Solar anyone?

[klinemj]

Just curious if anyone has experience with Solar Panels in home power uses.

I'm looking into it and have a bid I like. It's using SILFAB SIL-430-QD panels that use "Next Generation N-Type Cell Technology". We'd have 38 panels on our roofs (we have a dual-level hip-roof + a hip roof on the garage). The installer is quite reputable (I have friends who used them), and we'd save 2/3 off our average electric bill.

Alternatively, another company is proposing the Solar Shingles from GAF. Technically, they are not available in Cincinnati yet, but that's expected in 1Q25. They are less proven, and they use the P-type cell tech.

Here's a link to them: GAF Timberline Solar Shingles

Aside from the slight efficiency benefits of N-type and the lack of risk of light induced degradation for N-type, I'm a little worried that the GAF product is fairly new to the market. My understanding is that they only recently came out of testing and into production and are mainly in use in limited parts of the country.

Anyone with experience on either the SILFAB or GAF options? Or, other options?

Thanks,

Mark

[405x5]

Oct 25, 2024 12:59:07 GMT -5 klinemj said:

Just curious if anyone has experience with Solar Panels in home power uses.

I'm looking into it and have a bid I like. It's using SILFAB SIL-430-QD panels that use "Next Generation N-Type Cell Technology". We'd have 38 panels on our roofs (we have a dual-level hip-roof + a hip roof on the garage). The installer is quite reputable (I have friends who used them), and we'd save 2/3 off our average electric bill.

Alternatively, another company is proposing the Solar Shingles from GAF. Technically, they are not available in Cincinnati yet, but that's expected in 1Q25. They are less proven, and they use the P-type cell tech.

Here's a link to them: GAF Timberline Solar Shingles

Aside from the slight efficiency benefits of N-type and the lack of risk of light induced degradation for N-type, I'm a little worried that the GAF product is fairly new to the market. My understanding is that they only recently came out of testing and into production and are mainly in use in limited parts of the country.

Anyone with experience on either the SILFAB or GAF options? Or, other options?

Thanks,

Mark

So far I’ve spoken with three people that I know personally who have the solar panels and experience with them……

The first guy who is a professor of electrical engineering, swears by them, hasn’t paid a nickel for electricity since he’s had them. He did have to put a new roof on the house before he could put the panels up and I’ve never seen any of that because his house is tall on a hill so there’s nothing to do but reap the benefits and hope it doesn’t leak I guess lol.

The second guy I spoke with is my neighbor across the street who when I brought up the subject just sort of looked at me and told me he didn’t wanna talk about it… why because his contractor was incompetent and the installation involved too many panels so he says he was making too much electricity which sounded like I got in the politics and ended up having to turn half of them off in order to start getting a rebate from the utility company… And the third is a friend that lives about 30 minutes from here. He’s very pleased with his installation he is getting the savings.

I put a new roof on my house about three years ago… There will be no panels on this roof.

[klinemj]

Oct 25, 2024 18:39:03 GMT -5 405x5 said:

So far I’ve spoken with three people that I know personally who have the solar panels and experience with them……

Any idea which technology panels any of them had?

We're getting a new roof, too. Ours is 24 years old and in need of replacement, so we're doing that first then getting either the solar panels or solar shingles.

The shingles get installed by a roofer as they are attached just like shingles, but I am concerned that my job would be the first by this roofer even though they are very experienced with regular shingles. (The electrical part is handled by solar experts, though).

I'm also concerned about the difference in solar cell type between the N-type and P-type, so that's of interest.

Mark

[405x5]

“N” is the way to go from what I’ve read IF you get a choice, because very often which panels you end up with our mandated by the deal you get from the installer. The installers have to network with the utility companies to get the best deal at their end.

Unfortunately, I won’t be in touch for a while with those two of the three customers that are acquaintances and one I can’t bring it up as I indicated in my other post, lol.

You have hit on something that peaked my interest which is the technology integrated into the shingles… Someday, if that becomes mainstream, I would go that way but now with a 50 year warranty on my architectural shingles …… Well; not enough savings to rip off my roof and time is against me

[klinemj]

Oct 26, 2024 7:00:50 GMT -5 405x5 said:

“N” is the way to go from what I’ve read IF you get a choice, because very often which panels you end up with our mandated by the deal you get from the installer. The installers have to network with the utility companies to get the best deal at their end.

Unfortunately, I won’t be in touch for a while with those two of the three customers that are acquaintances and one I can’t bring it up as I indicated in my other post, lol.

You have hit on something that peaked my interest which is the technology integrated into the shingles… Someday, if that becomes mainstream, I would go that way but now with a 50 year warranty on my architectural shingles …… Well; not enough savings to rip off my roof and time is against me

I'm definitely leaning the the N. That's what a highly recommended installer uses, and they've installed these very ones at a friend's house. The GAF solar shingles are P-type, so that's a downside in addition to the fact that they are a very new product and took a while to (alledgedly!) resolve early production bugs.

Mark

[LuisV]

Hey Mark... are you looking to offset electric bill costs or, along with batteries, as a potential power backup solution in the event the grid goes down?

[ttocs]

Oct 26, 2024 9:08:52 GMT -5 klinemj said:

The GAF solar shingles are P-type, so that's a downside in addition to the fact that they are a very new product and took a while to (alledgedly!) resolve early production bugs.

Mark

The question of fire control came up with one of the houses I was building in 2016 when the owners were considering going with solar shingles on the slopes in addition to the panels on the flat portions of the roof. The local fire department was concerned with the possibility that they would not be able to ventilate the roof areas with the solar shingles during a fire making fire control much more difficult. The Fire Dept. felt very limited with the flat roof portions having the requisite 36" pathways between arrays as well as the 36" perimeter for ventilation purposes. In the end the owners settled for just having the panels on the flat roof areas.

At the time, there wasn't enough practical data available for houses with the solar shingles and how they might affect fire control, so the city involved was indicating an uphill battle if the home owners wanted to pursue them.

[klinemj]

ttocs

Interesting! Given they have to be permitted to be installed, I guess that would be handled via that process now.

Also, only a portion of the roof is covered in them...so plenty of areas with regular shingles.

Mark

[klinemj]

Oct 26, 2024 17:01:28 GMT -5 LuisV said:

Hey Mark... are you looking to offset electric bill costs or, along with batteries, as a potential power backup solution in the event the grid goes down?

Offset electric bill costs and be generally greener. At this point, I won't have a battery in the system. We don't (knock on wood) have many power outages in my area. The system we're likely installing will cover 77% of our use on average through the year, with AMJ returning power to the grid and July-October nearly providing all. It's only in the grey skies of winter where we'll use much from the grid. And even then, we have geothermal HVAC so we don't use a lot of electricity.

Mark

[cawgijoe]

It’s a cost versus time equation. When will you break even? Depending what the bottom line price is, it could take a very long time to go into the black.

I personally like the roof shingles that double as solar panels such as the Tesla roof. Much nicer looking then roof mounted panels. Of course, higher cost.

[klinemj]

Oct 27, 2024 21:28:06 GMT -5 cawgijoe said:

It’s a cost versus time equation. When will you break even? Depending what the bottom line price is, it could take a very long time to go into the black.

I personally like the roof shingles that double as solar panels such as the Tesla roof. Much nicer looking then roof mounted panels. Of course, higher cost.

Yeah - the Tesla shingles are pricey. I have a bid coming in on the GAF version, but am leary of them. New to the area and new to local installers. The cost for the latest generation N-type panels is pretty good for 38 panels and a 16 kW system. Reputable company also.

Mark

[LuisV]

Oct 27, 2024 6:03:20 GMT -5 klinemj said:

Oct 26, 2024 17:01:28 GMT -5 LuisV said:

Hey Mark... are you looking to offset electric bill costs or, along with batteries, as a potential power backup solution in the event the grid goes down?

Offset electric bill costs and be generally greener. At this point, I won't have a battery in the system. We don't (knock on wood) have many power outages in my area. The system we're likely installing will cover 77% of our use on average through the year, with AMJ returning power to the grid and July-October nearly providing all. It's only in the grey skies of winter where we'll use much from the grid. And even then, we have geothermal HVAC so we don't use a lot of electricity.

Mark

Gotcha... my neighbors told me that their ROI / break even point is 9.8 years.   Based on what just occurred with Milton, they are considering a bank of batteries as their solar didn't producing enough power during the extended power outage.  

[klinemj]

Oct 30, 2024 6:44:37 GMT -5 LuisV said:

Oct 27, 2024 6:03:20 GMT -5 klinemj said:

Offset electric bill costs and be generally greener. At this point, I won't have a battery in the system. We don't (knock on wood) have many power outages in my area. The system we're likely installing will cover 77% of our use on average through the year, with AMJ returning power to the grid and July-October nearly providing all. It's only in the grey skies of winter where we'll use much from the grid. And even then, we have geothermal HVAC so we don't use a lot of electricity.

Mark

Gotcha... my neighbors told me that their ROI / break even point is 9.8 years.   Based on what just occurred with Milton, they are considering a bank of batteries as their solar didn't producing enough power during the extended power outage.  

That's roughly the same ROI I will have. And, if I lived in an area prone to extended outages, I'd go for batteries. But, they are pricey!!!

I just signed the contract to get my system going. If should be operational in March...just in time for the peak solar months!!!

Mark

[LuisV]

Awesome... good luck and keep us posted!

[tropicallutefisk]

I have no personal experience with solar, but my neighbor across the street had panels installed a few years back. In 2022 we had Hurricane Nicole come through. It was just a Cat 1, but because the panels were installed on risers to better catch the sun, the winds caught the panels and caused several roofs leaks. This I'm sure was entirely due to a poor install and not likely to occur with an experienced contractor. The only other tidbit of knowledge I can impart is from my boss. He was already to sign on the dotted line so to speak until he did a deeper dive on the ROI. Apparently in CA, there are a number of hidden costs that pushed his ROI to 24 years. I believe it had to do with charges affiliated with the grid connection. He then decided against going solar.

[klinemj]

Oct 30, 2024 10:04:55 GMT -5 tropicallutefisk said:

I have no personal experience with solar, but my neighbor across the street had panels installed a few years back. In 2022 we had Hurricane Nicole come through. It was just a Cat 1, but because the panels were installed on risers to better catch the sun, the winds caught the panels and caused several roofs leaks. This I'm sure was entirely due to a poor install and not likely to occur with an experienced contractor. The only other tidbit of knowledge I can impart is from my boss. He was already to sign on the dotted line so to speak until he did a deeper dive on the ROI. Apparently in CA, there are a number of hidden costs that pushed his ROI to 24 years. I believe it had to do with charges affiliated with the grid connection. He then decided against going solar.

Ouch on both counts! I'm not sure even the best roof mounting could reliably beat a hurricane. But, they are supposed to be mounted into the rafters - not just the decking. My installer uses special brackets that help improve the odds that every mounting bracket goes into a rafter...more than once.

And, I did check with my local energy provider and insurance agent. No extra charges from either. There is a cost to install a 2-way meter (or whatever it's called), but the solar installer has that embedded in their bill and will manage it with our energy provider also. My local energy provider is very strong on anything that reduces demand on their system. We have geothermal HVAC and geothermal assist for our water heating. We get monthly breaks from those already in addition to the energy savings. Basically, we have a straight monthly credit and a per kW credit.

As of now, I have the contracts signed for the solar and the new roof (including gutters). The roofer says 2-3 weeks...so plenty ahead of the solar install.

Mark

[tropicallutefisk]

We had a ton of "fly by night" solar salespeople and contractors canvassing the area a few years back. That's why I'm sure he got "took".

Geothermal? That's very cool! I wish that was an option here.

[klinemj]

Oct 31, 2024 6:29:47 GMT -5 tropicallutefisk said:

We had a ton of "fly by night" solar salespeople and contractors canvassing the area a few years back. That's why I'm sure he got "took".

Geothermal? That's very cool! I wish that was an option here.

For us with 6 acres, installing a horizontal loop system was a no-brainer. Even vertical wouldn't have been hard. A local friend didn't have much land and had it installed - took ~4 hours to drill the loops. We thought about a pond-based system but I decided I didn't want to make and maintain a pond even though we have the room.

Mark

[tropicallutefisk]

My uncle in Northern MN had geo and it was awesome. In Florida, where I live, it’s not really an option.

[webmst007]

Here in Australia solar is very popular as retro fits and with new builds. There are Government incentives and subsidies as well.
The grid credits are fairly low but this hasn't stopped millions of installs across the country.
We got 4.5kw of solar on the roof in 2014 installed with our power company. It was not a competitive cost compared to the sharpest price but came with a 10 year fully backed guarantee.
Last year we added over 6kw of new panels with a second inverter taking us to over 11kw total which is the max allowable with on grid systems in our Snowy Mountains region.
It reduced our bills but we mainly use power in the evening unless it's summer when the air con has to run all day and sometimes at night as well.
The inverter from the first install broke this year. To our surprise our energy company replaced it under warranty 9.5 years into its lifespan !!
This year we put in a Tesla Powerwall 2.
Very impressed.
So our payback on the Powerwall is around $130 a month.
But with our array and good power management during the day plus being part of a VPP we now earn around $150 to $170 or more a month plus we run on the battery at night.
During black outs which are frequent we run all fridges and the fish tank plus other essential gear off the battery and panels independently with the cut over automatic.
So our bills back in 2014 were around $1000 per quarter before anything.
Then they came down to around $660 a quarter. After the second panel array install last year they were still $400 or more a quarter because electricity prices jumped up here massively.
Now we're making a small profit.
I hate to think what our bills would be now without any solar.
We're on a property so we have various water pumps and other farm equipment we run which needs power.
Next planned change will be a bore pump update to a independent solar pump.
The Tesla means no more back up generators needed during a black out which is great news.