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Post by Wooferine on Jul 24, 2023 11:55:04 GMT -5
I've been wanting to put together a budget 3.1 ch system for causal music listening and occasional movie watching. I don't need a 16 ch home theatre setup with all its bells and whistles. I just want something simple, straight forward but with good quality. I've done my research on audio components. Emotiva is certainly on my list for its price point and quality.
For the power amps, I have two options:
1) Emotiva BasX A3
2) Emotiva BasX A1 (x3)
For the preamp processor, however, I am having trouble to find one. I will not consider an AVR with preamp output. So, my options are extremely limited to the point of non-existence. Therefore, I would like to make a special request for Emotiva to create a 3.1 ch preamp processor for people in a similar situation like mine. I can't be the only one on the market looking for something like this.
Here is my proposal:
Emotiva BasX PT3 3.1 Channel Preamp Processor with a DAC, Center Speaker Output and Active Subwoofer Output. Tuner is not necessary.
Ideally, it should have a selector on the front panel for various speaker outputs:
1) All Three Speakers
2) Main Left and Right Speakers
3) Center Speaker Only
This proposed unit should work for both 3.1 ch music listening as well as movie watching.
As of now, I can't proceed to purchase the three amps without getting this preamp processor at the same time. My proposed system won't work without it. I am hoping Emotive will consider to produce such a unit so that I will have my 3.1 ch system up and running soon.
Thanks, Emotiva.
Wooferine
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 24, 2023 15:47:06 GMT -5
With such a niche request, you may be waiting a while -- I'd recommend looking for a used XMC-1 -- though no one is likely to have front panel controls for speakers, outside possibly an AVR. As far as amps go, most would want to know what kind of speakers you plan to run, and your music / HT balance, before making a recommendation, without that I'd probably get the A3.
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Post by 405x5 on Jul 25, 2023 6:48:36 GMT -5
I've been wanting to put together a budget 3.1 ch system for causal music listening and occasional movie watching. I don't need a 16 ch home theatre setup with all its bells and whistles. I just want something simple, straight forward but with good quality. I've done my research on audio components. Emotiva is certainly on my list for its price point and quality. For the power amps, I have two options: 1) Emotiva BasX A3 2) Emotiva BasX A1 (x3) For the preamp processor, however, I am having trouble to find one. I will not consider an AVR with preamp output. So, my options are extremely limited to the point of non-existence. Therefore, I would like to make a special request for Emotiva to create a 3.1 ch preamp processor for people in a similar situation like mine. I can't be the only one on the market looking for something like this. Here is my proposal: Emotiva BasX PT3 3.1 Channel Preamp Processor with a DAC, Center Speaker Output and Active Subwoofer Output. Tuner is not necessary. Ideally, it should have a selector on the front panel for various speaker outputs: 1) All Three Speakers 2) Main Left and Right Speakers 3) Center Speaker Only This proposed unit should work for both 3.1 ch music listening as well as movie watching. As of now, I can't proceed to purchase the three amps without getting this preamp processor at the same time. My proposed system won't work without it. I am hoping Emotive will consider to produce such a unit so that I will have my 3.1 ch system up and running soon. Thanks, Emotiva. Wooferine I hear you, sir, and I’m in the same boat you’re in. Simple no longer exists for guys like us. The industry has dictated that a high-end processor must have 10,000 channels. Oh well… I’ve got an XMC1 which is my core control. Since I purchased it in 2014 it has become something to me that is worth it’s weight in gold for its high-end quality yet simplicity. In the advent of Dolby, Atmos guys, like us have been most decidedly left in the dust. |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Jul 25, 2023 9:10:30 GMT -5
There are several interesting options for different speaker configurations on the XMC-1. (Do note, however, that you can no longer purchase a new Dirac Live license for the XMC-1.) A few examples... 1. You can configure one Speaker Preset for 2.0 and another Speaker Preset for 3.1 . You can switch between Speaker Presets using one button on the remote. 2. With some sources changing modes will change the speakers being used... For example, if you have 3.1 speakers, and you're listening to CDs, SURROUND Mode will get you 3.1, but REFERENCE STEREO Mode will get you 2.0. Or, again depending on your source, you can just switch between Stereo and Surround modes. With such a niche request, you may be waiting a while -- I'd recommend looking for a used XMC-1 -- though no one is likely to have front panel controls for speakers, outside possibly an AVR. As far as amps go, most would want to know what kind of speakers you plan to run, and your music / HT balance, before making a recommendation, without that I'd probably get the A3. |
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Post by msimanyi on Jul 25, 2023 10:05:37 GMT -5
Not to steal Emotiva's thunder on their own forums, but would something like this do it for you? www.schiit.com/products/synThe biggest drawback is it doesn't support HDMI, so I have a feeling it's not sufficient for your needs. I believe it also lacks room correction. (Frankly, despite their hype about it at a show I attended in June, I'm kinda confused by the feature set.) But you can connect to your TV via optical and let their own "surround from stereo" features entertain... Between that and an upcoming G4 processor is a pretty big chasm of features and prices. I'd think your best bet is the full-featured processor, set to your choice of configurations, but perhaps at the price for the Syn it's worth a try. And the trial period let's you give it a shot for relatively little money, though there is a "restocking fee" of (I think) 15% and you'll pay return shipping costs. |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,275
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Post by KeithL on Jul 25, 2023 13:34:33 GMT -5
The Schiit Syn is an interesting device... To quote from Schiit's product page: "Syn isn’t like any other surround processor. It’s not digital. It supports no standard. Its all-analog processing doesn’t use any steering. It was developed by producing a simple matrix prototype, then tweaking it with analog computing techniques until it provided enjoyable, realistic results. This meant the development of two exclusive controls—Width and Presence—as well as specific headphone shaping and matrix cross-mixing." In other words it is a proprietary, all analog, matrix-type surround sound synthesizer. I don't know how the technology compares but this description would fit the old SQ4 Matric decoder - when used with stereo source material. (It might be interesting to see how it sounds with actual SQ4-encoded recordings.) Not to steal Emotiva's thunder on their own forums, but would something like this do it for you? www.schiit.com/products/synThe biggest drawback is it doesn't support HDMI, so I have a feeling it's not sufficient for your needs. I believe it also lacks room correction. (Frankly, despite their hype about it at a show I attended in June, I'm kinda confused by the feature set.) But you can connect to your TV via optical and let their own "surround from stereo" features entertain... Between that and an upcoming G4 processor is a pretty big chasm of features and prices. I'd think your best bet is the full-featured processor, set to your choice of configurations, but perhaps at the price for the Syn it's worth a try. And the trial period let's you give it a shot for relatively little money, though there is a "restocking fee" of (I think) 15% and you'll pay return shipping costs. |
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Post by Wooferine on Jul 25, 2023 13:51:35 GMT -5
With such a niche request, you may be waiting a while -- I'd recommend looking for a used XMC-1 -- though no one is likely to have front panel controls for speakers, outside possibly an AVR. As far as amps go, most would want to know what kind of speakers you plan to run, and your music / HT balance, before making a recommendation, without that I'd probably get the A3. My choice of amp is either an A3 or three A1s. Speaker-wise, it will be typical bookshelf type, 4-8 Ohms impedance, around 90 dB sensitivity. |
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Post by Wooferine on Jul 25, 2023 13:58:54 GMT -5
I've been wanting to put together a budget 3.1 ch system for causal music listening and occasional movie watching. I don't need a 16 ch home theatre setup with all its bells and whistles. I just want something simple, straight forward but with good quality. I've done my research on audio components. Emotiva is certainly on my list for its price point and quality. For the power amps, I have two options: 1) Emotiva BasX A3 2) Emotiva BasX A1 (x3) For the preamp processor, however, I am having trouble to find one. I will not consider an AVR with preamp output. So, my options are extremely limited to the point of non-existence. Therefore, I would like to make a special request for Emotiva to create a 3.1 ch preamp processor for people in a similar situation like mine. I can't be the only one on the market looking for something like this. Here is my proposal: Emotiva BasX PT3 3.1 Channel Preamp Processor with a DAC, Center Speaker Output and Active Subwoofer Output. Tuner is not necessary. Ideally, it should have a selector on the front panel for various speaker outputs: 1) All Three Speakers 2) Main Left and Right Speakers 3) Center Speaker Only This proposed unit should work for both 3.1 ch music listening as well as movie watching. As of now, I can't proceed to purchase the three amps without getting this preamp processor at the same time. My proposed system won't work without it. I am hoping Emotive will consider to produce such a unit so that I will have my 3.1 ch system up and running soon. Thanks, Emotiva. Wooferine I hear you, sir, and I’m in the same boat you’re in. Simple no longer exists for guys like us. The industry has dictated that a high-end processor must have 10,000 channels. Oh well… I’ve got an XMC1 which is my core control. Since I purchased it in 2014 it has become something to me that is worth it’s weight in gold for its high-end quality yet simplicity. In the advent of Dolby, Atmos guys, like us have been most decidedly left in the dust. The audio industry seems to be catering to the stereo audiophile type and the all-out high speaker-count home theatre enthusiasts. Those who are in between are left with extremely little options if any. XMC1 is replaced by XMC2 ($2499) which is far beyond my budget can afford. Besides, it has far too many speaker channels (16) than I need. It is not a right product for me unfortunately. |
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Post by Wooferine on Jul 25, 2023 14:06:00 GMT -5
Not to steal Emotiva's thunder on their own forums, but would something like this do it for you? www.schiit.com/products/synThe biggest drawback is it doesn't support HDMI, so I have a feeling it's not sufficient for your needs. I believe it also lacks room correction. (Frankly, despite their hype about it at a show I attended in June, I'm kinda confused by the feature set.) But you can connect to your TV via optical and let their own "surround from stereo" features entertain... Between that and an upcoming G4 processor is a pretty big chasm of features and prices. I'd think your best bet is the full-featured processor, set to your choice of configurations, but perhaps at the price for the Syn it's worth a try. And the trial period let's you give it a shot for relatively little money, though there is a "restocking fee" of (I think) 15% and you'll pay return shipping costs. Actually, I thought about it before. It is an interesting product. When connected to Freys S it would work as a preamp for the third speaker. I believe it would also work on its own. However, it is still designed for a stereo system. I really don't know what to expect from it in terms of performance and sound quality, etc. My preference is still a dedicated preamp processor specially made for 3.1 ch setup. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 25, 2023 15:18:11 GMT -5
With such a niche request, you may be waiting a while -- I'd recommend looking for a used XMC-1 -- though no one is likely to have front panel controls for speakers, outside possibly an AVR. As far as amps go, most would want to know what kind of speakers you plan to run, and your music / HT balance, before making a recommendation, without that I'd probably get the A3. My choice of amp is either an A3 or three A1s. Speaker-wise, it will be typical bookshelf type, 4-8 Ohms impedance, around 90 dB sensitivity. Short of a difficult load, I’ll stick with the A3 recommendation (as well as the XMC-1 — available used for about $500-900). |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,275
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Post by KeithL on Jul 25, 2023 15:47:46 GMT -5
I've never heard Schiit's Syn... but I did have several different SQ4 matrix decoders back in the old days... which are quite similar in principle... (an analog/matrix/surround system) (And I think it would be pretty safe to expect this to deliver similar results.) Here's what I would expect... - a somewhat floaty surround sound effect, usually without sharp object localization, but quite pleasant overall - very nice effect with live recordings and recordings with lots of ambience (most of the ambience will end up in the surrounds where it sounds relatively natural) - less effective with studio recordings and recordings with little ambiance - occasional really bizarre results (remember that it doesn't know where sounds actually belong so it's faking it) (the most bizarre thing will be that sometimes harmonics end up in different channels than the instruments they go with) - since it is analog, there won't be any digital artifacts, and it should sound quite clean - with one exception - the matrix will tend to "push noise and distortion into the surround channels" (so on noisy or distorted recordings, the nasty stuff will get sent to the surrounds, and probably emphasized as well) Note that the "negatives" are mitigated by the fact that it has convenient controls on the front... (So you can just tone down, or even disable, the effect when playing recordings where it doesn't sound good.) This is the sort of thing that will probably work especially well with older live recordings that are NOT actually in surround... but have lots of ambience... (But don't expect the results with surround content to be even close to what you would get if you decode it for real.) In case you haven't realized, I've never heard one, and would probably never buy one myself, but I think it actually sounds like a pretty cool idea... Not to steal Emotiva's thunder on their own forums, but would something like this do it for you? www.schiit.com/products/synThe biggest drawback is it doesn't support HDMI, so I have a feeling it's not sufficient for your needs. I believe it also lacks room correction. (Frankly, despite their hype about it at a show I attended in June, I'm kinda confused by the feature set.) But you can connect to your TV via optical and let their own "surround from stereo" features entertain... Between that and an upcoming G4 processor is a pretty big chasm of features and prices. I'd think your best bet is the full-featured processor, set to your choice of configurations, but perhaps at the price for the Syn it's worth a try. And the trial period let's you give it a shot for relatively little money, though there is a "restocking fee" of (I think) 15% and you'll pay return shipping costs. Actually, I thought about it before. It is an interesting product. When connected to Freys S it would work as a preamp for the third speaker. I believe it would also work on its own. However, it is still designed for a stereo system. I really don't know what to expect from it in terms of performance and sound quality, etc. My preference is still a dedicated preamp processor specially made for 3.1 ch setup. |
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Post by 405x5 on Jul 25, 2023 17:07:07 GMT -5
The audio industry seems to be catering to the stereo audiophile type and the all-out high speaker-count home theatre enthusiasts. Those who are in between are left with extremely little options if any. XMC1 is replaced by XMC2 ($2499) which is far beyond my budget can afford. Besides, it has far too many speaker channels (16) than I need. It is not a right product for me unfortunately. To deal with the problem realistically these days, the best alternative is going to be the used market for a processor. Normally I would stay away from such a thing, but with a lot of people migrating to Dolby Atmos, it shouldn’t be that much of a challenge. I am a big eBay fan and I’ve done very well there Both with selling and buying. 3.1 is not something you’ll find, but you’ll be able to pick up a 7.1 processor and use what you need with little difficulty and XMC ones have been popping up (Maybe one a week or so.)No one is going to build the processor that you would enjoy. This is less of a daunting challenge, then looking to buy a used amplifier, which could be more of a problem down the road. |
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Post by msimanyi on Jul 25, 2023 17:09:41 GMT -5
In case you haven't realized, I've never heard one, and would probably never buy one myself, but I think it actually sounds like a pretty cool idea... Actually, I thought about it before. It is an interesting product. When connected to Freys S it would work as a preamp for the third speaker. I believe it would also work on its own. However, it is still designed for a stereo system. I really don't know what to expect from it in terms of performance and sound quality, etc. My preference is still a dedicated preamp processor specially made for 3.1 ch setup. I heard it in their room, playing a movie at T.H.E. Show in Costa Mesa last month, and it was playing over small speakers as the OP is considering. It wasn't objectionable in any way, though it also wasn't up to the level of my own system... which is vastly more expensive. Honestly, I think this is a potentially great solution for the OP. I don't know why he would pair it with the Freya (I have one in my office system and love it, but that's just unnecessary complexity *unless* there's a HT Bypass mode that I don't know about), but I'm sure the support people at Schiit could answer some questions for him. Edited to add: I don't see any reference to Home Theater Bypass or Pass Through on the Freya+, but I would think that's needed. Any analog "processing" (pun intended) to simulate surround sound will have to be done by the Syn for all the speakers. But the price is right! Wooferine, if you try it please let us know your observations. |
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Post by Wooferine on Jul 26, 2023 11:05:30 GMT -5
I've never heard Schiit's Syn... but I did have several different SQ4 matrix decoders back in the old days... which are quite similar in principle... (an analog/matrix/surround system) (And I think it would be pretty safe to expect this to deliver similar results.) Here's what I would expect... - a somewhat floaty surround sound effect, usually without sharp object localization, but quite pleasant overall - very nice effect with live recordings and recordings with lots of ambience (most of the ambience will end up in the surrounds where it sounds relatively natural) - less effective with studio recordings and recordings with little ambiance - occasional really bizarre results (remember that it doesn't know where sounds actually belong so it's faking it) (the most bizarre thing will be that sometimes harmonics end up in different channels than the instruments they go with) - since it is analog, there won't be any digital artifacts, and it should sound quite clean - with one exception - the matrix will tend to "push noise and distortion into the surround channels" (so on noisy or distorted recordings, the nasty stuff will get sent to the surrounds, and probably emphasized as well) Note that the "negatives" are mitigated by the fact that it has convenient controls on the front... (So you can just tone down, or even disable, the effect when playing recordings where it doesn't sound good.) This is the sort of thing that will probably work especially well with older live recordings that are NOT actually in surround... but have lots of ambience... (But don't expect the results with surround content to be even close to what you would get if you decode it for real.) In case you haven't realized, I've never heard one, and would probably never buy one myself, but I think it actually sounds like a pretty cool idea... Actually, I thought about it before. It is an interesting product. When connected to Freys S it would work as a preamp for the third speaker. I believe it would also work on its own. However, it is still designed for a stereo system. I really don't know what to expect from it in terms of performance and sound quality, etc. My preference is still a dedicated preamp processor specially made for 3.1 ch setup. I don't think that little Schiit Syn will deliver the sound quality I look for. It is probably better suited for desktop applications such as playing online video games or watching movies on computer monitor. However, it is the only product I know of that will allow me to use as a preamp for the third speaker in a 3.1 ch setup, and it also has a sub out. Handy but doesn't quite fulfil my requirements. |
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Post by Wooferine on Jul 26, 2023 11:20:30 GMT -5
To deal with the problem realistically these days, the best alternative is going to be the used market for a processor. Normally I would stay away from such a thing, but with a lot of people migrating to Dolby Atmos, it shouldn’t be that much of a challenge. I am a big eBay fan and I’ve done very well there Both with selling and buying. 3.1 is not something you’ll find, but you’ll be able to pick up a 7.1 processor and use what you need with little difficulty and XMC ones have been popping up (Maybe one a week or so.)No one is going to build the processor that you would enjoy. This is less of a daunting challenge, then looking to buy a used amplifier, which could be more of a problem down the road. I am not very keen on used electronics. I can never tell how long a given piece would last without needing some serious and probably costly repair work on it. I feel more confidant buying a used CD then I would buying a used processor or AVR. It's just something I wouldn't do unfortunately. I am still hopeful that some company will realise there is a market for 3.1 ch system and build a component for it. Just imagine a living room in a small apartment where the couch is backed against the wall with absolutely no space behind it for surround speakers. The only option for people in that situation is the three front speakers and a sub. A dedicated preamp processor is needed for that 3.1 ch set up in order to generate good quality sound. Not everyone will settle for a sound bar. |
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Post by Wooferine on Jul 26, 2023 11:28:10 GMT -5
In case you haven't realized, I've never heard one, and would probably never buy one myself, but I think it actually sounds like a pretty cool idea... I heard it in their room, playing a movie at T.H.E. Show in Costa Mesa last month, and it was playing over small speakers as the OP is considering. It wasn't objectionable in any way, though it also wasn't up to the level of my own system... which is vastly more expensive. Honestly, I think this is a potentially great solution for the OP. I don't know why he would pair it with the Freya (I have one in my office system and love it, but that's just unnecessary complexity *unless* there's a HT Bypass mode that I don't know about), but I'm sure the support people at Schiit could answer some questions for him. Edited to add: I don't see any reference to Home Theater Bypass or Pass Through on the Freya+, but I would think that's needed. Any analog "processing" (pun intended) to simulate surround sound will have to be done by the Syn for all the speakers. But the price is right! Wooferine , if you try it please let us know your observations. I am not entire sure but I might be able to connect all three speakers to an A3 and the Syn. It might work that way but I have a feeling that I wouldn't be satisfied with the sound quality it provides. I will share my experience using it if I ever get one. |
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Post by 405x5 on Jul 26, 2023 11:31:28 GMT -5
I am not very keen on used electronics. I can never tell how long a given piece would last without needing some serious and probably costly repair work on it. I feel more confidant buying a used CD than I would buying a used processor or AVR. It's just something I wouldn't do unfortunately. I am still hopeful that some company will realise there is a market for 3.1 ch system and build a component for it. Just imagine a living room in a small apartment where the couch is backed against the wall with absolutely no space behind it for surround speakers. The only option for people in that situation is the three front speakers and a sub. A dedicated preamp processor is needed for that 3.1 ch set up in order to generate good quality sound. Not everyone will settle for a sound bar. Well, I’m certainly with you on this with respect to used components. That being said, it certainly doesn’t mean that you can’t luck out. Unfortunately The component you seek will never be had and as time goes on, and you scout it out, you will find this to be true, unfortunately. The industry simply will not regress. So if you get serious about this, you can think about eBay or such being an exercise in human nature……meaning that if you get with the RIGHT seller who will guarantee, what they’re selling and take it back if it doesn’t work perfectly you’ll be OK except that you will have to purchase something between 5.1 or two and 7.1 either way. I certainly hope you are successful in getting that what you wish. |
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Post by Wooferine on Jul 26, 2023 11:38:58 GMT -5
Hey Emotiva, please build that BasX PT3 3.1 Channel Preamp Processor with DAC, Center Speaker Output and Active Subwoofer Output I am looking for.
You are the most suitable company out there to introduce a product like that to the market. I strongly believe there is a demand for it.
You have already given us BasX A3. You need to give us the right preamp processor to go with it.
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Post by ottaone on Jul 29, 2023 8:16:05 GMT -5
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Post by 405x5 on Jul 30, 2023 7:12:18 GMT -5
O.P. looking for a Processor, not a receiver. |
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