haemphyst
Minor Hero
When Dave braces a cabinet...
Posts: 45
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Post by haemphyst on May 17, 2024 7:55:00 GMT -5
Looking for input from people, since I can't seem to REALLY make up mu own mind most of the time. Flame if you must, gentle suggestions of support if you'd like.  I have thick skin, and can take it. I have a set of Bohlender-Graebner 52" planars, most of you have seen them if you've been hanging around for the last decade or longer. Effectively home brewed and built, they are modeled after Tom's Radia Series 52's, with ribbons sourced DIRECTLY from Tom's factory, with notch filters built specifically (thus custom) for the drivers I have. They're very nice, very nice indeed... Mated to a Gen1 Dayton 12" woofer, in 2.2 sealed cubes, and a crossover point of (I thiiink, 125Hz?... at 48dB/octave) I get flat response down to mid 20's. I don't even have a sub. That being said, they WANT grunt, both the ribbons and the woofer. All four drivers are 4 ohms. Signal processing is motley, at best. A pair of Marchand Electronics XM-16 crossover modules, with all the upgrades...(caps, resistors, and op-amps) in separate hand-hewn oak chassis, internally shielded with copper sheets, powered by an analog ±15V@2.5A/rail power supply, so plenty of current to run a few op-amps. My other crossover is a Behringer UltraDrive 24/96 with I/O upgrade mods. This one's almost a waste, because I use the Marchand units almost exclusively. I start here with the speakers and processing, because I'd like people to know that I am pretty serious about my listening, as are most of you. As a side, I also possess a pair of gifted-to-me DCM CX17 "bookshelf" speakers in astounding condition. Those are just a BLAST to swap in once in a while. Best sounding bookies I've EVER heard. I run currently, four UPA-1 amplifiers. I really do like them. With 350 watts on tap at the rated 4 ohm load, there's certainly enough power. Very flat and quite neutral sounding, they mate well with the known gentle roll-off of the ribbons, starting around 16 to 18 kHz, and off about 3dB at 20kHz. The other set(s) of amplifiers I have at my disposal are three NAD-216THX amps. Those amplifiers are known to be a little bright (but never harsh) and those actually present marginally better frequency response in the room, owing to the roll-off of the ribbons. Those offer 220 watts into the 4 ohm load, so marginally less power than the Emos. Both amps love the highly resistive nature of the ribbons, and neither struggle with the Daytons. I also have an AM-441 by Audiometric/SAE from the early 80's. That's a nice piece of kit, too. At 225WPC into 8 or 4 ohms, that's a fun gift I almost never tire of, either. I rarely if ever put it on the big system so I can't say I remember what it's like on the ribbons or Daytons, but it's my go-to when I want to beat the walls in the bedroom with the DCMs. LOL A really fun setup.  Oh, and an XDA-2. Willing to spend a few dollars on Dave, finally. LOL Would the XPA-2 offer THAT much better sound, than any of my existing power, that it'd be worth spending the cash? I'd start with one and likely upgrade to two. Let's hear ALL suggestions! |
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Post by AudioHTIT on May 17, 2024 10:13:48 GMT -5
I’d just offer the opinion that the UPA-1 was/is a pretty good amp, and it sounds like they’re working well in your system. Unless you think they’re at risk of failing, the potential of any significant ‘sound’ upgrade is minimal, and you have a nice collection of options already (my first ‘high end’ amp was an SAE in the early 70’s). I’d probably stay put.
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Post by Boomzilla on May 17, 2024 11:10:51 GMT -5
Hi haemphyst - IMHO, the UPA-1 amps you have are not going to be bettered by anything Emotiva currently sells (with the possible exceptions of the XPA-1 due to its raw power or the XPA HC-1 due to its high current capabilities). But if you're looking for bang for the buck, might I enquire about your listening room? Is it properly treated (absorbers, diffusers, bass traps)? If you are unsure, hire an acoustic expert to look it over. Or there are online companies that can let you define your room & make recommendations. Best of luck! Glenn Young |
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Post by garbulky on May 17, 2024 19:04:51 GMT -5
A used xpa2 gen 2 would be an improvement but not necessarily the latest gen model. Honestly chances are you will hear no differences.
Try some room treatments.
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Post by 405x5 on May 18, 2024 7:28:54 GMT -5
Looking for input from people, since I can't seem to REALLY make up mu own mind most of the time. Flame if you must, gentle suggestions of support if you'd like. I have thick skin, and can take it. Glad to hear you’ve got a thick skin because IMHO, You need to forget about the gear for a while and kick back to decide what you’re REALLY looking for when you sit back and listen to music and/or watch film. (If you do both, I don’t know). |
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haemphyst
Minor Hero
When Dave braces a cabinet...
Posts: 45
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Post by haemphyst on May 20, 2024 6:54:08 GMT -5
Looking for input from people, since I can't seem to REALLY make up mu own mind most of the time. Flame if you must, gentle suggestions of support if you'd like. I have thick skin, and can take it. Glad to hear you’ve got a thick skin because IMHO, You need to forget about the gear for a while and kick back to decide what you’re REALLY looking for when you sit back and listen to music and/or watch film. (If you do both, I don’t know). Oh sure... you and your Sunfire Signature amp. LOL Meant in good fun, so don't take it any other way. ANY Sunfire amp along with a quartet of Gen1 XPA-1 amps are bucket-list gear for me.  2-channel is largely all I listen to. I'd someday LIKE to listen to properly addressed multi-channel, but for right now? Meh. I really LOVE properly presented 2-channel audio. |
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Post by 405x5 on May 20, 2024 7:28:14 GMT -5
Glad to hear you’ve got a thick skin because IMHO, You need to forget about the gear for a while and kick back to decide what you’re REALLY looking for when you sit back and listen to music and/or watch film. (If you do both, I don’t know). Oh sure... you and your Sunfire Signature amp. LOL Meant in good fun, so don't take it any other way. ANY Sunfire amp along with a quartet of Gen1 XPA-1 amps are bucket-list gear for me. 2-channel is largely all I listen to. I'd someday LIKE to listen to properly addressed multi-channel, but for right now? Meh. I really LOVE properly presented 2-channel audio. To me it sounds like you need to get around to listening to more loud speakers until you find the pair that please you…… Don’t think about “listening” to amplifiers per se find the loudspeaker pair that please you MORE and then match them to the right power. The Amplifiers are important, but not nearly so much as the timber of the loudspeaker to your own ears. |
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Post by 405x5 on May 20, 2024 7:48:07 GMT -5
legacyaudio.com/products/view/i-v5…… I did my homework a while back for when that Sunfire you mentioned blows up if it ever does. The above link takes you to my next victim.
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on May 20, 2024 8:53:06 GMT -5
To be quite honest you seem happy with what you have (and I don't see anything that "obviously needs improvement"). Also, as you undoubtedly already know, the things that make the most difference will be your speakers and room acoustics. But, if you're already happy with what you have there, then enjoy them. (I can't think of anything that I would be willing to bet would sound better to you... which is what counts.) It's obvious that you've been doing a lot of tweaking and such... If you're NOT happy with the results, then it's up to you to figure out what you're not happy with, and maybe we can make some useful suggestions... But, if you ARE happy, then don't waste a lot of time and effort trying to imagine what could be better. Looking for input from people, since I can't seem to REALLY make up mu own mind most of the time. Flame if you must, gentle suggestions of support if you'd like. I have thick skin, and can take it. I have a set of Bohlender-Graebner 52" planars, most of you have seen them if you've been hanging around for the last decade or longer. Effectively home brewed and built, they are modeled after Tom's Radia Series 52's, with ribbons sourced DIRECTLY from Tom's factory, with notch filters built specifically (thus custom) for the drivers I have. They're very nice, very nice indeed... Mated to a Gen1 Dayton 12" woofer, in 2.2 sealed cubes, and a crossover point of (I thiiink, 125Hz?... at 48dB/octave) I get flat response down to mid 20's. I don't even have a sub. That being said, they WANT grunt, both the ribbons and the woofer. All four drivers are 4 ohms. Signal processing is motley, at best. A pair of Marchand Electronics XM-16 crossover modules, with all the upgrades...(caps, resistors, and op-amps) in separate hand-hewn oak chassis, internally shielded with copper sheets, powered by an analog ±15V@2.5A/rail power supply, so plenty of current to run a few op-amps. My other crossover is a Behringer UltraDrive 24/96 with I/O upgrade mods. This one's almost a waste, because I use the Marchand units almost exclusively. I start here with the speakers and processing, because I'd like people to know that I am pretty serious about my listening, as are most of you. As a side, I also possess a pair of gifted-to-me DCM CX17 "bookshelf" speakers in astounding condition. Those are just a BLAST to swap in once in a while. Best sounding bookies I've EVER heard. I run currently, four UPA-1 amplifiers. I really do like them. With 350 watts on tap at the rated 4 ohm load, there's certainly enough power. Very flat and quite neutral sounding, they mate well with the known gentle roll-off of the ribbons, starting around 16 to 18 kHz, and off about 3dB at 20kHz. The other set(s) of amplifiers I have at my disposal are three NAD-216THX amps. Those amplifiers are known to be a little bright (but never harsh) and those actually present marginally better frequency response in the room, owing to the roll-off of the ribbons. Those offer 220 watts into the 4 ohm load, so marginally less power than the Emos. Both amps love the highly resistive nature of the ribbons, and neither struggle with the Daytons. I also have an AM-441 by Audiometric/SAE from the early 80's. That's a nice piece of kit, too. At 225WPC into 8 or 4 ohms, that's a fun gift I almost never tire of, either. I rarely if ever put it on the big system so I can't say I remember what it's like on the ribbons or Daytons, but it's my go-to when I want to beat the walls in the bedroom with the DCMs. LOL A really fun setup. Oh, and an XDA-2. Willing to spend a few dollars on Dave, finally. LOL Would the XPA-2 offer THAT much better sound, than any of my existing power, that it'd be worth spending the cash? I'd start with one and likely upgrade to two. Let's hear ALL suggestions! |
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Post by mgbpuff on May 20, 2024 15:57:58 GMT -5
Ditto what Keith said. However, I don't see a preamp specified or source components. I'm guessing that you are an analog type of guy. The early Emo amps have a high gain structure (31 db, if I remember). That is unusually high requiring a corresponding rather low line level input. Maybe an amp update would allow for higher line level which would perhaps yield some improvement. I don't really know for sure but consider this point and determine if it may be a factor in your case.
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Post by leonski on May 27, 2024 13:59:08 GMT -5
This is a 'Must Audition' type situation. NOBODY in there right mind would or Could say that XXX was better or worse than your UPA-1s...... I suspect, however that it IS possible and would also require not a 'lateral move' (NAD and older SAE) but a move UP the food chain. I can think of half a dozen brands or more....'on the list'..... So I'd suggest a listen a little up the scale. And make certain, that if the linked review is accurate, that ANY candidate amp is comfortable with 4ohm and lesser loads. www.stereophile.com/content/bohlender-graebener-radia-520i-loudspeaker-measurementsKeith's notes are worth reading again. Broke? Fix it. NOT Broke? Don't! |
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Post by leonski on Jun 6, 2024 23:41:39 GMT -5
Any late word?
Any place to go LISTEN to anything?
Or even an audio society where members will share listening to systems with other members.
IMO the only way forward is to audition.
You're apparently just north of a pretty big town.....Dallas / Fort Worth.....
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I have thick skin, and can take it.
Oh, and an XDA-2.
