Adding/updating surround speakers

[ac2011]

Looking to expand the total number of speakers in my system, and wondering a couple of things about "best" type of speakers to use in various spots, as outlined below.


- System is my main TV (including streaming) watching area, not a dedicated movie room; carpeted, couple of windows, rear left has an opening to a stairwell (ceiling only about 7.5ft)
- Currently running 7.2 - "traditional" 5 speaker + front heights.
- I use the bookshelf speakers that match my LCR Boston speakers in the front height position (positioned slightly outside the left and right towers, toed in toward MLP)
- the Fluance bi-pole are used as side surrounds, placed pretty much 0" with MLP and about 1 - 1.5ft above seated head height
- Not sure it matters, but the subs are currently both in the front, either side of a propane fireplace console holding the center speaker (inside the left and right towers)
- I pre-wired the room for various future speaker addition spots - although, Atmos wasn't really a "thing" when I did this so no pre-wire in the ceiling (kind of a last resort to add in ceiling speakers in the "optimal" Atmos positioning)
- The Yamaha receiver is capable of 11 channel, when using external amplification (as one of my other recent threads notes, I'm looking toward updating the AVR, but would still be capable of at least 11 channel)


I want to add at least rear speakers to the mix. Rear wall is about 3ft behind MLP (with a window directly behind MLP) - any speaker would be wall mounted.

1. Should the rear surround simply be at the same height as the side surrounds currently are (ie. on wall in a slightly above seated head position), or should I lower both closer to ear height?
2. Would it be best to use another set of bipole speakers or direct radiating speakers? (Dolby recommends direct for basically all speakers, but with the back wall so close, wondering if bipole is the better way to go).
3. Would the Airmotiv A2+ (or similar like SVS Prime Elevation) be a better choice than either bipoles or regular direct radiators for both side and rear surround? (will likely replace the front heights with something like this too - maybe the Airmotiv A1?)

[LuisV]

I've always prefer my side and rear surrounds mounted 1 - 2' higher than ear height while in the seated position.  My current side surrounds are a Tri-Axial design; I prefer them to a direct radiating speakers as it provides a more diffused / expansive sound field... just my preference.   Prior to mounting the sides, I experimented with various heights by using boxes and various other items to find my preferred mounting height; at ear level, the sides were too easily localized... felt like they were beaming the sound into my ears.... simply my opinion.  Ideally, rear surrounds should be mounted at the same height as the sides; however, it's a general recommendation as not all rooms are purposely built and may have compromises. 

Based on room size, you may want to consider adding rear Atmos channels instead of rear surrounds.  I could be wrong, but more and more movies are coming with Atmos and not a native 7 channel bed layer mix; therefore, it would need to be up mixed by your processor / AVR.   This isn't necessary a bad thing, it's just not a native mix.

I'm in a similar position as you are in... I have an extra pair of height speakers that I'm trying to decide what would be best... rear Atmos or rear surrounds.   My rear wall is 5' 6" behind the MLP; however, I have a French door to contend with.  As rear surrounds, due to the doors, they would need to be mounted ~18" higher than the sides; however, if I ever wanted to add rear Atmos channels in the future, based on measurements, it would put the rear Atmos mounting locations within a foot or so of the rear surrounds, so my fear is smearing of the sound field as they would be mounted so close to each other.  This is why I'm considering to forgo rear surrounds and going with rear Atmos channels instead.

[markc]

Aug 9, 2023 9:44:33 GMT -5 ac2011 said:

1. Should the rear surround simply be at the same height as the side surrounds currently are (ie. on wall in a slightly above seated head position), or should I lower both closer to ear height?
2. Would it be best to use another set of bipole speakers or direct radiating speakers? (Dolby recommends direct for basically all speakers, but with the back wall so close, wondering if bipole is the better way to go).
3. Would the Airmotiv A2+ (or similar like SVS Prime Elevation) be a better choice than either bipoles or regular direct radiators for both side and rear surround? (will likely replace the front heights with something like this too - maybe the Airmotiv A1?)

Positional audio (by which I mean non Atmos) has been designed to be exactly that (positional) for many years and contemporary mixing of 7.1 properly distributes audio and creates phantom speakers everywhere in your room.
Sound rarely emanates from just one speaker like it used to, so I am convinced that the old diffused speakers are defunct, as per Dolby recommendations.
(I used to have Dipole surrounds and it was a revelation to swap them to direct radiators and my rear surrounds are only 1.2m behind me, side surrounds 1.9m away)

(Much like stereo usually has most sounds in both L & R speakers, varying the blend, for example, between 10% left/90% right to 90% left/10% right. 50/50 creates a phantom centre and I would swear that when listening to stereo music that my XMC-2 has gone faulty again (as they do!) and is sending audio to my centre speaker that I have, on many occasions, got up to feel the centre speaker cones to confirm they aren't moving)

I also lowered my surrounds to sitting ear height when I got my Atmos speakers, and to allow the ceiling speakers to generate "height" I think this is essential.

Finally - I echo LuisV regarding speaker position choice dilemmas although on one hand Luis likes diffusing of the surround discrete audio mix and then expresses fear over smearing the Atmos soundfield.
If you have 7 satellites and streaming is your main viewing modality then 5.1.2 should probably be the preferred layout over 7.1 as 5.1 Dolby Digital Plus +/- MAT Atmos is the most likely audio source for movies. There is not any 7.1 streaming from Netflix, Disney, Paramount, Prime etc (I think, but I am happy to be corrected)
If your viewing is disc originated (Blu-ray or UHD Blu-ray) then discrete 7.1 is common, with or without Atmos.

The upgrade path dilemma is 5.1.4 vs 7.1.2 - I went 7.1.2 and am very happy with this as my ceiling speakers would either have the rear heights to be too close to the back wall or the front and rear heights in an x.1.4 setup would be so close as to functionally be x.1.2 and so not worth it.