ERC-1, early thoughts

[kexodusc]

I finally decided to pull the trigger on the ERC-1 CD Player over the holidays....couldn't say no. Got to spend some time with it last night and this afternoon side by side with my Arcam CD72t. That's the best player I've owned and retailed around $800-$850 in 2003-04.

I've only spent maybe 3-4 hrs on it in total - I've been splitting time with the Arcam. But I've sampled a lot of different music - I tried to play them back to back on each player for a fast comparison...Just RCA analog cables for connection.

So far the ERC-1 is out dueling the CD72 in detail, resolution, and soundstage in particular...it sounds like a much better player in most areas. There's some things about the Arcam I think might appeal to people...I wouldn't put the ERC-1 with gear much brighter than mine, whereas the Arcam is probably a bit more forgiving.

So far, so good...

[garret3037s]

What preamp and amp you using with your ERC-1? I 've mine erc1 for less than a month...and I love it...I"m not sure if only the ERC1 or using with my xpa2...I hear more detail than before...and of course less noise than my tube amp...and recently I switch to XLR from RCA...I'm not sure...but I feel the music more open/3d dimension...I don't know how to describe...maybe much noise floor than rca...
One negative on the erc-1 is I miss the first second of music on my first cd...I think I can stand with that...

Enjoy...

[kexodusc]

Jan 14, 2010 22:17:52 GMT -5 garret3037s said:

What preamp and amp you using with your ERC-1? I 've mine erc1 for less than a month...and I love it...I"m not sure if only the ERC1 or using with my xpa2...I hear more detail than before...and of course less noise than my tube amp...and recently I switch to XLR from RCA...I'm not sure...but I feel the music more open/3d dimension...I don't know how to describe...maybe much noise floor than rca...
One negative on the erc-1 is I miss the first second of music on my first cd...I think I can stand with that...

Enjoy...

Currently using a 5 year old, mid-level $1000 Yamaha receiver as a pre-amp/processor, I run it in pure-direct mode to bypass all the digital processors and unnecessary conversion. It's mated to an LPA-1 for amplification.

At some point I'll move this over to my Rotel RA-1070 back where the Arcam was in my 2-ch rig to see how it fares there. I actually listen to music more our media/HT room now despite it not being my best gear for stereo listing so the ERC-1 might stay put...decisions, decisions.

[taoggniklat]

Jan 14, 2010 23:21:31 GMT -5 kexodusc said:

Jan 14, 2010 22:17:52 GMT -5 garret3037s said:

What preamp and amp you using with your ERC-1? I 've mine erc1 for less than a month...and I love it...I"m not sure if only the ERC1 or using with my xpa2...I hear more detail than before...and of course less noise than my tube amp...and recently I switch to XLR from RCA...I'm not sure...but I feel the music more open/3d dimension...I don't know how to describe...maybe much noise floor than rca...
One negative on the erc-1 is I miss the first second of music on my first cd...I think I can stand with that...

Enjoy...

Currently using a 5 year old, mid-level $1000 Yamaha receiver as a pre-amp/processor, I run it in pure-direct mode to bypass all the digital processors and unnecessary conversion. It's mated to an LPA-1 for amplification.

At some point I'll move this over to my Rotel RA-1070 back where the Arcam was in my 2-ch rig to see how it fares there. I actually listen to music more our media/HT room now despite it not being my best gear for stereo listing so the ERC-1 might stay put...decisions, decisions.

Are you certain that the Yamaha is not converting the analog back to digital, even in direct mode? Often the direct mode is still run in the digital realm, just without any additional processing, tone control and/or filtering for LFE.

I don't know what model Yamaha you have so I wasn't able to look it up.

[kexodusc]

Jan 15, 2010 14:23:16 GMT -5 taoggniklat said:

Jan 14, 2010 23:21:31 GMT -5 kexodusc said:

Currently using a 5 year old, mid-level $1000 Yamaha receiver as a pre-amp/processor, I run it in pure-direct mode to bypass all the digital processors and unnecessary conversion. It's mated to an LPA-1 for amplification.

At some point I'll move this over to my Rotel RA-1070 back where the Arcam was in my 2-ch rig to see how it fares there. I actually listen to music more our media/HT room now despite it not being my best gear for stereo listing so the ERC-1 might stay put...decisions, decisions.

Are you certain that the Yamaha is not converting the analog back to digital, even in direct mode? Often the direct mode is still run in the digital realm, just without any additional processing, tone control and/or filtering for LFE.

I don't know what model Yamaha you have so I wasn't able to look it up.

You could be right. I have an RX-V1500. I could not tell a difference using the multi-channel inputs vs the Pure Direct but I only tried a few songs one Porcupine Tree CD. If that digital conversion is there, I doubt it's destructive enough to be noticed.

I've had other receivers that were not as friendly though.

The Pure Direct mode is the only way I can use multiple a/v inputs to compare the 2 players on equal footing though without too much cable swapping. My understanding is the pure direct by-passes all processing, but maybe that's wrong. This sounds great in pure direct mode. There are also "direct stereo" and "straight" modes that I believe don't disengage the additional conversions. If I use the 2-channel stereo mode, it does pass through the processors (and remains unprocessed), but a bit of a haze seems to be noticeable. I think it loses some micro-detail. Pure direct sounds better for sure than the just straight.

I will probably connect the units to my Rotel this weekend for curiosity sake.

[taoggniklat]

I looked through the user manual and it wasn't very clear if it bypasses the A/D conversion or not but from what I read

Pure Direct = all video disabled, including OSD. Also all DSP(tone control, lfe etc) bypassed
Direct Stereo = OSD and Video enabled, also bypasses DSP.

Maybe I am wrong on that, not sure.

Either way, I suspect that everything going into that AVR is converted to digital and then passes through the dsp or not. Maybe someone else knows more about this issue with the Yamaha.

I would venture to guess that your Rotel integrate amp will be a more accurate revealing between the two transports.

BTW, I am not trying to invalidate your original review of the cd players. I just wanted to point out the possibility that differences (or similarities) you heard with the setup you described may have more to do with Yamaha and not the transports. By all means, if it sounds good to you and you like it, don't change a thing.

[kexodusc]

Jan 15, 2010 17:42:47 GMT -5 taoggniklat said:

I would venture to guess that your Rotel integrate amp will be a more accurate revealing between the two transports.

BTW, I am not trying to invalidate your original review of the cd players. I just wanted to point out the possibility that differences (or similarities) you heard with the setup you described may have more to do with Yamaha and not the transports. By all means, if it sounds good to you and you like it, don't change a thing.

No worries. I know the Rotel is a bit more transparent than the Yamaha...that's not in dispute. That said, I think the a/v receiver folks out there really over-play how big a difference the analog-straight/pure modes make in these things. If the digital conversion process isn't destructive, you wouldn't notice anything (though I'm sure some coloration would occurs). And it is an a/v receiver with all its compromises so even in the purest modes, well they aren't as transparent as better gear.

Either way...if the Yammie is coloring the sound, it's doing it the same to both CD players. Since I'm not using the DAC in the Yamaha, I suspect the differences I'm hearing is mostly affected by the DAC's in the CD players (and to a lesser extent the transports).

[kexodusc]

The more time I spend with the ERC-1, the more I'm convince it's a profoundly better player than my Arcam.

I can hear a lot more subtle detail deeper in the music. For example, triangle shine through where before it was drowned out, brushes on cymbals sound more real. It is absolutely incredible how different the two players sound on Cannonball Adderley's "Things Are Getting Better" Cd - in particular the vibrophone's unique decay. It is captured better, takes a bit longer, and has a more realistic "ring". For some reason, Milt Jackson on the vibes really brings out the superior sound quality of the ERC-1.

Last night I threw in some Rachmaninov, Piano Concerto No. 1 (I'll go through 2-4 today). There's much more timbre and textures in the piano. My wife used the word sparkle, and I have to agree...

I put on some Opeth, Dream Theater and Ayreon last night (love the prog metal)...this player has not problem keeping up with a relentless attack of soaring riffs, crushing bass lines and high impact drumming. It plays fast and effortless.

[ricardojoa]

I wish my ears were as sensitive as urs. I am still trying to discover the differences between the erc and my 50 dollar sony cdp, . Maybe u can give me a suggeston. What should i be looking in testing the differences? Is it subtle or substantional?

Jan 16, 2010 6:52:35 GMT -5 kexodusc said:

The more time I spend with the ERC-1, the more I'm convince it's a profoundly better player than my Arcam.

I can hear a lot more subtle detail deeper in the music. For example, triangle shine through where before it was drowned out, brushes on cymbals sound more real. It is absolutely incredible how different the two players sound on Cannonball Adderley's "Things Are Getting Better" Cd - in particular the vibrophone's unique decay. It is captured better, takes a bit longer, and has a more realistic "ring". For some reason, Milt Jackson on the vibes really brings out the superior sound quality of the ERC-1.

Last night I threw in some Rachmaninov, Piano Concerto No. 1 (I'll go through 2-4 today). There's much more timbre and textures in the piano. My wife used the word sparkle, and I have to agree...

I put on some Opeth, Dream Theater and Ayreon last night (love the prog metal)...this player has not problem keeping up with a relentless attack of soaring riffs, crushing bass lines and high impact drumming. It plays fast and effortless.

[kexodusc]

Jan 17, 2010 8:54:44 GMT -5 ricardojoa said:

I wish my ears were as sensitive as urs. I am still trying to discover the differences between the erc and my 50 dollar sony cdp, . Maybe u can give me a suggeston. What should i be looking in testing the differences? Is it subtle or substantional?

Separation of instruments - listen to any jazz or classical and you should be able to place the instruments across the front soundstage much easier. I'ver heard higher end, far more expensive players do this a bit better, but not much. The top end detail is incredible. The way vibraphone and piano notes "ring" and decay, sounds much more real. The richness of vocals is quite good too.

I'd need to know more about your system and how it's setup to guess at any problems you might be having. I've owned several CD players including a Sony once upon a time and it is nothing like this.

Are you using the digital cable or left and right RCA's?

[ricardojoa]

Thanks.
Currently im using marantz Av with 6.1 input, ascend sierra bookshelf and emotiva RCA.
I was listening to enigma and i noticed slight separation on the background sounds but it wasnt really apparent. Is this what i should be looking? Like differences but not substantional differences like with a different pair of speaker.
As far as the detail from the high frequecies, i still havent noticed. Need a litle bit more time...

Jan 17, 2010 10:20:49 GMT -5 kexodusc said:

Jan 17, 2010 8:54:44 GMT -5 ricardojoa said:

I wish my ears were as sensitive as urs. I am still trying to discover the differences between the erc and my 50 dollar sony cdp, . Maybe u can give me a suggeston. What should i be looking in testing the differences? Is it subtle or substantional?

Separation of instruments - listen to any jazz or classical and you should be able to place the instruments across the front soundstage much easier. I'ver heard higher end, far more expensive players do this a bit better, but not much. The top end detail is incredible. The way vibraphone and piano notes "ring" and decay, sounds much more real. The richness of vocals is quite good too.

I'd need to know more about your system and how it's setup to guess at any problems you might be having. I've owned several CD players including a Sony once upon a time and it is nothing like this.

Are you using the digital cable or left and right RCA's?

[kexodusc]

Jan 17, 2010 18:16:31 GMT -5 ricardojoa said:

Thanks.
Currently im using marantz Av with 6.1 input, ascend sierra bookshelf and emotiva RCA.
I was listening to enigma and i noticed slight separation on the background sounds but it wasnt really apparent. Is this what i should be looking? Like differences but not substantional differences like with a different pair of speaker.
As far as the detail from the high frequecies, i still havent noticed. Need a litle bit more time...

Definitely not differences like with changing speakers, but you should be able to hear some improvements still. Better electronics and equipment will help, and proper speaker positioning, and room acoustics all are important too. I would say either of those last two being off could mask the improvements.

[jahjahjones]

How tall is the ERC-1. The products page says 4.25". The UMC-1 right at 4". I know they share the same chassis. Does the UMC-1 really have feet that are .25" taller than the UMC-1?

[RPA-1 man]

4" including the feet.