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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 2, 2024 16:55:16 GMT -5
Well, I've learned some stuff today!
When I last ran YPAO room correction on my Yamaha AVR, I ran it for 5.2 surround (all speakers & subs active). And when I tried to play 2-chanel stereo with YPAO enabled, the sound SUUUUUUUCKED! The frequency response was wrong and there was no imaging - I could have done better with a yard sale stereo amp.
Out of desperation, I turned on the feature on my AVR that created a fake 5.1 surround from the 2-channel stereo source. And WHOA! - Suddenly it's a whole new ball game!
This makes sense. Why? When YPAO was run (with all five speakers), the AVR compensated for interferences between the speakers. But then when I played only two of the five speakers, the AVR was STILL trying to compensate for interferences that were no longer there!
The sound with even three of the five speakers active (R-C-L) was an order of magnitude better. Even in my current echo chamber of a listening room, the faux-surround was almost infinitely better than trying to use 5.2 YPAO but with only two speakers.
I think that if I ran YPAO while telling the AVR that there were no center and rear speakers, that YPAO would do an incredible job of making the stereo soundstage better! Considering the improvement with 3.0 (even with YPAO calibrated for 5.2) over 2.0 (with YPAO calibrated for 5.2), the improvement was phenomenal.
So the lesson learned here is: Run your room correction with the speaker setup you plan on listening to the most (or else save two room correction profiles - one for movie surrround and another for stereo).
Running a full surround correction and then trying to listen to only a stereo program not only doesn't improve the sound, it makes it significantly worse!
Boomzilla
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Post by marcl on Aug 2, 2024 17:40:02 GMT -5
Well, I've learned some stuff today! When I last ran YPAO room correction on my Yamaha AVR, I ran it for 5.2 surround (all speakers & subs active). And when I tried to play 2-chanel stereo with YPAO enabled, the sound SUUUUUUUCKED! The frequency response was wrong and there was no imaging - I could have done better with a yard sale stereo amp. Out of desperation, I turned on the feature on my AVR that created a fake 5.1 surround from the 2-channel stereo source. And WHOA! - Suddenly it's a whole new ball game! This makes sense. Why? When YPAO was run (with all five speakers), the AVR compensated for interferences between the speakers. But then when I played only two of the five speakers, the AVR was STILL trying to compensate for interferences that were no longer there! The sound with even three of the five speakers active (R-C-L) was an order of magnitude better. Even in my current echo chamber of a listening room, the faux-surround was almost infinitely better than trying to use 5.2 YPAO but with only two speakers. I think that if I ran YPAO while telling the AVR that there were no center and rear speakers, that YPAO would do an incredible job of making the stereo soundstage better! Considering the improvement with 3.0 (even with YPAO calibrated for 5.2) over 2.0 (with YPAO calibrated for 5.2), the improvement was phenomenal. So the lesson learned here is: Run your room correction with the speaker setup you plan on listening to the most (or else save two room correction profiles - one for movie surrround and another for stereo). Running a full surround correction and then trying to listen to only a stereo program not only doesn't improve the sound, it makes it significantly worse! Boomzilla I don't understand. Dirac and Audyssey, etc. correct each speaker separately. So you can shut off whatever speakers you want and the ones playing should still have correction specific to them, irrespective of any other speaker. Does this YPAO play all the speakers at once and apply the same filter to all? |
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 2, 2024 18:26:16 GMT -5
I'm speculating on the cause. The YPAO does play each speaker separately. But the difference between 2.0 and 3.0 (when YPAO was calibrated for 5.2) is HUGE. Unless YPAO is automatically compensating for interferences between the speakers, I have no other rational explanation. But I'm open to suggestions?
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Post by foggy1956 on Aug 2, 2024 19:47:54 GMT -5
Well, I've learned some stuff today! When I last ran YPAO room correction on my Yamaha AVR, I ran it for 5.2 surround (all speakers & subs active). And when I tried to play 2-chanel stereo with YPAO enabled, the sound SUUUUUUUCKED! The frequency response was wrong and there was no imaging - I could have done better with a yard sale stereo amp. Out of desperation, I turned on the feature on my AVR that created a fake 5.1 surround from the 2-channel stereo source. And WHOA! - Suddenly it's a whole new ball game! This makes sense. Why? When YPAO was run (with all five speakers), the AVR compensated for interferences between the speakers. But then when I played only two of the five speakers, the AVR was STILL trying to compensate for interferences that were no longer there! The sound with even three of the five speakers active (R-C-L) was an order of magnitude better. Even in my current echo chamber of a listening room, the faux-surround was almost infinitely better than trying to use 5.2 YPAO but with only two speakers. I think that if I ran YPAO while telling the AVR that there were no center and rear speakers, that YPAO would do an incredible job of making the stereo soundstage better! Considering the improvement with 3.0 (even with YPAO calibrated for 5.2) over 2.0 (with YPAO calibrated for 5.2), the improvement was phenomenal. So the lesson learned here is: Run your room correction with the speaker setup you plan on listening to the most (or else save two room correction profiles - one for movie surrround and another for stereo). Running a full surround correction and then trying to listen to only a stereo program not only doesn't improve the sound, it makes it significantly worse! Boomzilla This has not been my experience with Dirac. |
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Post by fbczar on Aug 2, 2024 19:50:35 GMT -5
Well, I've learned some stuff today! When I last ran YPAO room correction on my Yamaha AVR, I ran it for 5.2 surround (all speakers & subs active). And when I tried to play 2-chanel stereo with YPAO enabled, the sound SUUUUUUUCKED! The frequency response was wrong and there was no imaging - I could have done better with a yard sale stereo amp. Out of desperation, I turned on the feature on my AVR that created a fake 5.1 surround from the 2-channel stereo source. And WHOA! - Suddenly it's a whole new ball game! This makes sense. Why? When YPAO was run (with all five speakers), the AVR compensated for interferences between the speakers. But then when I played only two of the five speakers, the AVR was STILL trying to compensate for interferences that were no longer there! The sound with even three of the five speakers active (R-C-L) was an order of magnitude better. Even in my current echo chamber of a listening room, the faux-surround was almost infinitely better than trying to use 5.2 YPAO but with only two speakers. I think that if I ran YPAO while telling the AVR that there were no center and rear speakers, that YPAO would do an incredible job of making the stereo soundstage better! Considering the improvement with 3.0 (even with YPAO calibrated for 5.2) over 2.0 (with YPAO calibrated for 5.2), the improvement was phenomenal. So the lesson learned here is: Run your room correction with the speaker setup you plan on listening to the most (or else save two room correction profiles - one for movie surrround and another for stereo). Running a full surround correction and then trying to listen to only a stereo program not only doesn't improve the sound, it makes it significantly worse! Boomzilla This has not been my experience with Dirac. Yea, that is not true of Dirac. |
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Post by geebo on Aug 2, 2024 20:22:21 GMT -5
I've not experienced this with Dirac, either. A good Dirac filter makes both multichannel and stereo content sound better to me in my room.
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 2, 2024 20:45:57 GMT -5
Now I'm curious. I'll make inquiry of Yamaha as to whether their YPAO system calculates interferences.
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 3, 2024 15:08:25 GMT -5
I didn't find any way to email Yamaha directly, so I posted this question on Audioholics. I'll post it here also in case any a'youse guys might have an answer:
I know that Yamaha offers multiple "flavors" of YPAO and YPAO-RSC on their products. I own a new Yamaha RX-V6A audio video receiver.
I've run YPAO in a 5.2 configuration. For movies, this sounds fine. However, most of my listening is 2-channel stereo. The sound has frequency and phase problems. In fact, the system sounds best (for stereo) with YPAO off. Talking to my audio amigos, this is not uncommon.
As an experiment, I told the AVR to create faux 5.2 channel signals from two channel sources. Then I disconnected the rear speakers (lest my wife trip over the wires at night and yell). The resulting three-channel front sounds a LOT better than plain 2-channel stereo.
This leads me to ask why. I know that YPAO measures each speaker individually and compensates for room effects. My question is: Does YPAO also (electronically) compensate for speaker-to-speaker interferences? In other words, If YPAO is compensating for how the speakers interact with each other, and I then effectively remove some of the speakers (like the center for stereo listening), are the front R/L speakers trying to compensate for a center channel that's no longer there?
If so, that would explain how the R/L speakers don't sound right with YPAO on. But if YPAO is only compensating for each speaker's interaction with the ROOM, then the front R/L should sound better in stereo - not worse.
I think (although I haven't confirmed it yet) that I can store multiple YPAO configurations. If so, I might try running YPAO again with all speakers disabled BUT the front R/L (and label that YPAO "stereo").
SO, TO CLARIFY, my questions are as follows:
1. Does YPAO -RSC compensate for speaker-to-speaker interferences?
2. If so, should I run a separate YPAO profile for stereo only?
3. Should I not worry about this and just run the 3-channel fronts at all times?
Thanks so much!
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