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Post by fishhead on Dec 9, 2009 14:08:30 GMT -5
This is regarding streaming of audio wirelessly to a DAC to USP-1 to XAP-1's to speakers. That is what I want to do and I'm still trying to get advice on which streamer is best and most cost effective. I've ripped a great deal of music already in lossless WAV format and am storing them on an NAS drive so they can be accessed from anywhere in the house.
I was all set to buy the Logitech Duet yesterday, but the local Best Buy was sold out and they have none in the warehouse. I guess they are waiting on the Touch shipments? They tried to sell me on the Sonos sytem, but it seemed quite a bit more expensive as they told me I needed two seperate pieces which totaled $7-800 vs the $399 for the Duet.
Now, today I'm also looking on line at the Apple TV and and it's going for $229 with an included 160 GB hard drive and Wireless N. The others have no hard drive and only have Wireless G for more money. Also, Apple TV has a free app available so I can control it from my iPhone or my kid's iPod Touch and no TV interface is then needed. There is also a controller that comes with the Apple TV that I would guess using would need a TV screen to see what you are doing. The Apple TV has an optical out and HDMI out so it seems no problem to stream digital to a DAC or to a pre-amp/processor/receiver.
All the units stream WAV, but the Apple unit does not appear to stream FLAC. Will the WAV or the Apple lossless sound as well as FLAC? Am I missing something because the Apple TV unit seems do do everything I want it to do as well as the others and it seems to be a lot cheaper while having added features such as the hard drive, Wireless N, and HDMI to streaming video and such to a receiver?
Am I missing something? It seems like a no-brainer to me since I already have an iPhone to use as a visual contoller. Will the Apple TV steam at least as high as the others and sound as good....I think the others are both 44.1/16 bit? I'd sure appreciate some input.
Thanks.
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jordo
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Post by jordo on Dec 9, 2009 15:08:56 GMT -5
I have the Logitech Squeezebox, and it works great, about half the price of the Sonos system, and personally I hate everything apple, so it was a no brainer for me to go with the squeezebox. Now it does have its own DAC so you can either use just the squeezebox and then to a preamp, or you can use the digital out and then to an external DAC, logitech also streams WAV, FLAC, mp3 and any other files I suppose you would want to stream, except I dont think it can stream Apple lossless since apple does not like external vendors to use their codecs.
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goodwinaj
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Post by goodwinaj on Dec 9, 2009 15:18:27 GMT -5
I have an ATV, and am looking forward to switching to a Duet. Nothing wrong with sound or video from the ATV, its just that the thing is on all the time (Like a DVR), and is always hot to the touch (which is normal for ATV). It would be better if it had a true standby mode.
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Post by bigred7078 on Dec 9, 2009 15:20:07 GMT -5
Sonos is awesome, especially with this years new handheld remote which has a large screen and a very sweet interface. But it is pricey as you noticed and it's really intended for multi-zone uses. This can also be used with a iPhone and uses the same interface as the Sonos remote. Overall i really like this system and it can be expanded on if you ever desire multiroom music.
The Duet is the best bang for the buck music only device i can think of. You dont need a TV screen (just like the Sonos) because everything you need is on the remotes screen. It has built in support for internet radio and pandora just like Sonos. Its a very very nice unit, and for your uses i would recommend it over the Sonos. FYI it does require your computer to be on so it can access the files (same goes for the sonos).
I use the appleTV because i liked the idea of being able to rent movies on it if i wanted too as well as play music. I also REALLY like the user interface of the ATV, super slick and easy to navigate. For me this made more sense because i have a laptop and dont want it on every time i listen to music. I can locally store music on the ATV's internal HD and also stream it from my computer for my expanded library of tunes. There is also a newly added internet radio section, but its not as good as the Sonos or Logitechs internet radio. Remember though you are pretty much locked into iTunes with this. So all music must be in iTunes. This was no problem with me because thats where all my music was in the first place. Just convert all your files into Apple Lossless as there is no difference between the lossless codecs. .FLAC is just more universal wheras .ALAC is not. If you are strictly doing 2-channel though this is probably not the best option since it requires the use of a tv screen.
Thats a quick rundown on all the units. I'm pretty sure you would enjoy them all though when it really comes down to it.
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Post by Delaney on Dec 9, 2009 15:22:07 GMT -5
AFAIK, you can use the iPhone or iPod Touch to control the Squeezebox as well. This means than you would only have to buy the receiver.
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Post by fishhead on Dec 9, 2009 16:22:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the input guys. Bigred, you sound like you're pretty happy with the ATV? Do you run into any streaming or loss of signal issues? It says on the specs that it plays WAV files also. They should sound as good as the .ALAC shouldn't they? I'm hoping I can access my files without turning on the computer also. I'm storing music on a drive attached to my wireless router N+. I can access it from all my computers, so I'm hoping the ATV would access it also. I can't see any downside to it other then internet radio being a little restricted and it having to be on all the time. For the price($229) it's going at, it seems to do a lot and the iPhone and iPod touch should make good controllers for music. I mainly want to use it to access my music files same as the other players do. BTW, I've never been a big Apple fan, but my iPhone is an enyoyable item.
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Post by Delaney on Dec 9, 2009 16:30:27 GMT -5
My main concern with regard to the ATV is that you have to have your TV on, to be able to play them tunes  |
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Post by strindl on Dec 9, 2009 16:35:50 GMT -5
I made the jump to a music server /streamer a year ago, and decided on the Logitech Duet. I looked at the Sonos and the Apple back then as well, but couldn't justify the added cost for the Sonos and didn't want a music streamer with an internal hard drive like the Apple.
As long as you rip your CD's into a lossless format, and use a very good quality external DAC rather than the ones built into the units, any of those three will sound just about identical.
I would recommend that you do not use wav files since that does not pass through the file tags and album artwork...which makes it a deal breaker for me. I use the Windows media player that comes with windows and ripped all of my cd's into wma lossless format. That worked great with the duet..all album artwork and the file tags are intact and the sound is every bit as good as the original CD. Flac would have been my next choice, but I didn't have a ripper program for that, and I already had windows media.
In a lossless format, you'd be surprised how fast that 160 gig hard drive on the apple would get filled up. My music server collection is almost twice as large as that.
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Post by strindl on Dec 9, 2009 16:37:21 GMT -5
My main concern with regard to the ATV is that you have to have your TV on, to be able to play them tunes well..that would suck right there. I love the LCD screen on my duet remote. |
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Post by fishhead on Dec 9, 2009 16:37:24 GMT -5
Would I really need the TV on? I'm actually just planning on using it on my 2-channel system hooked to the USP-1 through a DAC.
Wouldn't I be able to control it on my iPhone without having it even hooked to a TV? The iPhone has a nice screen for viewing files and menus. I haven't downloaded it yet, but I'm hoping it would work much like the Duet controller.
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Post by strindl on Dec 9, 2009 16:41:35 GMT -5
The Absolute Sound did a real nice test of both the ATV and the DUET maybe a year or so ago...let me go see if I can find it..it was really informative.
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Post by bigred7078 on Dec 9, 2009 17:13:27 GMT -5
Thanks for the input guys. Bigred, you sound like you're pretty happy with the ATV? Do you run into any streaming or loss of signal issues? It says on the specs that it plays WAV files also. They should sound as good as the .ALAC shouldn't they? I'm hoping I can access my files without turning on the computer also. I'm storing music on a drive attached to my wireless router N+. I can access it from all my computers, so I'm hoping the ATV would access it also. I can't see any downside to it other then internet radio being a little restricted and it having to be on all the time. For the price($229) it's going at, it seems to do a lot and the iPhone and iPod touch should make good controllers for music. I mainly want to use it to access my music files same as the other players do. BTW, I've never been a big Apple fan, but my iPhone is an enyoyable item. i'm very happy with the apple tv. I have really not had any issues with music playback. Here is the thing though. You need to have the music IN iTunes in order to access it. Thats the only way the ATV can see the files. It doesnt work like the duet or Sonos that can grab the music from any folder unfortunately, but thats just part of anything Apple. Here is my thread on the Apple TV emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=newgear&action=display&thread=3221&page=1 |
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Post by bigred7078 on Dec 9, 2009 17:18:49 GMT -5
In a lossless format, you'd be surprised how fast that 160 gig hard drive on the apple would get filled up. My music server collection is almost twice as large as that. true, but thats whats great about the ATV, you can still stream all your music. |
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oneliterpeter
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Post by oneliterpeter on Dec 9, 2009 17:19:59 GMT -5
I have the Logitech Squeezebox, and it works great, about half the price of the Sonos system, and personally I hate everything apple, so it was a no brainer for me to go with the squeezebox. Now it does have its own DAC so you can either use just the squeezebox and then to a preamp, or you can use the digital out and then to an external DAC, logitech also streams WAV, FLAC, mp3 and any other files I suppose you would want to stream, except I dont think it can stream Apple lossless since apple does not like external vendors to use their codecs. Ditto! Except that I do like my iPhone. Squeezebox is the most flexible and cost effective route IMO. Amazon has then in stock with free shipping, no sales tax and they always deliver within a couple days. |
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Post by bigred7078 on Dec 9, 2009 17:25:02 GMT -5
Squeezebox is the most flexible and cost effective route IMO. . depends on the user. If someone is already using iTunes, then actually the ATV is a far better cost effective solution. |
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oneliterpeter
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Post by oneliterpeter on Dec 9, 2009 19:04:40 GMT -5
Squeezebox is the most flexible and cost effective route IMO. . depends on the user. If someone is already using iTunes, then actually the ATV is a far better cost effective solution. Not true... Suppose you want to setup something in your bedroom or out on the patio. You'd still need a TV to choose the music you want to hear. The real advantage of a squeezebox duet is this... All you need is a pair of powered speakers and be within range of your wireless router. You can move or add base stations wherever you want. You can buy a UPA-2 and a pair of ERM-6.2's and just hook up the squeezebox. Because the squeezebox has it's own volume control... you don't even need a preamp. Heck... You could even hook up two XPA-1's and a pair of ERT-8.3's and a sub if you wanted and... If you already have everything on iTunes... Well the squeezebox will play directly from iTunes, music, podcasts, etc. as well as hundreds of internet radio stations and music services like napster, pandora, etc. and... if you have a hard drive with a bunch of other music on it... well... it will play that too. Apple TV is good if you want to use it with a TV. If you don't... then it's just not a good choice. If you want to use a squeezebox with a TV... Well... The Apple TV is a better choice. Not saying one is better than the other... Just giving an unbiased objective recommendation. |
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Post by bigred7078 on Dec 9, 2009 23:06:25 GMT -5
depends on the user. If someone is already using iTunes, then actually the ATV is a far better cost effective solution. Not true... Suppose you want to setup something in your bedroom or out on the patio. You'd still need a TV to choose the music you want to hear. The real advantage of a squeezebox duet is this... All you need is a pair of powered speakers and be within range of your wireless router. You can move or add base stations wherever you want. You can buy a UPA-2 and a pair of ERM-6.2's and just hook up the squeezebox. Because the squeezebox has it's own volume control... you don't even need a preamp. Heck... You could even hook up two XPA-1's and a pair of ERT-8.3's and a sub if you wanted and... If you already have everything on iTunes... Well the squeezebox will play directly from iTunes, music, podcasts, etc. as well as hundreds of internet radio stations and music services like napster, pandora, etc. and... if you have a hard drive with a bunch of other music on it... well... it will play that too. Apple TV is good if you want to use it with a TV. If you don't... then it's just not a good choice. If you want to use a squeezebox with a TV... Well... The Apple TV is a better choice. Not saying one is better than the other... Just giving an unbiased objective recommendation. We are talking about the OP. He already owns a pre-amp. If we are referring to cost, the atv IS the best value. $229 vs $399. You can throw hypothetical situations out all you want but in the OP's case the atv is the cheapest solution. Best? I didnt say that, but its the cheapest. |
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Post by akbungle on Dec 9, 2009 23:33:33 GMT -5
We are talking about the OP. He already owns a pre-amp. If we are referring to cost, the atv IS the best value. $229 vs $399. You can throw hypothetical situations out all you want but in the OP's case the atv is the cheapest solution. Best? I didnt say that, but its the cheapest. Actually the Squeezebox would indeed be cheaper, if in fact the IPhone can completely control it, since then all the OP needs is the controller for $150.00 . But......You better find one quick if that ends up being the "right one" as I think they may have learned it was too cheap.I was doing a product search and no one has it in stock and people on ebay are now asking over two hundred bucks for them. Even a normal search on logitechsqueezebox.com does not show them but I did find this link: www.logitech.com/index.cfm/speakers_audio/wireless_music_systems/devices/4098&cl=us,en |
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Post by bigred7078 on Dec 9, 2009 23:37:43 GMT -5
We are talking about the OP. He already owns a pre-amp. If we are referring to cost, the atv IS the best value. $229 vs $399. You can throw hypothetical situations out all you want but in the OP's case the atv is the cheapest solution. Best? I didnt say that, but its the cheapest. Actually the Squeezebox would indeed be cheaper, if in fact the IPhone can completely control it, since then all the OP needs is the controller for $150.00 . But......You better find one quick if that ends up being the "right one" as I think they may have learned it was too cheap.I was doing a product search and no one has it in stock and people on ebay are now asking over two hundred bucks for them. Even a normal search on logitechsqueezebox.com does not show them but I did find this link: www.logitech.com/index.cfm/speakers_audio/wireless_music_systems/devices/4098&cl=us,en lol well if your going to play that game then you can easily just get the Apple Airport express for $109 and use the iPhone to control it  |
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Post by akbungle on Dec 9, 2009 23:45:04 GMT -5
Also reading further with the attached HDD I don't think either one would work but you could do a NAS at least for squeezebox systems(not sure about Itunes). Or what I did was build a little super efficient "booksize" PC for a couple hundred bucks and you could do whatever you what. I also run my MagicJack through it so two birds/one stone.
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