jbryngelson
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Healthy Tweaking is good for the Hobby
Posts: 23
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Post by jbryngelson on Jul 4, 2024 9:11:19 GMT -5
My room has LCR - Surround - Rear (7), and 2 front, 1 side, 1 rear subwoofers (4).
I have set all (7) speakers as SMALL
I would like to know HOW to use my Subs with the following goal. The L and R Main speakers bass output be sent to the front two subs, and the remaining bass output of the Center/Side/Rear - and - LFE go to the side and rear subwoofers. Which Subs should I connect to which outputs from the processor (L-Height Sub, Center Sub, R-Height Sub).
It may be obvious, but I want to listen to 2-channel where the XMC-2 is providing bass management, so maybe I setup speaker Preset-1 for MultiChannel, and Preset-2 for TwoChannel?
Also, when configuring Preset-1, can one of the three use Dirac Live and the other two be setup without Dirac?
Thanks Everyone, Jeff in Detroit
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Post by marcl on Jul 4, 2024 9:41:30 GMT -5
My room has LCR - Surround - Rear (7), and 2 front, 1 side, 1 rear subwoofers (4). I have set all (7) speakers as SMALL I would like to know HOW to use my Subs with the following goal. The L and R Main speakers bass output be sent to the front two subs, and the remaining bass output of the Center/Side/Rear - and - LFE go to the side and rear subwoofers. Which Subs should I connect to which outputs from the processor (L-Height Sub, Center Sub, R-Height Sub). It may be obvious, but I want to listen to 2-channel where the XMC-2 is providing bass management, so maybe I setup speaker Preset-1 for MultiChannel, and Preset-2 for TwoChannel? Also, when configuring Preset-1, can one of the three use Dirac Live and the other two be setup without Dirac? Thanks Everyone, Jeff in Detroit Last question first .... in each Preset the Equalization has one User slot and three Dirac slots. The User slot does not use Dirac (you can use PEQ); the three Dirac slots use Dirac filters. I'm not sure if it will let you select a Dirac slot that has no filter loaded ... nor what would happen if you did. If you set your Preset 2 for 2-channel and configure only the L/R configured as Small, and front two subs (connected to Left Sub and Right Sub) configured Dual Mono, then you get what you want for 2-channel. Of course the sub outputs will be mono, not stereo. For Preset 1 multichannel there is no way to direct the L/R front bass to two of the subs and the rest to the other subs. And of course there are actually only three sub outputs. This brings up the point of how to connect multiple subs. For best results with Dirac, it's best for all subs to be connected to a single sub output so Dirac corrects their summed output. You can do this with Y cables, daisy-chaining, or a miniDSP 2x4HD. |
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ttocs
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I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
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Post by ttocs on Jul 4, 2024 10:14:01 GMT -5
My room has LCR - Surround - Rear (7), and 2 front, 1 side, 1 rear subwoofers (4). I have set all (7) speakers as SMALL I would like to know HOW to use my Subs with the following goal. The L and R Main speakers bass output be sent to the front two subs, and the remaining bass output of the Center/Side/Rear - and - LFE go to the side and rear subwoofers. Which Subs should I connect to which outputs from the processor (L-Height Sub, Center Sub, R-Height Sub). It may be obvious, but I want to listen to 2-channel where the XMC-2 is providing bass management, so maybe I setup speaker Preset-1 for MultiChannel, and Preset-2 for TwoChannel? Also, when configuring Preset-1, can one of the three use Dirac Live and the other two be setup without Dirac? Thanks Everyone, Jeff in Detroit
For Preset 1 multichannel there is no way to direct the L/R front bass to two of the subs and the rest to the other subs. And of course there are actually only three sub outputs.
This brings up the point of how to connect multiple subs. For best results with Dirac, it's best for all subs to be connected to a single sub output so Dirac corrects their summed output. You can do this with Y cables, daisy-chaining, or a miniDSP 2x4HD.This is an interesting thought. I you go into the xml file and edit a Slot Name from "empty" and name it anything else, it will show up. Conversely, if you name an occupied slot "empty" (without the quotation marks) then it will disappear. So, here's the catch, one can conceivably edit the Dirac xml file that is clean to start with, no filters ever loaded since Factory Reset, then this would allow for an additional "User" slot, but one with which the user cannot modify like what can be done with a real User Slot. So there would be no Distance settings, etc. But, what about using Dirac for just the Impulse measurement and nothing else? You could set the curtains such that no correction would be applied. This would still mean that there will be a volume level difference vs User, but all the channels involved would be adjusted for distance and phase. IMO it would be a waste of not at least adjusting the bass frequencies, but interesting experiment just the same. |
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Post by marcl on Jul 4, 2024 10:31:50 GMT -5
Last question first .... in each Preset the Equalization has one User slot and three Dirac slots. The User slot does not use Dirac (you can use PEQ); the three Dirac slots use Dirac filters. I'm not sure if it will let you select a Dirac slot that has no filter loaded ... nor what would happen if you did.If you set your Preset 2 for 2-channel and configure only the L/R configured as Small, and front two subs (connected to Left Sub and Right Sub) configured Dual Mono, then you get what you want for 2-channel. Of course the sub outputs will be mono, not stereo.
For Preset 1 multichannel there is no way to direct the L/R front bass to two of the subs and the rest to the other subs. And of course there are actually only three sub outputs.
This brings up the point of how to connect multiple subs. For best results with Dirac, it's best for all subs to be connected to a single sub output so Dirac corrects their summed output. You can do this with Y cables, daisy-chaining, or a miniDSP 2x4HD. This is an interesting thought. I you go into the xml file and edit a Slot Name from "empty" and name it anything else, it will show up. Conversely, if you name an occupied slot "empty" (without the quotation marks) then it will disappear. So, here's the catch, one can conceivably edit the Dirac xml file that is clean to start with, no filters ever loaded since Factory Reset, then this would allow for an additional "User" slot, but one with which the user cannot modify like what can be done with a real User Slot. So there would be no Distance settings, etc. But, what about using Dirac for just the Impulse measurement and nothing else? You could set the curtains such that no correction would be applied. This would still mean that there will be a volume level difference vs User, but all the channels involved would be adjusted for distance and phase. IMO it would be a waste of not at least adjusting the bass frequencies, but interesting experiment just the same. Yes! The fact that an empty Dirac slot has no distance control is significant ... though not a big deal with just 2-channel presumably left and right speaker equidistant. Doing Dirac with the "curtains closed" for no frequency correction would work. But still the ultimate question ... since every room has modal resonances, why NOT use Dirac at least below 200Hz? |
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ttocs
Global Moderator
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,155
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Post by ttocs on Jul 4, 2024 10:50:54 GMT -5
Yeah, what that guy said. ^^^^
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Post by foggy1956 on Jul 4, 2024 11:44:17 GMT -5
My room has LCR - Surround - Rear (7), and 2 front, 1 side, 1 rear subwoofers (4). I have set all (7) speakers as SMALL I would like to know HOW to use my Subs with the following goal. The L and R Main speakers bass output be sent to the front two subs, and the remaining bass output of the Center/Side/Rear - and - LFE go to the side and rear subwoofers. Which Subs should I connect to which outputs from the processor (L-Height Sub, Center Sub, R-Height Sub). It may be obvious, but I want to listen to 2-channel where the XMC-2 is providing bass management, so maybe I setup speaker Preset-1 for MultiChannel, and Preset-2 for TwoChannel? Also, when configuring Preset-1, can one of the three use Dirac Live and the other two be setup without Dirac? Thanks Everyone, Jeff in Detroit Last question first .... in each Preset the Equalization has one User slot and three Dirac slots. The User slot does not use Dirac (you can use PEQ); the three Dirac slots use Dirac filters. I'm not sure if it will let you select a Dirac slot that has no filter loaded ... nor what would happen if you did. If you set your Preset 2 for 2-channel and configure only the L/R configured as Small, and front two subs (connected to Left Sub and Right Sub) configured Dual Mono, then you get what you want for 2-channel. Of course the sub outputs will be mono, not stereo. For Preset 1 multichannel there is no way to direct the L/R front bass to two of the subs and the rest to the other subs. And of course there are actually only three sub outputs. This brings up the point of how to connect multiple subs. For best results with Dirac, it's best for all subs to be connected to a single sub output so Dirac corrects their summed output. You can do this with Y cables, daisy-chaining, or a miniDSP 2x4HD. If DLBC becomes available in the next gen processors will it still be best to use a single output to multiple subs or will it be better to go to individual outputs? |
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Post by marcl on Jul 4, 2024 11:58:20 GMT -5
Last question first .... in each Preset the Equalization has one User slot and three Dirac slots. The User slot does not use Dirac (you can use PEQ); the three Dirac slots use Dirac filters. I'm not sure if it will let you select a Dirac slot that has no filter loaded ... nor what would happen if you did. If you set your Preset 2 for 2-channel and configure only the L/R configured as Small, and front two subs (connected to Left Sub and Right Sub) configured Dual Mono, then you get what you want for 2-channel. Of course the sub outputs will be mono, not stereo. For Preset 1 multichannel there is no way to direct the L/R front bass to two of the subs and the rest to the other subs. And of course there are actually only three sub outputs. This brings up the point of how to connect multiple subs. For best results with Dirac, it's best for all subs to be connected to a single sub output so Dirac corrects their summed output. You can do this with Y cables, daisy-chaining, or a miniDSP 2x4HD. If DLBC becomes available in the next gen processors will it still be best to use a single output to multiple subs or will it be better to go to individual outputs? DLBC will only work if each sub is connected to a separate output. So we could connect three to use with DLBC |
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jbryngelson
Minor Hero
Healthy Tweaking is good for the Hobby
Posts: 23
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Post by jbryngelson on Jul 4, 2024 17:56:27 GMT -5
What does DLBC stand for?
I believe I can configure the L and R sub output as Mono, AND the Center as LFE. Would that solve my need for the bottom end (Bass Mgmt) of my L/R main speakers go to the L/R sub. I think I can then configure the Center Sub with LFE output, and then use a Y cable to send that to my Side and Rear (in my room description) subwoofers.
Does that make sense?
Should I use Preset-1 for the MultiChannel and Preset-2 for the 2-Channel to keep things simple and straightforward, or is there something I would not be able to do per my initial post with this added information?
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Post by marcl on Jul 4, 2024 18:00:31 GMT -5
What does DLBC stand for? I believe I can configure the L and R sub output as Mono, AND the Center as LFE. Would that solve my need for the bottom end (Bass Mgmt) of my L/R main speakers go to the L/R sub. I think I can then configure the Center Sub with LFE output, and then use a Y cable to send that to my Side and Rear (in my room description) subwoofers. Does that make sense? Should I use Preset-1 for the MultiChannel and Preset-2 for the 2-Channel to keep things simple and straightforward, or is there something I would not be able to do per my initial post with this added information? If you do that, then ONLY LFE will go to ONLY the side and rear subs, and all the bass management for all the speakers will go ONLY to the L and R subs. |
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Post by marcl on Jul 4, 2024 18:02:47 GMT -5
What does DLBC stand for? I believe I can configure the L and R sub output as Mono, AND the Center as LFE. Would that solve my need for the bottom end (Bass Mgmt) of my L/R main speakers go to the L/R sub. I think I can then configure the Center Sub with LFE output, and then use a Y cable to send that to my Side and Rear (in my room description) subwoofers. Does that make sense? Should I use Preset-1 for the MultiChannel and Preset-2 for the 2-Channel to keep things simple and straightforward, or is there something I would not be able to do per my initial post with this added information? Dirac Live Bass Control is an optional function of Dirac that we do not currently have. It has been said that it will be available in the new + processors. With DLBC Dirac manages all the subs together to optimize crossover points and the combined response of all the subs. It also aligns phase responses of speakers to optimize the transition to bass management. |
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jbryngelson
Minor Hero
Healthy Tweaking is good for the Hobby
Posts: 23
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Post by jbryngelson on Jul 5, 2024 9:21:13 GMT -5
This is an interesting thought. I you go into the xml file and edit a Slot Name from "empty" and name it anything else, it will show up. Conversely, if you name an occupied slot "empty" (without the quotation marks) then it will disappear. So, here's the catch, one can conceivably edit the Dirac xml file that is clean to start with, no filters ever loaded since Factory Reset, then this would allow for an additional "User" slot, but one with which the user cannot modify like what can be done with a real User Slot. So there would be no Distance settings, etc. But, what about using Dirac for just the Impulse measurement and nothing else? You could set the curtains such that no correction would be applied. This would still mean that there will be a volume level difference vs User, but all the channels involved would be adjusted for distance and phase. IMO it would be a waste of not at least adjusting the bass frequencies, but interesting experiment just the same. Yes! The fact that an empty Dirac slot has no distance control is significant ... though not a big deal with just 2-channel presumably left and right speaker equidistant. Doing Dirac with the "curtains closed" for no frequency correction would work. But still the ultimate question ... since every room has modal resonances, why NOT use Dirac at least below 200Hz? Reading the manual, it sounds like I can set all speakers as Small, choose my cutoff for Front/Side/Rear, and redirect the Bass Management to the L/R Sub and configure them as Dual Mono, where they will sum all the channels to include lower bass signal. I then would Y cable the Center Sub for LFE configuration for all LFE content to side and Rear. Essentially not my exact desire, but closer. Ultimately I think the 2-Channel setup in Preset-2 will give me three slots for setup of Dirac in 2-Channel and one in non-Dirac using the Sub L/R for L/R speakers in Dual Mono also. I just need to work on this but wanted to get some opinion and experience from the board. Happy 4th weekend from Detroit. |
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Post by marcl on Jul 5, 2024 10:13:55 GMT -5
Yes! The fact that an empty Dirac slot has no distance control is significant ... though not a big deal with just 2-channel presumably left and right speaker equidistant. Doing Dirac with the "curtains closed" for no frequency correction would work. But still the ultimate question ... since every room has modal resonances, why NOT use Dirac at least below 200Hz? Reading the manual, it sounds like I can set all speakers as Small, choose my cutoff for Front/Side/Rear, and redirect the Bass Management to the L/R Sub and configure them as Dual Mono, where they will sum all the channels to include lower bass signal. I then would Y cable the Center Sub for LFE configuration for all LFE content to side and Rear. Essentially not my exact desire, but closer. Ultimately I think the 2-Channel setup in Preset-2 will give me three slots for setup of Dirac in 2-Channel and one in non-Dirac using the Sub L/R for L/R speakers in Dual Mono also. I just need to work on this but wanted to get some opinion and experience from the board. Happy 4th weekend from Detroit. Yes ... all that will work! |
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jbryngelson
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Healthy Tweaking is good for the Hobby
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Post by jbryngelson on Jul 8, 2024 9:25:07 GMT -5
Love this forum and most of what this company does for us AV peoples. I will now systematically implement this, testing with test tones and meters, to ensure I am getting it right. The idea of one Preset for all three Dirac settings for MultiChannel, and Preset-2 for all things 2-Channel (Including one all natural) is a good thing.
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jbryngelson
Minor Hero
Healthy Tweaking is good for the Hobby
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Post by jbryngelson on Jul 8, 2024 19:20:18 GMT -5
Well, I did what had to be done! Setup the XMC with my L/R full range speakers set to SMALL, and a 120Hz crossover. Set the L and R sub to be Dual Mono, sending signal to a stereo amp that connected to the sealed subwoofers to be the bottom end of my L/R main speakers. I then set the Center to LFE. System is working as expected with good results after my initial tone test from the XMC speaker setup.
Tomorrow - Dirac for Multichannel.
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Post by hsamwel on Aug 17, 2024 13:37:06 GMT -5
Note however that, while this setup works, it’s not recommended until DLBC is implemented.
Because you will have dual bass outputs that is not calibrated together.
Dirac on Emotiva currently only calibrate each speaker/sub separately.
This is what the Bass Control does in DLBC, make them behave together.
The recommended way currently is to have one output. Multiple subs either by a separate
bass controller like MiniDSP or set all three as mono subs.
IMHO this is a strange way to set up subs. If well integrated you should have no performance
gains with separating bass management and LFE. Rather the opposit.
How will you get good bass for multiple seats with one sub playing LFE only? Then only two
subs for the bass management when having the opportunity to have more?!
It would be better to have three or better even four subs doing the same output.
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ttocs
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I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,155
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Post by ttocs on Aug 17, 2024 14:16:38 GMT -5
How will you get good bass for multiple seats with one sub playing LFE only? Then only two subs for the bass management when having the opportunity to have more?! It would be better to have three or better even four subs doing the same output. Easy, send Center Sub LFE and Left Sub Mono to the two inputs on a miniDSP 2x4HD, then output to all the subs - up to four per 2x4HD. I used this method until Emotiva fixed the Elevated BM bug. Since then I've just been using Center Sub Mono output with Y cable going to two 2x4HD units feeding 8 subs in two stacks of 4. My best setup to date and find it improbable to be bested except for how DLBC can be used to get the crossovers better implemented. |
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