UMC-1 & 7.1 analog inputs

[mdanderson]

Can anyone comment on the performance of the UMC-1's 7.1 analog inputs since installing the new SW update. I installed mine last night and I still have no bass output when using the 7.1 inputs. I am primarily talking about 2 channel music. Thanks.

[roadrunner]

When using the 7.1 analog inputs this is no bass management nor is there any post-processing.

[kaa1954]

Have you set your speakers to small as well as "sub yes" in the sending unit?

[gocolts]

You gotta have your source do the bass management with 7.1 inputs. For instance, I set the crossovers in my Denon-3910, and the UMC-1 will only take the signal and pass it along, which is the point of the 7.1 analog input to begin with. All the work is done in the source component.

[jmilton]

Feb 10, 2010 8:16:30 GMT -5 gocolts said:

You gotta have your source do the bass management with 7.1 inputs. For instance, I set the crossovers in my Denon-3910, and the UMC-1 will only take the signal and pass it along, which is the point of the 7.1 analog input to begin with. All the work is done in the source component.

Going back to 7.1 analog hookup is an affront to people that want everything in HDMI.

[doc1963]

The UMC-1 is pure analog pass-through on its 7.1 inputs and the BDP-83 cannot do "bass redirection" on its 7.1 outs.

Since a stereo signal from a redbook CD is 2.0, and not 2.1, you will get no output to your subwoofer.

Your best option would be to use the digital outs (HDMI or SPDIFs) on the BDP=83 to the UCM and let the UCM do the D/A conversion and apply the necessary bass management and redirection.

Hope this helps.

[kaa1954]

Feb 10, 2010 8:52:34 GMT -5 doc1963 said:

The UMC-1 is pure analog pass-through on its 7.1 inputs and the BDP-83 cannot do "bass redirection" on its 7.1 outs.

Since a stereo signal from a redbook CD is 2.0, and not 2.1, you will get no output to your subwoofer.

Your best option would be to use the digital outs (HDMI or SPDIFs) on the BDP=83 to the UCM and let the UCM do the D/A conversion and apply the necessary bass management and redirection.

Hope this helps.

From the BDP-83 manual:
The following speaker parameters can be configured:
1. Size: The speaker size parameter sets bass filtering control for the speakers. The bass crossover
frequency is fixed at 80Hz. The options are:
• Large – Bass frequencies are passed to the speakers.
• Small – Bass frequencies are not passed to the speakers to reduce possible distortion. If the
subwoofer is available, bass frequencies are redirected to the subwoofer.
• On (for subwoofer only) – Specify that a subwoofer is available.
• Off – Speaker for the corresponding position does not exist. Audio for the missing speaker is
redirected to other speakers or discarded if redirection is not possible.
NOTE
The front, surround and surround back speakers are configured as pairs. Changes to the
size of one speaker will automatically change the other speaker of the pair.
2. Distance: The speaker distance parameters sets delay control for the corresponding audio channel.
The delay is to compensate for the audio propagation time difference caused by the placement of
speakers.
Speaker distance compensation is not required if the A/V receiver has the capability to adjust
channel delay and compensate for speaker distance differences. However, if your receiver does
not have such functions (most receivers do not offer these functions for their multi-channel analog
input), you may adjust them through the player. Speaker distance delay is only applied if the player
is decoding multi-channel audio. If you use bitstream audio output to your A/V receiver, the
bitstream audio is not adjusted for speaker distance delay.
Since the delay is calculated based on the distance difference from each speaker to the listener’s
position, it is important to set the distance for the front speakers first and then the other speakers.
Anytime you change the distance of the front speakers, the distance of the other speakers will be
automatically

[doc1963]

Yep, that's what the manual says, but that's not what it does. The BDP-83 will not create a .1 signal from a 2.0 channel source. It will "mix" information from 5.1 or 7.1 sources into the .1 signal for whatever speaker settings are set to "small" and send that information to the subwoofer, but it will not perform "bass steering" for a stereo (2.0) source. A .1 signal must already be present.

This is a known issue and there is information available in the "OPPO BDP-83 Owners Thread" on the AVS Forum. OPPO was/is supposed to address the issue in a later firmware update. To my knowledge, they have not.

Hope this helps.

[kaa1954]

Sorry Doc....my bad....maybe my post will help the OP anyway. I am using Oppo 980-h & it works fine.

[mdanderson]

Thanks to all for your input on this. I will just use the hdmi input for 2 channel music for now. Maybe oppo will get this known issue fixed pretty soon. Thanks again.

One more thing. I was getting plenty of bass for 2 channel music with my Outlaw 950 pre/pro and the oppo but I guess that was because the Outlaw had a 80hz crossover switch on the back for when you use the 6.1 analog inputs.

[doc1963]

In the case of the Outlaw 950, you would be fine as the 950 does bass management strictly in the analog domain.

If you would like a suggestion, you may be able to obtain an Outlaw ICBM and place it between the BDP-83 and the UMC and keep the bass management strictly analog. Or purchase a USP-1 (which I have).

However, I think spending the extra cash may be a waste as the simplest (and maybe best) solution would be to just send the digital stream to the UMC and let it do its magic. From what I'm reading, it already has excellent sound quality.

Hope this helps.

[mdanderson]

Thanks doc1963 for your advice. Maybe it is just me but 2 channel music just seems to sound a little cleaner through analog connections. I will just go ahead with what you said and enjoy the hdmi sound. Thanks again for your time.

[powerwindow]

Feb 10, 2010 11:21:16 GMT -5 doc1963 said:

Yep, that's what the manual says, but that's not what it does. The BDP-83 will not create a .1 signal from a 2.0 channel source. It will "mix" information from 5.1 or 7.1 sources into the .1 signal for whatever speaker settings are set to "small" and send that information to the subwoofer, but it will not perform "bass steering" for a stereo (2.0) source. A .1 signal must already be present.

This is a known issue and there is information available in the "OPPO BDP-83 Owners Thread" on the AVS Forum. OPPO was/is supposed to address the issue in a later firmware update. To my knowledge, they have not.

Hope this helps.

Now you got me a wondering as this is exactly what I'm doing currently, in to a HK AVR. Although I'm running a digital coax from Oppo-83 to an external DAC, in to the L/R 7.1 inputs of the AVR and the sub out of the 7.1 outputs of the Oppo-83 into the AVR sub in, on the 7.1's (all outputs are 'hot.'). I have never felt bass was lacking and my sub has an auto detect indicator that lights 'green' when a signal is present. I'm currently not at home and honestly do not remember what settings I'm using in the Oppo, but I do know I have "small speakers" selected and sub "on."
Hmmm, curious.
Tom

[doc1963]

mdanderson, please remember that if you are sending the signal from your BDP-83 to your UCM in a digital format (HDMI or SPDIF), there is only one D/A conversion performed, so the results are the same as if you used the BDP-83 analog outs to an analog pre-amp.

In other words, once the UCM receives the digital input from the BDP-83, it applies all post processing (BM, Room EQ, etc....) in the digital domain, then converts to analog and passes the signal along to be amplified.


powerwindow, I'm not sure why your results would differ on 2.0 sources. OPPO knows that BM of 2.0 sources isn't what it should be and, last I have read, they're working on a solution for a future FW update.

[rooster]

i'm still unclear on what is happening on sacd's played through hdmi. i can only select Direct or Stereo, and Direct does not include post processing. This seems to conflict with several of these posts, so I surely must be doing something wrong.

[nickwin]

Cant you just run your front speakers full range to get bass from the 7.1 in's? Or is the OP talking about not being able to get bass to output threw his subwoofer?

[doc1963]

rooster,

If your playing a SACD on an OPPO BDP-83 via HDMI, you will need to set the 83 to convert DSD to PCM.

In the case of a multi-channel SACD, the UMC should see the incoming stream as such and display "Multichannel". In the case of a stereo SACD, the UMC should see that also and display "stereo".

In either case, the UMC would, and should, apply bass management and any EQ and/or room correction that you have set.

I don't yet have "my" UMC, but it "should" (having read the manual and the hundreds of post here) work this way.

Hopefully soon, I'll have just as much "first hand" experience as I do with the BDP-83.

Hope this helps.

[powerwindow]

Feb 10, 2010 16:17:37 GMT -5 doc1963 said:

powerwindow, I'm not sure why your results would differ on 2.0 sources. OPPO knows that BM of 2.0 sources isn't what it should be and, last I have read, they're working on a solution for a future FW update.

Not sure what is going on either. I just turned my system on for first time today. Put on a little Damien Rice. Sub indicator glowing "Red." After first track played a few seconds sub indicator glowed 'green' and I am definitely getting sub information. I have my speakers set to "small" on the Oppo and Sub "On. +10dB" Also, have it set to Downmix 5.1. I know my HK is not performing BM on it because its manual states the 6/8 analog inputs go directly to the volume control, much like I am anticipating the UMC will behave.

I don't know what to say other than I AM getting sub info out of the Oppo's analogs on Redbook CDs. As to whether it is not what it's supposed to be I'm not sure. Seems to be fine on mine.
I can't imagine my situation is unique?

Tom

[mdanderson]

Feb 10, 2010 16:17:37 GMT -5 doc1963 said:

mdanderson, please remember that if you are sending the signal from your BDP-83 to your UCM in a digital format (HDMI or SPDIF), there is only one D/A conversion performed, so the results are the same as if you used the BDP-83 analog outs to an analog pre-amp.

In other words, once the UCM receives the digital input from the BDP-83, it applies all post processing (BM, Room EQ, etc....) in the digital domain, then converts to analog and passes the signal along to be amplified.


powerwindow, I'm not sure why your results would differ on 2.0 sources. OPPO knows that BM of 2.0 sources isn't what it should be and, last I have read, they're working on a solution for a future FW update.

Thanks for the additional information on what is going on in the digital domain. This gives me more confidence in the ability of the UMC-1 to produce good sound.

By the way, I have all my speakers crossed over at 80Hz in the UMC-1 and this includes the sub setting. I was not really sure what to set the sub at because I have never had an AVR that had a crossover setting for the sub. I put it at 80hz like the all the other speakers.

[mdanderson]

Feb 10, 2010 17:31:11 GMT -5 nickwin said:

Cant you just run your front speakers full range to get bass from the 7.1 in's? Or is the OP talking about not being able to get bass to output threw his subwoofer?

Yes I was talking about not being able to get bass or very little ouput from the sub. I really would not want to run my speakers on full because they are not full range. They are Paradigm Ref.20s and they go down to maybe 38-40.