pitbullmike
Emo VIPs
C'mon ladies, play us a tasty lick!
Posts: 1,775
|
Post by pitbullmike on Nov 29, 2010 10:09:04 GMT -5
I thought the 8.3s sounded good but they were a little to warm for my taste, also the center speaker(6.3) didn't seam to match well with the 8.3's. They did however looked great
|
|
|
Post by Bukowski on Nov 29, 2010 10:43:25 GMT -5
I live in Chicago and I'm thankful to have so many options in terms of listening rooms. Building out my personal listening room has been a long-term project for me. I've been doing my homework and have spent quite a few hours in listening rooms over the past 6 months. Emotiva came to my attention recently because of all the rave reviews on various other boards.
The reason I started this thread is because, for all the rave reviews of their components, there is relatively little feedback on their speakers (outside of this board). Something that concerned me was that not many companies make both electronics AND speakers. I'm not saying that a company can't do both well; it just gives me pause. Especially as a relative novice to the world of hi-fi. Are the speakers an afterthought for this company? Or are they of similar caliber to their electronics, with the same great pricing structure?
Based on my time spent in listening rooms, I've learned that you can't ask if speaker X is better than speaker Y. It's just impossible. It's like asking if a BMW is better than a Mercedes. To draw the car analogy a bit further, I wanted to know if I was comparing a Mercedes to a Chevy. With cars, the price tag is relatively similar among peers. It comes down to personal preference. Specs are nice, but you're not going to buy a car with more horsepower if you don't like the handling. Similarly, I'm not going to buy speakers with a certain frequency range if I don't like their imaging.
It's easy for me to drive down to the car dealership, and it doesn't cost me anything other than time. Shipping a set of 150lb speakers back and forth isn't quite as easy, and I wanted to get a gauge of people's opinions. I just wanted to know what tier the speakers fall into; not if they were better than x, y or z. Given the lack of agreement, I might ultimately have to bite the bullet and order them just to see for myself.
|
|
|
Post by bigred7078 on Nov 29, 2010 10:49:27 GMT -5
Given the lack of agreement, I might ultimately have to bite the bullet and order them just to see for myself. Probably the best option unless you can find a local owner who is willing to let you audition.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2010 10:50:53 GMT -5
If you are waiting for an agreement or a clear consensus, you're out of luck.
Too many variables to come up with something definitive. Every room is different, every combination of electronics is different. The only thing you can go by is how it sounds in your setup.
That being said, the Emo speakers are great for their price point. I have the ERM-1's and they are impressive in sound and build quality. Do I think they are better than my MMG's ? No. But, they do a few things better than the MMG's but ultimately in my opinion, the MMG is a better speaker all around especially for music.
|
|
|
Post by Bukowski on Nov 29, 2010 10:57:28 GMT -5
Gotta ask: Are we stuck on towers? Ever think about getting a higher quality monitor/sub combo instead? Much better bang for the buck with many benefits and advantages. I've considered the montior/sub combo, and I've read about the pros/cons. I have young kids and dogs in the house, and my fear is that the speaker stand would get knocked over more easily than a tower. Maybe that's not true, but that's my fear. And in terms of WAF, a tower would fly better.
|
|
|
Post by bigred7078 on Nov 29, 2010 10:59:34 GMT -5
And in terms of WAF, a tower would fly better. I've actually tried to go the monitor route a couple of times, but the little lady for some reason hates the "look" of them... strange, but I understand where you are coming from.
|
|
|
Post by Porscheguy on Nov 29, 2010 17:04:34 GMT -5
Gotta ask: Are we stuck on towers? Ever think about getting a higher quality monitor/sub combo instead? Much better bang for the buck with many benefits and advantages. I would agree that monitors "can" offer better imaging than towers depending on the room, setup etc. I have some Snells (J7) in the formal living room and I must admit they image beautifully. The smaller the box, the less interference with sound waves I'm guessing... Great on classical, chamber and more intimate recordings than my towers. They weren't cheap though......
|
|
ottaone
Emo VIPs
Posts: 1,032
Member is Online
|
Post by ottaone on Nov 29, 2010 21:42:28 GMT -5
... I've considered the montior/sub combo, and I've read about the pros/cons. I have young kids and dogs in the house, and my fear is that the speaker stand would get knocked over more easily than a tower. Maybe that's not true, but that's my fear. And in terms of WAF, a tower would fly better. Funny, in my case MDW prefers the monitors over the Zu Omen. The Magnepans 1.7 got the "not in my family room but you can have in the basement" response. Can't wait to finish the basement.
|
|
ntrain42
Emo VIPs
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be home before breakfast!
Posts: 2,969
|
Post by ntrain42 on Nov 29, 2010 21:46:49 GMT -5
Gotta ask: Are we stuck on towers? Ever think about getting a higher quality monitor/sub combo instead? Much better bang for the buck with many benefits and advantages. I would agree that monitors "can" offer better imaging than towers depending on the room, setup etc. I have some Snells (J7) in the formal living room and I must admit they image beautifully. The smaller the box, the less interference with sound waves I'm guessing... Great on classical, chamber and more intimate recordings than my towers. They weren't cheap though...... A good monitor isn't cheap, but normally you do get alot more bang for the buck for the money spent. As far as stability goes(like worrying about kids or dogs knocking em over)a good stand/monitor combo can weigh just as much or more than a similiar tower. It can also be more stable. Like my XQ20's, they bolt to the stands, and the stands have a much larger footprint than the XQ30 and 40's. Another Example is a set of Revel Gem's. They also bolt to their matching stands, it would take more to knock them over than it would most floorstanding speakers you can find period. And IMO a pair of quality monitors flanked by a matching sub or subs looks ALOT better too. But of course some people regardless just like the look of traditional towers better. Thats fine too. Everybody has their preference. Thankfully, my SO doesnt care what I buy, what it looks like, or where I put it as long as she can have the things she wants. ;D Here is an old pic of a set of gems with the Ultima sub(matching amp on top of the Ultima sub): www.ultimateavmag.com/content/revel-home-theater Those monitors are TANKS. Its too bad Revel cut corners when they redesigned to cabinets with the "2" series. The new Ultima series really doesn't stand out like the older modern/contemporaries they replaced.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2010 23:49:55 GMT -5
What is it with people trying to compare my speakers? They have nothing to do with my decision lol. If you don't like my speakers then great.....My problem with the 8.3's is their lack of bass I for one brought up the subject of your speakers only after you brought them up yourself in the first place in comparison to the value of the 8.3's. That was the question of the OP. He wanted to know how they compared to other speakers at the $1500/pr price range which are obviously from other internet direct dealers, online discount dealers or or retail dealers. I replied with some facts about the VA's which led me to believe that they in fact were overpriced. I feel the VA's would be more fairly priced below $3000/pr and the 8.3's at above $1500 in a retail store. Yes, I have heard them in a dealer's store and thought they sounded very good with excellent imaging and soundstage as they were placed. I challenge anyone here to post an example of a speaker that at $750 has the same driver makeup/quality and power handling of the 8.3's. In my opinion there is nothing out there at $1500/pr that equals the total overall performance of the ERT-8.3's for HT and dynamic two channel music in a dynamic design speaker. I personally prefer a monitor/bookshelf plus sub over the large tower but that is for another thread. The statement that the 8.3's have a lack of bass is laughable. There might be towers that go lower than the 8.3's but not at the volume and low distortion levels down to the 40-50 level at a reasonable price. The 8.3's are designed to be crossed over to a high quality sub in most applications at about 60Hz or perhaps slightly lower. I trust the comments from Jim Clements of Secrets of Home Theater and Hi-fi. "..........In my room, the bass response matched the mid range response down to about 45 Hz where it rolled off by 7 dB to a plateau that was essentially flat to about 20 Hz at which point they rolled off rapidly......Let me just get one thing out of the way at the very beginning – these speakers ROCK......I started my critical listening with the Elton at 60 Blu-Ray in 5.1 PCM. On "Levon", Elton’s piano was uncannily natural sounding and the drum kit came through with excellent slam. His voice had great clarity and tumbrel accuracy. On Honky Cat, the bass line had good pitch definition with strong output in the power band...... I heard excellent attack on the snare and the tom toms......The transients of the tympani were very well reproduced through the ERT-8.3’.....The ERT-8.3’s could play cleanly at 105db or more. That’s quite an accomplishment in my large room. But what was even more satisfying is that they could achieve these prodigious sound pressure levels without smearing or muddying the sound in any appreciable amount while the bass extension of these speakers heightened the perception of the performance space. There were great dynamic shadings etched on a very silent background......I felt that my room would benefit from bass traps due to the massive bass drive coming from the ERT-8.3’s. All in all, however, these were some of the best speakers I have heard for anywhere near their modest price...... BTW, for Neekos, I do not own the 8.3's. However, I do own the ERM-1's like you which are (many might not be aware) actually the same as the 8.3's from the dual 8" woofers up in the frequency response. The ERM-1's might be ever so slightly superior in clarity and definition in the dual 5.25" and 1" tweeter area since they have those exact same drivers in a smaller enclosure than the 8.3's. So we both have an excellent idea of how all but the lower end of the 8.3's would sound in our room placed in the same spot.
|
|
|
Post by moodyman on Nov 30, 2010 0:28:21 GMT -5
My problem with the 8.3's is their lack of bass and the tweeter is just ok. On the other hand the build quality is fantastic. The satin black finish is flawless and the aluminum baffle is gorgeous. I think bass is one of the 8.3's strong point's. Just goes to show how varied opinions are on speakers.
|
|
stiehl11
Emo VIPs
Give me available light!
Posts: 7,261
|
Post by stiehl11 on Nov 30, 2010 0:47:48 GMT -5
If I ever get those PC-9s I wonder if Vince and the crew would let me do an informal listening session between them and the 8.3s?
|
|
|
Post by bigred7078 on Nov 30, 2010 1:04:48 GMT -5
What is it with people trying to compare my speakers? They have nothing to do with my decision lol. If you don't like my speakers then great.....My problem with the 8.3's is their lack of bass I for one brought up the subject of your speakers only after you brought them up yourself in the first place in comparison to the value of tmhe 8.3's. Hm thats strange since I never once compared my speakers to the 8.3's "in the first place"..... I replied with some facts about the VA's which led me to believe that they in fact were overpriced. And what "facts" led you to this decision? That a speaker much smaller surprisingly weighs only slightly less? lol, riiiight. I challenge anyone here to post an example of a speaker that at $750 has the same driver makeup/quality and power handling of the 8.3's. In my opinion there is nothing out there at $1500/pr that equals the total overall performance of the ERT-8.3's for HT and dynamic two channel music in a dynamic design speaker. I personally prefer a monitor/bookshelf plus sub over the large tower but that is for another thread. $750? you mean $1500? Well I will post a few of my personal choices, but does it really matter? How can you "challenge" something that is going to be scored according to your subjective opinion? lol. -I actually like the Swan Diva 5.1's better and they are a fraction of the price at $500 - Also throw in the 6.1's priced at around $1150. -Swan Diva 6.2's at $1299 -Swan D2.1SE's at $999 -Dana 680 at $1100 -Magnepan MMG's at $599 -Magnepan 1.7's (although to be fair they are close to $2000 -AV123 RS850's (no longer made but were $1500) -KEF XQ10- $1499 -Dynaudio Audience 42 at $1199 -Sonus Faber Toy at $999 -Salk Song tower (another that is $1899) -Monitor Audio RX6 at $1250 -Monitor Audio RS8's at $1400 -Zu Audio Omen at $1500 (however I have not heard this model) -SVS MTS-02 at $1499 -SVS MBS-02 at $999 -Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1 at $898 -Aperion Intimus 6T at $1400 I'm sure others can add to the list as these were just random speakers that popped into my head. All these and more compete. Some of these don't have quite as nice build quality as the 8.3's or are bookshelves, but most perform on par or much better than them IMO for around the same price or less. Now I think the Emotiva speakers are very nice, but my point was there are sooooo many options compared to the amplifier market that competition is a lot more intense and thus the value is not as high.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2010 2:11:14 GMT -5
Trying to carry on an reasonably intelligent discussion in this forum can be difficult with some folks.
.....You brought up the VA's in response to a post by Porchseguy. post #4 and 9
.....I gave some detailed facts about the Mozart Grand, post #14
.....I said $750 (for a single speaker) as I had mentioned before then clarified it in the next line for folks like you when I said "$1500/pr." Look at the quote you listed right above here. Hello!
.....I said "dynamic design speaker." That means conventional speakers with dome/cone tweeters and cone mids and/or woofers. It does not include other type designs such as electrostatic, planar, etc. The most expensive speaker you list (Swan) is 55lbs and includes a tweeter and two 5" cones in a transmission line enclosure. You list the KEF XQ10 which is a 14 lb bookshelf speaker??? The SVS speaker MTS-02 is somewhat closer, but has one tweeter and two 7" drivers and opposed to five drivers in the 8.3 which weighs ten lbs more than the SVS and handles almost twice as much power.
At 1:00am your time you seem to have some difficulty clearly reading and comprehending my posts. Have another beer. ;D
|
|
|
Post by roadrunner on Nov 30, 2010 2:18:32 GMT -5
Bigred Many of the speakers in your list of competing options are a real stretch. Many of them are more closely matched to the Emotiva ERM-6.3. I spent considerable time listening to both the Salk Songtowers and they are very close in performance to the ERM-6.3, except for price. The Salks cost a lot more, but these two speakers share the same strengths and weaknesses. These two speakers have extremely exceptional midrange performance and they both sorely need a sub woofer to assist their bottom end. Speaker selection is such a subjective task that you will never get agreement as to what is the best speaker within any category and basically all you have done is to state your preferences in speaker reproduction. Having differences in what you like is expected. What disappointed me with your posts is that I expected you to provide some emperical data to compare competing models when all I see from you is you prefer the voicing of select speakers without really supporting the "value" that each represents. With this type of discussion how can this be useful to the OP? Maybe I just expected better from you. When looking at speakers within a certain category I thought you would have gone into details to support how you reached your conclusions. From your experience and knowledge level I expected something similar to what Tom Andry did when he reviewed the Emotiva ERM-1/ERD-1 speakers. See the link below. www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/emotiva-er-5-0-speaker-system-reviewTom pointed out why he thought these Emotiva speakers were such a huge bargain. Vance Dickason's involvement in the design of the Emotiva speaker line should add confidence to people wondering about the quality of speakers from an "amplifier manufacturer". Back to Tom Andry's review... Tom compared the Emotiva speakers to highly regarded competing products priced significantly higher than the reviewed Emo models and he detailed why the Emo speakers humbled the far costlier competitor. This is the sort of thing that will prove useful to the OP. Afterall, isn't that what this thread is about? Oops, I closed before adding the one important quote from the Secrets... review of the ERT-8.3. " What they really have going for them is fantastic sound quality at an extremely attractive price point. They also played loudly and handled complex passages without strain. If you decide to purchase a set, be prepared to enjoy a warm, relaxed overall presentation with highs that are smooth, sweet and extended... All in all, however, these were some of the best speakers I have heard for anywhere near their modest price."
|
|
|
Post by bigred7078 on Nov 30, 2010 3:08:27 GMT -5
Trying to carry on an reasonably intelligent discussion with you is useless. .....You brought up the VA's in response to a post by Porchseguy. post #4 and 9 .....I gave some detailed facts about the Mozart Grand, post #14 .....I said $750 (for a single speaker) as I had mentioned before then clarified it in the next line for folks like you when I said "$1500/pr." Look at the quote you listed right above here. Hello! .....I said "dynamic design speaker." That means conventional speakers with dome/cone tweeters and cone mids and/or woofers. It does not include other type designs such as electrostatic, planar, etc. The most expensive speaker you list (Swan) is 55lbs and includes a tweeter and two 5" cones in a transmission line enclosure. You list the KEF XQ10 which is a 14 lb bookshelf speaker??? The SVS speaker MTS-02 is somewhat closer, but has one tweeter and two 7" drivers and opposed to five drivers in the 8.3 which weighs ten lbs more than the SVS and handles almost twice as much power. Obviously, at 1:00am your time you can't clearly read or comprehend my posts. Have another beer. ;D all you ever do is try to insult me.... Again, I never compared the mozarts to anything. Porscheguy said I spent $4000 on them and I corrected him and said I spent $1500. Perhaps you need to look again or you need to stop reading into things so much because I never compared MY speakers to the 8.3's. Excuse me...dynamic design...ok then mark 2 speakers off my list You seem overly focused on weight and number of drivers... How about the most important aspect of the speaker...how it sounds... naaaaah that doesn't matter what could I be thinking. All the speakers that I listed (other than two of them) are models that I have listened to and preferred over the 8.3's. You seem to always want to convince me that the Emotiva's are the best sounding speaker and best value in their price range. I have had more than my fair share of listening sessions with the 8.3's and i'm sorry to say that I do not share that OPINION with you. Insult me over and over again, but you are not going to change my tastes.
|
|
|
Post by bigred7078 on Nov 30, 2010 3:29:38 GMT -5
Bigred Many of the speakers in your list of competing options are a real stretch. Many of them are more closely matched to the Emotiva ERM-6.3. I spent considerable time listening to both the Salk Songtowers and they are very close in performance to the ERM-6.3, except for price. The Salks cost a lot more, but these two speakers share the same strengths and weaknesses. These two speakers have extremely exceptional midrange performance and they both sorely need a sub woofer to assist their bottom end. Speaker selection is such a subjective task that you will never get agreement as to what is the best speaker within any category and basically all you have done is to state your preferences in speaker reproduction. Having differences in what you like is expected. What disappointed me with your posts is that I expected you to provide some emperical data to compare competing models when all I see from you is you prefer the voicing of select speakers without really supporting the "value" that each represents. With this type of discussion how can this be useful to the OP? Maybe I just expected better from you. When looking at speakers within a certain category I thought you would have gone into details to support how you reached your conclusions. From your experience and knowledge level I expected something similar to what Tom Andry did when he reviewed the Emotiva ERM-1/ERD-1 speakers. See the link below. www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/emotiva-er-5-0-speaker-system-reviewTom pointed out why he thought these Emotiva speakers were such a huge bargain. Vance Dickason's involvement in the design of the Emotiva speaker line should add confidence to people wondering about the quality of speakers from an "amplifier manufacturer". Back to Tom Andry's review... Tom compared the Emotiva speakers to highly regarded competing products priced significantly higher than the reviewed Emo models and he detailed why the Emo speakers humbled the far costlier competitor. This is the sort of thing that will prove useful to the OP. Afterall, isn't that what this thread is about? Oops, I closed before adding the one important quote from the Secrets... review of the ERT-8.3. " What they really have going for them is fantastic sound quality at an extremely attractive price point. They also played loudly and handled complex passages without strain. If you decide to purchase a set, be prepared to enjoy a warm, relaxed overall presentation with highs that are smooth, sweet and extended... All in all, however, these were some of the best speakers I have heard for anywhere near their modest price."lol well pardon me for not going into such detailed explanations for why I think the dozen different speakers I listed are as good or better. I'm sorry, but i'm not going to spend the time to do such a task as I have no vested interest in this topic. Posting a review from a website is not something I do. I have never really found it helpful to hear what some "professional" thinks about a speaker...what use is that? User reviews are also just incredibly biased most of the time. Sometimes I may agree with a review and other times I may not. But at the end of the day reviews are just overblown advertisements... And how can you say you expect better from me when I even told the OP to take his time and listen to as many speakers as possible so he can make the most informed decision....his own. I also like how you say the speakers I listed are a "stretch" for comparison then you go on to say in the next paragraph that speaker selection is such a subjective task... well no kidding! Thats why I have been stating IMO this entire time. I never wanted agreement, thats why I posted in the first place. If I would never have posted then you and chuckie would be posting over and over that they are worth their weight in gold. Posting a contrasting opinion is great to get someone thinking for themselves.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2010 3:54:07 GMT -5
Well, I suggest we end it here. I'm trying to compare the 8.3 to comparable speakers in size, drivers, and power handling because I think he is interested in towers and not what bookshelf speakers you like.
However, to set the record straight about insults. You first took me to task here many moons ago, several times, about my recommending Emotiva speakers which seemed to irritate you. I guess you have never figured out that this is an dedicated Emotiva sponsored forum.
You insulted me more than once including after as a moderator I attempted in a very polite manner, in addition to deleting a post of yours, to get you to tone down several of your posts which were too confrontational. That enraged you and you proceeded to send me a profanity laced PM. Your sloppy wording and spelling left me to believe you were drunk, it was very late your time. Your good buddy also followed up with a similar nasty PM. You then proceeded to go to the AVS forum and trash talked about me.
I for one am tired of your cutting down anyone who promotes Emotiva speakers as a fanboy. Implying that Emo speakers are priced as if they were retail speakers is a slam here at this forum. Why not peddle that anti-Emo line at another general forum. No members here object if someone recommends other brands of speakers but the not so subtle insults about the price of the 8.3 is quite obvious to some of us. It's a lot more than just a subjective opinion. Your past harassment of me and anyone else who pushes Emo products at this forum is uncalled for.
My apologies to the OP for getting off track here.
The End
|
|
|
Post by roadrunner on Nov 30, 2010 4:17:11 GMT -5
Bigred,
The whole point of linking to Professional Reviews is to give the OP the opportunity to see what the reviewer thought and why he thought what he did. By doing this, its takes Chuckie's and my personal opinions out of the focal point and shows that people like Tom Andry and Jim Clements think that the Emotiva speakers outperform others "anywhere near their price". This is strong support from unbiased sources stating that the Emotiva speakers perform far above their price level. It is far easier to discount what fellow Lounge member think about the value, but when uninterested "professionals" all make the same statement supporting our belief in the value quotient of the Emotiva speakers it serves to show that it is NOT just our bias and that there is a lot of truth to our assertion.
As many of my posts as you have read over the past few years, you know fullwell that I am an advocate of always listening to as many speakers as you can and then auditioning the "short list" in your own home using your own gear. I would not buy a speaker without having listen to it and I advise people to do likewise. Where we seem to divert is I belive in doing research on the internet to help narrow down the short list. You can learn what some of the strengths and weaknesses of a speaker are compared to other speakers discussed in the reviews. No, the reviews cannot be blindly accepted as the last word, but they do have value in evaluating candidates. Pointing out these pro reviews can be very useful to the OP even if you don't think they hold much value for you.
|
|
NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
Posts: 0
|
Post by NorthStar on Nov 30, 2010 5:58:43 GMT -5
Me, I'm reading all of this and I say to myself: "Bob, what this world has come to?" ;D Chuckie, wake up, and be nice with Stevie! * Just be cool everyone and accept other people's point of view, that's all! So simple what a bit of luv can do... Right Chuckie? ;D Just follow the good examples around (Ronnie, Bobby, Carlos, Mark, Reg, David, Deral, George, Rickie, Andrew , Eddie, Judd, Richie, Jimmie, Alberto, Matt, and all the other members).
|
|