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Post by ac2011 on Aug 3, 2023 14:17:13 GMT -5
Currently using a Yamaha RX-A3040, which is/was my 2nd Yamaha receiver. Running a 7.2 ("traditional 5.2 + front heights). Using Emotiva amps (XPA-100's on LCR + BasX 500). (Yeah, all this equipment is OLD, I know!)
Thinking about upgrading my main TV to at least 4K. Predominantly TV/movie (cable box + streaming services), not much music. Have an Xbox Series S connected, so I know I'm probably not getting the best out of it either. Have been planning for sometime to add rear speakers to the system - not sure if I'll ever get to full Atmos.
So started looking at AVRs. Completely shocked and floored by the price of Yamaha now - I bought mine new for $1,899+tax (Canadian), and the current "equivalent" (feature-wise, I think) is the RX-A6A, which is $3,599+tax (Canadian). So, probably won't be going there, unless I wait until the next model version is coming out and get one at a discount.
Can get an Onkyo TX-RX50 at a reasonable price, but...Onkyo...not sure. Very possible/likely I turn to Denon, but then the "fun" begins. Found a store with B-Stock of various of the new and prior gen models in a price range I'm comfortable with. AVR X-3800 certainly has, I think, everything I would need. But for only $200 more, I can get a prior gen X4700, which has additional inputs, maybe better build quality, but not as many HDMI 2.1 connects - but maybe I don't need this anyway. Stretching up a bit more (and maybe out of the comfort zone) is the X4800, which I read has better build quality and better DAC - but if I'm using external amps anyway, should I even care about those things?
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Post by geebo on Aug 3, 2023 14:39:36 GMT -5
Currently using a Yamaha RX-A3040, which is/was my 2nd Yamaha receiver. Running a 7.2 ("traditional 5.2 + front heights). Using Emotiva amps (XPA-100's on LCR + BasX 500). (Yeah, all this equipment is OLD, I know!) Thinking about upgrading my main TV to at least 4K. Predominantly TV/movie (cable box + streaming services), not much music. Have an Xbox Series S connected, so I know I'm probably not getting the best out of it either. Have been planning for sometime to add rear speakers to the system - not sure if I'll ever get to full Atmos. So started looking at AVRs. Completely shocked and floored by the price of Yamaha now - I bought mine new for $1,899+tax (Canadian), and the current "equivalent" (feature-wise, I think) is the RX-A6A, which is $3,599+tax (Canadian). So, probably won't be going there, unless I wait until the next model version is coming out and get one at a discount. Can get an Onkyo TX-RX50 at a reasonable price, but...Onkyo...not sure. Very possible/likely I turn to Denon, but then the "fun" begins. Found a store with B-Stock of various of the new and prior gen models in a price range I'm comfortable with. AVR X-3800 certainly has, I think, everything I would need. But for only $200 more, I can get a prior gen X4700, which has additional inputs, maybe better build quality, but not as many HDMI 2.1 connects - but maybe I don't need this anyway. Stretching up a bit more (and maybe out of the comfort zone) is the X4800, which I read has better build quality and better DAC - but if I'm using external amps anyway, should I even care about those things? Have you looked at the new Emotiva AVR's? And maybe the XMC-2? emotiva.com/collections/processors/products/basx-mr1l-9-2-channel-dolby-atmos%C2%AE-dts-x%E2%84%A2-cinema-receiveremotiva.com/collections/processors/products/basx-mr1-11-2-channel-dolby-atmos%C2%AE-dts-x%E2%84%A2-cinema-receiveremotiva.com/collections/processors/products/xmc-2 |
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 3, 2023 14:40:45 GMT -5
Currently using a Yamaha RX-A3040, which is/was my 2nd Yamaha receiver. Running a 7.2 ("traditional 5.2 + front heights). Using Emotiva amps (XPA-100's on LCR + BasX 500). (Yeah, all this equipment is OLD, I know!) Thinking about upgrading my main TV to at least 4K. Predominantly TV/movie (cable box + streaming services), not much music. Have an Xbox Series S connected, so I know I'm probably not getting the best out of it either. Have been planning for sometime to add rear speakers to the system - not sure if I'll ever get to full Atmos. So started looking at AVRs. Completely shocked and floored by the price of Yamaha now - I bought mine new for $1,899+tax (Canadian), and the current "equivalent" (feature-wise, I think) is the RX-A6A, which is $3,599+tax (Canadian). So, probably won't be going there, unless I wait until the next model version is coming out and get one at a discount. Can get an Onkyo TX-RX50 at a reasonable price, but...Onkyo...not sure. Very possible/likely I turn to Denon, but then the "fun" begins. Found a store with B-Stock of various of the new and prior gen models in a price range I'm comfortable with. AVR X-3800 certainly has, I think, everything I would need. But for only $200 more, I can get a prior gen X4700, which has additional inputs, maybe better build quality, but not as many HDMI 2.1 connects - but maybe I don't need this anyway. Stretching up a bit more (and maybe out of the comfort zone) is the X4800, which I read has better build quality and better DAC - but if I'm using external amps anyway, should I even care about those things? Yes, I agree you’re confused |
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Post by vcautokid on Aug 3, 2023 21:51:35 GMT -5
I was curious about Onkyo too since now part of VOXX distribution....Klipsch and so on ownership. It has DIRAC room correction. Which is cool. As does the Pioneer which is highly related since they too and Integra are distributed by VOXX. My means were simple, and I just didn't want to spend thousands on a new receiver. I could care less about 8K right now anyway. My TV does 4K. It is a Samsung and yep the one that does not do Dolby Vision. Odd that.
I went with a used in prime condition Anthem MRX-520 including the ARC room correction system. Even included the mic stand that really looks like a mic stand and calibration microphone similar to other USB microphones, not the round puck thing that usually comes with. My receiver cost me including tax and shipping was about $900.00. It doesn't do Atmos so you would need to go to the 720 or higher or newer.
For me the road to basically what is a computer(s) inside and audio and video management is out of my budget and realm. I bought my Parasound amplifiers used and the BAS-X A2 x 2 new. Speakers were bought new, and were the scratch and dent, which were really more like open box and saved even more. I bought a Subwoofer new from a connection I knew from a company.
I think I did pretty well overall. The Receiver or Pre Pro would have been my largest exposure of cash outlay. Many can swing it. I just didn't want too. Even my Anthem AVM-30 I got used for $175.00 still sounds great. No HDMI or other bells and whistles, it just sounds good.
I have a Sony BluRay as my primary source, then stream from the TV, and a Reel to Reel for my Analog thing going on.
If I was buying a new receiver I think the MR1-L would have been the maximum I would have bought. I love the thinking that went into it. Being an audio person since I was 5 years old, I learned pretty quick what counts, and what is just nice.
The MR1-L has a great power supply, nice output stages and more of what I think counts. Nobody is giving you a Toroid Power Supply at this price. Sure the MR1-L will not do the Denon,Marantz,Pioneer, Onkyo, Integra feature set, but I don't think Dan and Lonnie ever intended that. And for me I agree with it. Also no 8K UHD 60hz either, at least just not right now.
Receivers for sure have allot going on right now, and they will continue to escalate in feature capability and price. For me I just wanted the best value in a receiver, and I understood my must haves, and what I could skip, or add later.
I do the same with my photography needs. Over 90% of it is used bought from authorized dealers with warranty. I bought a lightly used Canon 1DX camera, $6800.00 new in the day for only $675.00 with warranty plus tax shipped to my door. This is a professional camera and for the price of plastic new ones, I got a legend that press, and professionals still use today, or a variant of it.
Yeah I am strange sure, but I get more for the money because I am clear on a systems approach, and expectations and budget. Example last here is all my cameras run on the Canon EF system lenses including my Sonys too! So just be clear what you want. Be honest, and take your time, they aren't going anywhere. Your hard earned money should by more, and give you the enjoyment for years to come.
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Post by leewilli on Aug 8, 2023 13:51:11 GMT -5
I was curious about Onkyo too since now part of VOXX distribution....Klipsch and so on ownership. It has DIRAC room correction. Which is cool. As does the Pioneer which is highly related since they too and Integra are distributed by VOXX. My means were simple, and I just didn't want to spend thousands on a new receiver. I could care less about 8K right now anyway. My TV does 4K. It is a Samsung and yep the one that does not do Dolby Vision. Odd that. I went with a used in prime condition Anthem MRX-520 including the ARC room correction system. Even included the mic stand that really looks like a mic stand and calibration microphone similar to other USB microphones, not the round puck thing that usually comes with. My receiver cost me including tax and shipping was about $900.00. It doesn't do Atmos so you would need to go to the 720 or higher or newer. For me the road to basically what is a computer(s) inside and audio and video management is out of my budget and realm. I bought my Parasound amplifiers used and the BAS-X A2 x 2 new. Speakers were bought new, and were the scratch and dent, which were really more like open box and saved even more. I bought a Subwoofer new from a connection I knew from a company. I think I did pretty well overall. The Receiver or Pre Pro would have been my largest exposure of cash outlay. Many can swing it. I just didn't want too. Even my Anthem AVM-30 I got used for $175.00 still sounds great. No HDMI or other bells and whistles, it just sounds good. I have a Sony BluRay as my primary source, then stream from the TV, and a Reel to Reel for my Analog thing going on. If I was buying a new receiver I think the MR1-L would have been the maximum I would have bought. I love the thinking that went into it. Being an audio person since I was 5 years old, I learned pretty quick what counts, and what is just nice. The MR1-L has a great power supply, nice output stages and more of what I think counts. Nobody is giving you a Toroid Power Supply at this price. Sure the MR1-L will not do the Denon,Marantz,Pioneer, Onkyo, Integra feature set, but I don't think Dan and Lonnie ever intended that. And for me I agree with it. Also no 8K UHD 60hz either, at least just not right now. Receivers for sure have allot going on right now, and they will continue to escalate in feature capability and price. For me I just wanted the best value in a receiver, and I understood my must haves, and what I could skip, or add later. I do the same with my photography needs. Over 90% of it is used bought from authorized dealers with warranty. I bought a lightly used Canon 1DX camera, $6800.00 new in the day for only $675.00 with warranty plus tax shipped to my door. This is a professional camera and for the price of plastic new ones, I got a legend that press, and professionals still use today, or a variant of it. Yeah I am strange sure, but I get more for the money because I am clear on a systems approach, and expectations and budget. Example last here is all my cameras run on the Canon EF system lenses including my Sonys too! So just be clear what you want. Be honest, and take your time, they aren't going anywhere. Your hard earned money should by more, and give you the enjoyment for years to come. You're not strange, you just know what you want. How many customers go for Yamaha (ex v673 owner here) and NEVER use the additional Zones they throw in? How many people are complaining about Emotiva not supporting HDMI 2.1 are actually gamers that need it or even have plans for 8K before full 8K introduction, price drops, and even content for that matter? The Emotiva solution is sensible, price friendly and great value, and kind of minimalist to a degree. My Denon x3700H had so many features I never used or planned to (Bluetooth, wireless, streaming from the unit, etc.), but I got great use Quick Access buttons, the 2nd OUTPUT for my projector, and really loved having the ability to switch on Dyn Volume and LFC for late night viewing. That wasn't enough to not upgrade to the MC1 though. :-) You're not strange. You're a cost conscientious consumer. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 9, 2023 14:02:03 GMT -5
AVR choices DO NOT MATTER. ANYTHING you buy will be obsolete before you can get it home and hooked up. If you like to listen to movies loudly, pick an AVR with sufficient wattage (remembering that any power increase of less than 2x is essentially worthless). Otherwise, save some $$$ and buy the least expensive AVR that meets your requirements. Sound quality differences between AVR brands are virtually non-existant. Buy on price knowing that resale values for more expensive AVRs are no greater than for economy models. A used AVR is a used AVR...
The processor / power amplifier option does not make financial sense. Although the power amps won't become obsolete, the processor certainly will (and quickly) and you can buy an AVR with amplifiers built in for significantly less than the cost of a new processor. The resale value of used processors is actually LESS than the resale value of used AVRs.
Of course, it's your money and your choice, but I firmly believe what I've stated here. Now let the hate mail begin!
Boomzilla (aka Glenn Young) - retired audio reviewer for the Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity website
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Aug 9, 2023 14:34:55 GMT -5
AVR choices DO NOT MATTER. ANYTHING you buy will be obsolete before you can get it home and hooked up. If you like to listen to movies loudly, pick an AVR with sufficient wattage (remembering that any power increase of less than 2x is essentially worthless). Otherwise, save some $$$ and buy the least expensive AVR that meets your requirements. Sound quality differences between AVR brands are virtually non-existant. Buy on price knowing that resale values for more expensive AVRs are no greater than for economy models. A used AVR is a used AVR... The processor / power amplifier option does not make financial sense. Although the power amps won't become obsolete, the processor certainly will (and quickly) and you can buy an AVR with amplifiers built in for significantly less than the cost of a new processor. The resale value of used processors is actually LESS than the resale value of used AVRs. Of course, it's your money and your choice, but I firmly believe what I've stated here. Now let the hate mail begin! Boomzilla (aka Glenn Young) - retired audio reviewer for the Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity website I do agree with you. This is why an AVR that will be kept updated by the manufacturer is a better bet. For example, Emotiva's AVR. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Aug 10, 2023 7:31:20 GMT -5
AVR choices DO NOT MATTER. ANYTHING you buy will be obsolete before you can get it home and hooked up. If you like to listen to movies loudly, pick an AVR with sufficient wattage (remembering that any power increase of less than 2x is essentially worthless). Otherwise, save some $$$ and buy the least expensive AVR that meets your requirements. Sound quality differences between AVR brands are virtually non-existant. Buy on price knowing that resale values for more expensive AVRs are no greater than for economy models. A used AVR is a used AVR... The processor / power amplifier option does not make financial sense. Although the power amps won't become obsolete, the processor certainly will (and quickly) and you can buy an AVR with amplifiers built in for significantly less than the cost of a new processor. The resale value of used processors is actually LESS than the resale value of used AVRs. Of course, it's your money and your choice, but I firmly believe what I've stated here. Now let the hate mail begin! Boomzilla (aka Glenn Young) - retired audio reviewer for the Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity website I agree with Boomzilla...if it wasn't for the original cheap cost of the XMC-1...had the discount card...I would have likely just porchased a mid-level AVR for the processing and added an amp. Cost wise it makes perfect sense. Sure, I wouldn't have XLR, but in reality with my short cable runs, it wouldn't make a difference. For the price, the Emotiva AVR(s) are what I would likely purchase. |
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 10, 2023 8:12:30 GMT -5
“AVR choices DO NOT MATTER. ANYTHING you buy will be obsolete before you can get it home and hooked up.” LOL…..uhhhh no. obsolescence in this instance is as subjective as anything else. only your configuration intentions determine whether or not it’s obsolete. No better example of this than the infamous Emotiva XMC1, were nearly 10 years. After the fact, it is now a Processor that’s worth its weight in gold for some of us, because it DOESN’T have Atmos……something a lot of us were cursing and screaming at (figuratively speaking,) because of its simultaneous introduction. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 10, 2023 8:26:55 GMT -5
LOL…..uhhhh no. obsolescence in this instance is as subjective as anything else. only your configuration intentions determine whether or not it’s obsolete. No better example of this than the infamous Emotiva XMC1, were nearly 10 years. After the fact, it is now a Processor that’s worth its weight in gold for some of us, because it DOESN’T have Atmos……something a lot of us were cursing and screaming at (figuratively speaking,) because of its simultaneous introduction. OK - One could say the same thing about just about ANY high-end processor. McIntosh AV processors, for example, also have good resale value - not because of their "up to the minute features," but because of their quality construction and the prestige of the brand. I must point out, however, that you've shifted the discussion from AVRs to processors. The average AVR customer is FAR more likely to buy (at least to some extent) on the receiver's certification to the latest features. Do you think that any AVR maker would remain competitive in the market without the features offered by the competitors? No. I stand by my statements. Cordially - Boom Postscriptum - Over the past decade, I've seen literally hundreds of used AVRs at garage sales for sales prices between $25 and $100. The range of original selling prices ran from $300 to $2,000. Note that high original price did NOT translate to a high price on the used market, despite the fact that the unit functioned "as new." |
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 10, 2023 9:25:00 GMT -5
LOL…..uhhhh no. obsolescence in this instance is as subjective as anything else. only your configuration intentions determine whether or not it’s obsolete. No better example of this than the infamous Emotiva XMC1, were nearly 10 years. After the fact, it is now a Processor that’s worth its weight in gold for some of us, because it DOESN’T have Atmos……something a lot of us were cursing and screaming at (figuratively speaking,) because of its simultaneous introduction. “I must point out, however, that you've shifted the discussion” …….. the following… Yours within the same thread “The processor / power amplifier option does not make financial sense. Although the power amps won't become obsolete, the processor certainly will (and quickly) and you can buy an AVR with amplifiers built in for significantly less than the cost of a new processor. The resale value of used processors is actually LESS than the resale value of used AVRs. Of course, it's your money and your choice, but I firmly believe what I've stated here. Now let the hate mail begin!” |
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Post by monkumonku on Aug 10, 2023 10:03:44 GMT -5
AVR choices DO NOT MATTER. ANYTHING you buy will be obsolete before you can get it home and hooked up. If you like to listen to movies loudly, pick an AVR with sufficient wattage (remembering that any power increase of less than 2x is essentially worthless). Otherwise, save some $$$ and buy the least expensive AVR that meets your requirements. Sound quality differences between AVR brands are virtually non-existant. Buy on price knowing that resale values for more expensive AVRs are no greater than for economy models. A used AVR is a used AVR... The processor / power amplifier option does not make financial sense. Although the power amps won't become obsolete, the processor certainly will (and quickly) and you can buy an AVR with amplifiers built in for significantly less than the cost of a new processor. The resale value of used processors is actually LESS than the resale value of used AVRs. Of course, it's your money and your choice, but I firmly believe what I've stated here. Now let the hate mail begin! Boomzilla (aka Glenn Young) - retired audio reviewer for the Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity website Then there's this - Schiit says this never becomes obsolete. Some of you may say it already is obsolete. Me, I say in a blind test you'd be just as happy using this as the latest and greatest processor. So let the hate posts continue!  www.schiit.com/products/syn |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Aug 10, 2023 10:29:35 GMT -5
You're not exactly wrong... But both the technical and financial considerations are a bit more complex than you suggest... I would absolutely agree that power amps really don't ever become obsolete... You may be able to buy one that is smaller, runs cooler, or costs less, a few years down the road. But, if you have a good power amp today, it will still be a good power amp for the foreseeable future. (And that's a great justification for buying a good separate power amp you can keep instead of one that's part of an AVR that will eventually become obsolete.) I would also be inclined to agree that, if you always go for the latest and greatest and features, both processors and AVRs do become obsolete quite quickly. But, to be fair, if you don't need the latest features, that isn't necessarily true. (If you don't plan to install height speakers, then a good 5.1 or 7.1 system from a few years ago, that supports TrueHD and DTS-X, is still just fine.) However, while you're right about low-end AVRs being really cheap, and reasonably capable, there are still significant differences. For example, the amplifiers in most low-cost AVRs are really not very good at all... both in terms of power and sound quality. And, like it or not, most manufacturers DON'T include a full set of preamp outputs on their lower-cost AVR models. (So, in order to get an AVR that can actually be used as a processor, you're going to have to pay for a middle-of-the-line model.) And, if you actually want an AVR with a really decent amplifier section, now you're looking at higher-end AVRs, which carry much higher price tags. (So, now you're looking at AVRs that cost as much as a separate pre/pro and power amp, but lack the flexibility of separates.) (And, to be quite blunt, if you look at critical reviews, or just plain listen for yourself, even very expensive AVRs often don't sound quite as good as separates either.) (And, yes, OUR AVRs DO actually have really good amplifiers in them, but we aren't giving them away...  ) One thing many folks wonder is "why can't a company who sells a $1000 AVR sell just the preamp part separately as a $400 pre/pro"? The short answer there is that, in most cases, it is the processor part that is expensive to design, build, license, support, and keep up to date. The processor has the complex electronics in it, and the programming that has to be kept up to date, and the decoders and HDMI components that have to be licensed... And, to put it bluntly, most big companies couldn't stay in business if you kept your amplifiers forever, and just replaced a relatively low cost pre/pro every few years. This is the same reason why they don't include a full set of preamp output jacks in their bottom-of-the-line AVR... The jacks would only cost a few dollars; but, if they were included in the bottom model, then you'd have no reason to spend several hundred dollars more for the better model... Heck... on some of the newer cars you have to pay for an extra subscription to enable features that the hardware you bought is already capable of doing... (Just wait a few years and you may end up having to pay "only $3 a month" to "enable" the preamp jacks on that new AVR you just got on sale.) “I must point out, however, that you've shifted the discussion” …….. the following… Yours within the same thread “The processor / power amplifier option does not make financial sense. Although the power amps won't become obsolete, the processor certainly will (and quickly) and you can buy an AVR with amplifiers built in for significantly less than the cost of a new processor. The resale value of used processors is actually LESS than the resale value of used AVRs. Of course, it's your money and your choice, but I firmly believe what I've stated here. Now let the hate mail begin!” |
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Post by KeithL on Aug 10, 2023 10:53:09 GMT -5
Something is only "obsolete" when it no longer fulfils YOUR needs... We live in a society where we have been convinced that we must always have "the latest and greatest"... And most advertising is based on the idea that: "What you have isn't good enough... so you need a new one (or at least would be happier with a new one)." Schiit's Syn won't decode Dolby Atmos content "just as the creators intended it to be heard"... And it absolutely won't properly support whatever new format comes out next year... But it works with any stereo content... which means that it will work with virtually any music that exists or ever will exist... So, as long as you like what it does, and it satisfies your needs, and makes you happy, then it will never become obsolete. (And, to be quite blunt, many people will find that fact satisfying in and of itself.) To add an editorial comment to that... I recently saw the new Oppenheimer movie... in Imax... and, I assume, Atmos... The movie itself was great.... and the sound was... good... just fine... But, to be honest, I didn't notice much benefit to having height channels... They were definitely there... and every now and then there was something in them... and it sounded like it belonged there... But, to be even more honest, I would have been perfectly happy if it had been in 5.1 ... And, to be even more honest, I would have enjoyed it in stereo too... AVR choices DO NOT MATTER. ANYTHING you buy will be obsolete before you can get it home and hooked up. If you like to listen to movies loudly, pick an AVR with sufficient wattage (remembering that any power increase of less than 2x is essentially worthless). Otherwise, save some $$$ and buy the least expensive AVR that meets your requirements. Sound quality differences between AVR brands are virtually non-existant. Buy on price knowing that resale values for more expensive AVRs are no greater than for economy models. A used AVR is a used AVR... The processor / power amplifier option does not make financial sense. Although the power amps won't become obsolete, the processor certainly will (and quickly) and you can buy an AVR with amplifiers built in for significantly less than the cost of a new processor. The resale value of used processors is actually LESS than the resale value of used AVRs. Of course, it's your money and your choice, but I firmly believe what I've stated here. Now let the hate mail begin! Boomzilla (aka Glenn Young) - retired audio reviewer for the Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity website Then there's this - Schiit says this never becomes obsolete. Some of you may say it already is obsolete. Me, I say in a blind test you'd be just as happy using this as the latest and greatest processor. So let the hate posts continue! www.schiit.com/products/syn |
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Post by monkumonku on Aug 10, 2023 11:30:30 GMT -5
Something is only "obsolete" when it no longer fulfils YOUR needs... We live in a society where we have been convinced that we must always have "the latest and greatest"... And most advertising is based on the idea that: "What you have isn't good enough... so you need a new one (or at least would be happier with a new one)." Schiit's Syn won't decode Dolby Atmos content "just as the creators intended it to be heard"... And it absolutely won't properly support whatever new format comes out next year... But it works with any stereo content... which means that it will work with virtually any music that exists or ever will exist... So, as long as you like what it does, and it satisfies your needs, and makes you happy, then it will never become obsolete. (And, to be quite blunt, many people will find that fact satisfying in and of itself.) To add an editorial comment to that... I recently saw the new Oppenheimer movie... in Imax... and, I assume, Atmos... The movie itself was great.... and the sound was... good... just fine... But, to be honest, I didn't notice much benefit to having height channels... They were definitely there... and every now and then there was something in them... and it sounded like it belonged there... But, to be even more honest, I would have been perfectly happy if it had been in 5.1 ... And, to be even more honest, I would have enjoyed it in stereo too... Then there's this - Schiit says this never becomes obsolete. Some of you may say it already is obsolete. Me, I say in a blind test you'd be just as happy using this as the latest and greatest processor. So let the hate posts continue! www.schiit.com/products/synI agree. One ought to choose what best suits their needs. Personally, I don't see the need to pinpoint every single sound in 3D when watching a movie. What I question is how much incremental enjoyment do people get from each new "feature" that is released that requires more firmware updates or new technology or whatever. Are these new features really there to add a significant improvement to the viewer's experience, or is it just another ploy to make more money? It's like drug companies coming up with new diseases or afflictions to generate more revenues from people who now need it even though before they never realized they had an affliction. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 10, 2023 14:15:06 GMT -5
...We live in a society where we have been convinced that we must always have "the latest and greatest"... Although your statement IS true, it doesn't tell the whole story. In the AV world, new audio and video decoding arrives at a dizzying rate. The available disc space for movies is continuously eaten up with ever more video storage (DVD to Blu-Ray to 4K to...), leaving an ever smaller portion of the available storage to include reverse-compatible audio formatting. Although a processor or AVR may still function, there is absolutely NO guarantee that the latest software will sound right. My friends and I have noticed repeatedly that "Dolby Atmos" soundtracks have terrible playback artifacts on the center (dialogue) channel when played back using older CODECs. So my friends' AVRs and processors still work, but just not quite right. So are the "latest and greatest" demands on hardware created by marketing, or by the demands of software? You can't buy the latest movie with the soundtrack formatted to the CODEC that your older hardware happens to support. And increasingly, there are fewer and fewer audio options on movie discs beyond the "latest and greatest" audio default. Now there ARE several ways to deal with this issue. Disc players that have the latest audio decoding built in are becoming FAR cheaper than buying an AVR or processor with such decoding. One could buy a relatively inexpensive disc player with its own volume control and run the analog (already decoded) outputs either into the AVR/processor or directly into the power amps. No volume control on the disc player? You'll need full analog (5.1, 7.1, etc.) inputs into the AVR or processor. But "offloading" audio processing to the disc player could, at least theoretically, save a LOT of money by extending the utility of the AVR or processor. |
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 10, 2023 14:17:55 GMT -5
“So started looking at AVRs. Completely shocked and floored by the price of Yamaha now - I bought mine new for $1,899+tax (Canadian), and the current "equivalent" (feature-wise, I think) is the RX-A6A, which is $3,599+tax (Canadian). So, probably won't be going there, unless I wait until the next model version is coming out and get one at a discount.” I don’t think the price should be at all surprising, given the state of the art and the demands that are put on the latest A/V receivers… Besides having the same charge that the A/V processor has, which is having those features as to be all things to all consumers, it has to (on top of all that, ) have the power to pull it off.
With all of that said, I consider an all out modern AVR to be somewhat of a MONSTER (And they do scare me) needing to pack all of that under one roof.
at the present time, I’ve got a 2 to 1 lifecycle happening with my system meaning I’m on my second AV processor since 2001 and my original amplification from that time without a hint of giving it up yet. so at least in my case, having separates has indeed been a cost-effective solution |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Aug 10, 2023 14:41:55 GMT -5
I can answer your question... And the answer is that... it depends... I obviously talk to a lot of people who have home theater systems... I am quite convinced that some people actually do notice things like the extra detail and more precise object localization you get with Dolby Atmos... And some people really do just seem to get personal satisfaction from knowing that they have the latest and greatest technology... Or they just like to impress their friends... or their kids... or the other guys on their favorite audio forum... And some people don't care much either way... And at least a few honestly don't hear the difference or hear it but it doesn't matter to them one way or the other... You also have the little matter of content... I saw Oppenheimer last week and, while the movie was great, I didn't think it got much benefit from Atmos... (I would have enjoyed it just as much in 5.1 or 7.1 .) But I've seen other movies where it seemed to make a significant difference... I've also seen movies where an excessively detailed and complex sound track was more of a distraction than an asset... (I'm old enough to remember a few stereo recordings with exaggerated "ping pong stereo effects" that were just plain annoying.) And I've seen lots of movies where I thought that better object localization could have made a huge difference... but the movie failed miserably to take advantage of it... (And we can hope that how well movies take advantage of the capabilities will continue to improve as time goes on.) Of course companies are in business to make money... One way to do that is to sell people replacements for products that wear out... Another way is to offer new products that actually work better than the ones they potentially replace... And, yes, another way is just to convince people that a new product will make them happy... Or even just convince them to be dissatisfied with the one they have now and to hope that they'll like a new one better.) MOST people I know bought their current 4k or 8k TV because it was bigger, or got a better picture, than the set it replaced... Only a few of them actually bought their current 4k or 8k TV because their old TV actually quit working. (And most people I know actually do find their new TV to be an improvement.) ............................. I agree. One ought to choose what best suits their needs. Personally, I don't see the need to pinpoint every single sound in 3D when watching a movie. What I question is how much incremental enjoyment do people get from each new "feature" that is released that requires more firmware updates or new technology or whatever. Are these new features really there to add a significant improvement to the viewer's experience, or is it just another ploy to make more money? It's like drug companies coming up with new diseases or afflictions to generate more revenues from people who now need it even though before they never realized they had an affliction. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Aug 10, 2023 14:52:25 GMT -5
I agree with what you're saying in the long term... but only to a point... and depending on your expectations. For example.... let's assume you have a disc with a Dolby Atmos sound track... Obviously, if you want height channels, you're going to want a system that supports Dolby Atmos. But, if you're satisfied with 5.1 or 7.1, it will play exactly the same in a system that only supports TrueHD. And, if you like stereo, it will also play just fine in stereo. (You're going to have to go back pretty far to find a system that flat out won't play it... or will really screw up when it tries to do so.) ...We live in a society where we have been convinced that we must always have "the latest and greatest"... Although your statement IS true, it doesn't tell the whole story. In the AV world, new audio and video decoding arrives at a dizzying rate. The available disc space for movies is continuously eaten up with ever more video storage (DVD to Blu-Ray to 4K to...), leaving an ever smaller portion of the available storage to include reverse-compatible audio formatting. Although a processor or AVR may still function, there is absolutely NO guarantee that the latest software will sound right. My friends and I have noticed repeatedly that "Dolby Atmos" soundtracks have terrible playback artifacts on the center (dialogue) channel when played back using older CODECs. So my friends' AVRs and processors still work, but just not quite right. So are the "latest and greatest" demands on hardware created by marketing, or by the demands of software? You can't buy the latest movie with the soundtrack formatted to the CODEC that your older hardware happens to support. And increasingly, there are fewer and fewer audio options on movie discs beyond the "latest and greatest" audio default. Now there ARE several ways to deal with this issue. Disc players that have the latest audio decoding built in are becoming FAR cheaper than buying an AVR or processor with such decoding. One could buy a relatively inexpensive disc player with its own volume control and run the analog (already decoded) outputs either into the AVR/processor or directly into the power amps. No volume control on the disc player? You'll need full analog (5.1, 7.1, etc.) inputs into the AVR or processor. But "offloading" audio processing to the disc player could, at least theoretically, save a LOT of money by extending the utility of the AVR or processor. |
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Post by monkumonku on Aug 10, 2023 14:53:12 GMT -5
I can answer your question... And the answer is that... it depends... I obviously talk to a lot of people who have home theater systems... I am quite convinced that some people actually do notice things like the extra detail and more precise object localization you get with Dolby Atmos... And some people really do just seem to get personal satisfaction from knowing that they have the latest and greatest technology... Or they just like to impress their friends... or their kids... or the other guys on their favorite audio forum... And some people don't care much either way... And at least a few honestly don't hear the difference or hear it but it doesn't matter to them one way or the other... You also have the little matter of content... I saw Oppenheimer last week and, while the movie was great, I didn't think it got much benefit from Atmos... (I would have enjoyed it just as much in 5.1 or 7.1 .) But I've seen other movies where it seemed to make a significant difference... I've also seen movies where an excessively detailed and complex sound track was more of a distraction than an asset... (I'm old enough to remember a few stereo recordings with exaggerated "ping pong stereo effects" that were just plain annoying.) And I've seen lots of movies where I thought that better object localization could have made a huge difference... but the movie failed miserably to take advantage of it... (And we can hope that how well movies take advantage of the capabilities will continue to improve as time goes on.) Of course companies are in business to make money... One way to do that is to sell people replacements for products that wear out... Another way is to offer new products that actually work better than the ones they potentially replace... And, yes, another way is just to convince people that a new product will make them happy... Or even just convince them to be dissatisfied with the one they have now and to hope that they'll like a new one better.) MOST people I know bought their current 4k or 8k TV because it was bigger, or got a better picture, than the set it replaced... Only a few of them actually bought their current 4k or 8k TV because their old TV actually quit working. (And most people I know actually do find their new TV to be an improvement.) I agree. One ought to choose what best suits their needs. Personally, I don't see the need to pinpoint every single sound in 3D when watching a movie. What I question is how much incremental enjoyment do people get from each new "feature" that is released that requires more firmware updates or new technology or whatever. Are these new features really there to add a significant improvement to the viewer's experience, or is it just another ploy to make more money? It's like drug companies coming up with new diseases or afflictions to generate more revenues from people who now need it even though before they never realized they had an affliction. Well it seems that "42" isn't the only answer to everything. We have to include "it depends" as well. But I agree. Everyone's tastes and preferences are different, no one size fits all. It just comes to a point of what the incremental rewards are. |
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