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Post by geebo on Oct 13, 2023 13:37:09 GMT -5
Have you considered HDMI ARC? Or something like DVD Audio Extractor that works with BD Pure Audio. That will allow you to rip the multi-channel and/or stereo hi-res tracks. No I haven't. For all I do know about audio, this area is a blind spot for me. I have never used ARC for anything. I hardly used my computer as a player to play back ripped CDs until I bought the XDA-3. Now, my entire CD collection is ripped to computer. I upgraded my old JRiver software to the current version. JRiver remembered me after years of non-use and I received the upgrade price. I now use the XDA-3 for all ripped CD playback, some ripped LPs, and a couple of Hi-rez downloads. But, none of this goes to the RMC-1L and HT yet. I insisted on using all physical media and fell behind the learning curve. If I do rip multi-channel audio, I still can't play it anywhere - Another blind spot. I have a few household things to do before winter arrives. I'm not sure I understand the problem. If you rip the two channel track from a Blu-Ray as FLAC it would play from your computer like any other CD rip. Obviously a multi-channel rip can't be played through the XDA-3 but is easy via coax, Toslink or HDMI from the computer. |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 13, 2023 14:01:43 GMT -5
No I haven't. For all I do know about audio, this area is a blind spot for me. I have never used ARC for anything. I hardly used my computer as a player to play back ripped CDs until I bought the XDA-3. Now, my entire CD collection is ripped to computer. I upgraded my old JRiver software to the current version. JRiver remembered me after years of non-use and I received the upgrade price. I now use the XDA-3 for all ripped CD playback, some ripped LPs, and a couple of Hi-rez downloads. But, none of this goes to the RMC-1L and HT yet. I insisted on using all physical media and fell behind the learning curve. If I do rip multi-channel audio, I still can't play it anywhere - Another blind spot. I have a few household things to do before winter arrives. I'm not sure I understand the problem. If you rip the two channel track from a Blu-Ray as FLAC it would play from your computer like any other CD rip. Obviously a multi-channel rip can't be played through the XDA-3 but is easy via coax, Toslink or HDMI from the computer. So far, I haven't been able to rip any tracks from Blu-ray to the computer. Just CDs and the CD layer on hybrid SACDs. My Blu-ray reader/writer, a new 2023 Pioneer with USB3, doesn't allow it. Perhaps I'm missing some settings. JRiver defaulted to ripping CDs as FLAC, but I changed the default to WAV. Are you saying I can send multi-channel audio from the computer over Toslink or coax? To the RMC? I have a spare HDMI connector on the computer video card, and spare Toslink and coax on the back panel of the computer. |
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Post by Audiobliss on Oct 13, 2023 17:19:43 GMT -5
The XDA3 is sounding better every day. My only gripe is the volume adjustment using the remote, not sure if it's the same using the front panel buttons. It's just too slow, is there any way to speed that up.
Maybe with a software update?
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Post by geebo on Oct 13, 2023 18:57:47 GMT -5
I'm not sure I understand the problem. If you rip the two channel track from a Blu-Ray as FLAC it would play from your computer like any other CD rip. Obviously a multi-channel rip can't be played through the XDA-3 but is easy via coax, Toslink or HDMI from the computer. So far, I haven't been able to rip any tracks from Blu-ray to the computer. Just CDs and the CD layer on hybrid SACDs. My Blu-ray reader/writer, a new 2023 Pioneer with USB3, doesn't allow it. Perhaps I'm missing some settings. JRiver defaulted to ripping CDs as FLAC, but I changed the default to WAV. Are you saying I can send multi-channel audio from the computer over Toslink or coax? To the RMC? I have a spare HDMI connector on the computer video card, and spare Toslink and coax on the back panel of the computer. You would need a program like DVD Audio Extractor (DVDAE). It can rip audio tracks from Blu-Ray and DVD using a Blu Ray writer connected to the computer. They have a 30 day free trial. www.dvdae.com/I routinely play ripped multichannel FLACs with my RMC via HDMI. You play them just like any other music file from your computer. I don't use a computer for playback so I can't give specifics but if you can play CD files (MP3, FLAC, etc) then you should be able to play multichannel as well. |
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Post by Boaty McBoatface on Oct 16, 2023 16:24:39 GMT -5
Just curious, did you change your TV audio settings to output PCM? That could be the resolution you seek. If you leave it on Auto it could be putting out Bitstream which I believe this unit cannot handle. Try it and let us know if it works for you. Yes, I tried everything, including new cables. I get good sound when it syncs, it just loses syncs every few seconds and the sound cuts out, I went back to my MC-1, testing all the same settings, and there were no issues at all. I even tried HDMI arc on a Bluesound Node, again no issues. So, I don't know. As a whole the unit is nice. |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Oct 17, 2023 9:37:06 GMT -5
Exactly... Red Book audio, which includes CDs and the CD layer on SACDs, isn't copy protected. DVDs, Blu-Rays, and 4k Blu-Rays have progressively "better" copy protection... which is intended to prevent them from being copied. Therefore you need programs specifically designed to bypass their copy protection. I would also offer a word of warning... Nowadays there are MANY programs that can do this... However not all of them actually make a true lossless copy of the original content... (You will find that many of the cheaper ones may even only offer lossy options like MP3.) I haven't actually done this in quite some time... and I'm pretty sure that DVDAE is the one that I used the last time I did it... (Just don't assume that "ripping programs are all the same".) And, yes, you can play multi-channel files via HDMI on our processors... from something like a computer or a player like an Oppo... But NOT via USB... because the USB audio interface itself is limited to two-channel... (Technically you can play "DTS encoded WAV files" via USB... and those should work... but those are quite limited and nobody I know uses them any more.) But, no, the XDA-3 is strictly a two-channel device. So far, I haven't been able to rip any tracks from Blu-ray to the computer. Just CDs and the CD layer on hybrid SACDs. My Blu-ray reader/writer, a new 2023 Pioneer with USB3, doesn't allow it. Perhaps I'm missing some settings. JRiver defaulted to ripping CDs as FLAC, but I changed the default to WAV. Are you saying I can send multi-channel audio from the computer over Toslink or coax? To the RMC? I have a spare HDMI connector on the computer video card, and spare Toslink and coax on the back panel of the computer. You would need a program like DVD Audio Extractor (DVDAE). It can rip audio tracks from Blu-Ray and DVD using a Blu Ray writer connected to the computer. They have a 30 day free trial. www.dvdae.com/I routinely play ripped multichannel FLACs with my RMC via HDMI. You play them just like any other music file from your computer. I don't use a computer for playback so I can't give specifics but if you can play CD files (MP3, FLAC, etc) then you should be able to play multichannel as well. |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 17, 2023 10:56:35 GMT -5
Exactly... Red Book audio, which includes CDs and the CD layer on SACDs, isn't copy protected. DVDs, Blu-Rays, and 4k Blu-Rays have progressively "better" copy protection... which is intended to prevent them from being copied. Therefore you need programs specifically designed to bypass their copy protection. I would also offer a word of warning... Nowadays there are MANY programs that can do this... However not all of them actually make a true lossless copy of the original content... (You will find that many of the cheaper ones may even only offer lossy options like MP3.) I haven't actually done this in quite some time... and I'm pretty sure that DVDAE is the one that I used the last time I did it... (Just don't assume that "ripping programs are all the same".) And, yes, you can play multi-channel files via HDMI on our processors... from something like a computer or a player like an Oppo... But NOT via USB... because the USB audio interface itself is limited to two-channel... (Technically you can play "DTS encoded WAV files" via USB... and those should work... but those are quite limited and nobody I know uses them any more.) But, no, the XDA-3 is strictly a two-channel device. You would need a program like DVD Audio Extractor (DVDAE). It can rip audio tracks from Blu-Ray and DVD using a Blu Ray writer connected to the computer. They have a 30 day free trial. www.dvdae.com/I routinely play ripped multichannel FLACs with my RMC via HDMI. You play them just like any other music file from your computer. I don't use a computer for playback so I can't give specifics but if you can play CD files (MP3, FLAC, etc) then you should be able to play multichannel as well. Thanks for the additional information. Much appreciated. Does DVDAE make a lossless copy? How about an exact copy? I say this with an understanding that the word ‘lossless’ is used in a loose manner. We really ought to differentiate between the word ‘lossless’ and ‘exact copy’. FLACs, which are ‘lossless’, can be made with various levels of compression. FLAC looks like variable Hi-rez MP3s to me. As I study more about playing files instead of physical media, my opinions and conclusions are changing. I see the value in a stand-alone media player; one that can handle streams from various local and remote sources. I see a media player as a dedicated computer/DAC with software and storage, with the DAC part being optional. The XDA-3 is a stereo DAC. The RMC is a multi-channel DAC. A media player needs no more than the appropriate Digital Out connections. Feel free to correct any misconceptions I have here. Perhaps a future Emotiva product could be a Media Player… Why are “multi-channel files via HDMI on our processors...” limited to "a player like an Oppo...”? I have too many individual questions here. Please expound on your comment. I have an Oppo. ~~~ Yesterday, I played the new DSOTM 50th Anniversary Blu-ray in ATMOS. Quite a lot of fun, since I just finished constructing and installing all the bi-amped base layer channels for HT. The 7 base channels are all the same drivers and crossovers. Voicing is exactly the same. What a treat to hear with several recordings I've played back after the install. The comments in the Setup menu for the DSOTM Blu-ray disc are interesting and revealing. The comments speak to compromises that need to be made when playing 5.1 music on a 7.1 system. The Audio Processor industry needs to make some improvements in how to handle different formats, and where to send the 5.1 surround channels in a 7.1 system. The comments also note that LCR need to be at the same physical distance from MLP for proper phasing. I agree. DSOTM uses a lot of phasing effects. I have a 4” MLP distance difference between LR and C. It’s the best compromise I can do at the moment. |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 18, 2023 8:07:11 GMT -5
Exactly... Red Book audio, which includes CDs and the CD layer on SACDs, isn't copy protected. DVDs, Blu-Rays, and 4k Blu-Rays have progressively "better" copy protection... which is intended to prevent them from being copied. Therefore you need programs specifically designed to bypass their copy protection. I would also offer a word of warning... Nowadays there are MANY programs that can do this... However not all of them actually make a true lossless copy of the original content... (You will find that many of the cheaper ones may even only offer lossy options like MP3.) I haven't actually done this in quite some time... and I'm pretty sure that DVDAE is the one that I used the last time I did it... (Just don't assume that "ripping programs are all the same".) And, yes, you can play multi-channel files via HDMI on our processors... from something like a computer or a player like an Oppo... But NOT via USB... because the USB audio interface itself is limited to two-channel... (Technically you can play "DTS encoded WAV files" via USB... and those should work... but those are quite limited and nobody I know uses them any more.) But, no, the XDA-3 is strictly a two-channel device. You would need a program like DVD Audio Extractor (DVDAE). It can rip audio tracks from Blu-Ray and DVD using a Blu Ray writer connected to the computer. They have a 30 day free trial. www.dvdae.com/I routinely play ripped multichannel FLACs with my RMC via HDMI. You play them just like any other music file from your computer. I don't use a computer for playback so I can't give specifics but if you can play CD files (MP3, FLAC, etc) then you should be able to play multichannel as well. Does the XDA-3 have jitter reduction/elimination on all of its digital inputs? Not just the USB input? Post reference: emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1076104/thread |
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Post by geebo on Oct 18, 2023 9:22:38 GMT -5
Exactly... Red Book audio, which includes CDs and the CD layer on SACDs, isn't copy protected. DVDs, Blu-Rays, and 4k Blu-Rays have progressively "better" copy protection... which is intended to prevent them from being copied. Therefore you need programs specifically designed to bypass their copy protection. I would also offer a word of warning... Nowadays there are MANY programs that can do this... However not all of them actually make a true lossless copy of the original content... (You will find that many of the cheaper ones may even only offer lossy options like MP3.) I haven't actually done this in quite some time... and I'm pretty sure that DVDAE is the one that I used the last time I did it... (Just don't assume that "ripping programs are all the same".) And, yes, you can play multi-channel files via HDMI on our processors... from something like a computer or a player like an Oppo... But NOT via USB... because the USB audio interface itself is limited to two-channel... (Technically you can play "DTS encoded WAV files" via USB... and those should work... but those are quite limited and nobody I know uses them any more.) But, no, the XDA-3 is strictly a two-channel device. Thanks for the additional information. Much appreciated. Does DVDAE make a lossless copy? How about an exact copy? I say this with an understanding that the word ‘lossless’ is used in a loose manner. We really ought to differentiate between the word ‘lossless’ and ‘exact copy’. FLACs, which are ‘lossless’, can be made with various levels of compression. FLAC looks like variable Hi-rez MP3s to me. As I study more about playing files instead of physical media, my opinions and conclusions are changing. I see the value in a stand-alone media player; one that can handle streams from various local and remote sources. I see a media player as a dedicated computer/DAC with software and storage, with the DAC part being optional. The XDA-3 is a stereo DAC. The RMC is a multi-channel DAC. A media player needs no more than the appropriate Digital Out connections. Feel free to correct any misconceptions I have here. Perhaps a future Emotiva product could be a Media Player… Why are “multi-channel files via HDMI on our processors...” limited to "a player like an Oppo...”? I have too many individual questions here. Please expound on your comment. I have an Oppo. ~~~ Yesterday, I played the new DSOTM 50th Anniversary Blu-ray in ATMOS. Quite a lot of fun, since I just finished constructing and installing all the bi-amped base layer channels for HT. The 7 base channels are all the same drivers and crossovers. Voicing is exactly the same. What a treat to hear with several recordings I've played back after the install. The comments in the Setup menu for the DSOTM Blu-ray disc are interesting and revealing. The comments speak to compromises that need to be made when playing 5.1 music on a 7.1 system. The Audio Processor industry needs to make some improvements in how to handle different formats, and where to send the 5.1 surround channels in a 7.1 system. The comments also note that LCR need to be at the same physical distance from MLP for proper phasing. I agree. DSOTM uses a lot of phasing effects. I have a 4” MLP distance difference between LR and C. It’s the best compromise I can do at the moment. If you use Dirac it takes care of phasing for you. No need to fret over small distance differences to speakers from the MLP. Your Oppo (which model) should have a USB port on the back that will accept a hard drive or thumbdrive that you can fill with music files and play with the Oppo. And yes, it can play all kinds of files including DSD and FLAC multi-channel. I have an 8tb drive filled with ripped music concert Blu-Rays and music files that I can play back with the rudimentary interface of the Oppo 203. I recently started using a Zidoo that has a much better cataloging system and interface. And it also plays multi-channel files through HDMI. Both can play MKV rips of Blu-Rays while the Zidoo can also play ISO's of ripped disks. FLAC is not like a hi-res MP3. MP3 is lossy and will never play back with all the info of the corresponding CD. There is information missing because it was thrown out during the conversion never to be retrieved again. FLAC's are lossless and play the same as if the CD was playing because the compressed file is expanded to it's original state on the fly during playback. Think of a Zip file. Zip files are compressed versions of a file but when unzipped they are a bit for bit perfect copy of the file before zipping. So FLAC saves space while providing a bit by bit perfect copy of the original while playing back. And if you don't like that then you can rip to uncompressed WAV with DVDAE and just not be able to put as many files on your storage media and with no advantage over FLAC for the end user. |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 18, 2023 11:02:42 GMT -5
Thanks for the additional information. Much appreciated. Does DVDAE make a lossless copy? How about an exact copy? I say this with an understanding that the word ‘lossless’ is used in a loose manner. We really ought to differentiate between the word ‘lossless’ and ‘exact copy’. FLACs, which are ‘lossless’, can be made with various levels of compression. FLAC looks like variable Hi-rez MP3s to me. As I study more about playing files instead of physical media, my opinions and conclusions are changing. I see the value in a stand-alone media player; one that can handle streams from various local and remote sources. I see a media player as a dedicated computer/DAC with software and storage, with the DAC part being optional. The XDA-3 is a stereo DAC. The RMC is a multi-channel DAC. A media player needs no more than the appropriate Digital Out connections. Feel free to correct any misconceptions I have here. Perhaps a future Emotiva product could be a Media Player… Why are “multi-channel files via HDMI on our processors...” limited to "a player like an Oppo...”? I have too many individual questions here. Please expound on your comment. I have an Oppo. ~~~ Yesterday, I played the new DSOTM 50th Anniversary Blu-ray in ATMOS. Quite a lot of fun, since I just finished constructing and installing all the bi-amped base layer channels for HT. The 7 base channels are all the same drivers and crossovers. Voicing is exactly the same. What a treat to hear with several recordings I've played back after the install. The comments in the Setup menu for the DSOTM Blu-ray disc are interesting and revealing. The comments speak to compromises that need to be made when playing 5.1 music on a 7.1 system. The Audio Processor industry needs to make some improvements in how to handle different formats, and where to send the 5.1 surround channels in a 7.1 system. The comments also note that LCR need to be at the same physical distance from MLP for proper phasing. I agree. DSOTM uses a lot of phasing effects. I have a 4” MLP distance difference between LR and C. It’s the best compromise I can do at the moment. If you use Dirac it takes care of phasing for you. No need to fret over small distance differences to speakers from the MLP. Your Oppo (which model) should have a USB port on the back that will accept a hard drive or thumbdrive that you can fill with music files and play with the Oppo. And yes, it can play all kinds of files including DSD and FLAC multi-channel. I have an 8tb drive filled with ripped music concert Blu-Rays and music files that I can play back with the rudimentary interface of the Oppo 203. I recently started using a Zidoo that has a much better cataloging system and interface. And it also plays multi-channel files through HDMI. Both can play MKV rips of Blu-Rays while the Zidoo can also play ISO's of ripped disks. FLAC is not like a hi-res MP3. MP3 is lossy and will never play back with all the info of the corresponding CD. There is information missing because it was thrown out during the conversion never to be retrieved again. FLAC's are lossless and play the same as if the CD was playing because the compressed file is expanded to it's original state on the fly during playback. Think of a Zip file. Zip files are compressed versions of a file but when unzipped they are a bit for bit perfect copy of the file before zipping. So FLAC saves space while providing a bit by bit perfect copy of the original while playing back. And if you don't like that then you can rip to uncompressed WAV with DVDAE and just not be able to put as many files on your storage media and with no advantage over FLAC for the end user. Dirac is opinionated room correction; Nothing more. It will not take care of the mis-reproduction of phasing effects in a recording. Proper delay, with or without Dirac, will make an apparent equality of distance, but it is not the same as making speakers equidistant from MLP. Use a little trigonometry to figure this out – even Dirac does this by using multiple measurements in a spread of locations so as to not mangle things more than help them. We all deal with the compromise of different speaker physical distance in normal HT. It is what it is. Recording phase effects can be produced with a minimum of any channel pair, reproduced with a respective equal speaker pair, and have been done with just the L&R channels for decades. These produced and recorded phase effects need no more than equal speaker pairs for good reproduction. There are several possible speaker pair permutations in a multi-channel system. Equal speakers in all the base channels covers the ‘bases’, require the Least amount of manipulation from any kind of room correction, and respond well to simple and minimal PEQ. I don’t fret over differences in distance. I work with them. My 4 surround channels are within 1” of same physical distance to MLP. Heights are 2” farther away than the surrounds, The fronts need a little more work, but, L&R are the same. Dirac is not necessary to correct phase between speakers. Dirac will not make different speakers produce the same phase results. Using the same speakers produces the same phase results – THIS is real ‘voicing’. Dirac is opinionated room correction. ~~~ My WAV ripped music collection cost about 2 cents more per ripped recording than using FLAC. It’s about $20 more at current drive costs for the whole collection. Drive space continues to drop in price. WAV requires less processing to rip, and less processing to play. I’ll continue to catch a WAV. I won’t give you any flak about using FLAC. There is no advantage to FLAC other than what is contrived by the industry and suits the industry. ~~~ I can play back files on any of the Blu-ray players I own. Perhaps the Oppo has an interface that is a bit less rudimentary. The better library systems of stand-alone media players seem to be the ticket. |
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Post by geebo on Oct 18, 2023 11:52:18 GMT -5
If you use Dirac it takes care of phasing for you. No need to fret over small distance differences to speakers from the MLP. Your Oppo (which model) should have a USB port on the back that will accept a hard drive or thumbdrive that you can fill with music files and play with the Oppo. And yes, it can play all kinds of files including DSD and FLAC multi-channel. I have an 8tb drive filled with ripped music concert Blu-Rays and music files that I can play back with the rudimentary interface of the Oppo 203. I recently started using a Zidoo that has a much better cataloging system and interface. And it also plays multi-channel files through HDMI. Both can play MKV rips of Blu-Rays while the Zidoo can also play ISO's of ripped disks. FLAC is not like a hi-res MP3. MP3 is lossy and will never play back with all the info of the corresponding CD. There is information missing because it was thrown out during the conversion never to be retrieved again. FLAC's are lossless and play the same as if the CD was playing because the compressed file is expanded to it's original state on the fly during playback. Think of a Zip file. Zip files are compressed versions of a file but when unzipped they are a bit for bit perfect copy of the file before zipping. So FLAC saves space while providing a bit by bit perfect copy of the original while playing back. And if you don't like that then you can rip to uncompressed WAV with DVDAE and just not be able to put as many files on your storage media and with no advantage over FLAC for the end user. Dirac is opinionated room correction; Nothing more. It will not take care of the mis-reproduction of phasing effects in a recording. Proper delay, with or without Dirac, will make an apparent equality of distance, but it is not the same as making speakers equidistant from MLP. Use a little trigonometry to figure this out – even Dirac does this by using multiple measurements in a spread of locations so as to not mangle things more than help them. We all deal with the compromise of different speaker physical distance in normal HT. It is what it is. Recording phase effects can be produced with a minimum of any channel pair, reproduced with a respective equal speaker pair, and have been done with just the L&R channels for decades. These produced and recorded phase effects need no more than equal speaker pairs for good reproduction. There are several possible speaker pair permutations in a multi-channel system. Equal speakers in all the base channels covers the ‘bases’, require the Least amount of manipulation from any kind of room correction, and respond well to simple and minimal PEQ. I don’t fret over differences in distance. I work with them. My 4 surround channels are within 1” of same physical distance to MLP. Heights are 2” farther away than the surrounds, The fronts need a little more work, but, L&R are the same. Dirac is not necessary to correct phase between speakers. Dirac will not make different speakers produce the same phase results. Using the same speakers produces the same phase results – THIS is real ‘voicing’. Dirac is opinionated room correction. ~~~ My WAV ripped music collection cost about 2 cents more per ripped recording than using FLAC. It’s about $20 more at current drive costs for the whole collection. Drive space continues to drop in price. WAV requires less processing to rip, and less processing to play. I’ll continue to catch a WAV. I won’t give you any flak about using FLAC. There is no advantage to FLAC other than what is contrived and suits the industry. ~~~ I can play back files on any of the Blu-ray players I own. Perhaps the Oppo has an interface that is a bit less rudimentary. The better library systems of stand-alone media players seem to be the ticket. Delaying a signal is the same as moving a speaker further back. Moving speakers will not take care of the mis-reproduction of phasing effects in a recording. either. I didn't say Dirac was necessary to correct phase between speakers. I said if you use Dirac it takes care of it. There are other ways to accomplish that and there are pros and cons to all of them. If you don't like Dirac simply don't use it. I happen to like it a lot so I do. I only mentioned that IF you use it, not that you SHOULD use it. Use whatever rip format you wish. It's nice to have choices but FLAC is not like a hi-res MP3. All MP3's throw away information that is forever lost while FLAC preserves all of it. And modern processors and DACS have more than enough horsepower to handle the FLAC processing so that's just not really a factor. Whether you can hear a difference between FLAC, WAV or MP3 is up to the listener. Use which ever you prefer. And DVDAE can indeed rip to WAV as well as other formats. The Oppo can play DSD files (two channel or multi channel) which most other Blu-Ray players cannot. It can also play ripped Blu Rays stored in the BDMV file structure offering full menu support of the original disk which again most Blu Ray players cannot. And the Oppo can play MKV, too. The Oppo has a very usable interface that's much like the file structure on a computer and I've been using it for years. My Panasonic 820 cannot match the versatility of the Oppo but I prefer the Panasonic when playing movies on a disk especially if they're HDR10 or DV. But lately I've been using the Zidoo for all my ripped music and movie playback. |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 18, 2023 12:32:26 GMT -5
Dirac is opinionated room correction; Nothing more. It will not take care of the mis-reproduction of phasing effects in a recording. Proper delay, with or without Dirac, will make an apparent equality of distance, but it is not the same as making speakers equidistant from MLP. Use a little trigonometry to figure this out – even Dirac does this by using multiple measurements in a spread of locations so as to not mangle things more than help them. We all deal with the compromise of different speaker physical distance in normal HT. It is what it is. Recording phase effects can be produced with a minimum of any channel pair, reproduced with a respective equal speaker pair, and have been done with just the L&R channels for decades. These produced and recorded phase effects need no more than equal speaker pairs for good reproduction. There are several possible speaker pair permutations in a multi-channel system. Equal speakers in all the base channels covers the ‘bases’, require the Least amount of manipulation from any kind of room correction, and respond well to simple and minimal PEQ. I don’t fret over differences in distance. I work with them. My 4 surround channels are within 1” of same physical distance to MLP. Heights are 2” farther away than the surrounds, The fronts need a little more work, but, L&R are the same. Dirac is not necessary to correct phase between speakers. Dirac will not make different speakers produce the same phase results. Using the same speakers produces the same phase results – THIS is real ‘voicing’. Dirac is opinionated room correction. ~~~ My WAV ripped music collection cost about 2 cents more per ripped recording than using FLAC. It’s about $20 more at current drive costs for the whole collection. Drive space continues to drop in price. WAV requires less processing to rip, and less processing to play. I’ll continue to catch a WAV. I won’t give you any flak about using FLAC. There is no advantage to FLAC other than what is contrived and suits the industry. ~~~ I can play back files on any of the Blu-ray players I own. Perhaps the Oppo has an interface that is a bit less rudimentary. The better library systems of stand-alone media players seem to be the ticket. Delaying a signal is the same as moving a speaker further back. Moving speakers will not take care of the mis-reproduction of phasing effects in a recording. either. I didn't say Dirac was necessary to correct phase between speakers. I said if you use Dirac it takes care of it. There are other ways to accomplish that and there are pros and cons to all of them. If you don't like Dirac simply don't use it. I happen to like it a lot so I do. I only mentioned that IF you use it, not that you SHOULD use it. Use whatever rip format you wish. It's nice to have choices but FLAC is not like a hi-res MP3. All MP3's throw away information that is forever lost while FLAC preserves all of it. And modern processors and DACS have more than enough horsepower to handle the FLAC processing so that's just not really a factor. Whether you can hear a difference between FLAC, WAV or MP3 is up to the listener. Use which ever you prefer. And DVDAE can indeed rip to WAV as well as other formats. The Oppo can play DSD files (two channel or multi channel) which most other Blu-Ray players cannot. It can also play ripped Blu Rays stored in the BDMV file structure offering full menu support of the original disk which again most Blu Ray players cannot. And the Oppo can play MKV, too. The Oppo has a very usable interface that's much like the file structure on a computer and I've been using it for years. My Panasonic 820 cannot match the versatility of the Oppo but I prefer the Panasonic when playing movies on a disk especially if they're HDR10 or DV. But lately I've been using the Zidoo for all my ripped music and movie playback. Delaying a signal is NOT the same as moving a speaker. Try putting your center channel speaker 2’ in front of you, then putting your L&R 10’ from you. Now set the delays. See if that works for you. This is a gross example that might help you. Listen for the differences in sound. Equidistant does Not equal same delay. Perhaps you could argue with the producers of DSOTM 50th Anniversary. I’ll watch the argument. FLAC vs WAV – It is nice to have choices. No flak from me. Obviously, virtually any modern computer has enough horsepower to handle both. Oppo – I forgot about those pesky DSD files. I have both a oppo 205 and a Panasonic 820. Both play HDR10. The displayed video from either is a little different on my Samsung mini-LED TV. I don’t care. Neither is better. If you were looking for a Media Player today, what would you consider? I went to the Zidoo site. A lot of stuff seems to be ‘unavailable’. |
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Post by geebo on Oct 18, 2023 12:57:37 GMT -5
Delaying a signal is the same as moving a speaker further back. Moving speakers will not take care of the mis-reproduction of phasing effects in a recording. either. I didn't say Dirac was necessary to correct phase between speakers. I said if you use Dirac it takes care of it. There are other ways to accomplish that and there are pros and cons to all of them. If you don't like Dirac simply don't use it. I happen to like it a lot so I do. I only mentioned that IF you use it, not that you SHOULD use it. Use whatever rip format you wish. It's nice to have choices but FLAC is not like a hi-res MP3. All MP3's throw away information that is forever lost while FLAC preserves all of it. And modern processors and DACS have more than enough horsepower to handle the FLAC processing so that's just not really a factor. Whether you can hear a difference between FLAC, WAV or MP3 is up to the listener. Use which ever you prefer. And DVDAE can indeed rip to WAV as well as other formats. The Oppo can play DSD files (two channel or multi channel) which most other Blu-Ray players cannot. It can also play ripped Blu Rays stored in the BDMV file structure offering full menu support of the original disk which again most Blu Ray players cannot. And the Oppo can play MKV, too. The Oppo has a very usable interface that's much like the file structure on a computer and I've been using it for years. My Panasonic 820 cannot match the versatility of the Oppo but I prefer the Panasonic when playing movies on a disk especially if they're HDR10 or DV. But lately I've been using the Zidoo for all my ripped music and movie playback. Delaying a signal is NOT the same as moving a speaker. Try putting your center channel speaker 2’ in front of you, then putting your L&R 10’ from you. Now set the delays. See if that works for you. This is a gross example that might help you. Listen for the differences in sound. Equidistant does Not equal same delay. Perhaps you could argue with the producers of DSOTM 50th Anniversary. I’ll watch the argument. FLAC vs WAV – It is nice to have choices. No flak from me. Obviously, virtually any modern computer has enough horsepower to handle both. Oppo – I forgot about those pesky DSD files. I have both a oppo 205 and a Panasonic 820. Both play HDR10. The displayed video from either is a little different on my Samsung mini-LED TV. I don’t care. Neither is better. If you were looking for a Media Player today, what would you consider? I went to the Zidoo site. A lot of stuff seems to be ‘unavailable’. It depends mostly if you want a Zidoo with an internal hard drive storage bay or not. If you don't need one and you use a NAS or external USB drive the Z9X Pro (availiable now on Amazon and at Futeko.com) will do as good as the higher priced units. The Z20 Pro adds an internal hard drive bay, the Z2000 Pro further adds an internal power supply as opposed to the wall wart and the Z2600 adds to that a USB 2.0 port on the back panel and a second HDMI output if you want to split audio and video for whatever reason. All will play files the same. The interface is the same with the exception of the home screen which you can change to have the home screen of the Z2000/Z2600 if you prefer. I might wait till the new firmware comes out due this month. Some users with lots of movies are having some issues although I am not having any problems other than multi-channel DSD files not playing properly which is a known issue and should be fixed with the new firmware. Both those players can play HDR10 or DV from disk and I prefer the Panny's video at least with DV. According to Speers and Munsil the Oppo doesn't do everything correctly with DV. But the Panny will not play from a folder on a hard drive as the Oppo will. Dune would be another option but I'm not as familiar with them. Right now the Zidoo's are the only ones using the newest Realtek RTD1619BPD. Dune, Zappitti and R_volution use the previous generation RTD1619DR. |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 18, 2023 13:18:12 GMT -5
Delaying a signal is NOT the same as moving a speaker. Try putting your center channel speaker 2’ in front of you, then putting your L&R 10’ from you. Now set the delays. See if that works for you. This is a gross example that might help you. Listen for the differences in sound. Equidistant does Not equal same delay. Perhaps you could argue with the producers of DSOTM 50th Anniversary. I’ll watch the argument. FLAC vs WAV – It is nice to have choices. No flak from me. Obviously, virtually any modern computer has enough horsepower to handle both. Oppo – I forgot about those pesky DSD files. I have both a oppo 205 and a Panasonic 820. Both play HDR10. The displayed video from either is a little different on my Samsung mini-LED TV. I don’t care. Neither is better. If you were looking for a Media Player today, what would you consider? I went to the Zidoo site. A lot of stuff seems to be ‘unavailable’. It depends mostly if you want a Zidoo with an internal hard drive storage bay or not. If you don't need one and you use a NAS or external USB drive the Z9X Pro (availiable now on Amazon and at Futeko.com) will do as good as the higher priced units. The Z20 Pro adds an internal hard drive bay, the Z2000 Pro further adds an internal power supply as opposed to the wall wart and the Z2600 adds to that a USB 2.0 port on the back panel and a second HDMI output if you want to split audio and video for whatever reason. All will play files the same. The interface is the same with the exception of the home screen which you can change to have the home screen of the Z2000/Z2600 if you prefer. I might wait till the new firmware comes out due this month. Some users with lots of movies are having some issues although I am not having any problems other than multi-channel DSD files not playing properly which is a known issue and should be fixed with the new firmware. Both those players can play HDR10 or DV from disk and I prefer the Panny's video at least with DV. According to Speers and Munsil the Oppo doesn't do everything correctly with DV. But the Panny will not play from a folder on a hard drive as the Oppo will. Dune would be another option but I'm not as familiar with them. Right now the Zidoo's are the only ones using the newest Realtek RTD1619BPD. Dune, Zappitti and R_volution use the previous generation RTD1619DR. Thanks geebo. Yours is the kind of consumer data and experience I need to read. I won't be purchasing in the next month. I need to gather more data, and have a better understanding, before making a purchase this large. I may have a few more questions before that time comes. Thanks again. Edit: The new Zidoo line is less expensive than I thought it would be. |
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Post by rcheliguy on Nov 5, 2023 7:25:10 GMT -5
I've been using an OPPO 105D as a DAC/preamp to my XPA2 Gen2 amplifier for over 8 years, despite many people telling me that I should use a "real" preamp for it.
I saw the new Emotiva XDA-3 DAC/preamp recently and thought, OK, let's try a matching Emotiva preamp. It arrived yesterday.
By comparison the XDA-3 has been a serious let down. I was hoping it would at least sound as good as what I had that was supposed to be a compromise.
Not sure why they even bothered to put a headphone jack on the thing. It can barely push any of my headphones to any volume at all. I was running at 0dB with 60ohm headphones. The Headphone section seems like a huge step down from the Oppo 105D.
The volume I'm getting out of my Volumio USB connection is crap whether I'm running 16x44.1k or 24x196k. I'm not used to running my amp at near 0db to hear anything, and yes I have Volumio sending the volume out at 100%
I get decent volume out of the optical connection from my Roku streaming Spotify, but that isn't where my high bitrate files are stored.
The volume adjustment is god awful slow and really annoying me taking away from enjoying music when changing between tracks recorded at different levels.
I've been running my XPA2 gen2 very happily for many years, and I assumed that the XDA-3 would be a good match for it.
Is there something stupid that I missed?
I was running XLR connectors from my OPPO 105D to my XPA2 gen 2 and I assumed I could do the same with this. In fact the OPPO 105D while providing an XLR connection is not a truly balanced output, while this is.
Any suggestions before I box it back up? This is absolutely not cutting it for me.
FYI, I have contacted customer support.
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Post by rcheliguy on Nov 5, 2023 9:10:05 GMT -5
Thanks geebo. Yours is the kind of consumer data and experience I need to read. I won't be purchasing in the next month. I need to gather more data, and have a better understanding, before making a purchase this large. I may have a few more questions before that time comes. Thanks again. Edit: The new Zidoo line is less expensive than I thought it would be. I was pretty happy with my experience with JRiver for streaming music on a PC. I moved to a RasperryPi solution with Volumio a while back using the same library of high resolution and FLAC files. I'm considering setting up JRiver on the same raspberry pi system. I have always used async USB to date. I am curious if these others are using USB connections or something different. So far my experience with USB on the XDA-3 has not been very good. |
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 5, 2023 9:53:59 GMT -5
Thanks geebo. Yours is the kind of consumer data and experience I need to read. I won't be purchasing in the next month. I need to gather more data, and have a better understanding, before making a purchase this large. I may have a few more questions before that time comes. Thanks again. Edit: The new Zidoo line is less expensive than I thought it would be. I was pretty happy with my experience with JRiver for streaming music on a PC. I moved to a RasperryPi solution with Volumio a while back using the same library of high resolution and FLAC files. I'm considering setting up JRiver on the same raspberry pi system. I have always used async USB to date. I am curious if these others are using USB connections or something different. So far my experience with USB on the XDA-3 has not been very good. I have not used the tools you use and don't know much about them. I like JRiver. I use it as a player with an ASIO driver, and the USB output from my computer to the XDA-3. I like the XDA-3 but haven't sonically compared it to anything else as a DAC. The headphone output is not as good as the Benchmark HPA4, with my Sony MDR-7509 low impedance headphones, but this is not a fair comparison. The small differences in headphone quality allow the XDA-3 headphone output to meet most people's needs - IMO. I like the Benchmark products and considered the DAC3 since I use other Benchmark products. The DAC3 is dated (and much more expensive), and the XDA-3 came along at the right price, at the right time. The XDA-3 sounds good to me for my use - I output to a set of Focal active nearfield monitors. I don't see a problem running volume at 0dB. IMO, 0dB should be the volume at which a 0dBfs tone produces a reference voltage at maximum S/N. Then, make the input clipping level of the amplifier at or a little below the reference DAC/preamp/processor output level chain. Any headroom in the DAC/preamp/processor volume control would be consumed with source material that is recorded at low levels. This kind of gain structuring would insure maximum system S/N. |
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Post by rcheliguy on Nov 5, 2023 10:02:56 GMT -5
But do you see a problem when the Optical Input audio is many times louder than the USB input ?
BTW I only stopped at 0 because I couldn't imagine going past that point. I still wanted it to be much louder than it was.
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 5, 2023 10:07:55 GMT -5
But do you see a problem when the Optical Input audio is many times louder than the USB input ? BTW I only stopped at 0 because I couldn't imagine going past that point. I still wanted it to be much louder than it was. I do see this as a problem. I have tried all the digital inputs on the XDA-3, from the various sources I have, and there is little difference between them in the XDA-3 output volume. I can't speak to your setup. It looks like you need to review your setup. Once you clip your amplifier, it doesn't matter how much more gain you have. What you want is clean gain, clean volume control when needed, and high S/N. Having too much gain may negatively affect S/N. OdB on your volume control should be a reference point of 0dB additional gain; Not a limit. |
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Post by jasonf on Nov 6, 2023 22:26:45 GMT -5
Apologies if this has already been asked, I didn't find it in search.
Is anyone running the XDA-3 with home theater passthrough with an RMC/XMC processor?
If so, are you finding any benefit in running the dedicated DAC? How about do you go about wiring that up with HDMI sources to switch between the processors easily? Or are you just using USB input for the DAC?
Thanks!
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