speakers I left the volume at 0. And of course, the XDA-3 has separate memories for headphone and speaker listening. As for the DAC I can say it sounds extremely good especially with well recorded material whether it be DSD or PCM. Very detailed and not at all harsh. I only have a few files using DSD128 and some FLACs at 24/192 and they all played flawlessly. For DSD I tried both Native and DOP and both just worked but I could not tell a difference between them. The USB input has an edge in quality using my Zidoo Z2600 over the SPD/IF input. I did not play around with the different filters and don't expect to hear much if any difference there. I have it set on filter #2 FWIW. And I much prefer the full rack width format in my setup and the XDA-3 looks great in the rack as my wife predicted it would. I'm extremely happy with it at this point. I'm using the balanced outputs to my RMC-1L and Direct listening mode. When I switched the Zidoo's output to USB the Z2600 immediately recognized the XDA-3 and the following popped up on the Zidoo screen: VID/PID: 0x2fc6-0xf801 Device: SXW CTUAD768 PRM-A Maximum formats: PCM 32Bit, DSD 512 Maximum sampling rate: 768000Hz Thanks for your initial review. I played a lot of music yesterday using the XDA-3. I won't say too much yet about the sound because I'm still working out a few kinks. But, I couldn't stop playing and listening. The sound is very detailed and dynamic, showing both flaws and good from performance and recording, while drawing me more deeply into the recording - I like that. The flaws matter less and the music takes precedence. The headphone amp drives both the low and high impedance phones I have well. They both sound good. They are different one from the other. The low impedance Sony's are about 10dB more sensitive than the Sennheisers. I like the separate volume control for phones and line out. Balanced Line Out is connected to Balanced Line In of a pair of powered Focal CMS 65 monitors. The CMS 65's have never sounded better. Kinks - All computer audio shows as 48K sample rate on the front panel regardless of actual file sample rate, and remains the same whether I use the SPDIF computer output or USB - USB is recognized with the same device info as for you. I have only WAV files at 44.1K, 48K, and 96K sample rates. 48K and 96K files are recordings of LPs using my phono pre digital out with VinylStudio recording software. All YouTube music displays as 48K. CD's display as 44.1k. All 2 channel 24bit 48K, 96K, and 192K discs display as 48K on the XDA-3 front panel. Digital outs on the Blu-ray players are set for highest sample rates - 96K on one, and 192K on the others. The 24bit 96K output of my phono preamp shows as 96K on the XDA-3 front panel. The front panel on my RMC-1L displays the correct information for sample rates of discs and the optical SPDIF from the phono pre - I use HDMI to the RMC-1L from the players. When I work out the displayed format kinks, I will talk more about the sound and other things. One more small thing - I see Emotiva is more fully integrating their product look. The remote has the same look, front end and back end, as the XDA-3 has on front left and right. It's a small thing yet a nice touch. |
|
|
|
Post by vcautokid on Jul 29, 2023 12:55:34 GMT -5
How do you like it. I am thinking this or the Topping D70 pro. |
|
|
|
Post by geebo on Jul 29, 2023 13:20:22 GMT -5
How do you like it. I am thinking this or the Topping D70 pro. I like it enough to sell my Topping E50 DAC and P50 power supply.  |
|
|
|
Post by vcautokid on Jul 29, 2023 13:48:57 GMT -5
I think the product looks cool. In some ways I wish it had the same form factor as the DC-1 did. But sure, I think I will get one of these next month. Spent more money on camera gear again. |
|
|
|
Post by Cmmcneal on Jul 29, 2023 14:53:02 GMT -5
Are there ASIO drivers for windows.
|
|
|
|
Post by vcautokid on Jul 29, 2023 15:56:30 GMT -5
That was my next question, now that Windows has joined the 21st century and we are in the throws of plug and play, will I get the max sample and bitrate the XDA-3 is capable of or do you still need drivers like the XMOS ones and so on. Typically I have the ASIO and Wasappi ones. So no idea. Guess I could peruse the owners manual on that.
|
|
|
|
Post by vcautokid on Jul 29, 2023 15:58:08 GMT -5
4. USB (Digital) Input
Connect your computer or other similar digital audio source to this input. Your computer
or source device will recognize the XDA-3 as a USB Audio Class 2 (UAC2) compliant “USB
audio output device” or “external USB DAC”. (Some source devices may identify the XDA-3 as
“Emotiva XDA-3”. Others may report it as “SXW CTUAD768 PRM-A”, which is the name of the
high performance audio interface chip we use. And, if you’ve installed special drivers, it may be
identified by the driver or drivers you’ve chosen to use.)
See the section entitled Using The USB Input for more details. Okay the manual starts with this. Page 11.
|
|
|
|
Post by vcautokid on Jul 29, 2023 16:00:55 GMT -5
 and Page 15 tells you the rest. |
|
|
|
Post by cmacd200 on Jul 29, 2023 17:10:26 GMT -5
From the user manual for XDA-3. Note: The USB input on the XDA-3 will work, without additional drivers, on both current
Windows and Apple computers, as well as many smart phones and other source devices, and
supports PCM at sample rates up to and including 32/768k. ****However, by default, both Windows
and Apple computers resample any digital audio they play to a preset default sample rate****. I added the **** to highlight.
Many higher quality player programs offer ways to bypass this resampling but each has specific
settings and configuration options to do so.
"ASIO allows the software to bypass Windows Audio and gives direct communication to the hardware. This is the preferred driver mode for all professional recording and audio applications". Yes it will work without ASIO drivers but poorly. I have an Intel NUC with windows 11 running as a Roon endpoint. My Geshelli LABS DAC for example will not play any DSD over 128 without the drivers for that DAC. The sound quality for all PCM files improves substantially with the ASIO driver for the Amenero USB Module of that DAC. I suspect the same will be with the XDA-3 connected to a windows PC. I ordered the XDA-3 but without the ASIO drivers the DAC will not perform to its potential in my setup without the ASIO Drivers.
|
|
|
|
Post by whitwye on Jul 29, 2023 19:27:32 GMT -5
However, to be fair, you should NOT EVER expect a CD to sound like vinyl, for quite a few reasons: I'm not asking it to sound like vinyl. I'm asking it to sound similarly close to live music. And by "live music" I mean music as it sounds on the stage or studio, from the players' instruments {and amps if applicable), not blurred out through a PA. As it happens, from years of playing bass and guitars, and as a bass player listening closely to the drummer, I have a sense of when reproduction gets closer to the live sound. Yeah, vinyl always deviates, but decades of evolution in analog equipment produced some rigs that can get reasonably close to a live sound and feel. So vinyl approaches real from one direction, and digital approaches from another. My goal is to get as close to real with digital as I'm sometimes able to get with pure analog. Neither is every 100%. Both are highly dependent on the recording and mixing engineers. But given the best vinyl mix, or the best digital mix, can I get to 98%, or only, say, 85%? So to restate my goal: It's to get as close to real with quality digital sources as with quality vinyl mixes -- real approached from different sides to be sure, but the test being closeness to real, not how close vinyl and digital are to each other.
Sorry I didn't say that clearly to begin with.
|
|
|
|
Post by Nemesis.ie on Jul 30, 2023 1:14:31 GMT -5
No AES? An AES XLR input is a must-have for me.
Others have this in the price range, maybe without headphone and some other things, but I don't need those.
It would also be worth thinking about a product with e.g. Dante networked audio now maybe, so future processors with that could talk to multi-channel outboard DACs. Great for putting amps at opposite ends of the room and the like.
|
|
|
|
Post by sevenfeet on Jul 30, 2023 11:19:03 GMT -5
This is probably the first DAC from Emotiva I'm truly interested in buying. Feature set and price point work for me largely. I'm looking to put this in my two channel room where I've been looking to replace a tube pre-amp I had from Audible Illusions for many years before it cannot be repaired due to lack of parts. I'm also not made of money so budget is key.
And while I like the sound of a tube pre-amp, most of my listening this days is with Roon from my server and Tidal streaming. When the tube pre-amp died, I brought out my ancient but still useful Denon 3805 receiver from 20+ years ago to fill in until I could figure out what's next. The DAC currently in use is a Oppo portable HA-2 that I used to carry with me on all sorts of business trips before the battery became too exhausted to use so I've been using it as a non-portable device. A RP4 with RopeeeXL to feed the Oppo from Roon.
I'd like to move the HA2 to my bedroom and replace it with a product like the XDA-3. I could and probably would use it as a pre-amp. But my questions concern that I have a lot of legacy analog devices. Everything in my 2-channel rig is older technology.....Sony 8-track player from the 70s, an Sony open reel tape player, from the 70s, Technics turntable from the 80s, Onkyo cassette deck from the 80s, a Sony SACD/CD player from 20 years ago, a Parasound HCA-2200 stereo amp from 25 years ago and the most recent tech, an SVS SB-13 Ultra subwoofer. Now in reality, I play from Roon 95% of the time, 2% vinyl, 2% SACDs and I just like to have the other stuff working, just because.
So what's the best way to handle the legacy analog gear if the XDA-3 becomes the main pre-amp? Is it possible to still keep the Denon 3805 strictly as a pre-pre amp just for the legacy analog stuff and then connect its pre-out to the XDA-3?
I'm also assuming that I can route the XLR output to my SVS sub and then to the Parasound amp to handle bass management as I've been doing for years.
Thoughts?
|
|
|
|
Post by Radblue on Jul 31, 2023 3:42:07 GMT -5
I only have one concern...most DAC's that have volume controls and we use as preamp. Do not sound good, they sound compressed. Can Keith comment on this matter! I am ordering one which I will use with my POWERED STUDIO MONITORS and SUBWOOFER! Also can we use the XLR output connectors together with the unbalance outputs at the same time??? Thanks looking forward to playing with this DAC! I have the XDA-3 since Friday and can say it doesn't sound compressed(unless the recording is compressed) on my Lascala 2 's. Also, I have the RCA outputs going direct to my XPA-2 gen3 and the xlr outputs going into my XMC-1 for subwoofer control , so yes both can be used at same time |
|
|
|
Post by vcautokid on Jul 31, 2023 5:04:50 GMT -5
I am wondering how does it handle the first second or two of a stream, does it get the beginning of the song every time, or does it mute it sometimes for a second or two. I really am seriously looking at an XDA-3, and curious how it handles all that. I am not concerned about AES/EBU or Dante, as this product is for the consumer, and not studio environment. I have the Fiio K9 pro, and the Topping D70 Pro, and some others under consideration. Would really like the XDA-3 to be the top pick.
|
|
