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Post by natettu on May 6, 2010 12:30:26 GMT -5
I have a quick question regarding the UMC-1 and its subwoofer capabilities.
I should be receving my unit within a week or so and unless it just doesn't work at all I do plan on keeping it. I'm trying to design a subwoofer using some passive radiators and it I need to have a high pass filter on it to protect it from ultra low frequencies.
I was wondering, does the UMC-1 have an adjustable high pass filter that I could use for the sub? I would need the filter to be applied somewhere between 10-20Hz. Also, if it does have a filter, do you know how fast it drops off after the cutoff?
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Post by Nemesis.ie on May 6, 2010 12:43:20 GMT -5
I don't believe it has what you are after at the moment.
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Post by bfisher on May 6, 2010 15:59:19 GMT -5
Not that I'm aware of - only a single filter per channel... for LFE it passes below, for speakers it passes above.
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Post by natettu on May 6, 2010 20:53:04 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies guys. I'm definately still getting the UMC, but I just may have to look for an off the shelf solution for what I'm needing. Does anyone have any cheap recommendations?
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emo4me
Seeker Of Truth
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Post by emo4me on May 7, 2010 16:08:50 GMT -5
I said it before and I'll say it again: forget EmoQ (the way it's currently implemented). It doesn't provide the controls you need. There are no EQs available for the subwoofer out. There are only fixed frequency/bandwidth EQs for the LFE in (22, 28, 35, 44, 56, 72, 89, 114, 141, 180, 224Hz) and very coarse fixed frequency/bandwidth EQs for the other channels (31.5, 63, 125, 190, 250, 500, 1000, 2200, 4500, 9000, 18000 Hz) that are applied BEFORE their signals get crossed over and redirected to the subwoofer summing stage. The correct way to optimize the low frequency response it is to EQ the acoustic sum (all speakers playing at the same time) of all low frequency sources, i.e. subwoofer and satellite speakers. If you set the crossover to 80Hz for your main speakers, would the “subwoofer out” change when using the 31.5 and 63 EQ for the “main speakers”? |
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Post by ksuvet on May 7, 2010 20:48:55 GMT -5
I'd like to thank the people in this thread that have been making measurements, graphs, comments, etc. on this issue. It helps to have someone checking this stuff for a REW noob like me. We really need some comments from Lonnie on this, because I just can't see any reason why anyone would want a LFE-only EQ. Can this not be fixed so it works as an actual subwoofer EQ? Regardless of the fixed band argument, I was looking forward to using the UMC to make some stop-gap adjustments as I learn REQ and continue to upgrade and add equipment. It was highly disappointing a few weeks ago, after purchasing the external sound card and spending hours fumbling through the setup and calibration of REQ, to find that my changes were having no effect on the graphs!
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emo4me
Seeker Of Truth
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Post by emo4me on May 8, 2010 12:48:00 GMT -5
While trying to figure out how the bass management is implemented, I discovered that the "SubWoofer" EQ is not past the summing stage but somewhere in front of it:  So it's not a subwoofer EQ but a LFE channel EQ... Best, Markus Where is the EQ for all of the other channels implemented? Before or after the LP/HP filters? Thanks, Mike |
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ntrain42
Emo VIPs 
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be home before breakfast!
Posts: 2,969
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Post by ntrain42 on May 8, 2010 13:45:43 GMT -5
Is Markus sure about his assumptions on how the xover and EQ work? I PM'd Lonnie, but have yet to hear any definitive and I have yet to find if its been posted anywhere.
When playing 2 channel stereo through my cd player, the EmoQ main L/R 11 band EQ works and so does the high pass xover to them. The subwoofer also gets the "summed" stereo signal but there does not seem to be a working lowpass xover for it and the 11 band sub eq does not function. I really would like to hear from Lonnie the real beef on if this is just a firmware issue that can be corrected and updated or if its a hardware limitation. One of the big selling points of the UMC-1 was the hi/lo 12/24db xover and the independant channel 11 band EQ(especially for the sub). To have the sub(LFE)output xover and EQ not work when listening to regular cd's really kills alot of the usefulness of the processor for me.
And if the sub xover and 11 band EQ are supposed to work, are they only able to work through specific inputs? RIght now Im using 2 channel rca inputs from my cd player, but I can use digital coaxial as well(which means the UMC-1 would also be using its own DACs)if that will allow the lfe xover and eq to work.
Vince and Nick at Emotiva both said the subwoofer channel and 11 band EQ should work for regular 2 channel listening.............they have both stated this repeatedly on the phone and say I have a hardware issue. I really hope this is the case, but still waiting to hear it out of the horses mouth directly.
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Post by moodyman on May 8, 2010 21:38:11 GMT -5
Is Markus sure about his assumptions on how the xover and EQ work? I PM'd Lonnie, but have yet to hear any definitive and I have yet to find if its been posted anywhere. When playing 2 channel stereo through my cd player, the EmoQ main L/R 11 band EQ works and so does the high pass xover to them. The subwoofer also gets the "summed" stereo signal but there does not seem to be a working lowpass xover for it and the 11 band sub eq does not function. I really would like to hear from Lonnie the real beef on if this is just a firmware issue that can be corrected and updated or if its a hardware limitation. One of the big selling points of the UMC-1 was the hi/lo 12/24db xover and the independant channel 11 band EQ(especially for the sub). To have the sub(LFE)output xover and EQ not work when listening to regular cd's really kills alot of the usefulness of the processor for me. And if the sub xover and 11 band EQ are supposed to work, are they only able to work through specific inputs? RIght now Im using 2 channel rca inputs from my cd player, but I can use digital coaxial as well(which means the UMC-1 would also be using its own DACs)if that will allow the lfe xover and eq to work. Vince and Nick at Emotiva both said the subwoofer channel and 11 band EQ should work for regular 2 channel listening.............they have both stated this repeatedly on the phone and say I have a hardware issue. I really hope this is the case, but still waiting to hear it out of the horses mouth directly. Lonnie has confirmed that the sub EQ and low pass filter are for the LFE channel only.... see replies #133 - #136 of this thread... |
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Post by weeman on May 8, 2010 22:25:40 GMT -5
Can anyone even confirm if the eq is working for the LFE channel with the latest beta 2 firmware?
I know the eq is only for the LFE channel and not the summed sub out but I can't even get it working with the LFE channel. I have tested this with a DVE test bluray transmitting TrueHD via HDMI and on the dedicated LFE tests the eq still has no effect what so ever!
This is a UMC-1 i received 2 days ago and the first thing i did was load the latest beta 2 firmware.
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Post by markus on May 9, 2010 7:27:28 GMT -5
If you set the crossover to 80Hz for your main speakers, would the “subwoofer out” change when using the 31.5 and 63 EQ for the “main speakers”? Yes. EQ is applied before low/high pass filter. |
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Post by markus on May 9, 2010 7:32:41 GMT -5
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Post by markus on May 9, 2010 7:43:25 GMT -5
Can anyone even confirm if the eq is working for the LFE channel with the latest beta 2 firmware? LFE EQ on DD 5.1 works for me but I've never tested a TrueHD bitstream. Is there any LFE content routed to your sub? If yes, then EQs should work. |
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emo4me
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 5
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Post by emo4me on May 9, 2010 11:34:09 GMT -5
Where is the EQ for all of the other channels implemented? Before or after the LP/HP filters? My latest guess:  I am no expert but this EQ management design looks like it would do the job for me. It would have been nice to have EQ for the summed sub out but I would think this will work for me unless I need to correct low frequency room modes with EQ. Then would I use something like a BFD? |
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Post by markus on May 9, 2010 15:36:40 GMT -5
I would think this will work for me unless I need to correct low frequency room modes with EQ. Then would I use something like a BFD? Yes. The UMC-1's EQs are way to coarse and at the wrong location within signal routing to be useful. |
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Post by loopinfool on May 10, 2010 13:37:25 GMT -5
Yes. The UMC-1's EQs are way to coarse and at the wrong location within signal routing to be useful. I still think they're plenty useful. However, it's hard to consider it "room correction" if the EQs aren't applied to the output stage (right before or after "gain" at the bottom of the diagram). I sincerely hope this is a firmware-only feature and could potentially be changed or have a user option for it. I'm guessing it's deep in the Cirrus code -- possible but unlikely to change. - LoopinFool |
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Post by markus on May 10, 2010 14:09:05 GMT -5
However, it's hard to consider it "room correction" if the EQs aren't applied to the output stage (right before or after "gain" at the bottom of the diagram). I agree that EQ should be applied to the outs not the ins. But why would those graphic EQs become more useful at other locations within the signal flow? |
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Post by weeman on May 10, 2010 16:38:36 GMT -5
Can anyone even confirm if the eq is working for the LFE channel with the latest beta 2 firmware? LFE EQ on DD 5.1 works for me but I've never tested a TrueHD bitstream. Is there any LFE content routed to your sub? If yes, then EQs should work. Well my LFE eq isn't working at all. Watched some TV shows and movies in DD 5.1 last night and setting all the LFE eq's to +10 db made no difference at all. I've got another UMC-1 coming later this week so will see if it is any different. Regardless it looks like I'm going to be getting a FBQ2496 for bass management. I've also noticed that even adding +2db gain to eq on the main channels adds audible distortion, it really looks like the eq system on the UMC-1 is a waste of time. I hope Emotiva corrects these issues with the XMC-1. |
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Post by moodyman on May 10, 2010 17:17:07 GMT -5
Well my LFE eq isn't working at all. Watched some TV shows and movies in DD 5.1 last night and setting all the LFE eq's to +10 db made no difference at all. I've got another UMC-1 coming later this week so will see if it is any different. That is not a reliable method of testing the LFE EQ. A soundtrack may have little or no info on the LFE channel. |
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Post by weeman on May 10, 2010 18:08:45 GMT -5
Well my LFE eq isn't working at all. Watched some TV shows and movies in DD 5.1 last night and setting all the LFE eq's to +10 db made no difference at all. I've got another UMC-1 coming later this week so will see if it is any different. That is not a reliable method of testing the LFE EQ. A soundtrack may have little or no info on the LFE channel. Maybe so, but using a bluray test disc with dedicated .1 lfe tests shows the same results. How do you suggest I test the LFE channel eq? |
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