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Post by sharkman on Dec 1, 2012 15:16:46 GMT -5
I don't recall this issue with computer as source on the release of the XDA-1. Funny that the second generation DAC would have an issue. Hopefully they can quickly resolve it. I have 2 questions.
1) How is a firmware update done on the XDA-2? Is it user friendly?
2) Since it uses the same DAC as the XDA-1, does it have the same volume limitation, a lossy volume control?
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Post by garbulky on Dec 1, 2012 15:20:54 GMT -5
I can answer 2 for you. No it does not have this limitation. It has an analog volume control of sorts. Two separate analog ones. One for the line outs and one for the headphone.
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Post by sharkman on Dec 1, 2012 16:54:40 GMT -5
Okay, that's good to know. I guess that implementation gets them around the limitations of the chipset.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,945
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Post by KeithL on Dec 6, 2012 18:11:53 GMT -5
Here are the latest details about the "screeching” issue on the XDA-2 USB inputs.....
We know what is causing it, and have developed a reliable fix for it!
We have determined that the issue is caused by an unexpected interaction between the firmware installed on the first batch of XDA-2 units shipped, the hardware in some of those units, and the USB ports in certain few computers. The issue occurs infrequently, and is equally likely to occur on Windows XP, Windows 7, or Apple computers. Also, since it usually occurs on only some of the USB ports on a given computer, simply switching USB ports often cures it. We have modified the firmware to avoid the issue entirely with all units shipped after the first batch. The firmware change does NOT otherwise affect the way the XDA-2 sounds, or its overall reliability, and there is absolutely no reason to upgrade to the newer firmware UNLESS you are experiencing the problem. Also, in case you were wondering, this issue ONLY affects the USB inputs.
We currently have a version of the firmware updater that works reliably on Windows XP, which we will have available (with instructions) early next week. We are working to develop a version that will work on Windows 7, but we aren’t sure whether we will be able to do so. We therefore suggest that Windows 7 users who have the problem bear with us for a few weeks and see if we succeed before doing anything – or send in their XDA-2 for the update. We encourage users who are experiencing the issue and are running Apple computers, who don't have access to a computer running Windows XP, and those who don’t want to wait on the Windows 7 updater, to call our Support department and make arrangements for us to update your XDA-2 at no expense to you. We will issue you an RMA number for the repair, along with a call tag (we will do the update for free, and we will pay the shipping both ways).
Incorrect use of the updater, which includes attempting to run it on Windows 7, WILL result in the affected XDA-2 unit being unable to recognize the USB input, and requiring that the unit be sent in to us. Because of this, we ask anyone who is experiencing the issue to contact Emotiva support right away; they will make the determination of whether to send you the updater to run yourself, or whether your XDA-2 should be returned here for the update. We will ask that anyone who is sent the updater NOT post it anywhere, and that nobody "find" a copy and run it unless instructed to by our support department.
We thank you for your patience in this matter..... and we will be extending your 30 day trial period until the fix is delivered.
We will also be putting a new set of drivers up shortly, which is more convenient to install, and which supports additional versions of Windows, but the drivers are not the cause of the “screeching” issue and do not fix it. Likewise, while other drivers for the CM6631 USB chip may well work with the XDA-2, they will not eliminate the problem either, and we recommend that you use the drivers provided by Emotiva with your XDA-2.
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Post by paradigmE on Dec 6, 2012 18:39:01 GMT -5
Serious Thumbs up! Although not directly affected since I havent made my XDA-2 purchase yet, I was still following this daily and think the way this was handled was another A+ for transparency on Emotivas end. Great work Keith and staff.
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Post by bargain on Dec 7, 2012 2:37:08 GMT -5
Likewise. I haven't bought one yet but was watching the progress of this issue with interest. Super impressed with Emotiva's response time!
Australia loves your work Emo, keep it up!
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,945
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Post by KeithL on Dec 7, 2012 9:47:49 GMT -5
This came up in another forum, so I'm posting the reply here as well.... ALL units except those shipped in the first batch (on the first day or two), will have the new firmware. I will also tell you that the one minor difference in the new firmware that you may notice (other than the problem being gone) is that it will no longer do 176k via USB in Windows 7 (this is not a speed limitation; 192k still works fine). Unfortunately, the part of the code that was causing the problem was related to the odd clock rate needed to cover 176k. 88.2k via USB will still work fine with all operating systems, and this doesn't affect the support for ALL sample rates using the other inputs. I still have to verify it, but I'm pretty sure 176k will still work in USB on Windows XP and probably on Apples. Serious Thumbs up! Although not directly affected since I havent made my XDA-2 purchase yet, I was still following this daily and think the way this was handled was another A+ for transparency on Emotivas end. Great work Keith and staff.
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Post by rohrej on Dec 7, 2012 18:24:11 GMT -5
This came up in another forum, so I'm posting the reply here as well.... ALL units except those shipped in the first batch (on the first day or two), will have the new firmware. I will also tell you that the one minor difference in the new firmware that you may notice (other than the problem being gone) is that it will no longer do 176k via USB in Windows 7 (this is not a speed limitation; 192k still works fine). Unfortunately, the part of the code that was causing the problem was related to the odd clock rate needed to cover 176k. 88.2k via USB will still work fine with all operating systems, and this doesn't affect the support for ALL sample rates using the other inputs. I still have to verify it, but I'm pretty sure 176k will still work in USB on Windows XP and probably on Apples. I'm going to wait on the outcome of that test, since I'm using a Mac and the screeching only affects 44.1k for me, I'd rather not give up 176k to get back 44.1k.
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Post by garbulky on Dec 7, 2012 18:49:18 GMT -5
This came up in another forum, so I'm posting the reply here as well.... ALL units except those shipped in the first batch (on the first day or two), will have the new firmware. I will also tell you that the one minor difference in the new firmware that you may notice (other than the problem being gone) is that it will no longer do 176k via USB in Windows 7 (this is not a speed limitation; 192k still works fine). Unfortunately, the part of the code that was causing the problem was related to the odd clock rate needed to cover 176k. 88.2k via USB will still work fine with all operating systems, and this doesn't affect the support for ALL sample rates using the other inputs. I still have to verify it, but I'm pretty sure 176k will still work in USB on Windows XP and probably on Apples. I'm going to wait on the outcome of that test, since I'm using a Mac and the screeching only affects 44.1k for me, I'd rather not give up 176k to get back 44.1k. True. I also hope that they will work on it in the future and maybe get the ability back for 176K (since it can be done on xp). But it's not that big of a deal for me ad I can live without it. I just would like the ability for high res like 88, 96 and 192. So I'm happy enough.
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Post by Dark Ranger on Dec 7, 2012 21:28:06 GMT -5
I've already sent a request to Emotiva support for authorization to run the firmware updater next week. Figured I'd save them shipping fees and do it myself. I will let you guys know the outcome on Mac and Windows.
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Post by hostility on Dec 8, 2012 8:59:41 GMT -5
im receiving my xda2 on monday (damn weekends) so i will have to test this out!
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Post by Samuel on Dec 10, 2012 20:02:28 GMT -5
I've already sent a request to Emotiva support for authorization to run the firmware updater next week. Figured I'd save them shipping fees and do it myself. I will let you guys know the outcome on Mac and Windows. Just wondering if you have received the updater and new firmware yet. If you do the update please let us know, cant wait. Thanks Sam
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Post by Dark Ranger on Dec 10, 2012 22:35:21 GMT -5
Hi Sam, I haven't received the updater yet. I did contact the support folks and have formally requested an updater. However, I'm told that the update process is undergoing final testing. Not sure when it'll be ready. So, patience for now.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,945
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Post by KeithL on Dec 10, 2012 22:56:14 GMT -5
I figured I'd give you a bit more detail on the subject.... The issue has nothing whatsoever to do with the DAC chip itself; it has to do with the USB interface chip (which is a separate chip). The way computers talk to USB devices is described/defined by various classes of operation. The USB interface on the XDA-1 operated in USB Audio Class 1 (UAC1), which most computer operating systems support without extra drivers. UAC1 is limited to 24/96 on most computers (actually, it isn't explicitly limited, but it's only specified to support up to that speed). It so happens that the USB interface chip in the XDA-1 only went to 24/48 anyway, so this wasn't a problem. Due to popular demand, we decided to raise the support on the XDA-2 to 24/192. In order to do so we had to switch to a different USB interface chip and, in order to get those speeds, it had to operate in USB Audio Class 2 (UAC2). UAC2 is newer, and more advanced, but Windows doesn't have the drivers for it built in, which is why you have to load drivers. There happen to be a very limited number of available types of UAC2 chips that support 24/192, and we chose the C-Media CM6631, which is probably the most popular chip of that type in use today for high-end DACs. Unfortunately, the CM6631 is still VERY new, and there are various versions of firmware available for it that each have different benefits and... err... costs. We decided we wanted to support 176k, and the only way to do that was to load the absolute latest firmware in the CM6631 - and it worked great with the computers we tested it with. Unfortunately, we couldn't test it with ALL computers, and it turned out that it has compatibility issues with some USB ports on some computers. THAT is "the issue". So, in short, the firmware we're talking about is the firmware for the USB interface chip itself, and the fix is to load a version of the firmware that, while it doesn't support 176k with the drivers that go with most versions of Windows, is absolutely stable and reliable with all computers and ports and not just some of them. 1) The firmware update is done through the USB port, from a computer running a firmware updater (provided by C-Media). The update itself takes about three minutes, but there's a catch. At the moment the updater works very reliably under Windows XP, but doesn't work under Windows 7. So, for the moment, we're only going to send it to people who are running Windows XP - on a case-by-case basis. If we get the current updater to work with Windows 7, or get a newer one that does, then we'll offer it to Windows 7 users as well. I don't really expect we'll ever see a version that runs on Mac (sorry, guys), but, if we do, then we'll make that one available too. 2) The volume control in the XDA-1 was a digital control (actually implemented in the DAC). While it offered near-perfect channel tracking, and other benefits, it did reduce the resolution of the digital signal when set to low levels - which resulted in a "graininess" that was noticeable to some people. The volume control in the XDA-2 is a digitally controlled analog ladder network, which is implemented outside the DAC, and which does NOT adversely influence sound quality, even at very low level settings. [With the XDA-1, the best sound was obtained with the volume set to 80 - which is "full up". Because the volume control on the XDA-2 is analog, it is actually possible for full scale digital signals to overload it if you set it to full up (+12 dB). We therefore suggest, if you plan to use the XDA-2 at "fixed level", you set the volume to "0 dB" to avoid any possibility of clipping or distortion with especially loud signals. Because the volume control on the XDA-2 is analog, you will get the same great sound quality with any setting you use - as long as you don't clip it it ] I don't recall this issue with computer as source on the release of the XDA-1. Funny that the second generation DAC would have an issue. Hopefully they can quickly resolve it. I have 2 questions. 1) How is a firmware update done on the XDA-2? Is it user friendly? 2) Since it uses the same DAC as the XDA-1, does it have the same volume limitation, a lossy volume control?
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Post by mercury on Oct 24, 2013 20:33:57 GMT -5
I just got my xda2 today. Hook it up to my marantz cd player via co axial and to my airmotiv4 via xrca.Powered it on, check! But was surprised there was no info displayed on the LCD display. What could be the problem? Played couple of CDs great sound from what I had before, all buttons working and functioning on the unit and remote but unfortunately no display at all. Need help. Thanks!
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hemster
Global Moderator
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,920
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Post by hemster on Oct 24, 2013 20:35:24 GMT -5
I just got my xda2 today. Hook it up to my marantz cd player via co axial and to my airmotiv4 via xrca.Powered it on, check! But was surprised there was no info displayed on the LCD display. What could be the problem? Played couple of CDs great sound from what I had before, all buttons working and functioning on the unit and remote but unfortunately no display at all. Need help. Thanks! I know this is going to sound silly... but do check to ensure that the brightness is not switched off!
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Post by mercury on Oct 24, 2013 20:39:07 GMT -5
Did press the dim button on the remote to full, still no display at all on the LCD. Been listening for about 2hrs everything seems ok just no info on the display.
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 24, 2013 20:43:24 GMT -5
Did press the dim button on the remote to full, still no display at all on the LCD. Been listening for about 2hrs everything seems ok just no info on the display. Tried the one on the XDA-2 itself? Cheers Gary
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Post by mercury on Oct 24, 2013 20:51:00 GMT -5
Yup did that too..still nothing. what could be the problem?
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 24, 2013 20:53:47 GMT -5
Yup did that too..still nothing. what could be the problem? Try switching inputs, cables. connections and sources. Maybe a power cycle. If no joy, I'd give Emotiva a call. Cheers Gary
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