Marantz AV8003 or UMC-1

[billmac]

Feb 11, 2010 12:07:24 GMT -5 pynchon said:

Bill - ok, but you are talking about used compared to new so yes, if one comes around you may be able to grab one at the prices you state, but I was comparing apples to apples - new to new - still there are a grand total of 0 used 886s for sale on ebay or audiogon right now, although one may be coming up thanks to the previous poster.

I guess you have to be patient to grab an 886 of of Audiogon or Ebay but they do pop up from time to time .

[Also, you ask me to read what you actually wrote, and I would ask the same, I never said the 886 was 3x as much as the umc-1. - I said half ($1400) - and when comparing a new unit to a new unit I am correct]

You are 100% correct as I did not see the "half" in your post just the 1/3 . My apologies on that .

There are 885s starting around 800 on audiogon - so that + integra 9.8 look like good comparison units (used) compared to a new umc-1

Yes the 885 and 9.8 do pop up more often on Audiogon and Ebay right around the price you mention.

A refurbished 886 is $500 more than the umc-1. One would have to weigh the added features compared to the additional cost which it sounds like twatkins is going to do hands-on and I look forward to that assessment.

I'm surprised to hear that reconditioned 886s are going for $1200.00, the price seems to be going up . I was very lucky that I got my 886 from shoponkyo for $999.00. When I bought it there was a 10% sale and I used the points I accumulated (from previous purchases). So the total price shipped to me was about $860.00 . I was also quite lucky that the 886 I got was not reconditioned but a brand new unit in an unopened factory box ;D. The 885 I bought was also a new unit and that was $525.00 . I have been done very well with shoponkyo and suggest them to quite a few people.

To me, the xmc-1 sounds like it will be more comparable to the 886 and umc-1 should be compared to the 885.

I guess that could be true as the 886 has a few features the 885 does not have.

At $700 you have a choice between a new umc-1 w/ the benefits of buying direct from the company or a 2-3 year old used 885 or 9.8 that is 3rd generation already.

I think the UMC-1 is the winner as far as a new unit for the current price of $699.00. I am curious as to what the updated price will be. If it goes up to $799.00 the Integra 40.1 is close in price and has a few more features the UMC-1 does not have. But I will wait to buy a UMC-1 to see if all the bugs are worked out and Emo-Q works more consistently.

Bill

[moodyman]

Feb 11, 2010 16:24:32 GMT -5 kt10r said:

#1 is the main reason i havent bought anything with audessey(sp)

huh??? Are you saying that any gear with Audessey will not be able to decode lossless codecs too?? Is this just a quirk with Marantz or something??

[chazk13]

Feb 11, 2010 17:14:10 GMT -5 moodyman said:

Feb 11, 2010 16:24:32 GMT -5 kt10r said:

#1 is the main reason i havent bought anything with audessey(sp)

huh??? Are you saying that any gear with Audessey will not be able to decode lossless codecs too?? Is this just a quirk with Marantz or something??

Just a quirk with the Marantz. I've owned integras and onkyos for a while and they can both apply eq settings to the hi def codecs. The marantz can also, but only if the source is the one doing the decoding. If you rely on the marantz to do it it can not decode and apply the eq at the same time. Most blu-ray players now decode the hi res codecs so just decode there and feed lpcm to the marantz and it's all good.

[billmac]

Feb 11, 2010 16:24:32 GMT -5 kt10r said:

#1 is the main reason i havent bought anything with audessey(sp)

The issue with Audyssey and HBR audio is isolated to Marantz units as far as I know. Onkyo and Denon do not have issues with Audyssey being defeated when using DTS-MA or DD TrueHD. Its not an issue with Audyssey but with the processing power of the Marantz AVRs and AV8003.

Bill

[kt10r]

hey chaz, will it still apply eq if youve altered it?(eq) Seems like the only reading i found on it they stated it goes back to the audessey made eq setting. it doesnt get talked about much because everyone seems to like the flat FR it creates. i personally like to make it how i like it to sound and if it reverts back when i play lossless that would suck for me.

[kt10r]

You snuck in while i was typing bill. thanks for the info

[billmac]

Feb 11, 2010 18:04:57 GMT -5 kt10r said:

hey chaz, will it still apply eq if youve altered it?(eq) Seems like the only reading i found on it they stated it goes back to the audessey made eq setting. it doesnt get talked about much because everyone seems to like the flat FR it creates. i personally like to make it how i like it to sound and if it reverts back when i play lossless that would suck for me.

kt,

I am not much of a tweaker and have been happy with Audyssey using the calibrated settings (tweaked CH levels and X-overs though). I have had several Onkyos (805, 885 and 886) and the Denon 3808. So I am not familiar with doing a manual EQ. But I would think if you opted for the manual EQ that the settings would stay with whatever input or audio format you used (outside of Direct, Pure or M/C inputs).

Bill

[NorthStar]

On a personal note; me don't like the Marantz AV8003 Surround Processor, just too many bugs and not enough processing power, that's all.
It has been well documented all over.

It's only usefulness is for straight 2-channel stereo music listening.

* Hi Bill.

Bob

[house72]

I beg to differ. You must use Marantz in your system to comment. I have been using for last month or so and its been wonderful.

[NorthStar]

Feb 12, 2010 11:23:49 GMT -5 house72 said:

I beg to differ. You must use Marantz in your system to comment. I have been using for last month or so and its been wonderful.

Hey, I totally respect your opinion as an actual owner, and I am very glad for you, truly.

I was just expressing my own personal opinion from a lot of reading that I did into it, and also talking with people that owned it too. And I really mean that; I had long discussions with actual owners. And all was not that pinky, I can assure you of that.

[house72]

I was quick to start off even my original post with the limitations it has, but for SQ I bet its really very good. PQ is a different question but thats handled by my display and I overcome EQ by using LPCM from 83SE.

I am sorry if I came across strong. I liked Integra as well but did not like the looks. If not even that was good.

Cheers

[NorthStar]

Hey, no sweat man. You did not come across too strong, but just right, the way you should.

I fully agree with you that it produces excellent sound with refinement.

You are right about the video section, and also with Audyssey that can be applied with LPCM, but not from the direct bitstream of the new audio codecs, but this is a minor inconvenience.
And the Volume is not indicated on the display, also a minor inconvenience.
There are a few other things, but I just feel to simply abort at this point, as it is not a big point indeed.

Enjoy your SP and Cheers to you too.

[twatkins521]

Feb 11, 2010 11:12:12 GMT -5 viking20 said:

Looking forward to your comparison. Also I appreciate the insight on the av8003.

My UMC-1 showed up today. I got it installed and setup pretty quickly. It will take a few days of tweaking and playing around with it but my initial impressions are "so-so" at best.

EMO-Q was turned off after running it. It did not get even get me in the ball park in my setup. It was saying my center channel was 19ft away in a room that is only 18ft deep. My LF was measured at 7.5 ft, the RF at 5ft, and the sub at 1.8ft. The sub is in the front left corner 12ft away and both LR front speakers are exactly 11.5ft from my center listening position. The Crossovers were way off also. 250HZ for a set of Martin Logan Odysseys each with their own dedicated Grotto subwoofer? I ended up doing it the old fashion way and things sound much better.

I understand a new remote maybe on the way. I really hope so. Not a fan of this one.

The unit does sound and look good. It should sound much better once I tweak it.

I do like that it locks on the HDMI signal much faster than my 886 does.

[billmac]

Feb 15, 2010 20:18:22 GMT -5 twatkins521 said:

Feb 11, 2010 11:12:12 GMT -5 viking20 said:

Looking forward to your comparison. Also I appreciate the insight on the av8003.

My UMC-1 showed up today. I got it installed and setup pretty quickly. It will take a few days of tweaking and playing around with it but my initial impressions are "so-so" at best.

EMO-Q was turned off after running it. It did not get even get me in the ball park in my setup. It was saying my center channel was 19ft away in a room that is only 18ft deep. My LF was measured at 7.5 ft, the RF at 5ft, and the sub at 1.8ft. The sub is in the front left corner 12ft away and both LR front speakers are exactly 11.5ft from my center listening position. The Crossovers were way off also. 250HZ for a set of Martin Logan Odysseys each with their own dedicated Grotto subwoofer? I ended up doing it the old fashion way and things sound much better.

I understand a new remote maybe on the way. I really hope so. Not a fan of this one.

The unit does sound and look good. It should sound much better once I tweak it.

I do like that it locks on the HDMI signal much faster than my 886 does.

I look forward to your full review when you have the UMC-1 fully setup. Especially your thoughts comparing the UMC-1 to your 886.

Bill

[NorthStar]

Ditto for me.

[twatkins521]

Well after playing around with the UMC-1 for a couple of days, I made a list of my personal likes and dislikes.

UMC-1 Likes
1. Smaller Size and runs cooler than my 886

2. Slightly better SQ (I notice the UMC-1 can be "tweaked" more for SQ by playing with cables more. It really sounds great with Signal Cable SIlver Resolution ICs. I also have some MIT AVT-1 ICs and the UMC-1 does not sound as good with them. The 886 beats the UMC-1 with the MIT ICs.)

3. HDMI Lock on speeds as noticeably faster

4. The increased voltage on the UMC-1 sounds better with my Mac amps using unbalacened pre-outs.

5. Nice intuitive GUI but I would not say it is significantly better than the 886 design except for the overly ability. It is light years head of the AV8003.

Now for my dislikes.
1. The remote is the worse remote I have ever used. I do not have a Universal Remote and do not plan on buying one to over come this issue. Most of the time I have to hit buttons twice for anything to happen. And yes, I am using fresh batteries. I'm very interested to see what the new Emo remote will be like before making my final decision.

2. The OSD appears to only be scaled for a 480p resolution. On my 65" DLP, it is very small and hard for me to see because of the size on the screen running in 1080P mode.

3. EMO-Q (I used it to start and then setup my levels via my SPL meter. I did not have to do this with Audyssey setup on the 886 to get very close to same SQ in my room).

4. No HD Radio tuner

5. No XLR pre-outs for all channels like the 886

6. No built-in XM/Sirius connections like the 886

7. I am experiencing intermittent HDMI handshake issues and speaker pops when switching between HDMI inputs. The handshake issue I am seeing is that sometimes I get video from my DirectTV HD DVR and no audio. If I switch to another input and back to the DVR, it restores the audio. Has happened 4 or 5 times since Monday.

8. I do not care for the triggers having to be setup for each input. Some guys will really love this flexibility.

9. I am having the same PS3 issues that discussed in other threads on this forum

From what I have seen, the video processing between the UMC-1 and 886 are very close. The 886 may have a sloght advantage because of support for ISF calibration per input.

I really think the comparison between the UMC-1 and 886 is unfair to the UMC-1. The better comparison will most likely be to the XMC-1.


If I had to rank the AV8003, 886, and the UMC-1 on pure SQ only. I would rank them as follows:
1. AV8003
2. UMC-1
2A. 886

My rankings on features would be
1. 886
2. UMC-1
3. AV8003

As you have guessed by now, I am torn between the 886 and UMC-1. Both are excellent pieces and right now, the differences for me are bit "nit-picky" and will probablly tick off Emo fans.

If I had to pay $1200+ for the 886 like some are reporting now, the UMC-1 would get the edge hands down (even with having to purchase a Universal Remote). But the difference in the price I got my 886 and UMC-1 is less $150 which is making me lean heavily towards the 886 until the XMC-1 comes out but my final decision has not been made.

[pynchon]

What features did you find lacking on the AV8003? Video Processing? Dual processing chips?
Can the 886 and umc-1 do the networking via dlna with video/music/photos that the 8003 can?

[twatkins521]

Feb 17, 2010 20:34:00 GMT -5 pynchon said:

What features did you find lacking on the AV8003? Video Processing? Dual processing chips?
Can the 886 and umc-1 do the networking via dlna with video/music/photos that the 8003 can?

I could write a book about what I did not like about the AV8003 from features to the terrible technical support both my dealer and I got. I'll address the specifics you asked about.

I had the AV8003 the first week it came out. Maybe they updated since then but I found the video processing subpar. I had all kinds of HDMI handshake issues that Marantz blamed on my other components. The video processor kept locking up and the pre-pro would have to have a hard reset to clear it up. That wiped out all settings and made it unuseable in my setup. My dealer gave me a second unit to test and it had the same problems. My dealer even came over one night and he was able to reporduce the issues and had no fix other than the master reset. It most likely was some the combination of devices that caused my issues. But I did not think a PS3, Mitsubishi DLP TV, and AV8003 was some exotic setup. All the issues went away when I removed the AV8003 from my setup and none of them have returned and I have switched pre-pros atleast three times since.

The AV8003 could not apply Audyssey processing to bitstreamed hi-rez formats because it does not have enough internal processing power to do so. I found that unacceptable to me especially given the price of the unit compared both to the 886 and UMC-1.

No the UMC-1 and 886 cannot do the DNLA stuff that the AV8003 can. I found the AV8003 inferior to the PS3 in this area also. Unless they have changed the unit's SW, you have to strictly follow DLNA standards for it to work. I own several NAS units that does not implement DNLA protocols to the strict specs and the AV8003 would not stream from them. All my other "DNLA" players would, i.e. PS3, XBOX360 and TVIX player had no problems with the NAS units. When my dealer took the AV8003 back, I had a Denon reciever that would stream things the AV8003 would not. I now use a Mac Mini to stream digital meida and it has worked with every server I have thrown at it.

The ONE thing I will say the AV8003 has going for it is that it sounds better than both the UMC-1 and 886 to me.

[pynchon]

Thanx for your feedback. I am considering the marantz but I can't afford it new and with those issues I'm hesitant to purchase one w/out warranty. I like the idea of superior sound, but maybe not if there are major issues. Maybe patience is a virtue?

I use a ps3 and haven't used dlna yet, but my tv, br are compliant so I was considering setting it up once I get a new receiver.

There was an 886 on audiogon a day or 2 ago @ 699, but seller got over 20 offers in 4 hours and did not sell it to me.

Have you tried dolby volume on the umc-1?

p.s. -also, from what I've read the 8003 has had 17 updates, so maybe the bugs are finally fixed ;D

[twatkins521]

Feb 17, 2010 21:26:04 GMT -5 pynchon said:

Thanx for your feedback. I am considering the marantz but I can't afford it new and with those issues I'm hesitant to purchase one w/out warranty. I like the idea of superior sound, but maybe not if there are major issues. Maybe patience is a virtue?

I use a ps3 and haven't used dlna yet, but my tv, br are compliant so I was considering setting it up once I get a new receiver.

There was an 886 on audiogon a day or 2 ago @ 699, but seller got over 20 offers in 4 hours and did not sell it to me.

Have you tried dolby volume on the umc-1?

p.s. -also, from what I've read the 8003 has had 17 updates, so maybe the bugs are finally fixed ;D

Make sure they are all DNLA compliant to the same levels. I had some wierd issues mixing DNLA v1.0 and v1.5 compliant devices.

Yes I tried Dolby Volume. I am not sure about it. After watching two nights of the Olympics with it on, I am not sure if its the NBC feed or the UMC-1 but the center channel keeps dropping in levels.

I have unhooked the UMC-1 today and put the 886 back in the system. I will watch the Olympics again tonight and see what happens. So far it has not happened in the first 30+ mins of NBC's coverage tonight.

After putting the 886 back in, I have decided I really perfer the Audyssey setup I have over what I could achieve with EMO-Q. Now to be perfectly fair, I have played with the Audyssey setup for a couple of months and only messed around with EMO-Q for a couple of days.

BTW - If the AV8003 really has had 17 updates, they should have fixed the issues I saw with that many updates. I only saw one while I had the unit and that was for to correct a media streaming issue.

Happy Listening!!