DYohn
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 18,490
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Post by DYohn on Feb 20, 2010 0:52:53 GMT -5
Also please include that the volume control increments are 0 to 80 in 0.5 db steps... And note which value corresponds to reference level. How could they do that since different amplifier and speaker combinations would attain reference levels in a user's home at completely different volume settings? |
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hemster
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Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
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Post by hemster on Feb 20, 2010 0:55:26 GMT -5
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Post by johnnyg on Feb 20, 2010 16:27:57 GMT -5
And note which value corresponds to reference level.  Which reference? This would vary per system based on components, speakers. This is why it's best to use a sound meter and calibrate to one's own liking. For example, not everyone would prefer 75dB. The nice thing about standards, there's so many to choose from!  PS: Just realized this was my devilish post! Whichever one is used to calibrate Dolby Volume. According to the Dolby Volume FAQ: "For Dolby Volume to accurately maintain the same quality at the user’s preferred level as reference playback level, reference level needs to be established in the user’s room. ... Products such as A/V receivers (AVRs) can be equipped with built-in default calibration settings based on typical speaker efficiencies, or easily calibrated by the user if the AVR incorporates an automated speaker balancing feature." www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/zz-_Shared_Assets/English_PDFs/Professional/dolby-volume-faq-stb.pdfIn order to calibrate the system for Dolby Volume, we need to know two things. What volume in the room is considered "reference" and at what volume setting the UMC-1 is expecting to generate that volume. I am assuming EmoQ does this automatically, but I'd rather calibrate it manually. |
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Post by johnnyg on Feb 20, 2010 16:32:47 GMT -5
And note which value corresponds to reference level. How could they do that since different amplifier and speaker combinations would attain reference levels in a user's home at completely different volume settings? I would have assumed the channel trims could be used to do that. Dolby Volume is assuming "reference" level at a given volume setting in order to calculate how much effect to apply. I want to know what setting DV considers "reference" and how loud that should be in the room. |
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Feb 21, 2010 2:42:36 GMT -5
To me, this is a bit like buying a new-fangled coffee machine and asking it to produce the best coffee it can. I think the resultant quality would depend on the type, freshness, quantity of beans used and maybe even the water...
From Dolby Volume's PDF quoted above..
"For Dolby Volume to accurately maintain the same quality at the user’s preferred
level as reference playback level, reference level needs to be established in the
user’s room. Products such as television sets and home-theater-in-a-box systems
that come with their own speakers can be precalibrated at the factory based on
the performance of production prototypes. Products such as A/V receivers (AVRs)
can be equipped with built-in default calibration settings based on typical speaker
efficiencies, or easily calibrated by the user if the AVR incorporates an automated
speaker balancing feature."
I take this to mean that once you establish your reference level (i.e the one in your specific system, to your particular taste & preferences), then Dolby Volume will act on that to maintain constant volume. Dolby Volume comes into the chain at the end (after all the other processing).
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Post by johnnyg on Feb 22, 2010 11:50:18 GMT -5
To me, this is a bit like buying a new-fangled coffee machine and asking it to produce the best coffee it can. I think the resultant quality would depend on the type, freshness, quantity of beans used and maybe even the water... From Dolby Volume's PDF quoted above.. "For Dolby Volume to accurately maintain the same quality at the user’s preferred level as reference playback level, reference level needs to be established in the
user’s room. Products such as television sets and home-theater-in-a-box systems that come with their own speakers can be precalibrated at the factory based on the performance of production prototypes. Products such as A/V receivers (AVRs) can be equipped with built-in default calibration settings based on typical speaker efficiencies, or easily calibrated by the user if the AVR incorporates an automated speaker balancing feature." I take this to mean that once you establish your reference level (i.e the one in your specific system, to your particular taste & preferences), then Dolby Volume will act on that to maintain constant volume. Dolby Volume comes into the chain at the end (after all the other processing). I don't agree that you can translate reference level needs to be established in the user’s room to mean you can pick whetever level you want and call it reference. Accordiing to the Dolby Volume Technical Paper "audio content is mastered and expected to be reproduced at a specific reference level in theatres equipped with Dolby processors (85 dB C-weighted measurement of pink noise in one channel, or a setting of 7 on a Dolby cinema processor)." www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/zz-_Shared_Assets/English_PDFs/Professional/dolby-volume-tv-techpaper.pdfRemember, Dolby Volume is not simply a volume equalizer. The further the volume is from "reference" level the more equalization is added to account for the volume dependent frequency response of human auditory perception. What it comes down to is this...I would like to know what setting on the volume control (0 to 80) is considered by Dolby Volume to be the reference level - the level at which there is no equalization applied to the signal by Dolby Volume. |
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Post by johnnyg on Feb 23, 2010 20:15:29 GMT -5
One other request for the manual, although it might make for a good Lonnie video, is a description of each of the modes available under the "Advanced Playback" menu and why you would choose one over another.
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Post by Mike Ronesia on Feb 24, 2010 4:29:45 GMT -5
One other request for the manual, although it might make for a good Lonnie video, is a description of each of the modes available under the "Advanced Playback" menu and why you would choose one over another. Can you add that DVD to the back sleeve with the other one? |
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Post by sbavnut on Feb 24, 2010 10:15:14 GMT -5
What it comes down to is this...I would like to know what setting on the volume control (0 to 80) is considered by Dolby Volume to be the reference level - the level at which there is no equalization applied to the signal by Dolby Volume. Johnny - I guess that people are trying to tell you this... Say, you have speakers that have a sensitivity of 85db and I have speakers that have a sensitivity of 95db, then you may, in your room achieve the reference SPL (of 85db) at the UMC-1 volume level of 60, whereas I may, in my room, achieve the reference SPL (of 85 db) at the UMC-1 volume level of 50. The only way to know is to use a SPL meter and find the UMC-1 volume level at which you are constantly hitting the reference SPL of 85 db... |
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Post by johnnyg on Feb 24, 2010 12:46:17 GMT -5
What it comes down to is this...I would like to know what setting on the volume control (0 to 80) is considered by Dolby Volume to be the reference level - the level at which there is no equalization applied to the signal by Dolby Volume. Johnny - I guess that people are trying to tell you this... Say, you have speakers that have a sensitivity of 85db and I have speakers that have a sensitivity of 95db, then you may, in your room achieve the reference SPL (of 85db) at the UMC-1 volume level of 60, whereas I may, in my room, achieve the reference SPL (of 85 db) at the UMC-1 volume level of 50. The only way to know is to use a SPL meter and find the UMC-1 volume level at which you are constantly hitting the reference SPL of 85 db... I understand that. What I'm trying to say is that there is a particular volume setting on the UMC-1 where Dolby Volume is expecting reference level will be achieved. (Whether or not it is achieved at that setting is a separate issue, but it seems the one people are getting hung up on.) Below that setting bass and treble get boosted, above it they either get cut (full implementation) or stay flat (half implementation). I'd like to know where that is within the 0-80 volume control range. Continuing with your example, suppose we both sit down to watch a movie in our respective rooms, you set your volume to 30 and I set mine to 40, and we both activate Dolby Volume. We should be listening at about the same SPL in the room given our speaker efficiencies, but you will have a lot more bass and treble boost than I will because your volume "knob" is further below the "reference" position than mine. Which one of use is closer to how DV is intended to work? Without knowing the reference point we don't know, and if I wanted to calibrate my system for using DV using speaker trims I can't. Maybe highly efficient speakers are the reason some are reporting DV boosts the bass way too much - because they listen at a much lower setting and get more bass and treble boost. |
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Post by johnnyg on Feb 24, 2010 12:48:27 GMT -5
Can you add that DVD to the back sleeve with the other one? ? |
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Post by roadrunner on Feb 24, 2010 16:44:24 GMT -5
johnnyg
You are looking for someone to provide a "static" reference value for DV. The problem is that reference is calculated and constantly changing as an algorithm monitors multiple points needed to determine what actions it needs to take. This is a fluid process and Dolby Labs may be the only source that can provide you with the identity of the monitored points
I further suspect that Dolby Labs will not reveal those points nor is it likely to reveal what DV does in determining those action points. This is their intellectual property and is fiercely guarded.
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Post by johnnyg on Feb 24, 2010 18:10:15 GMT -5
johnnyg You are looking for someone to provide a "static" reference value for DV. The problem is that reference is calculated and constantly changing as an algorithm monitors multiple points needed to determine what actions it needs to take. This is a fluid process and Dolby Labs may be the only source that can provide you with the identity of the monitored points I further suspect that Dolby Labs will not reveal those points nor is it likely to reveal what DV does in determining those action points. This is their intellectual property and is fiercely guarded. I'm not after any proprietary Dolby information. They mention in their tech paper that the reference volume is 85 dB C-weighted. From the Dolby Volume FAQ: "Do products with Dolby Volume require calibration, and if so, how is it performed? For Dolby Volume to accurately maintain the same quality at the user’s preferred level as reference playback level, reference level needs to be established in the user’s room. ... Products such as A/V receivers (AVRs) can be ... easily calibrated by the user if the AVR incorporates an automated speaker balancing feature." I would like to calibrate my speakers for DV, here's what I need: 1. SPL Meter - check 2. Adjustable speaker trim tabs on prepro - check 3. Speaker test tones for SPL measurement - check 4. Reference level for SPL in room - check (85db) 5. Volume setting at which DV is expecting test tones to be 85db - ? |
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Post by Mike Ronesia on Feb 24, 2010 18:47:33 GMT -5
Can you add that DVD to the back sleeve with the other one? ? The other one I requested (EmoQ). At this point they do not ship with any disks, but I'm sure to help us out they will, right Dann.  |
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Which reference? This would vary per system based on components, speakers. This is why it's best to use a sound meter and calibrate to one's own liking. For example, not everyone would prefer 75dB. 
