House build 2025

[Erwin.BE]

We will be building a new house to be ready by the end of next year in a residential area near my job in Belgium. While keeping the second home (with the system in my sig) which is an hour drive away. The challenge is to create a satisfying non-dedicated AV environment. It's a challenge as the garden wall is 100 % glazed (thank you Mies Van Der Rohe). First priority is acoustics! The ceiling will lowered to cover pipes and cables which means we can use it to treat with absorption. Which is great. So the right wall is glass, the left wall is partly open but the rest can be treated with diffusion. No acoustic symmetry however. The rear wall... there isn't any nearby. It's true open plan living..

First decision: projection or big flatscreen. I do prefer projection. Viewing is mostly an after work - after dark occasion and we can always close the curtains. With an acoustic transparent screen, I can install a great LCR layout and even hide the subs (2) behind it. I have the habit to spend a lot of time behind a desk positioned behind MLP, so "2nd row" is important

Now for the surround sound: I would prefer to only use one pair of ear level surrounds @ 90° for esthetic reasons but maybe that's not enough.. Adding rear surrounds (actually around 135° on the sides because otherwise these would be in the middle of the room) will be a challenge. I don't really care for Wides, would rather spread LR near 30° and Sides @ 90 to keep the spread @ 60°

We can do as many top speakers as wanted or mix with Front Height. Considering 5.2.6 or 7.2.6 with Front Height @ 30° elevation, Top Middle @ 90° and Rear Height @ 150° elevation (all in the ceiling). Alternatively Top Front @ 45° + TM @ 90° + Top Rear @ 135°.

Thoughts?

[Boomzilla]

One, and it isn’t directly related to acoustics… Remember that to have air circulation through ANY room, you’ll not only need forced air supplies from your HVAC system, but also air RETURNS. Trying to blow air into a room without a return is like trying to blow air into an empty bottle - there’s just nowhere for the air to GO!

Good luck with your new listening room!

Boomzilla

[AudioHTIT]

May 5, 2024 17:34:59 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

One, and it isn’t directly related to acoustics… Remember that to have air circulation through ANY room, you’ll not only need forced air supplies from your HVAC system, but also air RETURNS. Trying to blow air into a room without a return is like trying to blow air into an empty bottle - there’s just nowhere for the air to GO!

Good luck with your new listening room!

Boomzilla

Great advice, I missed that on my home design, and the HVAC sub neglected to mention it until the guys showed up to install the ducting! Had to give up space in two closets and an alcove for returns.

[ttocs]

Congrats on the new build! It's always fun!

I love a projected image! but I also love OLED panels in a non-darkened room!

I had projectors for several years but finally gave it up so I could live in a lighted room on a daily basis. I truly don't miss much from what projection offers. With that said, it would be quite a feat to have both so Movie Night! can be just a little more special!

As said above, having the same amount of return ductwork as supply is critical for proper circulation/comfort.

[Boomzilla]

Yeah, AudioHTIT -

If the design doesn’t happen during the pre-construction phase, it’s hard (and expensive) to retrofit. I’ve had the pleasure of doing the hazard analysis on HVAC systems for buildings with both internal and external chemical potentials. Ventilation (and the necessity of eliminating it quickly) were of interest. Some of what I learned also pertains to residential construction.

[Erwin.BE]

May 5, 2024 17:34:59 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

One, and it isn’t directly related to acoustics… Remember that to have air circulation through ANY room, you’ll not only need forced air supplies from your HVAC system, but also air RETURNS. Trying to blow air into a room without a return is like trying to blow air into an empty bottle - there’s just nowhere for the air to GO!

Good luck with your new listening room!

Boomzilla

Thank you. I agree 100% but there will be plenty of space left for the air ducts to be hidden in the lowered ceiling. We are still in the first stages of the design process. The attached floor-plan of the day space is v2 after our initial remarks on v1. The gross ceiling height is 3m (10 ft) and we allow the ceiling to be dropped by 20 cm (8"). I think we will adopt a screen of about 10 ft wide (note the cooking blocking the kitchen is also 10 ft) which could mean the central part of the living space ceiling could be also 3ft wide with acoustic absorption in stead of lowered ceiling. This leaves about 3 ft on each side which has lowered ceiling to cover the ducts (and other stuff such as most likely in ceiling Atmos speakers). Extraction of air is via the kitchen space.

Shhhh! Don't call it a listening room, my wife might hear you! It's a living room which happens to support nice sounding music..

[Erwin.BE]

May 5, 2024 18:52:33 GMT -5 AudioHTIT said:

May 5, 2024 17:34:59 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

One, and it isn’t directly related to acoustics… Remember that to have air circulation through ANY room, you’ll not only need forced air supplies from your HVAC system, but also air RETURNS. Trying to blow air into a room without a return is like trying to blow air into an empty bottle - there’s just nowhere for the air to GO!

Good luck with your new listening room!

Boomzilla

Great advice, I missed that on my home design, and the HVAC sub neglected to mention it until the guys showed up to install the ducting! Had to give up space in two closets and an alcove for returns.

My wife and I are so busy with our respective jobs that this time we decided to hand over the complete execution of the build to one contractor with experience in the realization this kind of architecture. This avoids surprises like you mention. We haven't decided who at this point, too early days.

[Erwin.BE]

May 5, 2024 20:59:50 GMT -5 ttocs said:

Congrats on the new build! It's always fun!

I love a projected image! but I also love OLED panels in a non-darkened room!

I had projectors for several years but finally gave it up so I could live in a lighted room on a daily basis. I truly don't miss much from what projection offers. With that said, it would be quite a feat to have both so Movie Night! can be just a little more special!

Good point. Can you describe your front end? I can't figure it out from your sig. You have the Martin Logan "electrostatic" as LR, I presume?

I am prepared to give up on the projection if I can figure out a coherent LCR with a big flat screen AND dual subs in the front. For one, I don't like a teevee that's placed high on the wall.

[Erwin.BE]

On the topic of Atmos, I find the Focal 300 ICA6 Coaxial ceiling speaker with angle interesting. Usually, it's only the tweeter that can be pointed towards the listener. But these have a mid woofer which is angled by 35°. These seem to be designed with TF+TR positions in mind. Priced @ around 400 euro each.

[ttocs]

May 6, 2024 16:05:17 GMT -5 Erwin.BE said:

May 5, 2024 20:59:50 GMT -5 ttocs said:

Congrats on the new build! It's always fun!

I love a projected image! but I also love OLED panels in a non-darkened room!

I had projectors for several years but finally gave it up so I could live in a lighted room on a daily basis. I truly don't miss much from what projection offers. With that said, it would be quite a feat to have both so Movie Night! can be just a little more special!

Good point. Can you describe your front end? I can't figure it out from your sig. You have the Martin Logan "electrostatic" as LR, I presume?

I am prepared to give up on the projection if I can figure out a coherent LCR with a big flat screen AND dual subs in the front. For one, I don't like a teevee that's placed high on the wall.

Yes, the ML Expressions are Front L&R powered by a Krell DUO 300XD, ML Focus Center powered by a Emotiva HC-1, 6 ML Dynamo 1100X subwoofers, and XMC-2 processor. It's a 7.1.4 channel setup with 4 ML IW in-wall Surrounds, and 4 ML 4i Tops, in a multi-purpose great room.

[Erwin.BE]

I gave the projector vs flatscreen choice some thought. Found a few semi-affordable 83" OLED flatscreens from Sony and LG etc. Price per surface seems to keep dropping.. Think I will go for flatscreen.


As a XMC-2 owner, I obviously would prefer getting another one for the new build. The issue with dual subs in a 7.2.6 layout is you cannot directly connect 2 subs and the middle pair of Tops together. It's one or the other. May I suggest to the good Emotiva folks, when an update is due, to use the Front Wides outputs in stead? I know there are ways around it but it means extra boxes.

[marcl]

May 8, 2024 14:24:43 GMT -5 Erwin.BE said:

I gave the projector vs flatscreen choice some thought. Found a few semi-affordable 83" OLED flatscreens from Sony and LG etc. Price per surface seems to keep dropping.. Think I will go for flatscreen.


As a XMC-2 owner, I obviously would prefer getting another one for the new build. The issue with dual subs in a 7.2.6 layout is you cannot directly connect 2 subs and the middle pair of Tops together. It's one or the other. May I suggest to the good Emotiva folks, when an update is due, to use the Front Wides outputs in stead? I know there are ways around it but it means extra boxes.

Even a simple Y cable on the Center Sub output works fine, especially if they are roughly equidistant from the listening position.  A miniDSP is not that hard to set up and can get you to 4 subs if needed.

We've asked for a while to have outputs more flexible in their assignments ... but I would not bet on it.

[ottaone]

Since the right wall is glass, you’d have the surrounds on stands, correct?

Are you able to hide speaker wires under the floor? If you have surrounds on stands, maybe you can provision for rears through the floor and put the speakers away when not in use.

The nice big study could use some nice ear level speakers.:-)

Also, how did you intend to hide the projector?

Congrats and good luck with the project.

[Erwin.BE]

hi ottaone,

Thanks for the input. I have been reworking the layout myself a few times in these early days (planning permit is not yet applied for)

You are correct about the right side being glass hence the necessity for standmount speakers there. As for the rears, I do not see myself connecting the speakers each time I want to see a movie.. The rears will be on the sides, close to 135° off axis, which is in spec. The side surrounds wil be slightly in front around 80° off axis. Which, admittedly, is not in spec, but it has been documented this is possible when rears are present (hence okay for 7.1 but not for 5.1). It also renders wides less useful especially when I aim to have the LR fronts @ the 30° ideal position. Only 50° between fronts and side surrounds. No wides then.

As for height speakers: 6 Top (front, mid, rear), in ceiling. I found angled (38°) tannoy's which are perfect IMO, they have a wide 90° dispersion too. Position these to MLP and all seats are inside the dispersion cone

Considering (cheap) active Tannoy Gold 8 for LCR and Gold 7 for surround... again: 90° dispersion. 300 watts each, plenty loud. Much better dispersion compared to the AMT which Emotiva uses (I have some and they are perfect for near field though)

2 or 3 subs DIY stealth integrated in the build. Probably using Dayton Ultimax 15 (or 18"). Not seeking for the lowest tune possible but strong even bass in stead.

I changed my mind about the projector though... I will never be able to have proper light control during the day. 83" flatscreens are affordable and (almost) big enough for my taste. A compromise, for sure.

BTW: the study ("bureau" in the plan) will of course get it's own little AV system with the Emotiva active speakers..




Tannoy PCI 7DC RB (these can also be rotated - we need 45° - in addition to the vertical 38° angle) recommended amp is 240 Watt@8ohm hence any XPA will do nicely, peak 116 db @ 1m, +/- 3dB from 60 dB and they come with backer boxes to be installed before the drywall ceiling paneling