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Post by ttocs on Jun 7, 2023 23:45:29 GMT -5
Life’s Good!
I didn't know what I was missing, at least, not totally.
Timeline: 2007 Panasonic 43" plasma, 2012 Panasonic 55" plasma, 2014 Panasonic 65" plasma, 2017 Epson projector, 2019 Sony 85" LED, 2023 LG G3 77" WOLED.
The 85" Sony 950G was very enjoyable, but not as great as the Panasonic plasmas I had except for size and brightness. The Sony also has one "feature" that was a double edged sword, which is X-Wide Angle technology, which is kinda like a fresnel lens. X-Wide and the top processor at the time were tied together in the 85" model, whereas, if I had gotten the next model down it would not have the X-Wide or the top processor but the picture looked better. I wanted the faster processor because it made a difference in fast moving objects, sports, but I didn’t like X-Wide. So I compromised, suffered with X-Wide, but got much better imagery for fast moving sports with the better processor. The X-Wide also made the image seem less clear, which I wasn’t as aware of till today when I witnessed an extremely clear picture with the G3.
With the LG G3 I'm compromising again, but just with size, going from 85" to 77". But this compromise has a solution in that the mount I bought with the Sony is a full motion mount that extends from the wall up to a couple feet. All I need is to pull the G3 from the wall about one foot closer than the Sony to get the same field of view.
Due to the mounting differences, smaller mounting pattern on the G3 and where the mounting holes are located, the bottom of the G3 is a bit more than 4" higher, so now it feels like I'm looking up more than I really am. It's a big effort to dismount the tv and move the mount down, so I'll just leave it, . . . . for now.
The picture? WOW!
I didn't realize how much blooming there was with the Sony. I knew how much blooming there was when closed captions were placed over dark backgrounds, but the TiVo menus now show up as having black background vs the dark gray I thought it was. It's more like my old plasmas. The blooming on the Sony was degrading picture quality more than I ever thought it would.
Initial thought on motion is that it looks very good. Not quite like plasma, but not far off from it. I’d say plasma has a more fluid picture, but the G3, while a tiny bit of judder can be seen in camera pans, is doing a very good job and is better than the Sony 950G.
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Post by ttocs on Jun 7, 2023 23:45:39 GMT -5
I now have some understanding of some of the issues folks have had in one way or another, like with High Bandwidth, which is a setting that doesn’t “look” like it would be for high bandwidth, but the ATV4K knows the difference. When I first tried the ATV4K it showed its screen for getting the best signal for Dolby Vision, and the test failed until I found this poorly named setting.
High Bandwidth Setting
The setting is called HDMI Deep Color, and has two options: Off, or 4K. Huh? It’s set to Off by default so I changed it to 4k and bingo!, the ATV4K now sees the panel as being Dolby Vision capable. I guess it’s a design by committee feature.
VRO Fail (Video Remains On)
I never had a problem with HDCP Lockup until I got a Fiber Optic HDMI Cable. This took me a couple days to discover what was really happening, and a couple weeks more to find a “secret” setting in the Sony tv that was the problem and should never have been set the way it was, the setting is Remote RS-232C and was set to: Via HDMI Port instead of Via Serial Port. Changing this mysterious setting to Via Serial Port on my Sony solved the issue of HDCP Lockup when the Sony was turned off for more than 17 minutes.
I’m now getting a related issue with the G3. This new issue is no audio when the tv has been off for some period of time while the processor is in VRO, which creates the need for rebooting the processor using LPS (Lowest Power Standby), (Press and hold the On Button on the remote for 6 seconds which makes the processor enter LPS.) Upon full boot and then entering VRO, the audio via tv speakers returns, life is good again until the tv has been off for a while.
I found a setting that keeps the No Audio In VRO issue from occurring: Always Ready. I don't yet know enough about this setting, like, how much power is used in this mode, and what other aspects of the setting might be unwanted.
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Post by ttocs on Jun 7, 2023 23:52:26 GMT -5
The G3 is every bit as bright, and maybe more, than the Sony 950G.
Today was a very bright day and there was no problem at all viewing the G3 in any of the display modes! Speaking of display modes, Vivid, like every other tv I've tried it on, is absolutely terrible! The anti-glare coating is really well done.
I quickly went through some of the SDR test patterns from the Spears & Munsil disc and changed just a few settings by very little. So, like many reviewers have stated, the G3 is great right out of the box.
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cawgijoe
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"We made too many of the wrong mistakes." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Jun 8, 2023 7:55:40 GMT -5
The G3 is every bit as bright, and maybe more, than the Sony 950G. Today was a very bright day and there was no problem at all viewing the G3 in any of the display modes! Speaking of display modes, Vivid, like every other tv I've tried it on, is absolutely terrible! The anti-glare coating is really well done. I quickly went through some of the SDR test patterns from the Spears & Munsil disc and changed just a few settings by very little. So, like many reviewers have stated, the G3 is great right out of the box. I'm very interested in your review(s), settings, and findings since I plan on getting an OLED end of next year when I move to our retirement home. It will either be a 65" or 77" depending on my cost tolerance. The 65" sets from both Sony and LG seem to be the sweet spot in terms of cost at the moment. I'm hoping that the 77" sets will be priced lower by then. |
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Post by marcl on Jun 8, 2023 8:05:47 GMT -5
I now have some understanding of some of the issues folks have had in one way or another, like with High Bandwidth, which is a setting that doesn’t “look” like it would be for high bandwidth, but the ATV4K knows the difference. When I first tried the ATV4K it showed its screen for getting the best signal for Dolby Vision, and the test failed until I found this poorly named setting. High Bandwidth SettingThe setting is called HDMI Deep Color, and has two options: Off, or 4K. Huh? It’s set to Off by default so I changed it to 4k and bingo!, the ATV4K now sees the panel as being Dolby Vision capable. I guess it’s a design by committee feature. VRO Fail (Video Remains On)I never had a problem with HDCP Lockup until I got a Fiber Optic HDMI Cable. This took me a couple days to discover what was really happening, and a couple weeks more to find a “secret” setting in the Sony tv that was the problem and should never have been set the way it was, the setting is Remote RS-232C and was set to: Via HDMI Port instead of Via Serial Port. Changing this mysterious setting to Via Serial Port on my Sony solved the issue of HDCP Lockup when the Sony was turned off for more than 17 minutes. I’m now getting a related issue with the G3. This new issue is no audio when the tv has been off for some period of time while the processor is in VRO, which creates the need for rebooting the processor using LPS (Lowest Power Standby), (Press and hold the On Button on the remote for 6 seconds which makes the processor enter LPS.) Upon full boot and then entering VRO, the audio via tv speakers returns, life is good again until the tv has been off for a while. I found a setting that keeps the No Audio In VRO issue from occurring: Always Ready. I don't yet know enough about this setting, like, how much power is used in this mode, and what other aspects of the setting might be unwanted. Yeah I accidentally turned off the Deep Color thing and chased my tail a while trying to figure out why the ATV4K wouldn't do Dolby Vision. I assume it has similar motion controls to my CX, and I've played with the S&M HFR test screens to adjust the motion. Amazing how bad 24fps is ... baffles me why people want to watch blurry video. Too bad my Calman for LG license is long since lapsed. But if you decide to go that route I'll lend you my X-Rite colorimeter. |
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cawgijoe
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"We made too many of the wrong mistakes." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Jun 8, 2023 8:17:24 GMT -5
I did a quick Google search on "Always Ready". Apparently it uses some power, saw 34w. Some were concerned that it may shorten panel life and possibly affect burn-in. This is speculation.
So more research is needed...
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Post by ttocs on Jun 8, 2023 8:31:14 GMT -5
The G3 is every bit as bright, and maybe more, than the Sony 950G. Today was a very bright day and there was no problem at all viewing the G3 in any of the display modes! Speaking of display modes, Vivid, like every other tv I've tried it on, is absolutely terrible! The anti-glare coating is really well done. I quickly went through some of the SDR test patterns from the Spears & Munsil disc and changed just a few settings by very little. So, like many reviewers have stated, the G3 is great right out of the box. I'm very interested in your review(s), settings, and findings since I plan on getting an OLED end of next year when I move to our retirement home. It will either be a 65" or 77" depending on my cost tolerance. The 65" sets from both Sony and LG seem to be the sweet spot in terms of cost at the moment. I'm hoping that the 77" sets will be priced lower by then. Sony and LG were my only considerations in this quest. LG won because of Brightness due greatly by use of the "mirrors" etched into the layer above the pixels, a great Heatsink, and the White Pixels which are largely responsible for burn-in reduction as well improving brightness. Since I knew LCSeminole had already done a lot of studying about all these newer panels I sought his advice, and to paraphrase something he said that stuck in my mind, The picture is just THERE! And it is! I was really surprised at how easy it was to view with my room being about as bright as it can get, but the panel was not even at its brightest, and it looked great! |
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Post by ttocs on Jun 8, 2023 8:33:29 GMT -5
Yeah I accidentally turned off the Deep Color thing and chased my tail a while trying to figure out why the ATV4K wouldn't do Dolby Vision. I assume it has similar motion controls to my CX, and I've played with the S&M HFR test screens to adjust the motion. Amazing how bad 24fps is ... baffles me why people want to watch blurry video. Too bad my Calman for LG license is long since lapsed. But if you decide to go that route I'll lend you my X-Rite colorimeter. I have a feeling that the Deep Color setting has caused many to have problems. These companies really need to call things for what they do. High Bandwidth!!! That is a GREAT offer to loan out your colorimeter!! Thank you! I might just take you up on it. |
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Post by ttocs on Jun 8, 2023 8:35:07 GMT -5
I did a quick Google search on "Always Ready". Apparently it uses some power, saw 34w. Some were concerned that it may shorten panel life and possibly affect burn-in. This is speculation. So more research is needed... I don't see how it affects the panel while the panel is just black, but I also read that it could affect its lifespan. But I will say that there's no issue with HDCP Lockup! And the picture comes on just about instantly. There's another setting I'll test next. |
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Post by marcl on Jun 8, 2023 8:57:05 GMT -5
Yeah I accidentally turned off the Deep Color thing and chased my tail a while trying to figure out why the ATV4K wouldn't do Dolby Vision. I assume it has similar motion controls to my CX, and I've played with the S&M HFR test screens to adjust the motion. Amazing how bad 24fps is ... baffles me why people want to watch blurry video. Too bad my Calman for LG license is long since lapsed. But if you decide to go that route I'll lend you my X-Rite colorimeter. I have a feeling that the Deep Color setting has caused many to have problems. These companies really need to call things for what they do. High Bandwidth!!! That is a GREAT offer to loan out your colorimeter!! Thank you! I might just take you up on it. And for those who didn't hear my whole story about the Calman software ..... they SAY they support the Spyder colorimeter (and many others) but the Spyder doesn't work with an OLED, and they don't say that. So after I got the software and could NOT get a neutral calibration (shadows kept coming up red or purple) ... I relented and bought the X-Rite. It worked great, but I only had to use it three times before the Calman license ran out. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Jun 8, 2023 9:55:11 GMT -5
I did a quick Google search on "Always Ready". Apparently it uses some power, saw 34w. Some were concerned that it may shorten panel life and possibly affect burn-in. This is speculation. So more research is needed... I don't see how it affects the panel while the panel is just black, but I also read that it could affect its lifespan. But I will say that there's no issue with HDCP Lockup! And the picture comes on just about instantly. There's another setting I'll test next. How is the sound quality and volume with just the TV speakers on? I did read that "Always Ready" allows you to either have some display "artwork", calendar...etc. or go black. The concern is that since the TV is not truly "off", it may affect life...no idea if this is really true. |
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Post by doc1963 on Jun 8, 2023 10:38:17 GMT -5
I don't see how it affects the panel while the panel is just black, but I also read that it could affect its lifespan. But I will say that there's no issue with HDCP Lockup! And the picture comes on just about instantly. There's another setting I'll test next. How is the sound quality and volume with just the TV speakers on? I did read that "Always Ready" allows you to either have some display "artwork", calendar...etc. or go black. The concern is that since the TV is not truly "off", it may affect life...no idea if this is really true. The “Always Ready” feature in the newer LG TVOS is a rework of same “Quick Start” feature found in their 2020 smart televisions and older. Personally, I always disable this feature because I found the internal apps to be more stable and reliable when they are forced to quit when the display is turned off. I never had a problem using HDMI ARC (and had no issues with HDPC) with this feature disable even though I was using a Ruipro 4K active HDMI cable. Now, my LG CX series OLED and my RMC-1L are both packed away in their respective storage boxes in my basement, so I can’t say the same would hold true using the newer versions of the G3P firmware. On my newer LG C2 55 that I use as my daily driver in my living room, I’ve also disabled “Always Ready” as it does consume more energy for features that I’ll never use. I personally don’t need things like “artwork slideshows” or “instant voice control”. It is a cool feature though... and YMMV. Oh… and unlike some other brands, LG does still build pretty descent sound into their OLED sets...  |
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Post by ttocs on Jun 8, 2023 11:38:39 GMT -5
How is the sound quality and volume with just the TV speakers on? I actually like the sound from the Sony 85" panel better, except that the Sony's volume was low when using VRO for 5.1 audio. But, the LG has LOTS of volume level no matter which audio mode it's getting! So VRO works very well with the G3. There are a number of audio settings which affect the volume level overall. Over the next week or so I'll try to make some sense of all of them and report back. But there's one which is truly awful, and it's an AI audio setting, forget what it's called, but it sounds terrible even though it has very high volume level. For VRO I'm currently using a setting for clear voice, as that's mostly what I need for VRO. If I want good quality audio for other stuff I'll just turn on the whole system as that's what it's for. Just for clarity on this VRO stuff: VRO = Used for old tv series and general tv viewing not needing anything special. On = When I want great sound. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Jun 8, 2023 11:48:15 GMT -5
How is the sound quality and volume with just the TV speakers on? I actually like the sound from the Sony 85" panel better, except that the Sony's volume was low when using VRO for 5.1 audio. But, the LG has LOTS of volume level no matter which audio mode it's getting! So VRO works very well with the G3. There are a number of audio settings which affect the volume level overall. Over the next week or so I'll try to make some sense of all of them and report back. But there's one which is truly awful, and it's an AI audio setting, forget what it's called, but it sounds terrible even though it has very high volume level. For VRO I'm currently using a setting for clear voice, as that's mostly what I need for VRO. If I want good quality audio for other stuff I'll just turn on the whole system as that's what it's for. Just for clarity on this VRO stuff: VRO = Used for old tv series and general tv viewing not needing anything special. On = When I want great sound. Thats the way we used to use VRO before the current low volume issue we have with the later firmware(s). However, we have now become used to having the amp "On" all the time now if and when the fix comes in. What I would like if money is no object, a 42" OLED in the bedroom and a 77" OLED in the main system. The 65" being a compromise. The 42 and 77 would be the ideal. Of course I could just get a good LED for the bedroom and go for the 77" OLED in the main system and call it a day. Still a ways off and I'm hoping prices on the larger sets go down by then. |
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Post by ttocs on Jun 8, 2023 11:49:07 GMT -5
How is the sound quality and volume with just the TV speakers on? I did read that "Always Ready" allows you to either have some display "artwork", calendar...etc. or go black. The concern is that since the TV is not truly "off", it may affect life...no idea if this is really true. The “Always Ready” feature in the newer LG TVOS is a rework of same “Quick Start” feature found in their 2020 smart televisions and older. I never had a problem using HDMI ARC (and had no issues with HDPC) with this feature disable even though I was using a Ruipro 4K active HDMI cable. Now, my LG CX series OLED and my RMC-1L are both packed away in their respective storage boxes in my basement, so I can’t say the same would hold true using the newer versions of the G3P firmware. The first instance of HDCP Lockup I got was when I switched to the Ruipro Fiber Optic HDMI cable. I then found the RS232C setting on the Sony that fixed the problem. Quick Start inhibits the HDCP issue by leaving On the response needed so the TiVo is happy so it doesn't report a fail and make the processor confused which then requires a LPS reboot. The setting on the Sony that changed a fail to success happens to keep constant power going to a USB port, and I suspect also keeps something in the HDMI reporting alive, so this little bit of power is all that was needed to keep the HDCP chain from failing. The main difficulty in testing each setting is the time involved for a fail to occur, which on my Sony was 17 minutes. I haven't yet determined what that time limit is on the G3, nor do I want to, so I'm waiting a half hour minimum for now when I'm at home. |
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Post by doc1963 on Jun 8, 2023 12:44:59 GMT -5
The “Always Ready” feature in the newer LG TVOS is a rework of same “Quick Start” feature found in their 2020 smart televisions and older. I never had a problem using HDMI ARC (and had no issues with HDPC) with this feature disable even though I was using a Ruipro 4K active HDMI cable. Now, my LG CX series OLED and my RMC-1L are both packed away in their respective storage boxes in my basement, so I can’t say the same would hold true using the newer versions of the G3P firmware. The first instance of HDCP Lockup I got was when I switched to the Ruipro Fiber Optic HDMI cable. I then found the RS232C setting on the Sony that fixed the problem. Quick Start inhibits the HDCP issue by leaving On the response needed so the TiVo is happy so it doesn't report a fail and make the processor confused which then requires a LPS reboot. The setting on the Sony that changed a fail to success happens to keep constant power going to a USB port, and I suspect also keeps something in the HDMI reporting alive, so this little bit of power is all that was needed to keep the HDCP chain from failing. The main difficulty in testing each setting is the time involved for a fail to occur, which on my Sony was 17 minutes. I haven't yet determined what that time limit is on the G3, nor do I want to, so I'm waiting a half hour minimum for now when I'm at home. I'd just stick with what is know to work for you until time comes for curiosity to take over... I believe you have the 8K version of the Ruipro cable whereas mine are the older 4K versions. That might make the difference between your experiences and mine. That and maybe the fact that my RMC-1L was still on firmware version 2.5 when it was packed away for my move. No harm in using the "Always Ready" feature, that I'm aware of, as long as you set the screen mode to "off". If you're using the internal apps, you can easily quit them by using the " ..." button on LG's Magic Remote to bring up the actions menu, then go to "quit app". There's also a function in the "OLED Care" settings for memory management. Manually running that function occasionally wouldn't hurt. Once I finally get to the point to where I can work on the basement in my new (old) home, I plan to replace my CX with a newer (and bigger) G series model. Now that LG has gotten over themselves and have reverted back to supporting DTS, I'll very likely migrate to using the internal apps exclusively for content streaming and connect what's left of my source devices directly to the TV. Then, use eARC back to the processor. |
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Post by ttocs on Jun 8, 2023 21:53:36 GMT -5
I believe you have the 8K version of the Ruipro cable whereas mine are the older 4K versions. That might make the difference between your experiences and mine. That and maybe the fact that my RMC-1L was still on firmware version 2.5 when it was packed away for my move. Correct, I've got the 8K version. Firmware has had no effect with the HDCP Lockups I'm speaking of. The Lockups showed up with the FO cable, and is produceable on demand by simply changing a setting on the Sony tv, and has behaved the same way with each firmware version. Very consistent in how it presents. The LG is different due to a lack of service menu settings. LG has chosen to restrict access to these settings on some panel models. I've been able to find some usage sequences to mitigate the lockups, with some being foolproof while at the same time less convenient. After another day or two of trials I'll be able to speak more intelligently about it. I will say this though. I choose to keep the TiVo EDGE on all the time, and this is one reason the HDCP thing is coming up. But the same issue happens in a slightly different manner with the Xfinity box. If the TiVo is in standby then there's no HDCP problem, but then it takes 2-3 minutes to boot up and all six tuners are on the same channel, so this is inconvenient, but I'm not saying I won't go this route to avoid the problem, but I don't yet have enough to work with to decide what the protocol will be. There are other sources of mine that can also have this issue, but one fact remains steadfast, this HDCP issue ONLY happens with the fiber optic cable and NEVER happens with an all copper cable. Last year I searched diligently for how any differences between all copper and FO could make some operational difference, but came up with not enough info out there. . . . you can easily quit them by using the " ..." button on LG's Magic Remote to bring up the actions menu, then go to "quit app". Thanks for sharing this! I haven't made my way around all the remote buttons yet. There's a tutorial in the menu system for getting to know the tv/remote, which I would hope would include the nifty stuff like you point out. There's also a function in the "OLED Care" settings for memory management. Manually running that function occasionally wouldn't hurt. Good to know! Just went to look and saw other Care stuff also. Thanks again Doc! |
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