New Processor or not?

[cmptrgydv]

Hi I have several questions about AV Processor's

first right now I have an Onkyo TX-RZ840 and i'm using a XPA-5 gen3 amp. The main reason I got the onkyo is because it has  pre outs for all the channels.
so basically i'm using the onkyo as a AV preamp. So the question is would there be any sonic reason for me to get an AV Processor. now this is being used
for 99% music but I do like the apps and features it has for music so would not want just a Preamp.

Now the second question I have is when using a center channel does that take away the mono signal from the left and right speakers or is it just adding to 
the mono signal and not changing the front left and right speakers at all.

[405x5]

I don’t quite get the order of things here but you’ve got a receiver and a separate five channel amp and you’re bypassing the receiver amp section. That’s OK what are you looking to accomplish beyond what you have?



The center channel takes nothing away from the sides. What comes out depends on the processing mode you selected.

[cmptrgydv]

Hi 405x5 I'm really not trying to accomplish anything I'm just looking at weather changing to a dedicated AV preamp would improve 
the sound quality at all over using the onkyo 

[405x5]

Oct 4, 2024 8:44:12 GMT -5 cmptrgydv said:

Hi 405x5 I'm really not trying to accomplish anything I'm just looking at weather changing to a dedicated AV preamp would improve 
the sound quality at all over using the onkyo 

I wouldn’t think so much in and of itself……… The loudspeaker type and it’s configuration along with the subwoofers makes the most profound difference in the sound and it’s quality

[KeithL]

As a broad generalization...

The speakers and the room are going to make the most difference (along with the content itself).
The amps are next (so using the receiver's preamp section with a separate amp should be a step up).
Next would be the processor or preamp... which will probably also make an audible difference.
But it's going to be less of a difference than the amps or speakers.
And, to be quite blunt, the preamp sections on some AVRs are pretty good, while some others are... not so good.

I would caution that there usually isn't a set order for things like this...
It's more a matter of identifying the weak point in your system and upgrading that first...
 

Oct 4, 2024 10:21:09 GMT -5 405x5 said:

Oct 4, 2024 8:44:12 GMT -5 cmptrgydv said:

Hi 405x5 I'm really not trying to accomplish anything I'm just looking at weather changing to a dedicated AV preamp would improve 
the sound quality at all over using the onkyo 

I wouldn’t think so much in and of itself……… The loudspeaker type and it’s configuration along with the subwoofers makes the most profound difference in the sound and it’s quality

[KeithL]

I think I would amend what you said here... in the context of his question.

With many movies a significant part of the dialog is going to be located in the center channel.
And, if you don't have a center channel speaker, that content will be sent to both front speakers instead.
So, in that sense, there is dialog that will be in the center if you have a center, and that will be in the front mains if you don't have a center.
(You're not "losing it" but it will be coming from a different place.)

The main benefit of having a center channel is this.
Without that center channel speaker, the "center" dialog will be coming from your front mains, and you will have "a phantom center".
This simply means that sound that is coming equally from your front right and front left speakers will sound like it's coming from the center.
And, IF YOU'RE SITTING IN THE CENTER, you may not be able to tell the difference.

HOWEVER, if you move to the left or right, and you don't have a center channel speaker, that center channel audio will NOT stay in the center.
For example, if you move left, then you will hear more of it from the left speaker, and it will seem to shift to the left.
This means that, if you plan to move around, or have a relatively wide seating position, or your front main speakers are very far apart...
An actual center channel speaker "pins center channel content to the center".

Another benefit is that, since a lot of important dialog is in the center, most center channel speakers are optimized for clear dialog...
And, finally, this gives you the opportunity to adjust that "center dialog channel" independently (like maybe boosting the midrange to make voices clearer).

Also, yes, in SOME modes that synthesize surround sound from stereo content, like the DSU...
They may actually "pull some stuff from the center and push it to the sides"...
(They generally don't "just put mono L+R in the center.)
(If they put something in the center they'll reduce its level in the sides to avoid an overall boost for that particular bit of content.)

Oct 4, 2024 8:30:55 GMT -5 405x5 said:

I don’t quite get the order of things here but you’ve got a receiver and a separate five channel amp and you’re bypassing the receiver amp section. That’s OK what are you looking to accomplish beyond what you have?



The center channel takes nothing away from the sides. What comes out depends on the processing mode you selected.

[cmptrgydv]

Oct 4, 2024 11:49:21 GMT -5 KeithL said:

I think I would amend what you said here... in the context of his question.

With many movies a significant part of the dialog is going to be located in the center channel.
And, if you don't have a center channel speaker, that content will be sent to both front speakers instead.
So, in that sense, there is dialog that will be in the center if you have a center, and that will be in the front mains if you don't have a center.
(You're not "losing it" but it will be coming from a different place.)

The main benefit of having a center channel is this.
Without that center channel speaker, the "center" dialog will be coming from your front mains, and you will have "a phantom center".
This simply means that sound that is coming equally from your front right and front left speakers will sound like it's coming from the center.
And, IF YOU'RE SITTING IN THE CENTER, you may not be able to tell the difference.

HOWEVER, if you move to the left or right, and you don't have a center channel speaker, that center channel audio will NOT stay in the center.
For example, if you move left, then you will hear more of it from the left speaker, and it will seem to shift to the left.
This means that, if you plan to move around, or have a relatively wide seating position, or your front main speakers are very far apart...
An actual center channel speaker "pins center channel content to the center".

Another benefit is that, since a lot of important dialog is in the center, most center channel speakers are optimized for clear dialog...
And, finally, this gives you the opportunity to adjust that "center dialog channel" independently (like maybe boosting the midrange to make voices clearer).

Also, yes, in SOME modes that synthesize surround sound from stereo content, like the DSU...
They may actually "pull some stuff from the center and push it to the sides"...
(They generally don't "just put mono L+R in the center.)
(If they put something in the center they'll reduce its level in the sides to avoid an overall boost for that particular bit of content.)

Oct 4, 2024 8:30:55 GMT -5 405x5 said:

I don’t quite get the order of things here but you’ve got a receiver and a separate five channel amp and you’re bypassing the receiver amp section. That’s OK what are you looking to accomplish beyond what you have?



The center channel takes nothing away from the sides. What comes out depends on the processing mode you selected.

Hi KeithL thank's you guys for the insights I'm fairly new at this AV receiver stuff. I'm old school receiver guy LOL plug in speakers pick source play music now I'm reading through a 202 page manual trying to get sound. so next question. Receiver has a level calibration that goes from -12.0db to + 12.0db now the lower I set the db level the higher I need to turn up the volume to get to a certain level. OK so what should I be setting this level at should I turn level to 12.0db and use less volume or am I over driving output of preamp by having level set so high. I have it set at 5.0db right now. but is this changing the output of the preamp? and can it over drive the preamp if set to high?

[aswiss]

Oct 4, 2024 22:51:26 GMT -5 cmptrgydv said:

Hi KeithL thank's you guys for the insights I'm fairly new at this AV receiver stuff. I'm old school receiver guy LOL plug in speakers pick source play music now I'm reading through a 202 page manual trying to get sound. so next question. Receiver has a level calibration that goes from -12.0db to + 12.0db now the lower I set the db level the higher I need to turn up the volume to get to a certain level. OK so what should I be setting this level at should I turn level to 12.0db and use less volume or am I over driving output of preamp by having level set so high. I have it set at 5.0db right now. but is this changing the output of the preamp? and can it over drive the preamp if set to high?

the Receiver has Functions like Distance and Level in the speaker section of the setup menu.

in order to get an even sound level, you need to adjust the Level of each speaker to the same output value.

To setup this correctly, (if you don't use the calibration programm of the Onkyo) you need a Level Meter (or a Level meter App on your mobile). 

Then start with Front Left, note down the measured value (like 75dB) and then proceed to the next channel and set to the same out put level (75dB) by adjusting the Vol from -12 to +12). Once this is done, check the distance by measuring from your centered seat to the Speaker (I point to the tweeter

I use a laser meter for this. Adjust the distance you note from the measurement in the Onkyo.

Now your done.

You can adjust the center to your own preference if the spoken vocals are not that good to understand, by adding 1 or 2 dB more, than the rest. It's not that much rocket science.

It's all about your personal preference.

[cmptrgydv]

Hi aswiss I understand the speaker setup and sound levels. very easy in my case speakers sound level is the same no matter what the db level is
my question is what is a better sound level between -12.0 and +12.0 should I set it to +12.0 db or some lesser level the two speakers sound level are the same regardless of what I set the db level at as long as the level is set the same for both right and left channels. I'm wondering how the db level is effecting the preamp output or does it not matter.

[405x5]

Oct 5, 2024 8:10:49 GMT -5 cmptrgydv said:

Hi aswiss I understand the speaker setup and sound levels. very easy in my case speakers sound level is the same no matter what the db level is
my question is what is a better sound level between -12.0 and +12.0 should I set it to +12.0 db or some lesser level the two speakers sound level are the same regardless of what I set the db level at as long as the level is set the same for both right and left channels. I'm wondering how the db level is effecting the preamp output or does it not matter.

What loudspeakers are you using?
….. and subwoofer/subwoofers (assuming you have)

[cmptrgydv]

Oct 5, 2024 8:44:45 GMT -5 405x5 said:

Oct 5, 2024 8:10:49 GMT -5 cmptrgydv said:

Hi aswiss I understand the speaker setup and sound levels. very easy in my case speakers sound level is the same no matter what the db level is
my question is what is a better sound level between -12.0 and +12.0 should I set it to +12.0 db or some lesser level the two speakers sound level are the same regardless of what I set the db level at as long as the level is set the same for both right and left channels. I'm wondering how the db level is effecting the preamp output or does it not matter.

What loudspeakers are you using?
….. and subwoofer/subwoofers (assuming you have)

A set of Polk audio SDA SRS's 

[405x5]

Oct 5, 2024 9:10:47 GMT -5 cmptrgydv said:

Oct 5, 2024 8:44:45 GMT -5 405x5 said:

What loudspeakers are you using?
….. and subwoofer/subwoofers (assuming you have)

A set of Polk audio SDA SRS's 

So what am I missing here?

You have two very large Main, speakers an XPA 5 and an Onkyo AV receiver.
Speculative questions about a center channel speaker, but it’s not there as of yet?