Streaming device question....

[cwmcobra]

My neighbor is signing up for Starlink and ditching his Direct TV that has infuriated him with their price shenanigans. So he wants to move to streaming and has no idea how to do that. He's not an audiophile or videophile. He has on old Plasma TV that works fine and has, for its time, a very nice picture that he would like to continue to use. He's not interested in 4K yet. I shared that he would need a streaming device to display programming from the streaming services that he signs up for. In doing some simple research, I found the range of devices from Roku to Apple TV 4K. We'll work together to select what appears best for his use case.

But that got me thinking...I'm an audiophile and videophile that has just recently dipped a toe into the streaming waters when I was finally able to install Starlink. We keep DISH TV for my wife, but I've been doing some streaming from Amazon Prime and found my system to be very capable in that regard with the new Internet. I stream using the interface in my Panasonic DP-UB420-K Bluray player. It seems to perform fine. The interface seems a bit clunky, but I think that's mostly in the Amazon Prime space.

So here's the question. Would there be any performance advantage for me to add an Apple TV 4K device to my system to manage streaming? Or would it only offer a simplified interface to access streaming content? Anything that affects data compression, audio/video codecs available, etc.? I love anything that improves performance but am OK with the interface that I have and probably wouldn't spend the extra money for such a device if that's the only benefit.

Cheers!

Chuck

[cawgijoe]

Oct 25, 2023 11:18:53 GMT -5 cwmcobra said:

My neighbor is signing up for Starlink and ditching his Direct TV that has infuriated him with their price shenanigans. So he wants to move to streaming and has no idea how to do that. He's not an audiophile or videophile. He has on old Plasma TV that works fine and has, for its time, a very nice picture that he would like to continue to use. He's not interested in 4K yet. I shared that he would need a streaming device to display programming from the streaming services that he signs up for. In doing some simple research, I found the range of devices from Roku to Apple TV 4K. We'll work together to select what appears best for his use case.

But that got me thinking...I'm an audiophile and videophile that has just recently dipped a toe into the streaming waters when I was finally able to install Starlink. We keep DISH TV for my wife, but I've been doing some streaming from Amazon Prime and found my system to be very capable in that regard with the new Internet. I stream using the interface in my Panasonic DP-UB420-K Bluray player. It seems to perform fine. The interface seems a bit clunky, but I think that's mostly in the Amazon Prime space.

So here's the question. Would there be any performance advantage for me to add an Apple TV 4K device to my system to manage streaming? Or would it only offer a simplified interface to access streaming content? Anything that affects data compression, audio/video codecs available, etc.? I love anything that improves performance but am OK with the interface that I have and probably wouldn't spend the extra money for such a device if that's the only benefit.

Cheers!

Chuck

For what it's worth, I don't like using the built in streaming apps on the TV or other device. I have found that the TV manufacturers don't keep up with firmware updates to their sets on a regular basis and especially after they are a few years old.
I like having a separate box that is kept updated and can also be replaced down the road when technology moves on.

As to the device, I have two Apple TV's, one 4K on the main system and an older 1080p on the bedroom TV. I also have a Roku on the TV in the basement. Both Roku and Apple work well. I prefer the Apple TV in terms of speed, GUI, and overall "feel". The performance of the Apple TV 4K is really good. There is nothing wrong with Roku though and their boxes are cheaper.

The problem with streaming however is the cost of the multiple services. They keep increasing. Just like cable or satellite. To save money, you would need to sign up for a service, watch what you want, and then cancel. Sign back up when the content you like comes back, rinse...repeat. Pain in the *bleep*. My daughter does that, I haven't found the time...maybe will be able to track it once I retire.

[marcl]

Oct 25, 2023 11:18:53 GMT -5 cwmcobra said:

My neighbor is signing up for Starlink and ditching his Direct TV that has infuriated him with their price shenanigans. So he wants to move to streaming and has no idea how to do that. He's not an audiophile or videophile. He has on old Plasma TV that works fine and has, for its time, a very nice picture that he would like to continue to use. He's not interested in 4K yet. I shared that he would need a streaming device to display programming from the streaming services that he signs up for. In doing some simple research, I found the range of devices from Roku to Apple TV 4K. We'll work together to select what appears best for his use case.

But that got me thinking...I'm an audiophile and videophile that has just recently dipped a toe into the streaming waters when I was finally able to install Starlink. We keep DISH TV for my wife, but I've been doing some streaming from Amazon Prime and found my system to be very capable in that regard with the new Internet. I stream using the interface in my Panasonic DP-UB420-K Bluray player. It seems to perform fine. The interface seems a bit clunky, but I think that's mostly in the Amazon Prime space.

So here's the question. Would there be any performance advantage for me to add an Apple TV 4K device to my system to manage streaming? Or would it only offer a simplified interface to access streaming content? Anything that affects data compression, audio/video codecs available, etc.? I love anything that improves performance but am OK with the interface that I have and probably wouldn't spend the extra money for such a device if that's the only benefit.

Cheers!

Chuck

Since I dropped Dish several years ago I've been using AppleTV exclusively ... now with the latest 4K version.  I tried the Netflix and MAX apps in my LG CX TV and they work.  The real question that's difficult to quantify (lots of people have opinions, of course) is what is the highest quality streaming source?  Is it exactly the same if you use the TV MAX app vs the one in the AppleTV4K?  And what about using the Prime app in the AppleTV4K and getting MAX through the Prime subscription?

I just have one quantified example ...  Last season of Game of Thrones started a few years ago and the sound through the HBO app on the AppleTV4K was noticeably compressed and weak sounding.  So I got the trial for HBO through Prime, and the difference was quite audible ... and measurable.  I used REW and looked at dynamic range and frequency response and found the dynamics of the AppleTV HBO app were compressed, highs rolled off a bit and the overall volume was down about 5db.  So I dropped HBO from the Apple app and subscribed through Prime ... until Prime dropped HBO a couple years ago so I had to go back.  And BTW ... now Prime offers MAX ... not sure if I can do a similar test to see if their stream is better.

I like the interface on the AppleTV4K and it's nice having all my sources in one place.   If you find any quantifiable analysis of differences in video or audio quality please share :-)

[cawgijoe]

Oct 25, 2023 11:49:40 GMT -5 marcl said:

Oct 25, 2023 11:18:53 GMT -5 cwmcobra said:

My neighbor is signing up for Starlink and ditching his Direct TV that has infuriated him with their price shenanigans. So he wants to move to streaming and has no idea how to do that. He's not an audiophile or videophile. He has on old Plasma TV that works fine and has, for its time, a very nice picture that he would like to continue to use. He's not interested in 4K yet. I shared that he would need a streaming device to display programming from the streaming services that he signs up for. In doing some simple research, I found the range of devices from Roku to Apple TV 4K. We'll work together to select what appears best for his use case.

But that got me thinking...I'm an audiophile and videophile that has just recently dipped a toe into the streaming waters when I was finally able to install Starlink. We keep DISH TV for my wife, but I've been doing some streaming from Amazon Prime and found my system to be very capable in that regard with the new Internet. I stream using the interface in my Panasonic DP-UB420-K Bluray player. It seems to perform fine. The interface seems a bit clunky, but I think that's mostly in the Amazon Prime space.

So here's the question. Would there be any performance advantage for me to add an Apple TV 4K device to my system to manage streaming? Or would it only offer a simplified interface to access streaming content? Anything that affects data compression, audio/video codecs available, etc.? I love anything that improves performance but am OK with the interface that I have and probably wouldn't spend the extra money for such a device if that's the only benefit.

Cheers!

Chuck

Since I dropped Dish several years ago I've been using AppleTV exclusively ... now with the latest 4K version.  I tried the Netflix and MAX apps in my LG CX TV and they work.  The real question that's difficult to quantify (lots of people have opinions, of course) is what is the highest quality streaming source?  Is it exactly the same if you use the TV MAX app vs the one in the AppleTV4K?  And what about using the Prime app in the AppleTV4K and getting MAX through the Prime subscription?

I just have one quantified example ...  Last season of Game of Thrones started a few years ago and the sound through the HBO app on the AppleTV4K was noticeably compressed and weak sounding.  So I got the trial for HBO through Prime, and the difference was quite audible ... and measurable.  I used REW and looked at dynamic range and frequency response and found the dynamics of the AppleTV HBO app were compressed, highs rolled off a bit and the overall volume was down about 5db.  So I dropped HBO from the Apple app and subscribed through Prime ... until Prime dropped HBO a couple years ago so I had to go back.  And BTW ... now Prime offers MAX ... not sure if I can do a similar test to see if their stream is better.

I like the interface on the AppleTV4K and it's nice having all my sources in one place.   If you find any quantifiable analysis of differences in video or audio quality please share :-)

I'm planning on dropping Directv next year when I retire and move into a new home. Do you have a "cable or satellite" streaming replacement service such as Youtube TV?

I need to figure out what I'm going to subscribe to when I "cut the cord".

I will have a rooftop antenna for locals and plan to add an antenna DVR to it.

Any suggestions,guidance,tips, are greatly appreciated.

[KeithL]

You bring up an interesting question... and I've never seen anyone even try to quantify that.

With lossless audio streaming you can ask "lossless or not" - and even lossy streaming services usually specify a quality level.
However, with video streams, the question is a lot more complex, and the audio that is multiplexed onto a video stream MAY be equally tricksy.
For example most video streaming services are known - or assumed - to adjust their compression and frame rates to fit available bandwidth.
And, of course, even that is nowhere as simple as "how fast your Internet connection is"...
You could see a lower quality picture on a slower Internet connection...
Or you could see a lower quality picture at a busy time of day...
Or you could see a lower quality picture if a lot of people are watching that new movie at the same time...
Or it's also possible that the picture could be better with that popular movie or sporting event - if they've allocated more server bandwidth to it...
And, if they use a cache service, like Akamai, the quality could actually improve when the cache servers are at full capacity...
And, since the audio stream shares bandwidth with the video stream, it could be affected the same way.

And we also know that different streaming services specifically prefer different channel mixes (like four height channels in Atmos).
And, of course, even for a given service, the APP on one device may work better than the APP on a different device... and offer different options.

However, this sort of thing is incredibly complex to quantify, and I suspect that "nobody would like what they found out".
It would be VERY interesting to compare the same movie, on different services, in terms of frame rate, dropped frames, and compression ratio...
(And all of those things could be quantified with the proper software applied to an h.265 video signal...)
But nobody really wants to spend months testing, and publish a three-page spreadsheet, when the results may change tomorrow anyway.
(And I sort of suspect that many people would find that the results left them... less than totally satisfied... )

I'll also admit to being one of those people who finds that a bad user interface on a streamer is more annoying than slightly lower quality.
(Since I'm watching the movie, but not keeping it, it just doesn't seem quite as important.)

Oct 25, 2023 11:49:40 GMT -5 marcl said:

Oct 25, 2023 11:18:53 GMT -5 cwmcobra said:

My neighbor is signing up for Starlink and ditching his Direct TV that has infuriated him with their price shenanigans. So he wants to move to streaming and has no idea how to do that. He's not an audiophile or videophile. He has on old Plasma TV that works fine and has, for its time, a very nice picture that he would like to continue to use. He's not interested in 4K yet. I shared that he would need a streaming device to display programming from the streaming services that he signs up for. In doing some simple research, I found the range of devices from Roku to Apple TV 4K. We'll work together to select what appears best for his use case.

But that got me thinking...I'm an audiophile and videophile that has just recently dipped a toe into the streaming waters when I was finally able to install Starlink. We keep DISH TV for my wife, but I've been doing some streaming from Amazon Prime and found my system to be very capable in that regard with the new Internet. I stream using the interface in my Panasonic DP-UB420-K Bluray player. It seems to perform fine. The interface seems a bit clunky, but I think that's mostly in the Amazon Prime space.

So here's the question. Would there be any performance advantage for me to add an Apple TV 4K device to my system to manage streaming? Or would it only offer a simplified interface to access streaming content? Anything that affects data compression, audio/video codecs available, etc.? I love anything that improves performance but am OK with the interface that I have and probably wouldn't spend the extra money for such a device if that's the only benefit.

Cheers!

Chuck

Since I dropped Dish several years ago I've been using AppleTV exclusively ... now with the latest 4K version.  I tried the Netflix and MAX apps in my LG CX TV and they work.  The real question that's difficult to quantify (lots of people have opinions, of course) is what is the highest quality streaming source?  Is it exactly the same if you use the TV MAX app vs the one in the AppleTV4K?  And what about using the Prime app in the AppleTV4K and getting MAX through the Prime subscription?

I just have one quantified example ...  Last season of Game of Thrones started a few years ago and the sound through the HBO app on the AppleTV4K was noticeably compressed and weak sounding.  So I got the trial for HBO through Prime, and the difference was quite audible ... and measurable.  I used REW and looked at dynamic range and frequency response and found the dynamics of the AppleTV HBO app were compressed, highs rolled off a bit and the overall volume was down about 5db.  So I dropped HBO from the Apple app and subscribed through Prime ... until Prime dropped HBO a couple years ago so I had to go back.  And BTW ... now Prime offers MAX ... not sure if I can do a similar test to see if their stream is better.

I like the interface on the AppleTV4K and it's nice having all my sources in one place.   If you find any quantifiable analysis of differences in video or audio quality please share :-)

[LuisV]

Hey Chuck... hope all is well.

I have the NVidia Shield (2019 version) in my HT room and the ATV 4k (latest gen) in the livening room. We're head deep in the Apple ecosystem, so the ATV 4k is easier to use by the rest of the family. In terms of 4k content, folks may lean one way over the other, but to be honest, both streamers look great on my OLED TVs. That being said, the ATV 4k will not pass through all audio formats, therefore, it's one of my main reasonings for having the Shield in the HT room. The ATV also has issues with certain local 4k content via Plex, the Shield plays anything that I've thrown at it without issue. The ATV UI feels faster than the Shield's; however, it was difficult for me to determine which had the better picture.

I'm not a fan of the "smart" features or apps that come with TVs or BR player apps as they usually lag behind in features / functionality. To weed out any potential wireless streaming issues, I hardwire all devices, so from that perspective, I prefer a separate streamer as not all TVs have an ethernet connection; plus I can throw the streamer in my bag and take it along with me when I travel for work.

I purchased a Chromecast with Google TV along with an Ethernet adapter for my parents and after 2 years of use, they have had zero complaints with it's performance on their OLED / soundbar combo.

store.google.com/us/product/chromecast_google_tv?hl=en-US&pli=1

[marcl]

Oct 25, 2023 13:38:48 GMT -5 cawgijoe said:

Oct 25, 2023 11:49:40 GMT -5 marcl said:

Since I dropped Dish several years ago I've been using AppleTV exclusively ... now with the latest 4K version.  I tried the Netflix and MAX apps in my LG CX TV and they work.  The real question that's difficult to quantify (lots of people have opinions, of course) is what is the highest quality streaming source?  Is it exactly the same if you use the TV MAX app vs the one in the AppleTV4K?  And what about using the Prime app in the AppleTV4K and getting MAX through the Prime subscription?

I just have one quantified example ...  Last season of Game of Thrones started a few years ago and the sound through the HBO app on the AppleTV4K was noticeably compressed and weak sounding.  So I got the trial for HBO through Prime, and the difference was quite audible ... and measurable.  I used REW and looked at dynamic range and frequency response and found the dynamics of the AppleTV HBO app were compressed, highs rolled off a bit and the overall volume was down about 5db.  So I dropped HBO from the Apple app and subscribed through Prime ... until Prime dropped HBO a couple years ago so I had to go back.  And BTW ... now Prime offers MAX ... not sure if I can do a similar test to see if their stream is better.

I like the interface on the AppleTV4K and it's nice having all my sources in one place.   If you find any quantifiable analysis of differences in video or audio quality please share :-)

I'm planning on dropping Directv next year when I retire and move into a new home. Do you have a "cable or satellite" streaming replacement service such as Youtube TV?

I need to figure out what I'm going to subscribe to when I "cut the cord".

I will have a rooftop antenna for locals and plan to add an antenna DVR to it.

Any suggestions,guidance,tips, are greatly appreciated.

No other services.  I have a digital antenna connected to the TV that receives most local stations but in 7 years we've only watched a couple World Cup games and some national news events.  Really all we use is Netflix, Prime, MAX, AppleTV+ ... occasionally add MHz, Britbox or Sundance to Prime then cancel when we're done a particular program.

Sometimes when we travel we watch cable TV in a hotel and it's so torturous we turn it off.  

[marcl]

Oct 25, 2023 13:56:27 GMT -5 KeithL said:

You bring up an interesting question... and I've never seen anyone even try to quantify that.

With lossless audio streaming you can ask "lossless or not" - and even lossy streaming services usually specify a quality level.
However, with video streams, the question is a lot more complex, and the audio that is multiplexed onto a video stream MAY be equally tricksy.
For example most video streaming services are known - or assumed - to adjust their compression and frame rates to fit available bandwidth.
And, of course, even that is nowhere as simple as "how fast your Internet connection is"...
You could see a lower quality picture on a slower Internet connection...
Or you could see a lower quality picture at a busy time of day...
Or you could see a lower quality picture if a lot of people are watching that new movie at the same time...
Or it's also possible that the picture could be better with that popular movie or sporting event - if they've allocated more server bandwidth to it...
And, if they use a cache service, like Akamai, the quality could actually improve when the cache servers are at full capacity...
And, since the audio stream shares bandwidth with the video stream, it could be affected the same way.

And we also know that different streaming services specifically prefer different channel mixes (like four height channels in Atmos).
And, of course, even for a given service, the APP on one device may work better than the APP on a different device... and offer different options.

However, this sort of thing is incredibly complex to quantify, and I suspect that "nobody would like what they found out".
It would be VERY interesting to compare the same movie, on different services, in terms of frame rate, dropped frames, and compression ratio...
(And all of those things could be quantified with the proper software applied to an h.265 video signal...)
But nobody really wants to spend months testing, and publish a three-page spreadsheet, when the results may change tomorrow anyway.
(And I sort of suspect that many people would find that the results left them... less than totally satisfied... )

I'll also admit to being one of those people who finds that a bad user interface on a streamer is more annoying than slightly lower quality.
(Since I'm watching the movie, but not keeping it, it just doesn't seem quite as important.)

Oct 25, 2023 11:49:40 GMT -5 marcl said:

Since I dropped Dish several years ago I've been using AppleTV exclusively ... now with the latest 4K version.  I tried the Netflix and MAX apps in my LG CX TV and they work.  The real question that's difficult to quantify (lots of people have opinions, of course) is what is the highest quality streaming source?  Is it exactly the same if you use the TV MAX app vs the one in the AppleTV4K?  And what about using the Prime app in the AppleTV4K and getting MAX through the Prime subscription?

I just have one quantified example ...  Last season of Game of Thrones started a few years ago and the sound through the HBO app on the AppleTV4K was noticeably compressed and weak sounding.  So I got the trial for HBO through Prime, and the difference was quite audible ... and measurable.  I used REW and looked at dynamic range and frequency response and found the dynamics of the AppleTV HBO app were compressed, highs rolled off a bit and the overall volume was down about 5db.  So I dropped HBO from the Apple app and subscribed through Prime ... until Prime dropped HBO a couple years ago so I had to go back.  And BTW ... now Prime offers MAX ... not sure if I can do a similar test to see if their stream is better.

I like the interface on the AppleTV4K and it's nice having all my sources in one place.   If you find any quantifiable analysis of differences in video or audio quality please share :-)

For sure ...

So like past two nights we've been watching The Changeling on AppleTV+ ... yeah Dolby Vision, 4K ... but posterization in dark scenes?  WTF?

When I tried to quantify the audio issue with HBO I used the RTA in REW and played a few seconds of several scenes from both sources and then looked at the stored response.  I could clearly see the high frequency rolloff, compressed peaks and overall lower volume from the AppleTV HBO app.

The only streaming audio I do is Apple Music and I have it set to Lossless on the AppleTV 4K .... but I have done comparisons of streamed Atmos music with the same album purchased and downloaded as a MKV and the difference is pretty obvious in dynamics, imaging and clarity.   Seam Olive (Harman Fellow) has done more quantitative analysis, with similar results. 

[cwmcobra]

Thanks, guys, for your thoughts. Everything in the theater is hardwired, so I think I'm always getting the best available bandwidth from the internet. I think for the few movies that I stream (most stuff my wife will enjoy), I'll just stick with the BRP as the interface. For the stuff I like, I have lots of physical media to enjoy!

[LuisV]

Oct 25, 2023 17:03:13 GMT -5 cwmcobra said:

Thanks, guys, for your thoughts. Everything in the theater is hardwired, so I think I'm always getting the best available bandwidth from the internet. I think for the few movies that I stream (most stuff my wife will enjoy), I'll just stick with the BRP as the interface. For the stuff I like, I have lots of physical media to enjoy!

View Attachment

Nothing beats physical media!!

[AudioHTIT]

How you subscribe to a service can affect the bitrate as well. I haven’t tested it, but read that for instance subscribing to Paramount+ as an TV+ channel, gives you a higher bitrate signal than subscribing through the Paramount app. The difference is attributed to Apple’s servers. TV+ channels are also easier to start and stop monthly as needed, but you loose the slight cost benefit of paying annually if that’s desired, which is again offset if you start and stop. It’s quite a dance, that we may start doing as there are services we only use when new material or seasons come along. The device you stream with also determines the quality of the experience as well, as some get faster access to new features and bug fixes. TV and Roku both seem to get them reasonably quickly, though I’ve only used TV. 

Edit: We also use OTA and get a high quality signal from all of thenSacramento/Stockton stations, now augmented with a Tablo device for pause/rew/ffwd & DVR functions.

[cawgijoe]

Oct 25, 2023 15:30:14 GMT -5 marcl said:

Oct 25, 2023 13:38:48 GMT -5 cawgijoe said:

I'm planning on dropping Directv next year when I retire and move into a new home. Do you have a "cable or satellite" streaming replacement service such as Youtube TV?

I need to figure out what I'm going to subscribe to when I "cut the cord".

I will have a rooftop antenna for locals and plan to add an antenna DVR to it.

Any suggestions,guidance,tips, are greatly appreciated.

No other services.  I have a digital antenna connected to the TV that receives most local stations but in 7 years we've only watched a couple World Cup games and some national news events.  Really all we use is Netflix, Prime, MAX, AppleTV+ ... occasionally add MHz, Britbox or Sundance to Prime then cancel when we're done a particular program.

Sometimes when we travel we watch cable TV in a hotel and it's so torturous we turn it off.  

Thanks. yeah, it's going to be interesting testing out what works for us and what doesn't. Currently I do watch the local channels off the antenna instead of DTV mainly because the picture quality is better OTA. It also comes in handy when Directv is affected by snow or rain fade. Winegard antenna has been up for 33 years now.

I do like sports. so that becomes an issue. I don't really watch football anymore, but I am a Nationals baseball fan and also will watch the Capitals. Streaming sports can get complicated.

I'm also concerned about streaming service PQ and SQ. It's hard to find information on what the picture quality is of the streaming services. There appears to be a lack of 4K contrent also.

I may end up starting with Youtube TV...$73 per month...Netflix $23 per month (price increase)...Apple TV+...(using Apple One...$19.99)....get Hulu, Disney+, "free" with Verizon cell phone service....$116 per month....compare that to the same services I have now but replace Youtube with Directv at around $120 per month with a $30 discount....so, $47 or so savings per month.

This stuff adds up quick!

If I could remove Youtube TV, that would really be a savings....once I retire, I should be able to calculate all this out...

[LuisV]

Oct 25, 2023 13:38:48 GMT -5 cawgijoe said:

Oct 25, 2023 11:49:40 GMT -5 marcl said:

Since I dropped Dish several years ago I've been using AppleTV exclusively ... now with the latest 4K version.  I tried the Netflix and MAX apps in my LG CX TV and they work.  The real question that's difficult to quantify (lots of people have opinions, of course) is what is the highest quality streaming source?  Is it exactly the same if you use the TV MAX app vs the one in the AppleTV4K?  And what about using the Prime app in the AppleTV4K and getting MAX through the Prime subscription?

I just have one quantified example ...  Last season of Game of Thrones started a few years ago and the sound through the HBO app on the AppleTV4K was noticeably compressed and weak sounding.  So I got the trial for HBO through Prime, and the difference was quite audible ... and measurable.  I used REW and looked at dynamic range and frequency response and found the dynamics of the AppleTV HBO app were compressed, highs rolled off a bit and the overall volume was down about 5db.  So I dropped HBO from the Apple app and subscribed through Prime ... until Prime dropped HBO a couple years ago so I had to go back.  And BTW ... now Prime offers MAX ... not sure if I can do a similar test to see if their stream is better.

I like the interface on the AppleTV4K and it's nice having all my sources in one place.   If you find any quantifiable analysis of differences in video or audio quality please share :-)

I'm planning on dropping Directv next year when I retire and move into a new home. Do you have a "cable or satellite" streaming replacement service such as Youtube TV?

I need to figure out what I'm going to subscribe to when I "cut the cord".

I will have a rooftop antenna for locals and plan to add an antenna DVR to it.

Any suggestions,guidance,tips, are greatly appreciated.

I cut the "cable TV cord" decades ago and haven't missed their nonsense, expense nor lack luster service.

Prior to moving 4 years ago, I had a HDHomeRun and it was a great OTA TV channel "streamer" for my purposes.  I used Plex to provide DVR, TV Guide, etc. functionality; Plex runs as a docker on my NAS.   Via Plex I could stream TV on any of my devices, Phone, tablet, PC, Nvidia Shield, etc., within or outside of my home, so yes, it was extremely convenient when we were between states. 

We used to subscribe to Sling; however, after a short period of time, we found that we didn't watch half of the available channels; therefore, we eventually dropped it.

www.sling.com/

There are various apps that provide free content... below are a few examples:

    tubitv.com/live
    www.freetv.com/browse/home/?lang=en
    pluto.tv/en/live-tv/5812bcc8237a6ff45d16c407

Plex along with Plex Pass offers a ton of content as well; I've been a Plex Pass member for years now; license goes on sale for time to time:

www.plex.tv/tv/

That being said... if you don't subscribe to something like YouTubeTV or Sling, without a doubt, the first month or so will be a little clunky as you need to go from app to app to watch various content; however, you'll eventually get used to it and will remember what content is where.  

Fast forward to today, we only subscribe to Netflix, Amazon Prime and watch local news for free via their apps and when needed, we'll subscribe to the Weather Channel for insight during hurricane season.  When a show peaks our interest, we'll subscribe to Hulu, HBO, AppleTV, etc.; however, for the most part, we're pretty set with minimal cost.   

[tropicallutefisk]

Oct 25, 2023 15:30:14 GMT -5 marcl said:

Oct 25, 2023 13:38:48 GMT -5 cawgijoe said:

I'm planning on dropping Directv next year when I retire and move into a new home. Do you have a "cable or satellite" streaming replacement service such as Youtube TV?

I need to figure out what I'm going to subscribe to when I "cut the cord".

I will have a rooftop antenna for locals and plan to add an antenna DVR to it.

Any suggestions,guidance,tips, are greatly appreciated.

No other services.  I have a digital antenna connected to the TV that receives most local stations but in 7 years we've only watched a couple World Cup games and some national news events.  Really all we use is Netflix, Prime, MAX, AppleTV+ ... occasionally add MHz, Britbox or Sundance to Prime then cancel when we're done a particular program.

Sometimes when we travel we watch cable TV in a hotel and it's so torturous we turn it off.  

"Sometimes when we travel we watch cable TV in a hotel and it's so torturous we turn it off. " 
I travel a a fair amount for business and pleasure and you are correct. Hotel cable is horrendous. Tons of crud I don't want to watch and navigating the channels is torture. For those reasons, I have a travel Roku. In a minute I can have it plugged into the hotel TV and it even has all our subscribed channels on it along with where we are at with series we are watching. 

[marcl]

Oct 26, 2023 9:30:38 GMT -5 tropicallutefisk said:

Oct 25, 2023 15:30:14 GMT -5 marcl said:

No other services.  I have a digital antenna connected to the TV that receives most local stations but in 7 years we've only watched a couple World Cup games and some national news events.  Really all we use is Netflix, Prime, MAX, AppleTV+ ... occasionally add MHz, Britbox or Sundance to Prime then cancel when we're done a particular program.

Sometimes when we travel we watch cable TV in a hotel and it's so torturous we turn it off.  

"Sometimes when we travel we watch cable TV in a hotel and it's so torturous we turn it off. " 
I travel a a fair amount for business and pleasure and you are correct. Hotel cable is horrendous. Tons of crud I don't want to watch and navigating the channels is torture. For those reasons, I have a travel Roku. In a minute I can have it plugged into the hotel TV and it even has all our subscribed channels on it along with where we are at with series we are watching. 

When I traveled for work from 2006 to 2015 I used a Slingbox.  I had Dish at home an it worked great.  Of course I had to do some tricks sometimes to get an HDMI connection from my laptop to the big TV in the room ... sometimes unplugging the TV from its network or popping a side panel.  Pretty cool watching stuff from the Sling DVR from India!

Most torturous thing is 10min program/5min commercial cycle, then recap and preview ... almost no actual program in an hour.

[Zombie]

Currently I pay for YouTube TV, Netflix and Disney +. Amazon Prime I get through the subscription. My wife occasionally watches free Samsung TV Plus. Years ago I had DTV. While I was satisfied with their programming the prices just spun out of control. I also had Spectrum cable and internet. I dropped them after 6 months and continuing issues with their internet going out for hours. I use AT&T Fiber and it’s been great. Fast and very reliable. Soooo, I current pay about $100 for all my TV/movie services. Internet is about $50. I’m quite satisfied with this set-up.  I’m not using any streaming device, just the apps on my Samsungs. 

[KeithL]

You're unlikely to EVER see a streaming service commit to "picture quality"... whatever even that means...

First of all it's GOING to vary based on things like Internet connection speed and server load.
And note that, whatever "Internet speed you're paying for", the fine print says that it's an UPPER LIMIT and NOT a minimum.
And, of course, regardless of how fast your connection is, the speed will be limited by the servers your content is coming from.
(There's actually a LOT more involved since, among other things, the content you're watching is probably being cached along the way too.)

And, of course, different Apps, and different streaming devices, also offer different options, even with the same streaming source.
And, while all streaming content is compressed (and so are Blu-Ray discs), the service has control over that...
So, for example, they may offer popular sports events at higher quality by allocating more bandwidth, or allocate less bandwidth for "old late night movies".
Unfortunately this means that even an honest attempt to rate and compare them will vary by region, carrier, content, and even time of day.

Also remember that "picture quality" depends on several things...
So, for example, a 4k picture with heavy compression COULD look worse than a 1080p picture with less compression. 
And a 1080p source, upscaled by your 4k TV, could look better than that same video upscaled by your streaming provider (so they can offer it as "4k content".)
And the quality and type of the original content also obviously matter (some things just don't look particular better at higher resolution).

This all means that it's all sort of a crap shoot...
And a matter of what looks best, with the devices you have, and the service you use, in your area...

I recall being unhappy that a certain scene in one of the Transformers movies had a lot of background noise when I first watched it on Amazon Prime streaming...
But, when it finally came out on 4k Blu-Ray, and I bought it... that same scene was just as noisy... so apparently it was a slight problem with the the original video.
I also find that, in particular, some old SD content seems to look really awful when the streaming service upscales it.

Oct 26, 2023 7:37:27 GMT -5 cawgijoe said:

Oct 25, 2023 15:30:14 GMT -5 marcl said:

No other services.  I have a digital antenna connected to the TV that receives most local stations but in 7 years we've only watched a couple World Cup games and some national news events.  Really all we use is Netflix, Prime, MAX, AppleTV+ ... occasionally add MHz, Britbox or Sundance to Prime then cancel when we're done a particular program.

Sometimes when we travel we watch cable TV in a hotel and it's so torturous we turn it off.  

Thanks. yeah, it's going to be interesting testing out what works for us and what doesn't. Currently I do watch the local channels off the antenna instead of DTV mainly because the picture quality is better OTA. It also comes in handy when Directv is affected by snow or rain fade. Winegard antenna has been up for 33 years now.

I do like sports. so that becomes an issue. I don't really watch football anymore, but I am a Nationals baseball fan and also will watch the Capitals. Streaming sports can get complicated.

I'm also concerned about streaming service PQ and SQ. It's hard to find information on what the picture quality is of the streaming services. There appears to be a lack of 4K contrent also.

I may end up starting with Youtube TV...$73 per month...Netflix $23 per month (price increase)...Apple TV+...(using Apple One...$19.99)....get Hulu, Disney+, "free" with Verizon cell phone service....$116 per month....compare that to the same services I have now but replace Youtube with Directv at around $120 per month with a $30 discount....so, $47 or so savings per month.

This stuff adds up quick!

If I could remove Youtube TV, that would really be a savings....once I retire, I should be able to calculate all this out...

[KeithL]

The short answer is that an AppleTV MIGHT deliver better audio or video quality than the App in your TV or the App in your Blu-Ray player.
However there are too many variables to say with certainty whether that would be the case or not... and, if so, with which streaming services.
The AppleTV definitely offers SOME better quality options than most other alternatives (like Atmos support with certain streaming services). 
(At a minimum it would give you more options... and so improve your odds.)

Oct 25, 2023 11:18:53 GMT -5 cwmcobra said:

My neighbor is signing up for Starlink and ditching his Direct TV that has infuriated him with their price shenanigans. So he wants to move to streaming and has no idea how to do that. He's not an audiophile or videophile. He has on old Plasma TV that works fine and has, for its time, a very nice picture that he would like to continue to use. He's not interested in 4K yet. I shared that he would need a streaming device to display programming from the streaming services that he signs up for. In doing some simple research, I found the range of devices from Roku to Apple TV 4K. We'll work together to select what appears best for his use case.

But that got me thinking...I'm an audiophile and videophile that has just recently dipped a toe into the streaming waters when I was finally able to install Starlink. We keep DISH TV for my wife, but I've been doing some streaming from Amazon Prime and found my system to be very capable in that regard with the new Internet. I stream using the interface in my Panasonic DP-UB420-K Bluray player. It seems to perform fine. The interface seems a bit clunky, but I think that's mostly in the Amazon Prime space.

So here's the question. Would there be any performance advantage for me to add an Apple TV 4K device to my system to manage streaming? Or would it only offer a simplified interface to access streaming content? Anything that affects data compression, audio/video codecs available, etc.? I love anything that improves performance but am OK with the interface that I have and probably wouldn't spend the extra money for such a device if that's the only benefit.

Cheers!

Chuck