Big Dan on Emo-Q - A stunning video presentation!

[kinge]

The EQ ignores x-over points so the that when you change x-over points to your liking the EQ is already in place to fix whatever weirdness caused the system to pick a "wrong" x-over point to start with. Brilliant!

[snodog]

Lonnie has a big E on the back of his shirt

[snodog]

That was helpful Lonnie, I get mine on Monday and thanks for explaining some of the basics for us who dont have a clue about that stuff. I also like the idea of not being in the room. That makes sense that your own body is reflecting sound, maybe something most people really wouldnt even think of. Cool!

[lonnie]

Feb 11, 2010 19:12:19 GMT -5 kinge said:

The EQ ignores x-over points so the that when you change x-over points to your liking the EQ is already in place to fix whatever weirdness caused the system to pick a "wrong" x-over point to start with. Brilliant!

Ding, Ding Ding, we have a winner (and i'm not being sarcastic either). You are dead on my friend. Each part of the Emo-Q system is independant. So you can adjust each part without it affecting the other sections or having to rerun it. ;D

[lonnie]

Feb 11, 2010 19:41:55 GMT -5 @snodog said:

That was helpful Lonnie, I get mine on Monday and thanks for explaining some of the basics for us who dont have a clue about that stuff. I also like the idea of not being in the room. That makes sense that your own body is reflecting sound, maybe something most people really wouldnt even think of. Cool!

Glad it was helpful. I will try to do more of these (and try to do them a little better ;D)

[ackbar]

Feb 11, 2010 19:12:19 GMT -5 kinge said:

The EQ ignores x-over points so the that when you change x-over points to your liking the EQ is already in place to fix whatever weirdness caused the system to pick a "wrong" x-over point to start with. Brilliant!

This is great! However, it was setting EQ points for speakers I didn't have (Back Right) and not setting anything for the speakers I do have (Surround Left). It just doesn't make any sense.

One thing I noticed... the first test tone "set" (for distance, i believe) seemed to have significantly more bass than the second test tone "set". Maybe it was mentioned in the video. (Haven't watched it yet.) I thought it was odd.

I only went through the entire thing once, and did the first part a second time. It got most of the distances, except the sub correct. However, the sound levels seem way out of wack. Maybe it was due to the EQ being put into account, but since of the issues listed above, I decided not to use the EQ.

[klinemj]

Well...WOW!!!! Those were two VERY helpful videos. I love the EmoTV and this was some GREAT first content. A job well done, Big Dan and Lonnie!

And, as an engineer...I will say...yeah, FFT's are a snooze-fest, and I prefer to avoid thinking of them. But, the end result is a useful thing. I'm just glad I don't deal w/the details of those for a living.

I also like the ideas that ratmice and ICBM99 shared...nice builds.

Mark

[loopinfool]

Feb 11, 2010 16:48:17 GMT -5 lonnie said:

That would require a loop set where it scanned across the response marking each transistion point and then running a comparison of the frequencies to find the one that best suits the application. Not sure if that is possible, but worth looking into.

As someone who hasn't developed this exact kind of software, it seems to me you could:
Start at the low end of the frequency range. Watch the slope (1st derivative) and find where it "turns around" and/or "levels off for a while". I'm fuzzy on purpose because this has to be.
Then pick your crossover point relative to that, or scan backwards from there for a -XdB point.

Also, if the Xover frequency is the center of the Xover, I'd pick something higher than the -3dB point, but I suspect you actually do that already.

- LoopinFool

[loopinfool]

Dan,

First, the videos are great! This is a great example of how today's (internet-connected multi-media enabled) world is better than yesterday's (lousy thin printed manual) world.

I have a couple of quick nit-picks:

• I think you need to turn up the gain on your sub's amp. There's a 17dB difference in the trims between the back surrounds and the sub!
  
• The initial speaker screen right after the test tones had the sub at 8.9ft, but the sub was at 10.9ft when you went back to the Speaker Distance setup screen. It seemed like one continuous camera shoot, so I think something might be wrong there.
  

- LoopinFool

[pglover19]

Is there any way to get the Emo-Q videos from Dan and Lonnie in a .flv format for downloading? Someone did this for the first video by Dan.

[themagneticfields]

Feb 11, 2010 16:41:40 GMT -5 lonnie said:

Feb 11, 2010 15:48:30 GMT -5 akbungle said:

If people didn't notice Lonnie also has a new video:

EMO-Q 102
Lonnie Vaughn discusses EMO-Q: What it is, and how it works.
emotiva.com/emoq102.shtm




Excellent work with both of these!

Lonnie, just wanted to say that you used the prefect amount of tech terms to layperson speak which made your video informative and approachable. Bravo!!!

Thanks,

Interesting thought here. Over the years I have done a couple of hundred seminars. I have no problem speaking to people. But a camera is a whole other thing. To say that least, this was not exactly my best work, but hopefully it will help some people.

I thought it was great!

[jgeiger]

Feb 11, 2010 20:06:53 GMT -5 ackbar said:

This is great! However, it was setting EQ points for speakers I didn't have (Back Right) and not setting anything for the speakers I do have (Surround Left). It just doesn't make any sense.

This is the same issue I'm having, and I made a post with photos here.
emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=preamps&action=display&thread=9326

[mitchmcgee]

Hi Lonnie,

I cringed a little when Big Dan mentioned the "forward bias" he he applied when orienting the microphone.

Why not add a speaker-by-speaker mode and allow the mic to be pointed at each speaker in turn?

Then each speaker would be calibrated with the highest sensitivity the mic can produce.

Just a thought.

Cheers,

[77gators]

It seems a lot of the problems relating to the effectiveness of the Emo-Q relate to the wide disparities in crossover settings. If I don't have a sub this issue shouldn't be present at all should it?

My Salk Songtowers will go to 30...but even if I set it manually that isn't even an option..does the UMC assume that even on the full setting that nothing but a sub should be receiving below 40? And, since I am not running a sub...what exactly happens to that information below the crossover?

There also seems to be problems with the Emo-Q providing setting for speakers that don't exist in peoples systems...couldn't all this be easily avoided if the UMC allowed us to simply put "none", eliminating them from the mix, when setting up for the sub/speakers we aren't running? Hard to figure why this common setting isn't even an option.

[dotvibe]

Feb 11, 2010 22:04:25 GMT -5 pglover19 said:

Is there any way to get the Emo-Q videos from Dan and Lonnie in a .flv format for downloading? Someone did this for the first video by Dan.

Download the orbit download manager from download.com. Then use the Grab++ utility available from the tools menu of orbit. load the emoq pages, and the emoq .FLV files will show up as available for download in Grab++, select them, and download and they will download via orbit. They are about 50MB each.

[tubby]

A suggestion for future FW if possible is to be able to run speaker setup and EQ seperately.

That way users can run the EQ without messing with any manually adjusted speaker settings.

This is the way MCACC is set up. I re-run the EQ any time I move furniture or add accoustical treatments etc. and I don't have to worry about it changing levels, disctance or crossover.

[zductive]

Lonnie - thanks for the tutorial. We need more of those!

What should we do when we follow your procedure for using EMOQ exactly and the results are very very far off? Mic is mounted with clear line of sight to every speaker, room is quiet etc.

Following your procedure exactly resulted in my LCR being attenuated (-4dB) , the sub being accented (10 dB). LCR were set to 250 Hz, Sub was set to 80 Hz. This leaves a big hole in the spectra. If I change the crossovers, it looks like I have to go back to the level adjust screen so that the power from each speaker is set correctly.

I don't see that emo-q provides any information that we can use to debug the problems.
I understand your presentation and have read the whitepapers on IRC by Cirrus.

Help!

[jmilton]

EmoTV rocks! thanks for the lesson, Lonnie. You made a very complex subject easier to follow.

(Red Emoshirts are way cool, too)


However....if you remove yourself from the room when doing EmoQ (body absorption), what happens when you sit down to listen to music and re-introduce your body to the system that was calibrated based on you not sitting there? Doesn't your body throw off the settings that were made based on you NOT being there.

[ICBM99]

I think you should be in the room. Just duct tape the mic to your head ;D

[DYohn]

Feb 12, 2010 11:34:41 GMT -5 jmilton said:

EmoTV rocks! thanks for the lesson, Lonnie. You made a very complex subject easier to follow.

(Red Emoshirts are way cool, too)


However....if you remove yourself from the room when doing EmoQ (body absorption), what happens when you sit down to listen to music and re-introduce your body to the system that was calibrated based on you not sitting there? Doesn't your body throw off the settings that were made based on you NOT being there.

The degree of body mass absorption will depend on your quantity of body mass...



Seriously, your body in the room will change things subtly (as will moving around the room, adding a plant or pillow, etc) but generally not enough to make a significant difference.