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Post by jacksonranch on Nov 10, 2023 8:40:24 GMT -5
All
My room is 12W x 24Lx 8H and my use case is home theater mostly with occasional streaming. I am upgrading to T3+ left and right, B2+ as surrounds and the MR1 receiver.
The C3+ is quite large but will squeeze into my room, while the C2+ is a much better fit size wise. Sound wise how do they compare? I know the importance of the center channel and don't want to under-buy the center. I cannot seem to find reviews for Emotiva center speakers other than general discussions about how most center speakers are designed wrong (Erin).
Any feedback is welcome.
JJ
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 10, 2023 9:34:51 GMT -5
All
My room is 12W x 24Lx 8H and my use case is home theater mostly with occasional streaming. I am upgrading to T3+ left and right, B2+ as surrounds and the MR1 receiver.
The C3+ is quite large but will squeeze into my room, while the C2+ is a much better fit size wise. Sound wise how do they compare? I know the importance of the center channel and don't want to under-buy the center. I cannot seem to find reviews for Emotiva center speakers other than general discussions about how most center speakers are designed wrong (Erin).
Any feedback is welcome.
JJ
I would use the same speakers for LCR and surrounds. I would use B2+ for all speakers before I would use different speakers for the L&R, C, and surrounds. At minimum, LCR should be the same speakers, with the same drivers and crossovers, with the drivers in a vertical placement like any of the T series. Then, the surrounds should be the same speakers. Unfortunately, this scenario usually results in speakers, LCR vs Surrounds, that have different crossover frequencies and different drivers. None of the C series would do for me, especially the C3. The best center speaker is a speaker the same as L&R. A match is as important as other parameters.Personally, if I were to use Emotiva speakers, I would use the same T series for LCR and Surrounds. Pick a size appropriate for your room. Run the surrounds full range. Run the LCR full range for music. Run the LCR full range or cross to Subs per bass requirements of a movie. The T series have a built-in stand  . The B2+ needs a stand. The footprints of either are not radically different. |
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Post by jacksonranch on Nov 10, 2023 10:09:14 GMT -5
I like the three tower approach for LCR and my room can handle the three T2+ size wise. Thx.
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geebo
Emo VIPs 
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Post by geebo on Nov 10, 2023 10:36:56 GMT -5
All My room is 12W x 24Lx 8H and my use case is home theater mostly with occasional streaming. I am upgrading to T3+ left and right, B2+ as surrounds and the MR1 receiver. The C3+ is quite large but will squeeze into my room, while the C2+ is a much better fit size wise. Sound wise how do they compare? I know the importance of the center channel and don't want to under-buy the center. I cannot seem to find reviews for Emotiva center speakers other than general discussions about how most center speakers are designed wrong (Erin).
Any feedback is welcome. JJ
I have T2's and a C2 in a similarly sized room and they match very nicely. I would go by how far you sit from the center channel. We are about 9' or 10' from the screen but if that distance was more like 15' or so then I would consider the C3+. |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Nov 10, 2023 10:47:20 GMT -5
I'm just going to throw in a few comments here... If you have room I would definitely prefer three identical speakers. (The obvious catch being that most people don't have room for three towers.) A center channel speaker is designed to match your main speakers and to provide an optimal center image when positioned horizontally. NOTE that the C3+ is REALLY REALLY BIG and also quite heavy. It's an awesome center channel speaker for a big room... but it takes up a lot of space... and needs a big strong shelf (or a PAIR of normal stands). The C3+ will also work better if you're at least several feet away from it (I don't think I'd want to sit three or four feet in front of it... that's a bit too close.) NOTE, however, that tower speakers are NOT designed to be used as center channel speakers laying on their side. Towers are really designed to be positioned vertically and the imaging will not be as precise if you lay them down. (If you DO want want to use a pair of towers for your main L & R, and lay them down, then they should be symmetrical. (Either "both tweeters towards the outside" or "both tweeters towards the inside".) A single tower, laying on its side, in the center, will not have perfect symmetry, and will not deliver an optimal "center image". (So, in that situation, you'd still be better off with a center channel speaker, instead of a third identical tower speaker on its side in the middle .) All My room is 12W x 24Lx 8H and my use case is home theater mostly with occasional streaming. I am upgrading to T3+ left and right, B2+ as surrounds and the MR1 receiver. The C3+ is quite large but will squeeze into my room, while the C2+ is a much better fit size wise. Sound wise how do they compare? I know the importance of the center channel and don't want to under-buy the center. I cannot seem to find reviews for Emotiva center speakers other than general discussions about how most center speakers are designed wrong (Erin).
Any feedback is welcome. JJ
I would use the same speakers for LCR and surrounds. I would use B2+ for all speakers before I would use different speakers for the L&R, C, and surrounds. At minimum, LCR should be the same speakers, with the same drivers and crossovers, with the drivers in a vertical placement like any of the T series. Then, the surrounds should be the same speakers. Unfortunately, this scenario usually results in speakers, LCR vs Surrounds, that have different crossover frequencies and different drivers. None of the C series would do for me, especially the C3. The best center speaker is a speaker the same as L&R. A match is as important as other parameters.Personally, if I were to use Emotiva speakers, I would use the same T series for LCR and Surrounds. Pick a size appropriate for your room. Run the surrounds full range. Run the LCR full range for music. Run the LCR full range or cross to Subs per bass requirements of a movie. The T series have a built-in stand . The B2+ needs a stand. The footprints of either are not radically different. |
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 10, 2023 11:49:47 GMT -5
I'm just going to throw in a few comments here... If you have room I would definitely prefer three identical speakers. (The obvious catch being that most people don't have room for three towers.) A center channel speaker is designed to match your main speakers and to provide an optimal center image when positioned horizontally. NOTE that the C3+ is REALLY REALLY BIG and also quite heavy. It's an awesome center channel speaker for a big room... but it takes up a lot of space... and needs a big strong shelf (or a PAIR of normal stands). The C3+ will also work better if you're at least several feet away from it (I don't think I'd want to sit three or four feet in front of it... that's a bit too close.) NOTE, however, that tower speakers are NOT designed to be used as center channel speakers laying on their side. Towers are really designed to be positioned vertically and the imaging will not be as precise if you lay them down. (If you DO want want to use a pair of towers for your main L & R, and lay them down, then they should be symmetrical. (Either "both tweeters towards the outside" or "both tweeters towards the inside".) A single tower, laying on its side, in the center, will not have perfect symmetry, and will not deliver an optimal "center image". (So, in that situation, you'd still be better off with a center channel speaker, instead of a third identical tower speaker on its side in the middle .) I would use the same speakers for LCR and surrounds. I would use B2+ for all speakers before I would use different speakers for the L&R, C, and surrounds. At minimum, LCR should be the same speakers, with the same drivers and crossovers, with the drivers in a vertical placement like any of the T series. Then, the surrounds should be the same speakers. Unfortunately, this scenario usually results in speakers, LCR vs Surrounds, that have different crossover frequencies and different drivers. None of the C series would do for me, especially the C3. The best center speaker is a speaker the same as L&R. A match is as important as other parameters.Personally, if I were to use Emotiva speakers, I would use the same T series for LCR and Surrounds. Pick a size appropriate for your room. Run the surrounds full range. Run the LCR full range for music. Run the LCR full range or cross to Subs per bass requirements of a movie. The T series have a built-in stand . The B2+ needs a stand. The footprints of either are not radically different. Since you are addressing me – Almost all people have enough room for a B2+ as LCR and Surrounds – which is what I advised in my first paragraph. The ONLY center speakers that match L&R speakers are center speakers that are the SAME as the L&R speakers. An Emotiva C type speaker is NOT a match for either your T series speakers or your B2+ speaker. Anyone with even a shallow knowledge and interest in audio could see this. Emotiva is not the only manufacturer to push this line. The center channel and matching is something few speaker manufactures understand, nor are they willing to do the right things. Mixing studios get it. Mixing studios use the same speakers. You know; those people who actually make the recordings? I never said ‘lay a tower speaker on its side’. I wouldn’t lay ANY tower on its side. Read my post again. Again - I would use the same speakers for LCR and surrounds. I would use B2+ for all speakers before I would use different speakers for the L&R, C, and surrounds. Again - At minimum, LCR should be the same speakers, with the same drivers and crossovers, with the drivers in a vertical placement like any of the T series. Or, the B2+ for that matter. This continued promotion of and use of different speakers, with different crossovers, with different horizontal and vertical orientation, is what kills a lot of the audio magic in a recording – both music and movies. I offered an Emotiva matching solution to a prospective buyer of Emotiva speakers. There are a couple of manufacturers who get it. Emotiva is Not yet one of them, and you are in good company. LCSeminole started a speaker thread here with some discussion in it about this matching stuff. I suggest anyone who has more interest go there a read the pages. Also do some other research online. emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/59554/arendal-1723-speakers-tv1813m-setup |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,962
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Post by KeithL on Nov 10, 2023 12:36:04 GMT -5
Actually I was addressing both you and anyone else who may read this now or in the future. (You may be surprised at how many people search for answers to their similar questions on our forums.) And, yes, the best solution is to use identical speakers. However, for various reasons, most people either cannot or prefer not to make room for a tower speaker as a center. So the best compromise is to offer a center channel speaker that is as close a match for the towers as possible and is specifically designed to operate horizontally. Many people are not aware of the nuances of "simply flipping a speaker on its side" so it can be placed at a "convenient" location.... For example the fact that, with most center channel speakers that appear symmetrical, the drivers often have different crossover settings, so as to minimize comb-filter effects. Since you are addressing me – . .................................. |
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 10, 2023 13:41:38 GMT -5
Actually I was addressing both you and anyone else who may read this now or in the future. (You may be surprised at how many people search for answers to their similar questions on our forums.) And, yes, the best solution is to use identical speakers. However, for various reasons, most people either cannot or prefer not to make room for a tower speaker as a center. So the best compromise is to offer a center channel speaker that is as close a match for the towers as possible and is specifically designed to operate horizontally. Many people are not aware of the nuances of "simply flipping a speaker on its side" so it can be placed at a "convenient" location.... For example the fact that, with most center channel speakers that appear symmetrical, the drivers often have different crossover settings, so as to minimize comb-filter effects. Since you are addressing me – . .................................. B2+ speakers are affordable and will work well, the way I state, in a 12' x 24' room. THX theater levels can still be reached. Just add strategically placed Subs. If Emotiva made the MT crossovers the same frequency and type in the B2+ and the T series, mix-and-match would be easy and a no-brainer. WAF would immediately improve. HAF would improve. Same phasing between any channel pair fixes a lot of messes before they are made. Any two speakers is a channel pair. The Horizontal polar plot of a C series center speaker is a comb filter mess that cannot be unmade to combine well with T series speaker or the B2+. Emotiva is one manufacture among Many who use your Horizontal pseudo solution. The real mess is the marketing that pushes a C Series type center speaker. I understand consumer reluctance, and a manufacturer need to offer aesthetically palatable center channels. Some real education might help and get manufactures out of the marketing mess THEY created. Perhaps Emotiva could educate potential buyers, at its site, on some of the 'nuances'. I'm sure people would appreciate it. A current C Series type center could still be sold, with knowledge of the compromise being made. Disclosure is not a bad thing - It's Good Will. IMO, you made a remarkable argument for why DIRAC, or something like it, has limited usefulness. If you don't get first principals right, you can't 'fix it in the mix'. All you end up with is a different 'flavor' of garbage. Don't use DIRAC in regions where the crossovers exist. |
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Post by LuisV on Nov 11, 2023 9:34:03 GMT -5
Are you using a UST, projector mounted towards the back of the room or a TV? If a projector mounted towards the back of the room, then I would go with three identical speakers behind the screen and or false wall. If using a TV or UST projector, you will need to map things out on the wall, painters blue tape works perfectly for this, as the TV, UST screen or projector would affect placement of the center... things may be mounted too high or cause the center to be too low.
Below is some food for thought as well as explanation of some design compromises
I've been extremely happy with my Arendal speakers, if it was my room and if you have the budget, I would consider three Arendal 1723 or 1723 S monitors for LCR. No speaker is perfect...
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LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,501
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Post by LCSeminole on Nov 11, 2023 11:17:58 GMT -5
All My room is 12W x 24Lx 8H and my use case is home theater mostly with occasional streaming. I am upgrading to T3+ left and right, B2+ as surrounds and the MR1 receiver. The C3+ is quite large but will squeeze into my room, while the C2+ is a much better fit size wise. Sound wise how do they compare? I know the importance of the center channel and don't want to under-buy the center. I cannot seem to find reviews for Emotiva center speakers other than general discussions about how most center speakers are designed wrong (Erin).
Any feedback is welcome. JJ
How far will you sitting back from the center channel? If you are sitting back greater than 8ft or so, the C3+ would be a great match with the T3+ fronts(matching driver sizes/voice matched) as long as it can have proper placement and fits. One thing I’ve learned when buying a front stage(LCR), when three identical speakers aren’t possible, buy the best center channel possible/available. Dialogue is a huge part of a movie and you want clarity. |
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 11, 2023 12:16:18 GMT -5
Are you using a UST, projector mounted towards the back of the room or a TV? If a projector mounted towards the back of the room, then I would go with three identical speakers behind the screen and or false wall. If using a TV or UST projector, you will need to map things out on the wall, painters blue tape works perfectly for this, as the TV, UST screen or projector would affect placement of the center... things may be mounted too high or cause the center to be too low. Below is some food for thought as well as explanation of some design compromises I've been extremely happy with my Arendal speakers, if it was my room and if you have the budget, I would consider three Arendal 1723 or 1723 S monitors for LCR. No speaker is perfect... I watched the first video of Erin's. The best choices in the video are the KEF Q650c and the Arendal 1961. The right polar patterns. My preference would be the Arendal 1961. The SVS dispersion is too wide. The rest are unacceptable and should be avoided. Yes. |
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Sayer
Sensei
Chasing better sound.
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Post by Sayer on Nov 11, 2023 22:16:05 GMT -5
We upgraded to the C3+ from the C2+ when we got the T3+ towers. Our setup is 5.2.4 and the room is not large, maybe 15' x 17'. We sit approximately 8 feet from the C3+. Sound is amazing, the C3+ has a fuller more dynamic sound compared to the C2+, it holds its own nicely against the T3s in a good action scene. We moved our previous T2+ to rear channel duty when we got the T3s, and have four B2s for the height channels. It's a very immersive experience.
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. The B2+ needs a stand. The footprints of either are not radically different.
