Need Help Picking Front floorstanding Speakers

[xki]

Mar 3, 2012 16:46:22 GMT -5 venturesteve said:

Hi everyone, I need Help Picking Front floorstanding Speakers.
I have a 7.1 system with 35 year old front speakers.
Using the UMC-1 and UPA-7. I would like a full range 3 way speaker
under $1500, $1000 would better. I have read up on the Polk RTI 9 and 7
speakers. My town has no audio stores. I have no idea if the UPA-7 has
enough power to run these speakers or even the ERT 8.3's. I like GOOD BASE and crisp highs. I do have a Klipsch KSW-15 for the sub. But I think a good front would be better with music.
All help is welcome!!

Thanks,

Steve

If you have a lot of room, Klipsch Corwalls will do. The new versions are out of your range. The older models are very nice and come in at $950 - $1250.

If you have limited room, then the Klipsch towers will work. RF-7s will blow your budget. F-3s are great. They extend down quite far.

If you don't mid a smaller stature - and your sub can handle the <50hz - then Heresy II kick butt.

Off course you could go for La Scallas. ;D A used pair are right in your price range and they will scream! (Mine do and they're 1971 vintage.) They are large.

.02

[venturesteve]

I have it down to the Polk Rti 9a and the Axiom M80 V3. But I have not listened to either!! Anyone out there can comment on these two??

Thanks,

Steve

[villock]

Mar 13, 2012 10:15:13 GMT -5 venturesteve said:

I have it down to the Polk Rti 9a and the Axiom M80 V3. But I have not listened to either!! Anyone out there can comment on these two??

Thanks,

Steve

I can't speak for the Axioms but before my current speakers, I had the RTi12s (still have them) which are basically the 9s with a redesigned cabinet. They were excellent for HT, but I think for music you could do better, especially with your amp. My first amp was a LPA-1 and it sounded good, but once I stepped up to my XPA-2, they really came alive. But I was never truly happy with them for 2 channel. And if you have read up on them, they do require gobs of power to bring out the best in them.

[cgolf]

Mar 13, 2012 10:15:13 GMT -5 venturesteve said:

I have it down to the Polk Rti 9a and the Axiom M80 V3. But I have not listened to either!! Anyone out there can comment on these two??

Thanks,

Steve

I've got the M80 v3 and they are great for movies & HT as would be expected. I think they are very good for music also but I have set up a vintage 2 channel setup for music so mine get very little use for music any more. I'm playing music through a Marantz 2265B & a pair of AR2x speakers. Sweeeeet!!! ;D

Have never heard the Polks so can't comment on those.

[Deleted]

I have not heard these speakers, but all who have raved about them - GoldenEar Technology: GoldenEar.com The Triton 2 Towers are $1499 ea. and the Triton 3s are $999 ea. Look like *killer* speakers. And Sandy does have quite a reputation in the industry.

And ya don't need a subwoofer with these towers, they're built-in - w00t!!

www.goldenear.com/index.php/products/triton-towers

-RW-

[villock]

If I was looking to get new speakers, Aperion www.aperionaudio.com/home.aspx have always intrigued me. I have read good things about these and they get good reviews. I also like their business model. They have a 30 day in home trial where Aperion pays shipping both ways, full price trade up program in the 1st year, and a 10 year warranty. Plus they look really nice also. The only thing is they are not full range like you are looking for so you would need a sub for the low end. And their prices are very reasonable. You could get the Verus Forte's brand new for about 1,100. They also have open box Forte's for 463.00 each.

[moookie1051]

If you can do a local pickup (Maryland), these will blow away all the other suggestions , albeit at $1600.

philharmonicaudio.com/philharmonic1.html



The Philharmonic 1 is the least expensive entry in our speaker line, but no corners have been cut in crossover design or driver selection. It is priced at $1,600 a pair.

High frequencies are produced by the excellent Fountek Neo3 ribbon tweeter.

The midrange driver is the highly regarded BG Neo8 planar. Its dipole design is perfectly suited for the open-back configuration used in all of our speakers. Its narrow width provides superior horizontal dispersion for precise imaging and even frequency response in the listening room.

The SB Acoustics eight-inch woofer extends response to 32 Hz in a heavily braced transmission line cabinet.

The open-back upper cabinet may be tuned to suit the needs and tastes of the user by varying the amount of acoustic fill in the cabinet chamber. The two cabinets are isolated by a 1.25” pad of vibration-absorbent material.

The carefully optimized 18-element crossover achieves nearly perfect 4th order acoustic slopes and remarkably flat frequency response across the audio spectrum.

The Philharmonic 1 is supplied with a full set of grills for the woofer, midrange and tweeter, and the back of the upper cabinet. Cabinet finish is limited to satin black. Email [e-mail] to discuss.



Specifications



Drivers

SB Acoustics 23NRXS45-8 woofer, BG Neo8 planar midrange, Fountek Neo3 ribbon tweeter



Response

32Hz – 20kHz (+/- 2 dB)



Sensitivity

87.5 db (dB/2.83v/1M)



Box Alignment

Mass-loaded transmission line



Dimensions

41.5” H x 11.5” W x 21” D

[caliberconst]

Mar 13, 2012 10:15:13 GMT -5 venturesteve said:

I have it down to the Polk Rti 9a and the Axiom M80 V3. But I have not listened to either!! Anyone out there can comment on these two??

Thanks,

Steve

You should definitely listen for your self, as that is the only way to really know which of these is better. I will say I have spent some time with both sets and FOR ME there is no question I would go with the Axioms, they are in another league IMHO, but those are my ears, your's might tell you otherwise. FWIW I feel the M80's are among some of the best you will find in the price range for new speakers.

[selkec]

Mar 13, 2012 20:34:41 GMT -5 caliberconst said:

Mar 13, 2012 10:15:13 GMT -5 venturesteve said:

I have it down to the Polk Rti 9a and the Axiom M80 V3. But I have not listened to either!! Anyone out there can comment on these two??

Thanks,

Steve

You should definitely listen for your self, as that is the only way to really know which of these is better. I will say I have spent some time with both sets and FOR ME there is no question I would go with the Axioms, they are in another league IMHO, but those are my ears, your's might tell you otherwise. FWIW I feel the M80's are among some of the best you will find in the price range for new speakers.

What did you find better with the Axioms? How are they in the bass department. What was the main difference. I have the polks we speak of but have looked at the axioms for a long time now

[stiehl11]

Mar 13, 2012 10:15:13 GMT -5 venturesteve said:

I have it down to the Polk Rti 9a and the Axiom M80 V3. But I have not listened to either!! Anyone out there can comment on these two??

Thanks,

Steve

Wow! Better those are better than the Phase Techs without even listening to them? Where's the icon for blown mind

[RightinLA]

Mar 13, 2012 10:35:48 GMT -5 villock said:

Mar 13, 2012 10:15:13 GMT -5 venturesteve said:

I have it down to the Polk Rti 9a and the Axiom M80 V3. But I have not listened to either!! Anyone out there can comment on these two??

Thanks,

Steve

I can't speak for the Axioms but before my current speakers, I had the RTi12s (still have them) which are basically the 9s with a redesigned cabinet. They were excellent for HT, but I think for music you could do better, especially with your amp. My first amp was a LPA-1 and it sounded good, but once I stepped up to my XPA-2, they really came alive. But I was never truly happy with them for 2 channel. And if you have read up on them, they do require gobs of power to bring out the best in them.

I agree that the RTi12's or RTiA9's love power. I use the UPA-1's to power my RTi12's and I love the result.
I do like those speakers for two channel as well as HT.

There are so many variables with respect to speakers. While listening to them is most advantageous, doing so in a show room will likely yield different results from what you will hear at your home. Please take that into consideration.

Good luck with your search.

[garbulky]

Venture steve: I have not heard the other set but I do have the axiom m80 v2. I LOVE them. They are driven easily by a UPA-2. Their bass is certainly not lacking and goes deep with power. They are branded as HT speakers (which they certainly are) but they are even more enjoyable on music for me. Classical music sounds great as does pretty much all genres. HOWEVER, feed it something with poor dynamic range (compressed sound) and the sound is just awful. This speaker is meant to be lively and dynamic. Try watching "the voice" to see what I mean about awful compression.
Anyway, they have lots of detail and there is depth in them. They are high-end enough for electronics to make a difference. I can easily tell the difference between CD's and mp3's. And I have yet to make them distort or sound strained.

The soundstage is there and on the XDA-1 it feels very wide with a decent amount of depth. The voices hover in the air in my living room and I can see behind the voice (hard to describe) either to another instrument or just plain space. People say they are foward, but I found them lively would be a more accurate description. I couldn't say they are foward because of the depth info it is able to portray that seem to go behind my wall somehow.
They also have lots and lots of dynamic range. You will NEVER complain about that or power.

Place stuff in the way of the speakers and it messes up the accuracy of the soundstage, so keep that in mind. It's very subtle and is only noticeable on higher end electronics.

Cons for the v2's: I have noticed that the better the electronics the tougher they are to place perfectly. They do better away from walls by at least a foot. No port chuffing noise present. Their off-axis listening COULD USE SOME improvement but the sweet spot is lovely though. The off-axis (away from the sweet spot) difference is noticeable though. Maybe it's my placement, maybe it's these speakers. The phantom Center in stereo music is rock solid as long as you are sitting in the center. Put them far apart and it will float solid in the very middle of the room. They are very sensitive to toe-in and takes time to get them set up at just the right toe in angle. They will sound great regardless but find that right placement and they sound really nice. It's almost like it snaps into place. Their frequency response is actually better than they qouted at +/-3db. If you look at their FR graph you will see the majority of the frequency range is actually much better.

I would recommend at least a small to medium size living room to really enjoy them.
Smaller than that, they might not sound very nice. The v3's tweeter has been improved and they say this has improved the off-axis listening. Also, though they are rated at high power, they sound really nice at soft volumes. Anyway, there are likely better speakers at higher prices but I doubt you will be dissapointed. I've heard one person that has the emotiva speakers and they feel that the emotiva's actually outperformed the v2 significantly. I haven't been able to hear the two to confirm that it was indeed the speakers or whether the axioms were placed correctly.

Also a 4 ohm capable amp is a MUST. If you buy an emotiva x-series that is not an XPA-1, make sure you mention in the comments in the order that you are buying an axiom M80 V3 and to do what is necessary to make sure the amp is compatible. The U-series do not seem to have this issue.
But it's great to hear a speakers that does so many things right. Whether it's listening to a movie or critically listening to some music.
I auditioned some polks and Klipsch floorstanders at Best Buy in a carpetted room and they couldn't compare or come close. Then they turned on a Klipsch sub and it was still no contest. But they were the cheaper polks and Klipsch that I heard not their more expensive models.
BTW, all the other choices mentioned here are also great products.

[garbulky]

And those philharmonics look so good.

[knucklehead]

Mar 3, 2012 21:49:48 GMT -5 venturesteve said:

Does the UPA-7 have enough power to drive the ERT 8,3's??

I've owned two different pairs of 8.3s now and driven both sets with a UPA-7 I owned for 3 years - which has been sold and replaced by an XPA-2 and XPA-5. A move that I now question. I suppose it depends on how you use your speakers. If you like it real loud the UPA-7 might come up short. I never found the UPA-7 lacking power with any of the speakers I've owned which is why I question myself for selling the UPA-7. It was more than capable of driving the 8.3s to very high SPL without clipping. Louder than anyone should listen IMO. As for my opinion on the 8.3s? Well - I did buy another set. I think they really rock.

[cgolf]

Just to add a comment or two to garbulky's comments. Some people talk about Axioms being bright and that the double tweeters defeat each other or cause problems.

I don't think they are bright at all. They are crisp and detailed and if your room isn't set up properly, they may be a bit forward or bright (whatever that means ;D) as some say. I have listened to them for hours on end with both movies and music and have never had any issues with fatigue. As garbulky said, they will produce whatever is on the source material-dull, bright, good, bad, whatever!!

I'm not an engineer so I can't comment technically on the double tweeter issue. All I know is that Axiom has been around for 30+ years and have never had any issues that I'm aware of because of that. It's no different than double mids or bass. It handles more power efficiently and these puppies can get loud with zero distortion!!

[mrmeng430]

My 2 cents...

I use both Axiom M80s and ERT-8.3, they stand side by side in my living room. The Axioms are not as bright now since I moved them toe-out and the center imaging is very good for stereo listening. I can't decide which of the 2 brands are better, but with proper speaker positioning using XLO/Reference Test & Burn In CD, the M80s are great now. I use M80s for movies, ERT-8.3 for music. I guess it boils down to taste.

[roadrunner]

Mar 14, 2012 12:49:57 GMT -5 mrmeng430 said:

My 2 cents...

I use both Axiom M80s and ERT-8.3, they stand side by side in my living room. The Axioms are not as bright now since I moved them toe-out and the center imaging is very good for stereo listening. I can't decide which of the 2 brands are better, but with proper speaker positioning using XLO/Reference Test & Burn In CD, the M80s are great now. I use M80s for movies, ERT-8.3 for music. I guess it boils down to taste.

Your use of the Axiom M80s and the Emotiva ERT-8.3 are spot on based on my listening experience. The ERT-8.3s excel at reproducing "life-like" sound for music. With you combination of speakers you are using each pair for its single best usage. I imagine the XLO/Reference Recordings Test and Burn-in CD proved invaluable in setting up Axioms... which came be challenging to properly place them.

If you have a picture showing the M80 and ERT-8.3 side by side it would be interesting to see your placement. How large is your listening room?

[cgolf]

Mar 14, 2012 13:26:34 GMT -5 roadrunner said:

Mar 14, 2012 12:49:57 GMT -5 mrmeng430 said:

My 2 cents...

I use both Axiom M80s and ERT-8.3, they stand side by side in my living room. The Axioms are not as bright now since I moved them toe-out and the center imaging is very good for stereo listening. I can't decide which of the 2 brands are better, but with proper speaker positioning using XLO/Reference Test & Burn In CD, the M80s are great now. I use M80s for movies, ERT-8.3 for music. I guess it boils down to taste.

Your use of the Axiom M80s and the Emotiva ERT-8.3 are spot on based on my listening experience. The ERT-8.3s excel at reproducing "life-like" sound for music. With you combination of speakers you are using each pair for its single best usage. I imagine the XLO/Reference Recordings Test and Burn-in CD proved invaluable in setting up Axioms... which came be challenging to properly place them.

If you have a picture showing the M80 and ERT-8.3 side by side it would be interesting to see your placement. How large is your listening room?

I agree. Pictures would be nice. I have my 80's toed in just a hair but have tried them at all different angles. They are very sensitive.

[moookie1051]

For all you Axiom fans, from your friends over at AVS:

Biggest myths in audio that tick you off/General things in audio that tick you off.

Axioms pseudo science approach to speaker design.

- No need for proper cabinet bracing

- Comb filtering is a good thing

- Don't need high quality Xover components

- midrange break up is ok (M60)

- off axis response isn't important (VP150)

- Axiom only knows how to perform a DBT

- A $1500 speaker is as good as it gets any thing more is just similarily good.

[garbulky]

Mar 14, 2012 14:59:48 GMT -5 moookie1051 said:

For all you Axiom fans, from your friends over at AVS:

Biggest myths in audio that tick you off/General things in audio that tick you off.

Axioms pseudo science approach to speaker design.

- No need for proper cabinet bracing

- Comb filtering is a good thing

- Don't need high quality Xover components

- midrange break up is ok (M60)

- off axis response isn't important (VP150)

- Axiom only knows how to perform a DBT

- A $1500 speaker is as good as it gets any thing more is just similarily good.

Have you actually listened to a recent V2 or v3 m80 pair in your own house properly setup? Something tells me no.

Note their flagship speakers are $1440 a pair shipped free. I bought them at 1380 brand new. Their b-stock is cheaper. The pair weighs 113.6 pounds PLUS packaging weight put together. Their warranty is three years WITH free shipping back to you. Every time a speaker is sent in, they would have to eat the cost of that shipping. They offer 30 days in home trial. Send it back unhappy and this adds to the cost.

Then despite their most expensive design being 1440, they still provide really good CS. I called them a few weeks back on a saturday. I found out they were actually open on saturdays but not in the morning. So I just hung up. I did not even leave a message.
Fifteen minutes past their opening time, one of their main audio engineer guys calls me back asking me if I had a question or if he could help in any way (and yes they sure could). Very friendly, knowledgeable and wasn't rushed at all.

I damaged a tweeter due to what honestly wasn't their fault. They replaced it free of charge and paid for the return shipping and gave me a discount on the shipping label to them.

You have to include all that in the pricing. Then looking at the pricing, let's talk about quality components. Nothing wrong with GREAT components. I highly doubt the ones they use are garbage though if they sound this good. There's not a whole lot of quality components you can stick in at that price if you are expecting to make comparable profit to other companies. If they were to bust often, I would have likely noticed it and their warranties would not be 3 years with free return shipping nor would they offer a 30 day in home trial.

As for bracing, I haven't heard any rattling, chuffing, boomy, boxy, or resonating sounds. I'm not a DIY guy or an electrical man but for me that's what I would like to see in a well-built speaker.

The comb filtering bit being a good thing (which I have NO clue about) seems to have been taken a bit out of context.
www.axiomaudio.com/blog/tag/comb-filter/

None of the speakers you've mentioned are the ones we are talking about: the m80's. Note that the v3 has had improvements made to it.

It appears your issue is more about certain principles and statements made by the company that may come off as arrogant or obnoxious especially the "we're the best" statement. Axiom stresses that they try to use science and concentrate on audible differences. Whether they do or not, I have no idea.

There are better designs and things with components usually higher priced. Im interested in the sound quality and for me, they sound very nice.
Off axis response is important. That sounds like they were trying to pad a shortcoming of the VP150 (at that current version). Their v3 system is supposed to have better off-axis response.
BUT, the m80 v2's off center response, as I mentioned previously isn't fantastic. It's not bad or irritating but it's noticeable. It's the one noticeable imperfection to my ears. Speaker toe in AND distance between the speakers seemed to make the most improvement here as well.

Off topic to your post, as cgolf mentioned, the tweeters aren't harsh or "bright" to my ears. I did toe it in too much once and it was too much. Properly placed, they are lively in a good way and sound nice. IMO, they are one of the best parts of the system.