Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2010 6:29:01 GMT -5
Bob, we're trying to get back to the thread subject here and you butt in and keep it going. You have no knowledge of the past. Would you like me to send you a copy of the PM's I received and the posts made over at the AVS forum about me?
Bigred can have the last word if he wants, I've made my point very clear about the 8.3's and how I feel about their relative retail price.
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Nov 30, 2010 6:52:09 GMT -5
Sorry, I won't post anymore in this thread. I was simply trying to restore some kind of Peace that's all!
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Post by bigred7078 on Nov 30, 2010 8:05:58 GMT -5
You can make yourself out to be an angel all you want by continuing to shine a bad light on only me, but it just appears as if you are a grumpy man with a chip on your shoulder. I can go on and on about my vendetta with you but I won't, why because people just flat out don't care lol. Get over it.
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Post by bigred7078 on Nov 30, 2010 8:49:15 GMT -5
Bigred, The whole point of linking to Professional Reviews is to give the OP the opportunity to see what the reviewer thought and why he thought what he did. By doing this, its takes Chuckie's and my personal opinions out of the focal point and shows that people like Tom Andry and Jim Clements think that the Emotiva speakers outperform others "anywhere near their price". This is strong support from unbiased sources stating that the Emotiva speakers perform far above their price level. It is far easier to discount what fellow Lounge member think about the value, but when uninterested "professionals" all make the same statement supporting our belief in the value quotient of the Emotiva speakers it serves to show that it is NOT just our bias and that there is a lot of truth to our assertion. As many of my posts as you have read over the past few years, you know fullwell that I am an advocate of always listening to as many speakers as you can and then auditioning the "short list" in your own home using your own gear. I would not buy a speaker without having listen to it and I advise people to do likewise. Where we seem to divert is I belive in doing research on the internet to help narrow down the short list. You can learn what some of the strengths and weaknesses of a speaker are compared to other speakers discussed in the reviews. No, the reviews cannot be blindly accepted as the last word, but they do have value in evaluating candidates. Pointing out these pro reviews can be very useful to the OP even if you don't think they hold much value for you. Ronnie, No that is not where we divert. I also fully agree in doing as much research as possible. Where we seem to have different opinions is you seemed to have wanted me to post up some uber descriptive worthy of website review on my beliefs as well as post the 2-3 professional reviews on the web about the 8.3's and show it off to the OP as if it is some sort of unbiased review....problem is, how often do you see bad audio reviews? Hardly ever, especially when the company advertises on their website.... Can they be useful though? Of course, it's just not what i'm into. The OP asked what WE thought, not what a professional reviewer thought so I gave him that. Anyway, none of this really matters since the OP asked what we thought an I told him that. My point to the OP was that I believed the 8.3's to perform within their price class. The speaker market is just to competitive for me to see them being worthwhile at double their current price point. It is easy for us to say that about the amps as there are no close competitors pricing their gear anywhere close, so they REALLY do perform 2x their price. We throw that term around very loosely for speakers these days where the competition is stiff and the options are a plenty.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2010 9:00:40 GMT -5
Bob, we're trying to get back to the thread subject here and you butt in and keep it going. You have no knowledge of the past. Would you like me to send you a copy of the PM's I received and the posts made over at the AVS forum about me? Bigred can have the last word if he wants, I've made my point very clear about the 8.3's and how I feel about their relative retail price. There's no need to attack Bob. Chuckie, take a step back and analyze for a moment. It's great to like a product and want to fully support it. The hardest part is to present an argument and be able to accept a different opinion from someone else. If at any point in the interaction, the counter argument seems logical and plausible, then tip your hat and move on. If you don't feel the counter argument is a logical one, then you debate it in a civil matter. These tit for tat explosions only make assumptions that you are letting your emotions get the best of you. These interactions are supposed to be educational and fun. Over the years I have learned quite a bit from people on audio, but I have also been able to share my experience and knowledge of equipment. If I disagree with someone, I chalk it up for a difference of opinion and move on. If the interaction becomes personal, then it is harder to disengage. Remember, it's ok for someone to not agree on or like an Emotiva product. This is how the company will take suggestions from owners and critics and make adjustments to improve it. Case in point, the UMC-1. I absolutely HATED it the two times I owned it because it did not work right, however it appears it has become much more stable as of late... Just thoughts...
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stiehl11
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Give me available light!
Posts: 7,261
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Post by stiehl11 on Nov 30, 2010 23:50:21 GMT -5
I think price goes along with market availability/share... As you get into more botique brands of speakers (using exotic materials and avantgard styling) your price point goes exponentially higher while your performance point only marginally increases. That said; if you have a store that is moving product well they'll likely cut you a deal off the MSRP (case in point, I picked up my Phase Techs for 60% of MSRP when I bought them 10 years ago). The less a speaker has penitrated the market the higher the MSRP is and the less likely you'll get a break on the price. So, while the PC-9s that I've referenced (that no one seems to care about ) come in at almost $3,000 for the pair, or twice the cost of the 8.3s. When I called Phase Tech to locate a dealer in the area they said that there weren't any within 200 miles of Nashville and that if they talked a dealer into taking a pair the dealer would have to have a reasonable assurance that I would buy them and at or near retail. However, they can be had for about $1,800 with the right circumstances at a dealer that moves this product. At $1,800 they are much closer to the 8.3s in price. The question then would be; how do they sound? I hope to find out by next summer. I hope I made sense with that...
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Post by munroe on Dec 1, 2010 11:03:58 GMT -5
+1 here for the Phase Tech's. My buying decisions for the speakers i've owned over the years tended to be based on SQ, price, size, design/engineering, weight & finally, looks. But i'm a rebel & never seem to buy what everybody else has (maybe to a fault). Give me the odd-ball designer/builder-in-a garage & now, the internet direct companys & i'm in heaven. Starting out with Dynaco A-25's, Spica T-50's, Dayton Wright LCM-1's, Adire Audio Rava Sub & even (dare i mention) the Sony SS-X30ES series speakers i still have - every one of them were off the radar for the average guy. Comparing, or even buying, speakers at a high end store was never really practical for me, so i was left to listen to what my friends had, make some phone calls & even write letters (!) to the companys & individuals to find what i needed. Now that we have forums, it's alot easier to compare notes on our audio desires (and get into some verbage!). Emotiva has been a god-send for me & with only a little pair of ERD-1's & a few amps in my living room, i myself wouldn't hesitate in buying any of their speakers - i can't wait for the 6.3's to arrive so i can try a hybrid blend with my Maggies. My short list for the towers i was considering a few months back were the ERT 8.3's and the Phase Technology PC 9.5's, because i could get them for a great price locally, but my courisoty about the MMG's (and their return policy) won me over so i'm keeping them over a tower set-up. Lots of great suggestions on this thread, but in the end, nobody else has your ears & lives in your house, so sometimes you have to hold your breath & jump into to the deep end of the pool & buy what "feels" good. OK, i'm done now - gotta take out the garbage... Munroe
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Post by bigred7078 on Dec 1, 2010 11:57:23 GMT -5
Lots of great suggestions on this thread, but in the end, nobody else has your ears & lives in your house, so sometimes you have to hold your breath & jump into to the deep end of the pool & buy what "feels" good. Munroe so true, so true indeed. Whatever makes you feel good at the end of the day should be the choice. P.S.- I've owned a pair of ERD-1's since they were released as well and I think they are great surrounds. "Whhhhat" say those who think i'm not a fan of Emotiva speakers...well remember I never said I did not like them, I just don't think they are worth double their price point is all
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Post by broncsrule21 on Dec 1, 2010 12:30:18 GMT -5
+1 on the ERD-1s. It all goes back to the subjective nature of sounds. Try many, stick with what YOU like. Price is only a small factor in all of this.
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pitbullmike
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C'mon ladies, play us a tasty lick!
Posts: 1,775
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Post by pitbullmike on Dec 1, 2010 14:45:34 GMT -5
Bob, we're trying to get back to the thread subject here and you butt in and keep it going. You have no knowledge of the past. Would you like me to send you a copy of the PM's I received and the posts made over at the AVS forum about me? Bigred can have the last word if he wants, I've made my point very clear about the 8.3's and how I feel about their relative retail price. There's no need to attack Bob. Chuckie, take a step back and analyze for a moment. It's great to like a product and want to fully support it. The hardest part is to present an argument and be able to accept a different opinion from someone else. If at any point in the interaction, the counter argument seems logical and plausible, then tip your hat and move on. If you don't feel the counter argument is a logical one, then you debate it in a civil matter. These tit for tat explosions only make assumptions that you are letting your emotions get the best of you. These interactions are supposed to be educational and fun. Over the years I have learned quite a bit from people on audio, but I have also been able to share my experience and knowledge of equipment. If I disagree with someone, I chalk it up for a difference of opinion and move on. If the interaction becomes personal, then it is harder to disengage. Remember, it's ok for someone to not agree on or like an Emotiva product. This is how the company will take suggestions from owners and critics and make adjustments to improve it. Case in point, the UMC-1. I absolutely HATED it the two times I owned it because it did not work right, however it appears it has become much more stable as of late... Just thoughts... +1 Yea Chuckie I think that was uncalled for, and I beleive you owe Bob an apology. He was simply trying to calm you guys down. I vote to strip Chuckie as Mod for nonsense like this.... P.S Please dont attack me
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Post by edoggrc51 on Dec 1, 2010 15:57:26 GMT -5
Just follow the good examples around (Ronnie, Bobby, Carlos, Mark, Reg, David, Deral, George, Rickie, Andrew , Eddie, Judd, Richie, Jimmie, Alberto, Matt, and all the other members). Man! Andrew made the cut but not me? ;D That's cold Bob. ;D ;D ;D
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 1, 2010 16:02:14 GMT -5
Just follow the good examples around (Ronnie, Bobby, Carlos, Mark, Reg, David, Deral, George, Rickie, Andrew , Eddie, Judd, Richie, Jimmie, Alberto, Matt, and all the other members). Man! Andrew made the cut but not me? ;D That's cold Bob. ;D ;D ;D Looks like you are just part of "all the other members." ;D
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pitbullmike
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C'mon ladies, play us a tasty lick!
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Post by pitbullmike on Dec 1, 2010 17:24:51 GMT -5
Man! Andrew made the cut but not me? ;D That's cold Bob. ;D ;D ;D Looks like you are just part of "all the other members." ;D I dont even think I made the part of ''all the other members''
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Post by Porscheguy on Dec 1, 2010 17:39:53 GMT -5
I would agree that monitors "can" offer better imaging than towers depending on the room, setup etc. I have some Snells (J7) in the formal living room and I must admit they image beautifully. The smaller the box, the less interference with sound waves I'm guessing... Great on classical, chamber and more intimate recordings than my towers. They weren't cheap though...... A good monitor isn't cheap, but normally you do get alot more bang for the buck for the money spent. As far as stability goes(like worrying about kids or dogs knocking em over)a good stand/monitor combo can weigh just as much or more than a similiar tower. It can also be more stable. Like my XQ20's, they bolt to the stands, and the stands have a much larger footprint than the XQ30 and 40's. Another Example is a set of Revel Gem's. They also bolt to their matching stands, it would take more to knock them over than it would most floorstanding speakers you can find period. And IMO a pair of quality monitors flanked by a matching sub or subs looks ALOT better too. But of course some people regardless just like the look of traditional towers better. Thats fine too. Everybody has their preference. Thankfully, my SO doesnt care what I buy, what it looks like, or where I put it as long as she can have the things she wants. ;D Here is an old pic of a set of gems with the Ultima sub(matching amp on top of the Ultima sub): www.ultimateavmag.com/content/revel-home-theater Those monitors are TANKS. Its too bad Revel cut corners when they redesigned to cabinets with the "2" series. The new Ultima series really doesn't stand out like the older modern/contemporaries they replaced. I remember listening to those Gems when they came out. I think they might have been Kevin's first design for Revel, not sure. Nice monitors...
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Post by Porscheguy on Dec 1, 2010 17:52:36 GMT -5
Yeah, cut it out!! Andrew and me do all the fighting :-) :-)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2010 19:18:06 GMT -5
First of all today's better metal domes are not harsh, their resonances are above what's audible. Whether one likes a great metal dome that costs $60 or $60 soft dome is largely determined by appearance and the quality of the motor. There have been a great number of bad domes, both soft and rigid. But finding a dome in a commercial speaker that would cost anything close to that is nearly impossible. Ready built speakers tend to use very cheap drivers and therefore the metal ones sound harsh. I don't know what quality drivers Emotiva uses. The only commercial speakers I have are the ERD-1s which do their job very well, mind you they mainly are used to add ambience and sound effects. I got them with $100 Emotiva bucks off and in that price range there are no other decent surround speakers including DIY. I'm going to probably build with ScanSpeak soft domes in the future but right now am enjoying the Eton Mag/ceramics in my L/R fronts. ScanSpeaks build quality, and price, is beyond anything else. They sell a berylium (sp?) tweeter but from the charts I've seen it is only better than a soft dome above 30kHz and I cannot hear that. I am quite satisfied with what I have and do not find it fatiguing but have this illness that keeps me wanting something better. The 8.3s look very impressive to me but at that price I could build a pair of ScanSpeak Revelators.
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Ctuna
Sensei
You can tune a piano, but you cant tunafish.
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Post by Ctuna on Dec 2, 2010 12:37:29 GMT -5
WOW
I thought that maybe we would need boxing cloves out for some of these posts. I don't own the 8.3s but I am interested in them and may give them a try when they become available along with some other brands that have been suggested here to me in the past.
Personally I don't think Emotiva would have built a crappy speaker just from the quality of the products that I have seen from them so far.
The only way to tell is to listen to them, which I have a good feeling they will sound incredible for the price they are asking.
I wonder if Big Dan or Lonnie have these speakers in their homes ? If they do that would make my decision allot easier because as we all can tell they know what good sounding equipment should sound like.
And I do think value wise they will probably beat allot of speakers at this price point.
Just my 2 cents worth, but would love to hear them !
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 2, 2010 12:43:26 GMT -5
WOW I thought that maybe we would need boxing cloves out for some of these posts. I don't own the 8.3s but I am interested in them and may give them a try when they become available along with some other brands that have been suggested here to me in the past. Personally I don't think Emotiva would have built a crappy speaker just from the quality of the products that I have seen from them so far. The only way to tell is to listen to them, which I have a good feeling they will sound incredible for the price they are asking. I wonder if Big Dan or Lonnie have these speakers in their homes ? If they do that would make my decision allot easier because as we all can tell they know what good sounding equipment should sound like. And I do think value wise they will probably beat allot of speakers at this price point. Just my 2 cents worth, but would love to hear them ! I owned a set of the Emo's (not the 8.3's) and ended up selling them because I liked some other speakers better but that's a matter of preference. There was certainly nothing wrong with them and in terms of quality, I think they rank very high in that regard. They didn't skimp on anything, including even the screws and small hardware that was used. Everything was solid and done right with no shortcuts. In terms of workmanship and parts, you really get your money's worth. It is just a matter of your sound preferences.
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Post by bigred7078 on Dec 2, 2010 12:44:47 GMT -5
WOW I thought that maybe we would need boxing cloves out for some of these posts. I don't own the 8.3s but I am interested in them and may give them a try when they become available along with some other brands that have been suggested here to me in the past. Personally I don't think Emotiva would have built a crappy speaker just from the quality of the products that I have seen from them so far. The only way to tell is to listen to them, which I have a good feeling they will sound incredible for the price they are asking. I wonder if Big Dan or Lonnie have these speakers in their homes ? If they do that would make my decision allot easier because as we all can tell they know what good sounding equipment should sound like. And I do think value wise they will probably beat allot of speakers at this price point. Just my 2 cents worth, but would love to hear them ! Everything was solid and done right with no shortcuts. In terms of workmanship and parts, you really get your money's worth. It is just a matter of your sound preferences. +1
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moookie1051
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Post by moookie1051 on Dec 2, 2010 13:34:52 GMT -5
Re-posting my comparison from a year ago. BTW, I kept the Emos & they now reside in my bedroom along with a pair of ERM-1s & Ultra 12 subs. ;D
The smooth, wide-open, enveloping presentation of the OM's vs. the crisp, precise, punchy ERT's could be tough to choose.
After 2 days of comparing the two systems, (OM-5's, OM-C2 vs. ERT-8.3's, ERM-6.3) I'd have to totally agree with the above quote. They are definitely "twin sons of different mothers", i.e. both project excellent SQ, both exhibit outstanding build quality, & both possess extended dynamic range. The most obvious differences I've noticed (aside from the quote above) are that the "timbre matching" between the EMO trio is not nearly as transitionally smooth as it is between the Mirage trio. The ERM-6.3 does not seem to tonally match the ERT-8.3's compared to the way the Mirage trio seamlessly blend together. It's most evident on test tones during the Audyssey setup. Also, the OM-5's delve deeper into the lowest octave than the ERT-8.3's do, though the ERT-8.3's mid-bass sounds slightly tighter and better defined. The ERM-6.3 also calls attention to itself in a way that the omni polar OM-C2 doesn't during TV/DVD/BD viewing, which I believe is due to the dispersion characteristics ( & speaker positioning) of a direct radiator vs. an omni design. Voices emanate from below the screen while using the ERM-6.3 (which is where the speaker is positioned), but when putting the OM-C2 in the same position, they seem to project out from the screen in a much more realistic presentation.
To summarize, at half the price of the Mirage trio, the EMO trio do an admirable job of "keeping up with the Joneses". I really love both sets, but the smooth, wide-open, enveloping presentation of the OM's just happens to be my cup of tea. I haven't yet decided if I'll keep the EMO trio, but with 5 HT setups in my house, I'm pretty sure I'll be able to find a spot to use them. IMHO, for the money, they are an incredible value, & if I wasn't so enamored of the Mirage sound & presentation, I could easily live with the EMO's in my main system. For anyone looking at a budget of $2000.00 for a trio of main speakers, I wholeheartedly recommend auditioning an ERT-8.3/ERM-6.3 combo. I sincerely doubt you'll be disappointed!
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