ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 13, 2010 16:08:17 GMT -5
UPA-1's would be great, but a XPA-2 would really make them come to life - plus you would have a bit more headroom. To be honest, any of the emo amps will sound great. F-12's have a pretty high efficiency rating (90.5) db so your choices are many. You might want to go for a multi channel as you plan for the future as well. It won't hurt to have a few channels resting until they are needed. :-) Ed, I'm stuck between the two (UPA/XPA). At first i was concidering the XPA-2 but some post saying it might be a little much and the fact that it weighs 75lbs. Which my stand might not be able to handle the extra pounds on that shelf. BUT i looked at numerous user submitted reviews on the XPA-2 and wow people really like the extra headroom and I'm sure i would love it too. Checking the website for my tv stand last night it said 100 pounds per shelf but i stood on that shelf this morning and i weigh in at 180 so don't think weight will be a problem. Plus the UPA-1's aren't ready for deleiver until 11/24 and the XPA-2 is ready for shipment now ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Ed, Do you think i will regret getting that extra power? Power in this case really isnt an issue. But your looking past some important points of monoblock advantages. A. Monoblocks will have perfect channel seperation/0 cross talk and this will equate to a wider soundstage. Crosstalk refers to sounds from one channel bleeding through to the other side that should not. Emo's multichannel amps do have some measureable/audible crosstalk I have found. B. THD+N. This is really an important spec. Especially at the high frequencies. The XPA-2's THD from 10-20khz is about 10 times higher than that of the UPA-1. That is significant. Especially with the tweeter those Revel speakers use. Treble with be alot smoother with the UPA-1. Revel speakers benefit from amps with LOW high frequency THD. Do you really want to pay $110 more for an amp that has a bit of crosstalk and significantly higher high frequency THD? The only thing the XPA-2 has over the UPA-1 is about 1-1.5db more of output and that is barely audible. And with those speakers I doubt you will ever need that miniscule amount of headroom, because they don't need much power at all to get extremely loud. Personally I'd wait till the UPA-1's are back in stock. But if your stuck on the overrated "power" bug for those high efficiency speakers, then bypass the XPA-2 and go for the XPA-1 monoblocks. They also have very low levels of THD in the high frequencies. Not quite as low as the UPA-1's be close enough where its negligible/non issue. Anyway, what is up with Emotiva's stock? You would think with the holiday season here they would be smart enough to have their warehouse full to the gills with product. Always out of stock of everything. If they are moving that much product regularly you would think they would better prepare themselves by now during this time of the season...........
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 13, 2010 16:14:25 GMT -5
Ed, I'm stuck between the two (UPA/XPA). At first i was concidering the XPA-2 but some post saying it might be a little much and the fact that it weighs 75lbs. Which my stand might not be able to handle the extra pounds on that shelf. BUT i looked at numerous user submitted reviews on the XPA-2 and wow people really like the extra headroom and I'm sure i would love it too. Checking the website for my tv stand last night it said 100 pounds per shelf but i stood on that shelf this morning and i weigh in at 180 so don't think weight will be a problem. Plus the UPA-1's aren't ready for deleiver until 11/24 and the XPA-2 is ready for shipment now ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Ed, Do you think i will regret getting that extra power? Son, You can never be too rich, too skinny or have too much amp :-) Big power means you speakers come to life with nuance and detail. Plus it will never harm your speakers - too little will because lack of power creates distortion and heat which is bad. Plus at some point down the road if you want to move to Maggies or Martin Logans or anything that is difficult to drive, you will be sitting pretty with all the watts you need. Big power is king Not necessarily true. Big power amps come with drawbacks..........see above post. Like stated before, Revel speakers dont need much power to get ear bleeding loud. My first pair of Revel F30's years ago had more than enough power from a small Adcom 545. My Salon's were the next set I went to, and they never saw more than 4-8 watts continous, at which point you couldn't hear yourself talk. I used my current pair of 600 watt monoblocks for those, but only because they ran in Class A mode at low continuous output power. I doubt though regardless that they ever even approached dynamic peak bursts of 50-100 watts even in a 26x16x10 room at high volume.
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Post by monkumonku on Nov 13, 2010 16:17:48 GMT -5
Ed, I'm stuck between the two (UPA/XPA). At first i was concidering the XPA-2 but some post saying it might be a little much and the fact that it weighs 75lbs. Which my stand might not be able to handle the extra pounds on that shelf. BUT i looked at numerous user submitted reviews on the XPA-2 and wow people really like the extra headroom and I'm sure i would love it too. Checking the website for my tv stand last night it said 100 pounds per shelf but i stood on that shelf this morning and i weigh in at 180 so don't think weight will be a problem. Plus the UPA-1's aren't ready for deleiver until 11/24 and the XPA-2 is ready for shipment now ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Ed, Do you think i will regret getting that extra power? Son, You can never be too rich, too skinny or have too much amp :-) Big power means you speakers come to life with nuance and detail. Plus it will never harm your speakers - too little will because lack of power creates distortion and heat which is bad. Plus at some point down the road if you want to move to Maggies or Martin Logans or anything that is difficult to drive, you will be sitting pretty with all the watts you need. Big power is king Yes, listen to Porscheguy because he knows whereof he speaks. If you don't buy the XPA-2, someday you will regret it. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow but someday you will. I'm no good at being noble but it doesn't take much to know that a pair of UPA-1's don't amount to more than a hill of beans compared to the XPA-2 in this world. A pair of UPA-1's weighs in at a wimpy 52 lbs compared to the 75 lbs heft of an XPA-2. There is a reason for that difference.
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Post by monkumonku on Nov 13, 2010 16:20:11 GMT -5
UPA-1's would be great, but a XPA-2 would really make them come to life - plus you would have a bit more headroom. To be honest, any of the emo amps will sound great. F-12's have a pretty high efficiency rating (90.5) db so your choices are many. You might want to go for a multi channel as you plan for the future as well. It won't hurt to have a few channels resting until they are needed. :-) Ed, I'm stuck between the two (UPA/XPA). At first i was concidering the XPA-2 but some post saying it might be a little much and the fact that it weighs 75lbs. Which my stand might not be able to handle the extra pounds on that shelf. BUT i looked at numerous user submitted reviews on the XPA-2 and wow people really like the extra headroom and I'm sure i would love it too. Checking the website for my tv stand last night it said 100 pounds per shelf but i stood on that shelf this morning and i weigh in at 180 so don't think weight will be a problem. Plus the UPA-1's aren't ready for deleiver until 11/24 and the XPA-2 is ready for shipment now ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Ed, Do you think i will regret getting that extra power? I'm not Ed but I will butt in anyway. Answer = NO. You will be happy and the only regret you might have is that you didn't buy two XPA-1's instead.
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Post by Porscheguy on Nov 13, 2010 16:20:33 GMT -5
Ed, I'm stuck between the two (UPA/XPA). At first i was concidering the XPA-2 but some post saying it might be a little much and the fact that it weighs 75lbs. Which my stand might not be able to handle the extra pounds on that shelf. BUT i looked at numerous user submitted reviews on the XPA-2 and wow people really like the extra headroom and I'm sure i would love it too. Checking the website for my tv stand last night it said 100 pounds per shelf but i stood on that shelf this morning and i weigh in at 180 so don't think weight will be a problem. Plus the UPA-1's aren't ready for deleiver until 11/24 and the XPA-2 is ready for shipment now ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Ed, Do you think i will regret getting that extra power? Power in this case really isnt an issue. But your looking past some important points of monoblock advantages. A. Monoblocks will have perfect channel seperation/0 cross talk and this will equate to a wider soundstage. Crosstalk refers to sounds from one channel bleeding through to the other side that should not. Emo's multichannel amps do have some measureable/audible crosstalk I have found. B. THD+N. This is really an important spec. Especially at the high frequencies. The XPA-2's THD from 10-20khz is about 10 times higher than that of the UPA-1. That is significant. Especially with the tweeter those Revel speakers use. Treble with be alot smoother with the UPA-1. Revel speakers benefit from amps with LOW high frequency THD. Do you really want to pay $110 more for an amp that has a bit of crosstalk and significantly higher high frequency THD? The only thing the XPA-2 has over the UPA-1 is about 1-1.5db more of output and that is barely audible. And with those speakers I doubt you will ever need that miniscule amount of headroom, because they don't need much power at all to get extremely loud. Personally I'd wait till the UPA-1's are back in stock. Anyway, what is up with Emotiva's stock? You would think with the holiday season here they would be smart enough to have their warehouse full to the gills with product. Always out of stock of everything. If they are moving that much product regularly you would think they would better prepare themselves by now during this time of the season........... C'mon Andrew. You just won't rest until you try to prove your point and be right all the time. You have UPA-1's. Good. There are some very good arguments for the XPA-2 which I have made but you won't hear of it. He HAS to get UPA-1's cause you have them - and if he doesn't he is making a mistake. What rubbish. Its the same thing with Rhythmik. According to you everyone should just throw away their subwoofer away and get a Rhythmik because if you have anything else, its crap.... For you its about winning the argument at all costs - even if you are wrong....or there is no right answer. Why do you always do that? Whats wrong with you boy?
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Post by Porscheguy on Nov 13, 2010 16:21:37 GMT -5
You tell em Rickie!!! :-) :-)
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Post by monkumonku on Nov 13, 2010 16:24:11 GMT -5
You tell em Rickie!!! :-) :-) Right on! ;D Yes, the UPA-1's may not have any crosstalk but this and other so-called advantages over the XPA-2 I say are not audible and will not be able to be appreciated as much as the authoritative power in reserve that kicks in when other amps have given up the ghost. ;D
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ntrain42
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Smoke me a kipper, I'll be home before breakfast!
Posts: 2,969
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 13, 2010 16:24:50 GMT -5
Son, You can never be too rich, too skinny or have too much amp :-) Big power means you speakers come to life with nuance and detail. Plus it will never harm your speakers - too little will because lack of power creates distortion and heat which is bad. Plus at some point down the road if you want to move to Maggies or Martin Logans or anything that is difficult to drive, you will be sitting pretty with all the watts you need. Big power is king Yes, listen to Porscheguy because he knows whereof he speaks. If you don't buy the XPA-2, someday you will regret it. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow but someday you will. I'm no good at being noble but it doesn't take much to know that a pair of UPA-1's don't amount to more than a hill of beans compared to the XPA-2 in this world. A pair of UPA-1's weighs in at a wimpy 52 lbs compared to the 75 lbs heft of an XPA-2. There is a reason for that difference. So weight is what makes a good amp? LOL! God I feel sorry for all those Linn Klimax Solo owners, LOL!
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Post by briank on Nov 13, 2010 16:36:52 GMT -5
I've listened to the F12's several times with a few different amps. Sony and Denon receivers, Rotel and Lexicon amps. They are pretty revealing speakers that are picky about their input. I've heard them sound just so-so and I've heard them sound awesome. Although the XPA-2 is a great amp, I would recommend the monoblocks, either the UPA-1 or XPA-1 for the ideal match up with the Revels. IMO, the XPA-2 has a touch of harshness to the upper frequency that the Revels may bring out too much. But that's just me, my parents have always said I have ears like a dog. ;D
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Post by Porscheguy on Nov 13, 2010 16:38:32 GMT -5
Crosstalk? What crap. I haver NEVER heard any crosstalk with my amp. If its there, its completely inaudible... Andy you are the only one IN THE WHOLE WORLD that keeps talking about this crosstalk crap...
Give all a break will ya :-(
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Post by Porscheguy on Nov 13, 2010 16:40:27 GMT -5
I've listened to the F12's several times with a few different amps. Sony and Denon receivers, Rotel and Lexicon amps. They are pretty revealing speakers that are picky about their input. I've heard them sound just so-so and I've heard them sound awesome. Although the XPA-2 is a great amp, I would recommend the monoblocks, either the UPA-1 or XPA-1 for the ideal match up with the Revels. IMO, the XPA-2 has a touch of harshness to the upper frequency that the Revels may bring out too much. But that's just me, my parents have always said I have ears like a dog. ;D My XPA-2 has no harshness whatsoever in its timbre. None. Gee what kind of amps do you use? Oh UPA-1's. I see.... :-)
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ntrain42
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Smoke me a kipper, I'll be home before breakfast!
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 13, 2010 16:42:14 GMT -5
Power in this case really isnt an issue. But your looking past some important points of monoblock advantages. A. Monoblocks will have perfect channel seperation/0 cross talk and this will equate to a wider soundstage. Crosstalk refers to sounds from one channel bleeding through to the other side that should not. Emo's multichannel amps do have some measureable/audible crosstalk I have found. B. THD+N. This is really an important spec. Especially at the high frequencies. The XPA-2's THD from 10-20khz is about 10 times higher than that of the UPA-1. That is significant. Especially with the tweeter those Revel speakers use. Treble with be alot smoother with the UPA-1. Revel speakers benefit from amps with LOW high frequency THD. Do you really want to pay $110 more for an amp that has a bit of crosstalk and significantly higher high frequency THD? The only thing the XPA-2 has over the UPA-1 is about 1-1.5db more of output and that is barely audible. And with those speakers I doubt you will ever need that miniscule amount of headroom, because they don't need much power at all to get extremely loud. Personally I'd wait till the UPA-1's are back in stock. Anyway, what is up with Emotiva's stock? You would think with the holiday season here they would be smart enough to have their warehouse full to the gills with product. Always out of stock of everything. If they are moving that much product regularly you would think they would better prepare themselves by now during this time of the season........... C'mon Andrew. You just won't rest until you try to prove your point and be right all the time. You have UPA-1's. Good. There are some very good arguments for the XPA-2 which I have made but you won't hear of it. He HAS to get UPA-1's cause you have them - and if he doesn't he is making a mistake. What rubbish. Its the same thing with Rhythmik. According to you everyone should just throw away their subwoofer away and get a Rhythmik because if you have anything else, its crap.... For you its about winning the argument at all costs - even if you are wrong....or there is no right answer. Why do you always do that? Whats wrong with you boy? I've owned both now actually(See my Agon feedback, Sold off an XPA-2 in favor of the UPA-1's). You seem to forget your talking to someone who has owned and sold Revel speakers for a decade. I know what they match up well too. I know whats more important with them. So I will speak up and give my 2 cents, especially when you have people like you here giving opinions without and real world experience on the combination. But you seem to have a problem with that. Why is that specifically? I mean you even sent me a PM with a link for a guy trying to dump off an XPA-2, when I told you I had no interest in one again. As stated above, the XPA-2 is a good punchy amp, but its not as good a match for a product like Revel which has a slightly forward/bright treble. Ive had em both side by side for ABing and the UPA-1 is audibly smoother on the top end without question and thats because its THD is so much lower. And its got a ton of power to boot as well, so much power that its a non-issue with a Revel speaker with a high sensitivity. Some people here give blind/fanboy advise I find. I give my advice with fundamental reasoning behind it, whether its in my stable or not. Example, I own a UMC-1, but you sure won't see me recommending that product anytime soon to people. Nor would I ever recommend my old Revel Salon's either, considering their pricetag, even to this day used. So YOU snap out of it, lol. Whats wrong with YOU boy? ;D
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Post by briank on Nov 13, 2010 16:46:53 GMT -5
Actually, I retract that statement as I just remembered that I checked the cables behind the XPA-2 after it sounded a little harsh and they were using the Emotiva Ultra Interconnects at the time which sounded harsh to me on my system as well, so I don't know if it was the XPA-2 or the cables, all I can say is that set-up in the Emotiva Lounge sounded harsh. Since I haven't listened to the XPA-2 with better interconnects so I can't validate the XPA-2 as being the culprit. The Ultra interconnects sounded harsh on my system as well and I almost returned my first Emotiva amp because of it but luckily I swapped cables and have been happy ever since. :-)
With that said, buy a pair of the XPA-1's and never look back. :-)
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Post by monkumonku on Nov 13, 2010 16:47:53 GMT -5
I've listened to the F12's several times with a few different amps. Sony and Denon receivers, Rotel and Lexicon amps. They are pretty revealing speakers that are picky about their input. I've heard them sound just so-so and I've heard them sound awesome. Although the XPA-2 is a great amp, I would recommend the monoblocks, either the UPA-1 or XPA-1 for the ideal match up with the Revels. IMO, the XPA-2 has a touch of harshness to the upper frequency that the Revels may bring out too much. But that's just me, my parents have always said I have ears like a dog. ;D Depends on if they meant your hearing is like a dog or your ears are shaped like a dog's ears and if so, what kind.. chihuahua, dachsund, St. Bernard, German Shepherd, bloodhound, etc. ;D Well you know, I love my XPA-2 and I bet the UPA-1's are great as well so it comes down to someone listening to both and then deciding. But my feeling is that the differences in specs are not audible (except to someone who has dog ears). ;D
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 13, 2010 16:48:00 GMT -5
Crosstalk? What crap. I haver NEVER heard any crosstalk with my amp. If its there, its completely inaudible... Andy you are the only one IN THE WHOLE WORLD that keeps talking about this crosstalk crap... Give all a break will ya :-( How bout this. Get off your high horse, swing down by my house. Bring your XPA-2. I have available a UPA-7,XPA-5 and the UPA-1's. I also have at my disposal an older pair of Revel M20's. I'll near garentee you will hear a difference in sound with the M20's when comparing the UPA-1's and the XPA-2. And I can show you how much crosstalk is in the multichannel amps as well and how crosstalk subtly narrows the percieved soundstage. I even have a keg of Cherry Wheat on hand. PM me if you want to swing by. I'm offering AGAIN.
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Post by monkumonku on Nov 13, 2010 16:48:49 GMT -5
Yes, listen to Porscheguy because he knows whereof he speaks. If you don't buy the XPA-2, someday you will regret it. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow but someday you will. I'm no good at being noble but it doesn't take much to know that a pair of UPA-1's don't amount to more than a hill of beans compared to the XPA-2 in this world. A pair of UPA-1's weighs in at a wimpy 52 lbs compared to the 75 lbs heft of an XPA-2. There is a reason for that difference. So weight is what makes a good amp? LOL! God I feel sorry for all those Linn Klimax Solo owners, LOL! Yes, if I drop my XPA-2 on your UPA-1, let's see who comes out better. ;D
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ntrain42
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Smoke me a kipper, I'll be home before breakfast!
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 13, 2010 16:51:35 GMT -5
I've listened to the F12's several times with a few different amps. Sony and Denon receivers, Rotel and Lexicon amps. They are pretty revealing speakers that are picky about their input. I've heard them sound just so-so and I've heard them sound awesome. Although the XPA-2 is a great amp, I would recommend the monoblocks, either the UPA-1 or XPA-1 for the ideal match up with the Revels. IMO, the XPA-2 has a touch of harshness to the upper frequency that the Revels may bring out too much. But that's just me, my parents have always said I have ears like a dog. ;D Depends on if they meant your hearing is like a dog or your ears are shaped like a dog's ears and if so, what kind.. chihuahua, dachsund, St. Bernard, German Shepherd, bloodhound, etc. ;D Well you know, I love my XPA-2 and I bet the UPA-1's are great as well so it comes down to someone listening to both and then deciding. But my feeling is that the differences in specs are not audible (except to someone who has dog ears). ;D THD is near impossible to hear when the level is in the .01-.05 range, but when the THD is .1-.2 is becomes audible and gives a grainy sound to the treble and also can present itself as listening fatigue when listening at higher volumes over a long period of time. Its proven that some people are more susceptible to it than others. I'm one that is.
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Post by briank on Nov 13, 2010 16:51:43 GMT -5
Hey now Monkuman, don't make fun of my furry ears. XPA-2's are a great amp for those who feel the need to compensate for other short comings. ;D As far as awesome, refined sound, Mono-blocks Rule!!!! lol
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 13, 2010 16:52:54 GMT -5
So weight is what makes a good amp? LOL! God I feel sorry for all those Linn Klimax Solo owners, LOL! Yes, if I drop my XPA-2 on your UPA-1, let's see who comes out better. ;D Considering they both use all the same identical quality components and SAME stamped steel frame I can garentee you neither will come out all right. ;D
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ntrain42
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Smoke me a kipper, I'll be home before breakfast!
Posts: 2,969
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 13, 2010 16:58:02 GMT -5
I've listened to the F12's several times with a few different amps. Sony and Denon receivers, Rotel and Lexicon amps. They are pretty revealing speakers that are picky about their input. I've heard them sound just so-so and I've heard them sound awesome. Although the XPA-2 is a great amp, I would recommend the monoblocks, either the UPA-1 or XPA-1 for the ideal match up with the Revels. IMO, the XPA-2 has a touch of harshness to the upper frequency that the Revels may bring out too much. But that's just me, my parents have always said I have ears like a dog. ;D My XPA-2 has no harshness whatsoever in its timbre. None. Gee what kind of amps do you use? Oh UPA-1's. I see.... :-) And what speakers are couple to that XPA-2?
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